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Re: NEW KING OLIVER REISSUE

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  • stewmclean
    Hi Sue,I would agree with you and wait and Hear the CD first.You can get some sound samples at http://www.archeophone.com/product_info.php?products_id=85 The
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 5, 2006
      Hi Sue,I would agree with you and wait and Hear the CD
      first.You can get some sound samples at
      http://www.archeophone.com/product_info.php?products_id=85

      The Windows Media player would be the better choice over the Real
      Audio.
      As for the CD it's self, there always improving the sound on them.
      At one time they would just sample the the 78 at the standard
      44.100/16bit.Now there using at the least the 96k/24bit and then
      mastering the CD at the standard 44.100/16bit.
      From the sample I heard,I will order the CD.
      Stewart
      ------------------------------------------------------------------
      --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, loerchen2@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > I wouldn't rush to criticize this before you've heard it -- a couple
      of my
      > musician friends (who are also record collectors) heard it pre-
      release and say
      > that it is excellent, and is indeed better than the Retrieval set in
      some
      > aspects....
      >
      > Sue
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • john schott
      As others have noted, $30 is a bunch of money for music you ve probably already purchased at least twice, even if it is among the greatest music. Part of me
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 5, 2006
        As others have noted, $30 is a bunch of money for music you've probably
        already purchased at least twice, even if it is among the greatest music.
        Part of me feels, like some software upgrades, I'll just wait until the
        inevitable upgrade AFTER this one, when they'll be able to give me the smell
        in the room that day back in 1923, or individual sliders for each
        instrument, so that I can do my own mix.
        Archeophone is my current favorite record company (well, let's say it's
        a tie for 1st with Old Hat, Revenent, and Jazz Oracle), and if they say
        something is cool, I'm well disposed to believe them. But since, I'm
        guessing, 75% of the people their email or website reaches already have the
        J.R.T. Davies set, I sort of wish they'd meet that comparison head on, and
        really make a case for the new one.
        If anyone can help me decide if I MUST have the new set, or if that
        money would be better spent on either 1) other Archeophone reissues, 2)
        Harlem Hamfats Vols. 2-5 on Document, or 3) my son's education, I'd be most
        grateful.

        John






        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "stewmclean" <stewmclean@...>
        To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 1:03 PM
        Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: NEW KING OLIVER REISSUE


        > Hi Sue,I would agree with you and wait and Hear the CD
        > first.You can get some sound samples at
        > http://www.archeophone.com/product_info.php?products_id=85
        >
        > The Windows Media player would be the better choice over the Real
        > Audio.
        > As for the CD it's self, there always improving the sound on them.
        > At one time they would just sample the the 78 at the standard
        > 44.100/16bit.Now there using at the least the 96k/24bit and then
        > mastering the CD at the standard 44.100/16bit.
        > From the sample I heard,I will order the CD.
        > Stewart
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------
        > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, loerchen2@... wrote:
        >>
        >>
        >> I wouldn't rush to criticize this before you've heard it -- a couple
        > of my
        >> musician friends (who are also record collectors) heard it pre-
        > release and say
        >> that it is excellent, and is indeed better than the Retrieval set in
        > some
        >> aspects....
        >>
        >> Sue
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date: 11/4/2006
        > 5:30 PM
        >
        >
      • Michael Rader
        First remastering in decades to me suggests lacking awareness of the Retrieval set. Even so, I would wait until passing judgement over Archeophone, or
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 5, 2006
          "First remastering in decades" to me suggests lacking awareness of the Retrieval set.

          Even so, I would wait until passing judgement over Archeophone, or whoever it was who is producing this set (I think strictly speaking it is a separate endeavour). The blurb insinuates that the set uses a freshly assembled set of originals and that half the trick was actually playing them properly. The engineer, Doug Benson, did good work on the Hit of the Week recordings (at least Vol. 1, I don't have vol. 2) and does respect the original sound of the 78s.

          I'm not sure what kind of sources were available to John RT Davies for the Retrievals and how extensive the search for better copies was. In fact I seem to recall someone telling me that John had to resort to tape dubs made in the 1950s in some cases, since the original 78s were no longer in as good condition. David French sent me a cassette dub of one of the OKehs which sounded very good and fresh, suggesting that there would have been room for improvement, had John RT have had access to better condition originals. Archeophone highlights the *consistency* of the new set and claims that even the intro to "Zulu's Ball" sounds good .- unfortunately they don't include it in the sample.

          Archeophones are usually very lovingly produced - some of their early productions were however marred by digital artifacts. These have gradually been replaced with upgraded audio quality, usually adding tracks, and improved booklets. The "year" series are particularly attractive, having information both on the music and the social background.

          I would be interested to hear opinions from people who have heard both sets - even if $30 isn't quite peanuts, it would be worth the expenditure to hear really improved versions of these classics. Oh, and even then the Retrieval wouldn't quite be redundant since it has the Oliver/Morton duos and the Oliver accompaniments to Butterbeans and Susie.

          Michael Rader
          >
          >
          > I baulk at the blurb --'first remastering for decades'
          >
          > The JRT Retrieval of 1995 was a profound revelation. Can this be bettered ?
          >
          > What source used for remastering ?
          >
          > What is non-invasive ?
          > .
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >


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        • Michael Rader
          Discussions on the Red Hot Jazz list do not go unnoticed - little wonder now that we re approaching the 400 subscriber mark. As a result of the debate on the
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 6, 2006
            Discussions on the "Red Hot Jazz" list do not go unnoticed - little wonder now that we're approaching the 400 subscriber mark. As a result of the debate on the new King Oliver set on Archeophone, I received an e-mail from Richard Martin, one of Archeophone's owners/producers. Richard attached an e-mail from engineer Doug Benson which throws light on the new production and confirms many things I speculated on in my own e-mail on the subject:


            " I'm not surprised that some collectors might have a somewhat 'glandular'
            reaction to the Oliver advertising-- it would be easy to assume that our
            claims are some kind of attack on the integrity or talent of John R. T. Davies.
            In actuality, John was a friend of mine, and the whole inspiration for this
            reissue came from an email that he sent to me in 2002. The quote below
            is taken from that email, and is in fact also included in my booklet notes for the project.

            <<In 2002 the late John R. T. Davies wrote to me: "I understand your
            disenchantment with reissues of the Oliver Creole Band. When I did them last
            time I took a different approach... rather than kill the surface or accent
            the two cornets, I attempted to rebuild the BAND. They're not beautiful (I
            didn't have access to originals of many) but at time of writing, that set is
            the best we have." I believe that this reissue approaches what John might
            have created with access to improved source material, and it would not exist
            without his guidance and encouragement.>>"

            As I said in my e-mail, the new release has gone back to source and uses fresh remasters of all the recordings.

            Doug Benson incidentally dedicated Volume 1 of the Hit of the Week recordings on Archeophone to the memory of John RT Davies.

            Michael Rader
            Karlsruhe,
            Germany



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          • davidsager1958
            I think I can clear up the confusion: This is in fact the first time in decades that all 37 titles by the Oliver 1923 band have been newly transferred and
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 6, 2006
              I think I can clear up the confusion:

              This is in fact the first time in decades that all 37 titles by the
              Oliver 1923 band have been newly transferred and remastered. The
              Retrieval set used a few dubbed titles plus some transfers that Mr.
              Davies did back in the 50s.

              Please explore the Archeophone site a little further and read the
              comments from Dan Morgenstern, George Avakian and others AND even
              better -- listen to the examples provided.

              Best

              David Sager


              -- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Hugh Crozier <jellyrollstomp@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > I share this opinion. I doubt if the JRT issue can be improved.
              >
              > Hugh
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message ----
              > From: David Brown <johnhaleysims@...>
              > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, 5 November, 2006 9:36:39 AM
              > Subject: RE: [RedHotJazz] NEW KING OLIVER REISSUE
              >
              > I baulk at the blurb --'first remastering for decades'
              >
              > The JRT Retrieval of 1995 was a profound revelation. Can this be
              bettered ?
              >
              > What source used for remastering ?
              >
              > What is non-invasive ?
              > .
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Send instant messages to your online friends
              http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • john schott
              Thanks for posting this - I imagine it s what many of us ASSUMED, on some level, but I appreciate it. ... From: Michael Rader To:
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 6, 2006
                Thanks for posting this - I imagine it's what many of us ASSUMED, on some
                level, but I appreciate it.

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Michael Rader" <Rader.Michael@...>
                To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 1:39 PM
                Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] NEW KING OLIVER REISSUE


                > Discussions on the "Red Hot Jazz" list do not go unnoticed - little wonder
                > now that we're approaching the 400 subscriber mark. As a result of the
                > debate on the new King Oliver set on Archeophone, I received an e-mail
                > from Richard Martin, one of Archeophone's owners/producers. Richard
                > attached an e-mail from engineer Doug Benson which throws light on the new
                > production and confirms many things I speculated on in my own e-mail on
                > the subject:
                >
                >
                > " I'm not surprised that some collectors might have a somewhat 'glandular'
                > reaction to the Oliver advertising-- it would be easy to assume that our
                > claims are some kind of attack on the integrity or talent of John R. T.
                > Davies.
                > In actuality, John was a friend of mine, and the whole inspiration for
                > this
                > reissue came from an email that he sent to me in 2002. The quote below
                > is taken from that email, and is in fact also included in my booklet notes
                > for the project.
                >
                > <<In 2002 the late John R. T. Davies wrote to me: "I understand your
                > disenchantment with reissues of the Oliver Creole Band. When I did them
                > last
                > time I took a different approach... rather than kill the surface or accent
                > the two cornets, I attempted to rebuild the BAND. They're not beautiful (I
                > didn't have access to originals of many) but at time of writing, that set
                > is
                > the best we have." I believe that this reissue approaches what John might
                > have created with access to improved source material, and it would not
                > exist
                > without his guidance and encouragement.>>"
                >
                > As I said in my e-mail, the new release has gone back to source and uses
                > fresh remasters of all the recordings.
                >
                > Doug Benson incidentally dedicated Volume 1 of the Hit of the Week
                > recordings on Archeophone to the memory of John RT Davies.
                >
                > Michael Rader
                > Karlsruhe,
                > Germany
              • loerchen2@aol.com
                Well, I just got my copy today (thanks, David!) and it is everything I hoped it would be. I m amazed at the clarity and balance of the music. Best of all,
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 6, 2006
                  Well, I just got my copy today (thanks, David!) and it is everything I hoped
                  it would be. I'm amazed at the clarity and balance of the music. Best of
                  all, I just discovered some Johnny Dodds riffs that I've never heard before,
                  and the liner notes are excellent. This is a keeper!

                  Sue



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • spacelights
                  In my opinion, the word remastered fosters confusion as well... If an album or collection has been remastered, this means the very same
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 6, 2006
                    In my opinion, the word "remastered" fosters confusion as well... If
                    an album or collection has been remastered, this means the very same
                    source--collectively--was mastered once before. If these are indeed
                    new transfers, then the disc is newly mastered, not remastered.

                    --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "davidsager1958"
                    <davidsager1958@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I think I can clear up the confusion:
                    >
                    > This is in fact the first time in decades that all 37 titles by the
                    > Oliver 1923 band have been newly transferred and remastered. The
                    > Retrieval set used a few dubbed titles plus some transfers that Mr.
                    > Davies did back in the 50s.
                  • Michael Rader
                    David, Could you please provide suggestions *which* tracks are best to sample the improvement. As I ve said before, most computers don t provide really good
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 6, 2006
                      David,

                      Could you please provide suggestions *which* tracks are best to sample the improvement. As I've said before, most computers don't provide really good listening experience and a comparison (e.g. with the Retrieval) would be most revealing if it were possible to go directly to those tracks which actually come from originals rather than the 1950s dubs used for the Retrieval.

                      If you've been collecting for any length of time, you grow wary of claims made for reissues.

                      Michael Rader

                      Karlsruhe, Germany

                      >
                      > Please explore the Archeophone site a little further and read the
                      > comments from Dan Morgenstern, George Avakian and others AND even
                      > better -- listen to the examples provided.
                      >
                      > Best
                      >
                      > David Sager

                      _______________________________________________________________________
                      Viren-Scan für Ihren PC! Jetzt für jeden. Sofort, online und kostenlos.
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                    • David Brown
                      For instance. There is only one copy of Gennett 5275 ( Workingman/Zulus ) extant. Who owns this and was it made available for re-mastering or even
                      Message 10 of 25 , Nov 6, 2006
                        For instance. There is only one copy of Gennett 5275 ( Workingman/Zulus )
                        extant.

                        Who owns this and was it made available for re-mastering or even 'mastering'
                        ?


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • davidsager1958
                        Hi Michael The samples, I think, are all representative and consistent, so I don t think that any one particular is better than another. Do, however, sample
                        Message 11 of 25 , Nov 7, 2006
                          Hi Michael

                          The samples, I think, are all representative and consistent, so I
                          don't think that any one particular is better than another.

                          Do, however, sample "Krooked Blues" -- Joe Oliver's blues style is so
                          very evident on this one as he is rather exposed.

                          Perhaps if you play a bit of the Retrieval on your computer speakers
                          and then try a few samples, then you can get an idea...or perhaps
                          rote your computer through your stereo system...

                          David


                          RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > David,
                          >
                          > Could you please provide suggestions *which* tracks are best to
                          sample the improvement. As I've said before, most computers don't
                          provide really good listening experience and a comparison (e.g. with
                          the Retrieval) would be most revealing if it were possible to go
                          directly to those tracks which actually come from originals rather
                          than the 1950s dubs used for the Retrieval.
                          >
                          > If you've been collecting for any length of time, you grow wary of
                          claims made for reissues.
                          >
                          > Michael Rader
                          >
                          > Karlsruhe, Germany
                          >
                          > >
                          > > Please explore the Archeophone site a little further and read the
                          > > comments from Dan Morgenstern, George Avakian and others AND even
                          > > better -- listen to the examples provided.
                          > >
                          > > Best
                          > >
                          > > David Sager
                          >
                          >
                          ______________________________________________________________________
                          _
                          > Viren-Scan für Ihren PC! Jetzt für jeden. Sofort, online und
                          kostenlos.
                          > Gleich testen! http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/freescan/?mc=022222
                          >
                        • davidsager1958
                          OKeh, I re-read your question and have a somewhat better answer... Krooked Blues as it turns out was one of the dubs that John R. T. had used on the
                          Message 12 of 25 , Nov 7, 2006
                            OKeh, I re-read your question and have a somewhat better answer...

                            "Krooked Blues" as it turns out was one of the dubs that John R. T.
                            had used on the Retireval/King Jazz set. Therefore "Alligator Hop"
                            was from a dub as well.

                            I'll try and find out which others came from dubbed sources.



                            In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > David,
                            >
                            > Could you please provide suggestions *which* tracks are best to
                            sample the improvement. As I've said before, most computers don't
                            provide really good listening experience and a comparison (e.g. with
                            the Retrieval) would be most revealing if it were possible to go
                            directly to those tracks which actually come from originals rather
                            than the 1950s dubs used for the Retrieval.
                            >
                            > If you've been collecting for any length of time, you grow wary of
                            claims made for reissues.
                            >
                            > Michael Rader
                            >
                            > Karlsruhe, Germany
                            >
                            > >
                            > > Please explore the Archeophone site a little further and read the
                            > > comments from Dan Morgenstern, George Avakian and others AND even
                            > > better -- listen to the examples provided.
                            > >
                            > > Best
                            > >
                            > > David Sager
                            >
                            >
                            ______________________________________________________________________
                            _
                            > Viren-Scan für Ihren PC! Jetzt für jeden. Sofort, online und
                            kostenlos.
                            > Gleich testen! http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/freescan/?mc=022222
                            >
                          • Patrice Champarou
                            ... From: davidsager1958 To: Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 3:26 PM Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: NEW
                            Message 13 of 25 , Nov 7, 2006
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "davidsager1958" <davidsager1958@...>
                              To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 3:26 PM
                              Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: NEW KING OLIVER REISSUE


                              > OKeh, I re-read your question and have a somewhat better answer...

                              ... but the previous one hasn't arrived yet! ;-(

                              I'm sorry, David, the Yahoogroup server has strange delays, I cannot even
                              remove the moderation feature because it hasn't shown your name yet!

                              Patrice (creeping in the RHJ basement)
                            • David Brown
                              Having further investigated the Archeophone site I find my earlier question answered and that the copy of Gennett 5275 was used. However, the link in the text
                              Message 14 of 25 , Nov 7, 2006
                                Having further investigated the Archeophone site I find my earlier question
                                answered and that the copy of Gennett 5275 was used.

                                However, the link in the text referring to Gennett 5275 plays the Okeh '
                                Working Man ' --- confusing.

                                The track list further down does indeed play the Gennett.

                                The transcriptions cited as 'dubs' on the Retrieval -- ' Krooked' and
                                'Alligator' -- even if so, are among the best on that issue and I cannot
                                hear any improvement on the limited clip available from Archeophone.

                                But PC soundstream never is a fair test but generally the Archeophone sound
                                seems good but then so is the Retrieval.




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • stewmclean
                                Many thanks for the inf. Sue,sounds like it s worth while adding the set to the collcetion.Just to hear anything new by Johnny Dodds would make it money well
                                Message 15 of 25 , Nov 8, 2006
                                  Many thanks for the inf. Sue,sounds like it's worth while
                                  adding the set to the collcetion.Just to hear anything new by Johnny
                                  Dodds would make it money well spent.
                                  Stewart
                                  --------------------------------------------------------
                                  --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, loerchen2@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Well, I just got my copy today (thanks, David!) and it is
                                  everything I hoped
                                  > it would be. I'm amazed at the clarity and balance of the
                                  music. Best of
                                  > all, I just discovered some Johnny Dodds riffs that I've never
                                  heard before,
                                  > and the liner notes are excellent. This is a keeper!
                                  >
                                  > Sue
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • David Brown
                                  Sue What side are the newly discovered Dodds riffs on ? I cannot find timings for the Archeophone, can anybody oblige ? I m interested in what pitch
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Nov 8, 2006
                                    Sue

                                    What side are the newly discovered Dodds riffs on ?

                                    I cannot find timings for the Archeophone, can anybody oblige ?

                                    I'm interested in what pitch 'corrections' have been made v.v. the
                                    Retrieval.

                                    Dave




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Hugh Crozier
                                    Sorry - I ve missed something here. What is this about newly discovered Dodds riffs? Being a huge fan I would love to hear them. Hugh ... From: David Brown
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Nov 9, 2006
                                      Sorry - I've missed something here. What is this about newly discovered Dodds riffs? Being a huge fan I would love to hear them.

                                      Hugh


                                      ----- Original Message ----
                                      From: David Brown <johnhaleysims@...>
                                      To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Thursday, 9 November, 2006 7:51:31 AM
                                      Subject: RE: [RedHotJazz] Re: NEW KING OLIVER REISSUE

                                      Sue

                                      What side are the newly discovered Dodds riffs on ?

                                      I cannot find timings for the Archeophone, can anybody oblige ?

                                      I'm interested in what pitch 'corrections' have been made v.v. the
                                      Retrieval.

                                      Dave

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                      Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • David Brown
                                      David implied that the King Jazz and Retrieval sets are synonymous. This never was so and I ve just relistened. The Retrieval is far far superior. More body,
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Nov 9, 2006
                                        David implied that the King Jazz and Retrieval sets are synonymous. This
                                        never was so and I've just relistened. The Retrieval is far far superior.
                                        More body, resonance, space, detail and dynamics, albeit at the acceptable
                                        cost of more surface.

                                        If indeed these are from the same JRT tape --- and they certainly sound as
                                        if from the same copies -- and assuming that no further filtering
                                        /equalising etc, digital or otherwise, was imposed by King Jazz -- ( and I
                                        suspect it was ) --then this indicates just how influential the actual
                                        digitalising process is.


                                        Dave




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • spacelights
                                        ... superior. ... acceptable ... sound as ... and I ... The implication perhaps wasn t intentional, but the use of the singular word set could cause someone
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Nov 10, 2006
                                          --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "David Brown" <johnhaleysims@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          >
                                          > David implied that the King Jazz and Retrieval sets are synonymous. This
                                          > never was so and I've just relistened. The Retrieval is far far
                                          superior.
                                          > More body, resonance, space, detail and dynamics, albeit at the
                                          acceptable
                                          > cost of more surface.
                                          >
                                          > If indeed these are from the same JRT tape --- and they certainly
                                          sound as
                                          > if from the same copies -- and assuming that no further filtering
                                          > /equalising etc, digital or otherwise, was imposed by King Jazz -- (
                                          and I
                                          > suspect it was ) --then this indicates just how influential the actual
                                          > digitalising process is.

                                          The implication perhaps wasn't intentional, but the use of the
                                          singular word "set" could cause someone to think the two CDs were the
                                          same...

                                          I've noticed a somewhat similar dichotomy between King Jazz and
                                          Retrieval CD issues of Morton's 1923-1924 solos, which I'm guessing
                                          came from identical transfers. King Jazz does have more surface
                                          noise, and the sound varies a bit from track to track. In a few
                                          cases, this may provide a greater opportunity for equalization "to
                                          taste," at the lisener's discretion. I like the character of the
                                          Retrieval sound, which seems more uniform--usually something achieved
                                          through mastering.

                                          King Jazz credits John R.T. for "Transfers," Cesar Garcia for
                                          "Pre-mastering Re-recording," and Digipro for "DAT Mastering."
                                          Retrieval simply credits John R.T. with "Audio Restoration."

                                          John
                                        • davidsager1958
                                          Hello Friends, John R. T. told someone...I cannot recall who it was now, that both King Jazz and Retrieval were from the same tapes. I agree that the
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Nov 10, 2006
                                            Hello Friends,

                                            John R. T. told someone...I cannot recall who it was now, that both
                                            King Jazz and Retrieval were from the same tapes. I agree that the
                                            Retrieval set sounds better than the King Jazz.

                                            I'll never forget the one time I visited John and he played me the
                                            tape of his restoration of Oliver's "Mandy Lee Blues" -- it was
                                            thrilling! He was a brilliant man.

                                            David

                                            --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "spacelights" <spacelights@...>
                                            wrote:
                                            >
                                            > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "David Brown" <johnhaleysims@>
                                            > wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > David implied that the King Jazz and Retrieval sets are
                                            synonymous. This
                                            > > never was so and I've just relistened. The Retrieval is far far
                                            > superior.
                                            > > More body, resonance, space, detail and dynamics, albeit at the
                                            > acceptable
                                            > > cost of more surface.
                                            > >
                                            > > If indeed these are from the same JRT tape --- and they certainly
                                            > sound as
                                            > > if from the same copies -- and assuming that no further filtering
                                            > > /equalising etc, digital or otherwise, was imposed by King Jazz --
                                            (
                                            > and I
                                            > > suspect it was ) --then this indicates just how influential the
                                            actual
                                            > > digitalising process is.
                                            >
                                            > The implication perhaps wasn't intentional, but the use of the
                                            > singular word "set" could cause someone to think the two CDs were
                                            the
                                            > same...
                                            >
                                            > I've noticed a somewhat similar dichotomy between King Jazz and
                                            > Retrieval CD issues of Morton's 1923-1924 solos, which I'm guessing
                                            > came from identical transfers. King Jazz does have more surface
                                            > noise, and the sound varies a bit from track to track. In a few
                                            > cases, this may provide a greater opportunity for equalization "to
                                            > taste," at the lisener's discretion. I like the character of the
                                            > Retrieval sound, which seems more uniform--usually something
                                            achieved
                                            > through mastering.
                                            >
                                            > King Jazz credits John R.T. for "Transfers," Cesar Garcia for
                                            > "Pre-mastering Re-recording," and Digipro for "DAT Mastering."
                                            > Retrieval simply credits John R.T. with "Audio Restoration."
                                            >
                                            > John
                                            >
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