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Re: [RedHotJazz] Bert Williams

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  • Patrice Champarou
    ... Most of the 1901 tracks with samples available on this page http://www.archeophone.com/product_info.php?products_id=53 I don t know much about cylinders
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 9, 2006
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      >> The Archeophone reissues seem to have better remastering than what is
      >> available from Document, but I was surprised to hear serious speed
      >> changes
      >> on some tracks... are they just faults in the samples, or does volume 1
      >> (Bert Williams - The Early Years) present the same changes in pitch?
      >
      > Which tracks, Patrice?

      Most of the 1901 tracks with samples available on this page
      http://www.archeophone.com/product_info.php?products_id=53
      I don't know much about cylinders but I suppose they were originally
      recorded at an even speed, so I cannot figure out why they could not be
      played the same way.

      Patrice
    • Howard Rye
      ... These are not in fact cylinders. The 5 cylinders included on ARCH5004 have remarkably good speed stability since many cylinders were not actually recorded
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 12, 2006
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        on 9/10/06 15:15, Patrice Champarou at patrice.champarou@... wrote:

        >>> The Archeophone reissues seem to have better remastering than what is
        >>> available from Document, but I was surprised to hear serious speed
        >>> changes
        >>> on some tracks... are they just faults in the samples, or does volume 1
        >>> (Bert Williams - The Early Years) present the same changes in pitch?
        >>
        >> Which tracks, Patrice?
        >
        > Most of the 1901 tracks with samples available on this page
        > http://www.archeophone.com/product_info.php?products_id=53
        > I don't know much about cylinders but I suppose they were originally
        > recorded at an even speed, so I cannot figure out why they could not be
        > played the same way.

        These are not in fact cylinders. The 5 cylinders included on ARCH5004 have
        remarkably good speed stability since many cylinders were not actually
        recorded at a constant speed, and much more importantly contemporary
        equipment almost never played back at constant speed. Effective dubbing
        requires expensive custom-made equipment, but it has clearly been available
        in this case.

        The speed stability problem is specifically with the Victor (disc) session
        of 11 October 1901. There are many allusions to this in the notes: "The poor
        quality of the recordings that survive, especially with the extraordinary
        amount of wow and flutter inherent in them, suggest [sic] that Victor's
        recording lathe was malfunctioning on October 11, 1901." They speculate that
        the extreme rarity of records from this session may be be because they were
        withdrawn when it was realized how technically poor they were.

        This is a great shame since the affected masters include some of the most
        interesting titles from a jazz and blues standpoint, such as 'Where Was
        Moses When the Lights Went Out' and 'All Going Out And Nothing Coming In'.
        However we are over a century too late to do anything about it and must
        console ourselves with the thought that the miracle is that we have this
        material at all, not that it is defective.

        Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
        howard@...
        Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
      • Patrice Champarou
        I am very grateful to you, Howard, for providing so much information. Patrice (Not cylinders! Now I suppose I should ask 78-L if they know about some efficient
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 12, 2006
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          I am very grateful to you, Howard, for providing so much information.

          Patrice

          (Not cylinders! Now I suppose I should ask 78-L if they know about some
          efficient plugin for automatic pitch correction ;-)

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Howard Rye" <howard@...>
          (...)
          > These are not in fact cylinders. The 5 cylinders included on ARCH5004 have
          > remarkably good speed stability since many cylinders were not actually
          > recorded at a constant speed, and much more importantly contemporary
          > equipment almost never played back at constant speed. Effective dubbing
          > requires expensive custom-made equipment, but it has clearly been
          > available
          > in this case.
          >
          > The speed stability problem is specifically with the Victor (disc) session
          > of 11 October 1901. There are many allusions to this in the notes: "The
          > poor
          > quality of the recordings that survive, especially with the extraordinary
          > amount of wow and flutter inherent in them, suggest [sic] that Victor's
          > recording lathe was malfunctioning on October 11, 1901." They speculate
          > that
          > the extreme rarity of records from this session may be be because they
          > were
          > withdrawn when it was realized how technically poor they were.
          >
          > This is a great shame since the affected masters include some of the most
          > interesting titles from a jazz and blues standpoint, such as 'Where Was
          > Moses When the Lights Went Out' and 'All Going Out And Nothing Coming In'.
          > However we are over a century too late to do anything about it and must
          > console ourselves with the thought that the miracle is that we have this
          > material at all, not that it is defective.
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