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Re: [RedHotJazz] Re: clean sound of 78s

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  • Joel Fritz
    My experience is that a relatively inexpensive sound card works very well for dubbing records to cds. I m using a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, now discontinued,
    Message 1 of 29 , May 19 9:37 AM
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      My experience is that a relatively inexpensive sound card works very
      well for dubbing records to cds. I'm using a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz,
      now discontinued, that I bought several years ago for $40. The signal
      to noise ratio is much greater than 60dB and the distortion is very
      low. A Soundblaster card in the $40 and up range will give comparable
      performance. You can get almost studio quality performance from cards
      in the $100-$200 range. They're mostly designed for project studios.

      There's a freeware program that does comprehensive testing of sound
      cards called Rightmark Audio Analyzer. http://www.rightmark.org/
      It's very simple to use. The only thing you need is a short stereo
      cable to run between the line in and line out jacks on the sound card.

      I've used DC6 for audio restoration. It's not as good as CEDAR but it
      costs $200. It can do a lot of things pretty well. It takes some
      learning but the documentation is very good and has a lot of step by
      step instructions. It was developed by people who were hired to
      digitize cylinder recordings for the Edison Museum. An LP in bad shape
      can take a while to improve. One with a few clicks and pops can take
      not much more time than it takes to listen to it.

      I've done a lot with Paramount recordings from LP and CD reissues and in
      a lot of cases have managed to make them tolerable. My hat is off to
      John RT Davies. His King Oliver Creole Jazz Band remastering makes the
      records sound like reasonable quality electrical 78s. Oliver's tone is
      everything his contemporaries said it was.

      Your friend,
      Barrelhouse Solly I

      It's never too late to do something your parents didn't want you to do.
      When that time comes Barrelhouse Solly will be there for you. He cares.

      Music: http://www.soundclick.com/barrelhousesolly
      Fractious Felines: http://ratemykitten.com/my/?gallery=willie_mctell



      Patrice Champarou wrote:
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Michael Rader" <Rader.Michael@...>
      >
      >
      >> I have read that the quality of the sound card used for digital recording
      >> does make a major difference.
      >>
      >
      > Before some friends suggest that we 'move on' and stay away from technical
      > discussions, I think I should add one (last?) comment because I suppose most
      > jazz fans are tempted to digitize part of their own collections - for those
      > who haven't tried yet.
      > According to my limited experience, adding even a vey cheap and basic
      > soundcard to one's personal computer can be much better than using the
      > integrated sound circuit of the motherboard for recording. You will probably
      > miss the 5+1 or above sound output provided with recent equipment, speakers
      > all over the place (OK, you can still use them for listening if you do
      > enjoy) but you won't get all the artefacts either, plenty of background
      > noise that a single glance at the levels in the recording interface might
      > reveal.
      >
      > My fairly recent AC'97 Realtek thinggy shows complete 'silence' as loud as
      > -48 dB (left) and -42 dB (right), while it is close to nothing from a simple
      > old 128 Soundblaster inserted into a PCI slot, with much more visible
      > dynamics. Third machine on which I've noticed this but maybe I'm unlucky.
      >
      > I do not mean it is close to professional quality, but transferring one's
      > LP's onto CD's is fun, and whatever the equipment you'll be amazed by the
      > result - my first attempts were made with an old Amiga, a tiny 68040
      > processor, and as much as 16 Mo 'fast' memory! True 44100 sampling in
      > the Middle Ages of the computing era, with a soundcard smaller than a credit
      > card plugged into the clock port ;-)
      >
      > FWIW
      >
      > Patrice
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Joel Fritz
      Thanks. It s good to hear my point of view expressed in a way I couldn t. One thing I m curious about is that when looking at LP and CD reissues of music
      Message 2 of 29 , May 19 9:52 AM
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        Thanks. It's good to hear my point of view expressed in a way I
        couldn't. One thing I'm curious about is that when looking at LP and CD
        reissues of music recorded on 78s in a spectrum analyzer is that there
        seems to be very little sound above 10KHz. It could mean that most
        everyone who remastered them automatically filtered out the higher
        frequencies but I don't know. In the case of tiny label blues reissues
        from the 60s (I have a lot of those) I'm pretty sure that the LPs were
        made from collectors' 78s that were dubbed directly to tape. I know
        that some 78s from the 30s went up to 14KHz but I thought they were
        mostly classical.

        Noise reduction is tricky. One thing that happens with restored
        recordings a lot is people complaining about a loss of high
        frequencies. Often it's because the noise on the originals gave the
        illusion of high frequency content. OTOH it's easy to go to far with
        declicking and suppress transients. Hiss removal can result in bizarre
        sounding artifacts if it's too aggressive.

        Your friend,
        Barrelhouse Solly I

        It's never too late to do something your parents didn't want you to do.
        When that time comes Barrelhouse Solly will be there for you. He cares.

        Music: http://www.soundclick.com/barrelhousesolly
        Fractious Felines: http://ratemykitten.com/my/?gallery=willie_mctell



        Nick Dellow wrote:
        > The problem with technology is that the more powerful it is, the more harm
        > it can do in the wrong hands. Having said that, in the right hands audio
        > restoration tools like CEDAR are superb. I use Cedar equipment myself.
        >
        >
        >
        > It is important when discussing the restoration of 78s (and, to a lesser
        > extent, LPs) to understand that surface noise can be divided into three
        > separate, but closely related, entities: clicks, crackle and hiss (or as
        > John R.T. Davies used to say, "snap, crackle and pop"). Following the
        > declick, decrackle, dehiss theme, CEDAR's stand-alone units and
        > computer-based systems follow this model: declick first, then decrackle,
        > then dehiss. A good way of thinking of these anomalies is that crackle is
        > caused by very small clicks (usually resulting from some form of
        > micropitting in the groove wall - due to such things as the original filler
        > material expanding with moisture and breaking through the groove wall)
        > and hiss is very small crackle.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Nick Dellow
        Nothing beats Cedar, but if you want to restore a 78 in a cost effective manner, may I suggest the following for extremely good results: declick and decrackle
        Message 3 of 29 , May 19 11:20 AM
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          Nothing beats Cedar, but if you want to restore a 78 in a cost effective
          manner, may I suggest the following for extremely good results: declick and
          decrackle using SoundForge's DirectX Declick/Decrackle program, then dehiss
          using DC6's Continuous Noise Filter. But remember to use the right size
          stylus and a good cartridge (Stanton 500 is my favourite cartridge) and the
          correct equalization setting (as open as possible). The SoundForge
          Declick/Decrackle program costs about $300 and it is incredibly good for the
          price � no artefacts whatsoever. OK, it doesn't cut as far into the crackle
          as Cedar, but it does a pretty good job. And it is easy to use. DC6's
          declick filter is, by comparison, complicated and not very good, but the DC6
          Continuous Noise Filter is superb - just don't overdo it!


          Nick


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Joel Fritz
          I ll have to look at the Sound Forge plugin. I agree about the DC6 click removal. In three years of using the program I ve never figured out a way to get the
          Message 4 of 29 , May 19 11:40 AM
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            I'll have to look at the Sound Forge plugin. I agree about the DC6 click
            removal. In three years of using the program I've never figured out a
            way to get the results I want. I usually end up removing the big ones
            manually with the interpolation feature and relying on the Continuous
            Noise Filter for the rest.

            Your friend,
            Barrelhouse Solly I

            It's never too late to do something your parents didn't want you to do.
            When that time comes Barrelhouse Solly will be there for you. He cares.

            Music: http://www.soundclick.com/barrelhousesolly
            Fractious Felines: http://ratemykitten.com/my/?gallery=willie_mctell



            Nick Dellow wrote:
            > Nothing beats Cedar, but if you want to restore a 78 in a cost effective
            > manner, may I suggest the following for extremely good results: declick and
            > decrackle using SoundForge's DirectX Declick/Decrackle program, then dehiss
            > using DC6's Continuous Noise Filter. But remember to use the right size
            > stylus and a good cartridge (Stanton 500 is my favourite cartridge) and the
            > correct equalization setting (as open as possible). The SoundForge
            > Declick/Decrackle program costs about $300 and it is incredibly good for the
            > price – no artefacts whatsoever. OK, it doesn't cut as far into the crackle
            > as Cedar, but it does a pretty good job. And it is easy to use. DC6's
            > declick filter is, by comparison, complicated and not very good, but the DC6
            > Continuous Noise Filter is superb - just don't overdo it!
            >
            >
            > Nick
            >
            >
            > [
            >
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