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Re: [RedHotJazz] New Orleans

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  • Howard Rye
    ... This only proves anything if any of them were not passing . Does anyone know a case of a Creole musician who was not passing and able to work with white
    Message 1 of 61 , May 3, 2006
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      on 3/5/06 12:45, loerchen2@... at loerchen2@... wrote:

      > Dave is absolutely right -- the mix of cultures here in New Orleans has a
      > complexity that most outsiders don't see. Creole isn't just French, but
      > Spanish, West Indian, etc.
      >
      > And I can't let pass unchallenged the comment that all Creoles had to join
      > AF of M 496. There were a number of Creoles who "passed" and were full
      > members of 174. Dave Perkins is one of the most notable examples, but there
      > are
      > quite a few references in the oral histories to musicians of color that were
      > accepted into white bands and 174.
      >
      This only proves anything if any of them were not "passing". Does anyone
      know a case of a Creole musician who was not passing and able to work with
      white bands who was a member of Local 174? These guys joined Local 174 by
      allowing others to assume from their appearance that they didn't have
      African ancestors. Truly generous.

      I think you will find that all Creoles who worked in public performance with
      the African-American greats were members of 496 (or 208 in Chicago). Do
      prove me wrong.

      Sidney Arodin played with fellow African-Americans on record, but he surely
      never compromised his standing by doing so where white audiences might see
      him. This is a complex matter because there is clear evidence that musicians
      knew. The important thing was that the audience shouldn't find out (bluff
      within bluff!). Anyway it was illegal for black and white musicians to play
      together in public until the 60s, or so the books tell us. I admit I have
      never read the Louisiana statutes or New Orleans City Ordinances in which
      this illegality was embodied.

      In general, those who passed whether in music or other walks of life, were
      doubtless able to retain a more European culture. So what. Their culture
      wasn't determined by their genes but by their upbringing and the company
      they kept. As was pointed out in the original post of this thread the
      Créoles de couleur had originally had cultural aspirations much more
      European than African. Only those who were both very light-skinned and
      prepared to deny the African part of their heritage for financial gain
      (which often of course meant repudiating their relatives) were able to stay
      that way after the failure of Reconstruction.

      (Now the idea has been put in my head I shall look some of them up in the
      census and see how they are recorded.)

      Much later Joe Darensbourg got himself into difficulties by belonging to a
      white local in I think Seattle, where he worked with white bands, and the
      black local in either Los Angeles or San Francisco, where he worked with
      black groups. The details of this hilarious nonsense are in his
      autobiography somewhere.

      Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
      howard@...
      Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
    • Nigel Burlinson
      Annette was issued as Dot Dare on: Diva 2792/Harmony 792H (I Wanna Be Loved By You & Is There Anything Wrong In That?) and Diva 2829/Harmony 829H (I Faw Down
      Message 61 of 61 , Oct 17, 2012
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        Annette was issued as "Dot Dare" on:

        Diva 2792/Harmony 792H (I Wanna Be Loved By You & Is There Anything Wrong In That?)
        and
        Diva 2829/Harmony 829H (I Faw Down An' Go Boom) & Don't Be Like That)


        Nigel


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Bob Smith
        To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 12:39 PM
        Subject: [RedHotJazz] Annette Hanshaw, Puritone 1041



        Dear Patrice,

        I used the long URL, and that opened the E-Bay page. I then made a new TinyURL, and this resulted in exactly the same letter combination that you obtained, and this also worked fine. So I then tried your TinyURL again, and this also worked fine today!

        I must confess that it's difficult to be wise about the Internet.

        I've also had a look at the Tom Lord Jazz Discography (2011 edition). This says that the 'Dot Dare' pseudonym was only used on the two titles that are on Puritone, but doesn't mention the Puritone record, only naming the Harmony issue (Harmony 829-H) as does 'Jazz Directory' (1952 edition).

        Kind Regards

        Bob Smith

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