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The Virginians

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  • Gerard J. Fitzpatrick
    Does anyone know if any of the songs for the Virginians at the RedHotJazz site are available on CD? Allmusicguide.com lists only one CD: The Virginians,
    Message 1 of 25 , Jan 24, 2006
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      Does anyone know if any of the songs for the Virginians at the
      RedHotJazz site are available on CD? Allmusicguide.com lists only one
      CD: "The Virginians, 1922-1928" on the Classic Jazz Masters label, but
      I've not found this CD available anywhere. I would have thought that
      this group would have been covered by a label like Timeless, Frog, Jazz
      Oracle, Retrieval, Archeophone, etc. Thanks.

      Gerard
    • David Littlefield
      First place to go looking for CD availability and info is http://worldsrecords.com which tries to handle all reissues. The database is searchable in various
      Message 2 of 25 , Jan 24, 2006
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        First place to go looking for CD availability and info is
        http://worldsrecords.com

        which tries to handle all reissues. The database is searchable in various
        ways, so it's easy to deal with.

        I have no economic connection to Worlds Recods, I'm just a happy customer
        who finds what he wants when it's available.

        --Sheik

        On Wed, 25 Jan 2006, Gerard J. Fitzpatrick wrote:

        > Does anyone know if any of the songs for the Virginians at the
        > RedHotJazz site are available on CD? Allmusicguide.com lists only one
        > CD: "The Virginians, 1922-1928" on the Classic Jazz Masters label, but
        > I've not found this CD available anywhere. I would have thought that
        > this group would have been covered by a label like Timeless, Frog, Jazz
        > Oracle, Retrieval, Archeophone, etc. Thanks.
        >
        > Gerard
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Gerard J. Fitzpatrick
        Thanks, Sheik. I too have been a long time customer of Worlds Records (almost 30 years), but alas, there s no listing for The Virginians. If Ren Brown
        Message 3 of 25 , Jan 24, 2006
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          Thanks, Sheik. I too have been a long time customer of Worlds
          Records (almost 30 years), but alas, there's no listing for The
          Virginians. If Ren Brown doesn't have anything, then probably no one
          does.

          Gerard


          --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, David Littlefield <dwlit@c...>
          wrote:
          >
          > First place to go looking for CD availability and info is
          > http://worldsrecords.com
          >
          > which tries to handle all reissues. The database is searchable in
          various
          > ways, so it's easy to deal with.
          >
          > I have no economic connection to Worlds Recods, I'm just a happy
          customer
          > who finds what he wants when it's available.
          >
          > --Sheik
          >
          > On Wed, 25 Jan 2006, Gerard J. Fitzpatrick wrote:
          >
          > > Does anyone know if any of the songs for the Virginians at the
          > > RedHotJazz site are available on CD? Allmusicguide.com lists
          only one
          > > CD: "The Virginians, 1922-1928" on the Classic Jazz Masters
          label, but
          > > I've not found this CD available anywhere. I would have thought
          that
          > > this group would have been covered by a label like Timeless,
          Frog, Jazz
          > > Oracle, Retrieval, Archeophone, etc. Thanks.
          > >
          > > Gerard
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Agustín Pérez
          In a double-CD release called Early Jazz 1917-1923 in the French label Frémeaux et Associés, there´s a track by the Virginians called Harlem Blues and
          Message 4 of 25 , Jan 24, 2006
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            In a double-CD release called "Early Jazz 1917-1923" in the French
            label Frémeaux et Associés, there´s a track by the Virginians
            called "Harlem Blues" and recorded on 1922.

            As there´s no "Harlem Blues" by the Virginians listed on RedHotJazz,
            I wonder if the track included in the Frémeaux CD is not by "our"
            Virginians (satellite studio group of the Paul Whiteman Orchestra,
            leaded by Ross Gorman and recording for Victor) but Ace Brigode´s
            Virginians (who recorded on Edison, Columbia, Okeh, and Harmony)

            Best wishes,
            Agustín Pérez
            Madrid (Spain)
            ekebbbapg@...
            bhdezfdez@...



            --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Gerard J. Fitzpatrick"
            <gfitzpatrick@u...> wrote:
            >
            > Thanks, Sheik. I too have been a long time customer of Worlds
            > Records (almost 30 years), but alas, there's no listing for The
            > Virginians. If Ren Brown doesn't have anything, then probably no
            one
            > does.
            >
            > Gerard
            >
            >
            > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, David Littlefield <dwlit@c...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > First place to go looking for CD availability and info is
            > > http://worldsrecords.com
            > >
            > > which tries to handle all reissues. The database is searchable in
            > various
            > > ways, so it's easy to deal with.
            > >
            > > I have no economic connection to Worlds Recods, I'm just a happy
            > customer
            > > who finds what he wants when it's available.
            > >
            > > --Sheik
            > >
            > > On Wed, 25 Jan 2006, Gerard J. Fitzpatrick wrote:
            > >
            > > > Does anyone know if any of the songs for the Virginians at the
            > > > RedHotJazz site are available on CD? Allmusicguide.com lists
            > only one
            > > > CD: "The Virginians, 1922-1928" on the Classic Jazz Masters
            > label, but
            > > > I've not found this CD available anywhere. I would have
            thought
            > that
            > > > this group would have been covered by a label like Timeless,
            > Frog, Jazz
            > > > Oracle, Retrieval, Archeophone, etc. Thanks.
            > > >
            > > > Gerard
            > > >
          • Pavel Pitra
            Hi Augustín, Gerard and all, on my version of Early Jazz 1917-1923 , there is no Harlem Blues, but there is a Memphis Blues , played by the (Ross Gorman s)
            Message 5 of 25 , Jan 25, 2006
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              Hi Augustín, Gerard and all,

              on my version of "Early Jazz 1917-1923", there is no Harlem Blues,
              but there is a "Memphis Blues", played by the (Ross Gorman's)
              Virginians. And this one is listed on RedHotJazz... Perhaps a mistake
              in your booklet?

              Although, as far as I know, there is no commercial release of the
              Virginians, a collector, Steve Abrams
              (http://home.att.net/~smarbanevets/newadd.htm ) proposes two CD of
              them (CD-556A and B). I have these CDs and I'm quite happy with them.
              No remastering, just direct transfers from 78s.

              Cheers, Pavel

              ------
              >In a double-CD release called "Early Jazz 1917-1923" in the French
              >label Frémeaux et Associés, there´s a track by the Virginians
              >called "Harlem Blues" and recorded on 1922.
              >
              >As there´s no "Harlem Blues" by the Virginians listed on RedHotJazz,
              >I wonder if the track included in the Frémeaux CD is not by "our"
              >Virginians (satellite studio group of the Paul Whiteman Orchestra,
              >leaded by Ross Gorman and recording for Victor) but Ace Brigode´s
              >Virginians (who recorded on Edison, Columbia, Okeh, and Harmony)
            • Agustín Pérez
              Sorry, it was my mistake! I misread the title in their website (as I don´t have that 2 CD release). So, here´s one track by Ross Gorman´s Virginians. Best
              Message 6 of 25 , Jan 25, 2006
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                Sorry, it was my mistake! I misread the title in their website (as I
                don´t have that 2 CD release).

                So, here´s one track by Ross Gorman´s Virginians.

                Best wishes,
                Agustín

                --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Pavel Pitra <Pavel.Pitra@u...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Hi Augustín, Gerard and all,
                >
                > on my version of "Early Jazz 1917-1923", there is no Harlem Blues,
                > but there is a "Memphis Blues", played by the (Ross Gorman's)
                > Virginians. And this one is listed on RedHotJazz... Perhaps a
                mistake
                > in your booklet?
                >
                > Although, as far as I know, there is no commercial release of the
                > Virginians, a collector, Steve Abrams
                > (http://home.att.net/~smarbanevets/newadd.htm ) proposes two CD of
                > them (CD-556A and B). I have these CDs and I'm quite happy with
                them.
                > No remastering, just direct transfers from 78s.
                >
                > Cheers, Pavel
                >
                > ------
                > >In a double-CD release called "Early Jazz 1917-1923" in the French
                > >label Frémeaux et Associés, there´s a track by the Virginians
                > >called "Harlem Blues" and recorded on 1922.
                > >
                > >As there´s no "Harlem Blues" by the Virginians listed on
                RedHotJazz,
                > >I wonder if the track included in the Frémeaux CD is not by "our"
                > >Virginians (satellite studio group of the Paul Whiteman Orchestra,
                > >leaded by Ross Gorman and recording for Victor) but Ace Brigode´s
                > >Virginians (who recorded on Edison, Columbia, Okeh, and Harmony)
                >
              • Pavel Pitra
                Hi all, checking the Virginians at WorldsRecords, I fell on a CD from a label named Peakland (CD 5001 The Phonograph Entertains - Popular Recordings
                Message 7 of 25 , Jan 25, 2006
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                  Hi all,

                  checking the Virginians at WorldsRecords, I fell on a CD from a label
                  named Peakland (CD 5001 "The Phonograph Entertains - Popular
                  Recordings [1903-1924]"). I also found 3 other CDs from this label
                  that however seem not to be released yet, as no details are available.
                  Does anyone know anything about this label? I.e. who is behind, who
                  did the remastering (just to avoid Mr. Hebden's hand...), a general
                  impression from the 1st CD etc.

                  Thanks a lot in advance.

                  Happy listening!

                  Pavel
                • Agustín Pérez
                  According to AMG, Brian Wright is the producer and did the transfers. http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jan 25, 2006
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                    According to AMG, Brian Wright is the producer and did the transfers.

                    http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?
                    p=amg&token=ADFEAEE5781DDE4EAA7020C1993A46CBB672E20EFE5AFB86112F0450CFA9
                    161B985A75B464C295CCAEF870AB7BAFFF28E85B0FD9CEE95CFEDB764C40&uid=MIW0306
                    01251047&sql=10:i09ds31ea3pg~T2


                    Best wishes,
                    Agustín

                    --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Pavel Pitra <Pavel.Pitra@u...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi all,
                    >
                    > checking the Virginians at WorldsRecords, I fell on a CD from a label
                    > named Peakland (CD 5001 "The Phonograph Entertains - Popular
                    > Recordings [1903-1924]"). I also found 3 other CDs from this label
                    > that however seem not to be released yet, as no details are available.
                    > Does anyone know anything about this label? I.e. who is behind, who
                    > did the remastering (just to avoid Mr. Hebden's hand...), a general
                    > impression from the 1st CD etc.
                    >
                    > Thanks a lot in advance.
                    >
                    > Happy listening!
                    >
                    > Pavel
                    >
                  • Pavel Pitra
                    Well, that s great! Hey, Bryan, are you that guy (i.e. the Bryan that we know from this forum and the HotJazz one)? It the answer is yes, then I think you
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jan 25, 2006
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                      Well, that's great!

                      Hey, Bryan, are you that guy (i.e. the Bryan that we know from this
                      forum and the HotJazz one)?
                      It the answer is yes, then I think you should not be so modest and
                      make more advert for your work!

                      Bryan already produced at least three CDs that I bought to my entire
                      satisfaction. I can especially recommend "Harmony Dance Bands" on
                      Phono-Cut 1001. (there is a great Bixian trumpet on Lou Gold's
                      "Luscious").

                      Cheers,

                      Pavel


                      >According to AMG, Brian Wright is the producer and did the transfers.
                      >
                      >http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?
                      >p=amg&token=ADFEAEE5781DDE4EAA7020C1993A46CBB672E20EFE5AFB86112F0450CFA9
                      >161B985A75B464C295CCAEF870AB7BAFFF28E85B0FD9CEE95CFEDB764C40&uid=MIW0306
                      >01251047&sql=10:i09ds31ea3pg~T2
                      >
                      >
                      >Best wishes,
                      >Agustín
                      >
                      >--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Pavel Pitra <Pavel.Pitra@u...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> Hi all,
                      >>
                      >> checking the Virginians at WorldsRecords, I fell on a CD from a label
                      >> named Peakland (CD 5001 "The Phonograph Entertains - Popular
                      >> Recordings [1903-1924]"). I also found 3 other CDs from this label
                      >> that however seem not to be released yet, as no details are available.
                      >> Does anyone know anything about this label? I.e. who is behind, who
                      >> did the remastering (just to avoid Mr. Hebden's hand...), a general
                      >> impression from the 1st CD etc.
                      >>
                      >> Thanks a lot in advance.
                      >>
                      >> Happy listening!
                      >>
                      >> Pavel
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Fitzpatrick, Gerard
                      Pavel: Thanks for the tip. I ve seen the Abrams site before and have wondered about the quality of his products. I respect your endorsement. I am puzzled,
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jan 25, 2006
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                        Pavel:



                        Thanks for the tip. I've seen the Abrams site before and have wondered
                        about the quality of his products. I respect your endorsement. I am
                        puzzled, though, as to why a collection of the Virginians hasn't been put
                        out by Timeless, Jazz Oracle, etc. I should think such a volume would be
                        right up their alley-and certainly less obscure than some of the groups they
                        have released. Does anyone know if such a release is under consideration?
                        Thanks.



                        Gerard



                        _____

                        From: Pavel Pitra [mailto:Pavel.Pitra@...]
                        Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 9:28 AM
                        To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: The Virginians



                        Hi Augustín, Gerard and all,

                        on my version of "Early Jazz 1917-1923", there is no Harlem Blues,
                        but there is a "Memphis Blues", played by the (Ross Gorman's)
                        Virginians. And this one is listed on RedHotJazz... Perhaps a mistake
                        in your booklet?

                        Although, as far as I know, there is no commercial release of the
                        Virginians, a collector, Steve Abrams
                        (http://home.att.net/~smarbanevets/newadd.htm
                        <http://home.att.net/~smarbanevets/newadd.htm> ) proposes two CD of
                        them (CD-556A and B). I have these CDs and I'm quite happy with them.
                        No remastering, just direct transfers from 78s.

                        Cheers, Pavel

                        ------
                        >In a double-CD release called "Early Jazz 1917-1923" in the French
                        >label Frémeaux et Associés, there´s a track by the Virginians
                        >called "Harlem Blues" and recorded on 1922.
                        >
                        >As there´s no "Harlem Blues" by the Virginians listed on RedHotJazz,
                        >I wonder if the track included in the Frémeaux CD is not by "our"
                        >Virginians (satellite studio group of the Paul Whiteman Orchestra,
                        >leaded by Ross Gorman and recording for Victor) but Ace Brigode´s
                        >Virginians (who recorded on Edison, Columbia, Okeh, and Harmony)



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                      • vntager8io
                        Hi, Pavel and All. ... Yeah, that s me. I didn t mention the CD when it came out because it isn t strictly jazz, but rather an attempt to present a good
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jan 25, 2006
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                          Hi, Pavel and All.

                          > Hey, Bryan, are you that guy (i.e. the Bryan that we know from this
                          > forum and the HotJazz one)?

                          Yeah, that's me. I didn't mention the CD when it came out because it isn't strictly jazz, but
                          rather an attempt to present a good sampling of the type of records one might find in a
                          "typical" phonograph from the early 1920s. Thus, "The Phonograph Entertains" features
                          some jazz and dance bands (The Virginians included), but also tenor solos, marching
                          bands, vocal quartets, comedy songs, vaudeville sketches, monologues, novelites, etc. In
                          selecting the recordings, I tried to pick things that were interesting but which probably
                          would not ever be reissued otherwise.

                          > It the answer is yes, then I think you should not be so modest and
                          > make more advert for your work!

                          Then perhaps this would be a good time to add that in the works, I have an entire CD of
                          the Virginians planned. I've already got clean copies of the recordings, just need to sort
                          out the legal stuff and get to the transfers and remastering. It should be a decent
                          collection, but probably won't be out until this fall at the earliest. I'm working on it,
                          though!

                          As Pavel pointed out, Worlds Records lists several other Peakland discs. Those are also still
                          "in the works" but I expect they'll all be available by this summer. Keep watching those
                          "New Release" e-mails from Worlds :)

                          > Bryan already produced at least three CDs that I bought to my entire
                          > satisfaction. I can especially recommend "Harmony Dance Bands" on
                          > Phono-Cut 1001. (there is a great Bixian trumpet on Lou Gold's
                          > "Luscious").

                          Thanks for the kind words, Pavel. Actually, I wasn't very happy with the way "Harmony
                          Dance Bands" turned out. That and "Batwing Melodies" have been discontinued and are
                          now "out of print." However, I'm thinking of reissuing Harmony Dance Bands with much
                          better transfers (from better sources) and with some added tracks.

                          Keep swingin'
                          Bryan Wright
                        • Gerard J. Fitzpatrick
                          Bryan: It certainly made my day to learn that you are in the process of producing a CD of the Virginians. I very much look forward to acquiring it. But
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jan 25, 2006
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                            Bryan:

                            It certainly made my day to learn that you are in the process of
                            producing a CD of the Virginians. I very much look forward to
                            acquiring it. But please tell us, if you can, why the "big boys"
                            (relatively speaking) like Timeless Historical et al. haven't already
                            produced a collection of the Virginians?

                            Gerard


                            --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "vntager8io" <bryan@c...> wrote:

                            Hi, Pavel and All.

                            I have an entire CD of the Virginians planned. I've already got clean
                            copies of the recordings, just need to sort out the legal stuff and
                            get to the transfers and remastering. It should be a decent
                            collection, but probably won't be out until this fall at the
                            earliest. I'm working on it, though!

                            Keep watching those "New Release" e-mails from Worlds :)

                            Keep swingin'
                            Bryan Wright
                          • vntager8io
                            Hi, Gerard. ... I really haven t any idea why Timeless or the others have not already done a Virginians reissue. Putting together reissues does take a lot of
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jan 25, 2006
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                              Hi, Gerard.

                              > But please tell us, if you can, why the "big boys"
                              > (relatively speaking) like Timeless Historical et al. haven't already
                              > produced a collection of the Virginians?

                              I really haven't any idea why Timeless or the others have not already done a Virginians
                              reissue. Putting together reissues does take a lot of time, effort, and money, and I can only
                              assume that they just hadn't gotten around to it yet. There are so many good jazz and
                              dance bands from that era, but only so many labels working to reissue this stuff.
                              Furthermore, I get the feeling that CDs reissued from electrically-recorded material do
                              better commercially these days, and since all of Ross Gorman's Virginians titles were made
                              acoustically, they *may* be worried about poor sales, pushing off such a project to get on
                              with others that are likely to sell better. Finally, as far as jazz records go, Virginians discs
                              really aren't that rare. Most people who would likely buy a CD of the Virginians are
                              probably also 78 collectors who would already have many of the original 78s and not be as
                              likely to buy the same music again on CD. Again, I'm only speculating here. When you look
                              at what material is being reissued on CD, you'll find that most of the time, the original 78s
                              are scarce, or at least uncommon. The "big" labeels try to reissue stuff that even 78
                              collectors are not likely to have (particularly in good condition). Precious few CD reissues
                              focus on commonly-available 78s.

                              Bryan Wright
                            • Fitzpatrick, Gerard
                              Bryan: I ve learned a lot from your post about the forces behind producing our kind of music on CD. Thanks for taking the time. I look forward to your
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jan 26, 2006
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                                Bryan:



                                I've learned a lot from your post about the forces behind producing our kind
                                of music on CD. Thanks for taking the time. I look forward to your
                                Virginians CD.



                                Gerard



                                _____

                                From: vntager8io [mailto:bryan@...]
                                Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 10:43 PM
                                To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Peakland CDs



                                Hi, Gerard.

                                > But please tell us, if you can, why the "big boys"
                                > (relatively speaking) like Timeless Historical et al. haven't already
                                > produced a collection of the Virginians?

                                I really haven't any idea why Timeless or the others have not already done a
                                Virginians
                                reissue. Putting together reissues does take a lot of time, effort, and
                                money, and I can only
                                assume that they just hadn't gotten around to it yet. There are so many good
                                jazz and
                                dance bands from that era, but only so many labels working to reissue this
                                stuff.
                                Furthermore, I get the feeling that CDs reissued from electrically-recorded
                                material do
                                better commercially these days, and since all of Ross Gorman's Virginians
                                titles were made
                                acoustically, they *may* be worried about poor sales, pushing off such a
                                project to get on
                                with others that are likely to sell better. Finally, as far as jazz records
                                go, Virginians discs
                                really aren't that rare. Most people who would likely buy a CD of the
                                Virginians are
                                probably also 78 collectors who would already have many of the original 78s
                                and not be as
                                likely to buy the same music again on CD. Again, I'm only speculating here.
                                When you look
                                at what material is being reissued on CD, you'll find that most of the time,
                                the original 78s
                                are scarce, or at least uncommon. The "big" labeels try to reissue stuff
                                that even 78
                                collectors are not likely to have (particularly in good condition). Precious
                                few CD reissues
                                focus on commonly-available 78s.

                                Bryan Wright






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                              • henk peters
                                ... Hello Gerard I found a Rosa Henderson recording acc by The Virginians: Struttin Blues (Victor 19157) on Document DOCD 5401 personnel: Henry Busse, Frank
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jan 26, 2006
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                                  Fitzpatrick, Gerard schreef:

                                  > Bryan:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I've learned a lot from your post about the forces behind producing
                                  > our kind
                                  > of music on CD. Thanks for taking the time. I look forward to your
                                  > Virginians CD.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Gerard
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > _____
                                  >
                                  > From: vntager8io [mailto:bryan@...]
                                  > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 10:43 PM
                                  > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Peakland CDs
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Hi, Gerard.
                                  >
                                  > > But please tell us, if you can, why the "big boys"
                                  > > (relatively speaking) like Timeless Historical et al. haven't already
                                  > > produced a collection of the Virginians?
                                  >
                                  > I really haven't any idea why Timeless or the others have not already
                                  > done a
                                  > Virginians
                                  > reissue. Putting together reissues does take a lot of time, effort, and
                                  > money, and I can only
                                  > assume that they just hadn't gotten around to it yet. There are so
                                  > many good
                                  > jazz and
                                  > dance bands from that era, but only so many labels working to reissue this
                                  > stuff.
                                  > Furthermore, I get the feeling that CDs reissued from
                                  > electrically-recorded
                                  > material do
                                  > better commercially these days, and since all of Ross Gorman's Virginians
                                  > titles were made
                                  > acoustically, they *may* be worried about poor sales, pushing off such a
                                  > project to get on
                                  > with others that are likely to sell better. Finally, as far as jazz
                                  > records
                                  > go, Virginians discs
                                  > really aren't that rare. Most people who would likely buy a CD of the
                                  > Virginians are
                                  > probably also 78 collectors who would already have many of the
                                  > original 78s
                                  > and not be as
                                  > likely to buy the same music again on CD. Again, I'm only speculating
                                  > here.
                                  > When you look
                                  > at what material is being reissued on CD, you'll find that most of the
                                  > time,
                                  > the original 78s
                                  > are scarce, or at least uncommon. The "big" labeels try to reissue stuff
                                  > that even 78
                                  > collectors are not likely to have (particularly in good condition).
                                  > Precious
                                  > few CD reissues
                                  > focus on commonly-available 78s.
                                  >
                                  > Bryan Wright
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > SPONSORED LINKS
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Jazz
                                  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Jazz+music&w1=Jazz+music&w2=Genres+of+m
                                  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Jazz+music&w1=Jazz+music&w2=Genres+of+m>
                                  > usic&w3=Music+genres&c=3&s=55&.sig=Zuo6Aij_Z7bHnW-4EJ7sHA> music
                                  >
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                                  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Genres+of+music&w1=Jazz+music&w2=Genres
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                                  >
                                  > Music
                                  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Music+genres&w1=Jazz+music&w2=Genres+of
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                                  > +music&w3=Music+genres&c=3&s=55&.sig=2BHhHAsQWYgGXD67WFh59Q> genres
                                  >
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                                  >
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                                  >
                                  Hello Gerard

                                  I found a Rosa Henderson recording acc by The Virginians: Struttin'
                                  Blues (Victor 19157) on Document DOCD 5401
                                  personnel: Henry Busse, Frank Siegrist (cn) Sammy Lewis (tb) Ross Gonman
                                  (cl) Hale Byers, Don Clark (as) Ferdie Crofe (pn) Mike Pingitore (bj)
                                  Jack Barsby (bb)

                                  Regards to all

                                  Henk
                                • Fitzpatrick, Gerard
                                  Henk: Thanks for the reference. Scott Alexander also has made this song available at Redhotjazz.com. Gerard _____ From: henk peters
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jan 27, 2006
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                                    Henk:



                                    Thanks for the reference. Scott Alexander also has made this song available
                                    at Redhotjazz.com.



                                    Gerard



                                    _____

                                    From: henk peters [mailto:h.peters12@...]
                                    Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 1:07 AM
                                    To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Re: Peakland CDs



                                    Hello Gerard

                                    I found a Rosa Henderson recording acc by The Virginians: Struttin'
                                    Blues (Victor 19157) on Document DOCD 5401
                                    personnel: Henry Busse, Frank Siegrist (cn) Sammy Lewis (tb) Ross Gonman
                                    (cl) Hale Byers, Don Clark (as) Ferdie Crofe (pn) Mike Pingitore (bj)
                                    Jack Barsby (bb)

                                    Regards to all

                                    Henk



                                    _____

                                    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



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                                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RedHotJazz> " on the web.

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                                  • Pavel Pitra
                                    Hi all, since two years, Blues Images is releasing the Blues Calendar (e.g.
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jan 31, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi all,

                                      since two years, Blues Images is releasing the Blues Calendar (e.g.
                                      http://worldsrecords.com/cgi-bin/storeR.cgi?specific=itemcode&phrase=55240&cart_id=01-30-06.11775&saved=general),
                                      a nice calendar featuring original blues-related artwork from the 20s
                                      (+ 30s?) and reminding birthdays etc. of various blues artists and
                                      that is accompanied by a CD with various, often not reissued blues
                                      recordings. Personally, I don't particularly appreciate pure blues,
                                      but I bought the calendar because I like the 20s artwork.
                                      I found it deceiving (although perhaps understandable?) that
                                      exclusively black artists are mentioned. And I thought that it
                                      would be great if someone decided to produce a similar calendar
                                      oriented on 20s jazz and _dance_ bands (even not exclusively white,
                                      although this would equilibrate the situation). There is certainly
                                      enough interesting material around. I would certainly buy such a
                                      product (even twice!) and I believe perhaps an important part of the
                                      members of this forum would buy it as well. We are 260 today,
                                      perhaps selling even 200 calendars would make the project
                                      economically viable?

                                      Personally, I have no experience or aptitude in such sort of
                                      projects, but perhaps some members that already produced commercial
                                      material (Bryan, ...?) would know how to do? For myself, I would be
                                      willing to lend a helping hand for free if required...

                                      Well, that's just an idea, but I think if realised, it could make
                                      something really nice! What do you think?

                                      Cheers,

                                      Pavel
                                    • Howard Rye
                                      ... Yes, that s because it s a blues calendar! It would be very difficult to do anything featuring white artists because these adverts come from the
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jan 31, 2006
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                                        on 31/1/06 8:46, Pavel Pitra at Pavel.Pitra@... wrote:

                                        > Hi all,
                                        >
                                        > since two years, Blues Images is releasing the Blues Calendar (e.g.
                                        > http://worldsrecords.com/cgi-bin/storeR.cgi?specific=itemcode&phrase=55240&car
                                        > t_id=01-30-06.11775&saved=general),
                                        > a nice calendar featuring original blues-related artwork from the 20s
                                        > (+ 30s?) and reminding birthdays etc. of various blues artists and
                                        > that is accompanied by a CD with various, often not reissued blues
                                        > recordings. Personally, I don't particularly appreciate pure blues,
                                        > but I bought the calendar because I like the 20s artwork.
                                        > I found it deceiving (although perhaps understandable?) that
                                        > exclusively black artists are mentioned.

                                        Yes, that's because it's a blues calendar!

                                        It would be very difficult to do anything featuring white artists because
                                        these adverts come from the African-American press. Fine examples of those
                                        for jazz artists can be found in Max Vreede's Paramount book and extensively
                                        in Laurie Wright's works. Unlike those in Tefteller's calendars these are
                                        reproduced without doctoring.

                                        I have never seen anything remotely similar from the white press, which
                                        isn't to say that there aren't any. I have no idea at all of how records
                                        were marketed to Southern whites. Maybe their newspapers are full of similar
                                        adverts, but somehow I doubt it.

                                        However, you say "There is certainly enough interesting material around."
                                        Where?

                                        My personal favorite artistically is Victor's lovely art deco ad for
                                        Morton's Shoe Shiner's Drag (Chicago Defender, 29 December 1928, reproduced
                                        on p.57 of Mr. Jelly Lord).


                                        Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                                        howard@...
                                        Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
                                      • Michael Rader
                                        If I recall correctly, the original idea behind the calendar was to publish some of the artwork for Paramount which had been found more or less on a rubbish
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jan 31, 2006
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                                          If I recall correctly, the original idea behind the calendar was to publish some of the artwork for Paramount which had been found more or less on a rubbish heap. This provided the basis for the first (2004) calendar, which indeed has quite heavily manipulated images. The latest (2006) version has less tampering, although I'm not sure that the original adverts had photos of the artists on them (haven't yet checked with other versions). Additionally, the advertising is no longer restricted to Paramount, since much additional artwork has since turned up, or at least Tefteller has been given access to it. The main benefit of the calendar is that it uses the original artwork and not newspaper reproductions, giving it greater clarity. There are apparently plans to publish a book containing a whole collection of these adverts, hopefully unadorned.

                                          Michael Rader



                                          RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com schrieb am 31.01.06 10:54:26:
                                          >
                                          > on 31/1/06 8:46, Pavel Pitra at Pavel.Pitra@... wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > Hi all,
                                          > >
                                          > > since two years, Blues Images is releasing the Blues Calendar (e.g.
                                          > > http://worldsrecords.com/cgi-bin/storeR.cgi?specific=itemcode&phrase=55240&car
                                          > > t_id=01-30-06.11775&saved=general),
                                          > > a nice calendar featuring original blues-related artwork from the 20s
                                          > > (+ 30s?) and reminding birthdays etc. of various blues artists and
                                          > > that is accompanied by a CD with various, often not reissued blues
                                          > > recordings. Personally, I don't particularly appreciate pure blues,
                                          > > but I bought the calendar because I like the 20s artwork.
                                          > > I found it deceiving (although perhaps understandable?) that
                                          > > exclusively black artists are mentioned.
                                          >
                                          > Yes, that's because it's a blues calendar!
                                          >
                                          > It would be very difficult to do anything featuring white artists because
                                          > these adverts come from the African-American press. Fine examples of those
                                          > for jazz artists can be found in Max Vreede's Paramount book and extensively
                                          > in Laurie Wright's works. Unlike those in Tefteller's calendars these are
                                          > reproduced without doctoring.
                                          >
                                          > I have never seen anything remotely similar from the white press, which
                                          > isn't to say that there aren't any. I have no idea at all of how records
                                          > were marketed to Southern whites. Maybe their newspapers are full of similar
                                          > adverts, but somehow I doubt it.
                                          >
                                          > However, you say "There is certainly enough interesting material around."
                                          > Where?
                                          >
                                          > My personal favorite artistically is Victor's lovely art deco ad for
                                          > Morton's Shoe Shiner's Drag (Chicago Defender, 29 December 1928, reproduced
                                          > on p.57 of Mr. Jelly Lord).
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                                          > howard@...
                                          > Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >


                                          ______________________________________________________________________
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                                        • Pavel Pitra
                                          Hi Howard, ... Well, yes, but they mention Armstrong, Moten (and even perhaps Bix?!), although I wouldn t qualify those as primarily blues artists .... But
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jan 31, 2006
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hi Howard,

                                            > > I found it deceiving (although perhaps understandable?) that
                                            >> exclusively black artists are mentioned.
                                            >
                                            >Yes, that's because it's a blues calendar!

                                            Well, yes, but they mention Armstrong, Moten (and even perhaps
                                            Bix?!), although I wouldn't qualify those as primarily "blues
                                            artists".... But OK...

                                            >It would be very difficult to do anything featuring white artists because
                                            >these adverts come from the African-American press.....
                                            >
                                            >I have never seen anything remotely similar from the white press, which
                                            >isn't to say that there aren't any. I have no idea at all of how records
                                            >were marketed to Southern whites. Maybe their newspapers are full of similar
                                            >adverts, but somehow I doubt it.

                                            I'm not sure if I expressed myself clearly enough (and if I correctly
                                            understood your answer). I wasn't looking for some white "racist"
                                            material, rather plain adverts for "white" (and even black) jazz and
                                            _dance_ orchestras and songs - sort of "Buy the new Goldkette
                                            recording of 'In My Merry Oldsmobile'", or "Scranton Sirens playing
                                            (here or there) tonight" etc.

                                            >However, you say "There is certainly enough interesting material around."
                                            >Where?

                                            I don't know, but I suppose that they must be much more frequent
                                            given the stronger financial potential of the white population and
                                            therefore probably much more advertising aimed at the white
                                            population.

                                            Precisely, if I had access such material and knew where to get it, I
                                            could make such a calendar myslef... which is not the case, therefore
                                            my email...

                                            Cheers,

                                            Pavel
                                          • Howard Rye
                                            ... I didn t make myself clear either. What I meant to imply was that I think these advertisements for Race issues were generated specifically by the
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jan 31, 2006
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                                              on 31/1/06 10:23, Pavel Pitra at Pavel.Pitra@... wrote:

                                              >> It would be very difficult to do anything featuring white artists because
                                              >> these adverts come from the African-American press.....
                                              >>
                                              >> I have never seen anything remotely similar from the white press, which
                                              >> isn't to say that there aren't any. I have no idea at all of how records
                                              >> were marketed to Southern whites. Maybe their newspapers are full of similar
                                              >> adverts, but somehow I doubt it.
                                              >
                                              > I'm not sure if I expressed myself clearly enough (and if I correctly
                                              > understood your answer). I wasn't looking for some white "racist"
                                              > material, rather plain adverts for "white" (and even black) jazz and
                                              > _dance_ orchestras and songs - sort of "Buy the new Goldkette
                                              > recording of 'In My Merry Oldsmobile'", or "Scranton Sirens playing
                                              > (here or there) tonight" etc.

                                              I didn't make myself clear either.

                                              What I meant to imply was that I think these advertisements for Race issues
                                              were generated specifically by the possibility of advertising to a closely
                                              defined target market. There are quite possibly similar adverts for the
                                              ethnic catalogs in papers aimed at Polish Americans and so on.

                                              But where would you actually place "Buy the new Goldkette recording of 'In
                                              My Merry Oldsmobile'"? The general market was much more diffuse.

                                              I don't recall any record advertisements in the New York Times for example,
                                              though there are plenty of adverts for shows. How did you reach the market
                                              for Jean Goldkette? There may be an obvious answer but I don't know it and
                                              the fact that I've never seen the adverts reproduced makes me doubtful. If
                                              they existed you'd think they'd be in Bix, Man and Legend for instance,
                                              wouldn't you?

                                              The only adverts found for the Fabulous Fives project were for the Race
                                              issues and an English Columbia advert for the ODJB "Real Jazz - Jazzily
                                              Recorded" which I think is from the trade press.

                                              Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                                              howard@...
                                              Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
                                            • Pavel Pitra
                                              ... OK, this is a very good point that I didn t think about at all... Maybe such adverts really were rather rare. I just thought they weren t by analogy -
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jan 31, 2006
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                                                >But where would you actually place "Buy the new Goldkette recording of 'In
                                                >My Merry Oldsmobile'"? The general market was much more diffuse.
                                                >
                                                >I don't recall any record advertisements in the New York Times for example,
                                                >though there are plenty of adverts for shows. How did you reach the market
                                                >for Jean Goldkette? There may be an obvious answer but I don't know it and
                                                >the fact that I've never seen the adverts reproduced makes me doubtful. If
                                                >they existed you'd think they'd be in Bix, Man and Legend for instance,
                                                >wouldn't you?

                                                OK, this is a very good point that I didn't think about at all...
                                                Maybe such adverts really were rather rare. I just thought they
                                                weren't by analogy - today's TV is full (at specific moments) of
                                                adverts for this or that CD... but possibly radio played this role in
                                                the 20s rather than the newspapers...

                                                Well, then the calendar would have to use some other type of material
                                                - adverts for shows, photographs of more or less obscure bands etc. I
                                                still think it would be a great thing...

                                                All the best,

                                                Pavel
                                              • Albert Haim
                                                I found one ad in the New York Times for a Goldkette record. This ad was in the May 29, 1924 issue. See it in
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jan 31, 2006
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  I found one ad in the New York Times for a Goldkette record. This ad
                                                  was in the May 29, 1924 issue. See it in
                                                  http://bixbeiderbecke.com/adnytgoldketterecord.jpg

                                                  The New York Times published ads for "New Victor Records" in the
                                                  1920s. I saw many ads for Paul Whiteman records.

                                                  Albert


                                                  --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Pavel Pitra <Pavel.Pitra@u...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > >But where would you actually place "Buy the new Goldkette recording
                                                  of 'In
                                                  > >My Merry Oldsmobile'"? The general market was much more diffuse.
                                                  > >
                                                  > >I don't recall any record advertisements in the New York Times for
                                                  example,
                                                  > >though there are plenty of adverts for shows. How did you reach the
                                                  market
                                                  > >for Jean Goldkette? There may be an obvious answer but I don't know
                                                  it and
                                                  > >the fact that I've never seen the adverts reproduced makes me
                                                  doubtful. If
                                                  > >they existed you'd think they'd be in Bix, Man and Legend for instance,
                                                  > >wouldn't you?
                                                  >
                                                  > OK, this is a very good point that I didn't think about at all...
                                                  > Maybe such adverts really were rather rare. I just thought they
                                                  > weren't by analogy - today's TV is full (at specific moments) of
                                                  > adverts for this or that CD... but possibly radio played this role in
                                                  > the 20s rather than the newspapers...
                                                  >
                                                  > Well, then the calendar would have to use some other type of material
                                                  > - adverts for shows, photographs of more or less obscure bands etc. I
                                                  > still think it would be a great thing...
                                                  >
                                                  > All the best,
                                                  >
                                                  > Pavel
                                                  >
                                                • Howard Rye
                                                  ... Interesting, but not quite the same kind of thing the companies put in the Defender and the Afro-American. A mite more decorous, shall we say. Howard Rye,
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Jan 31, 2006
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    on 31/1/06 22:13, Albert Haim at alberthaim@... wrote:

                                                    > I found one ad in the New York Times for a Goldkette record. This ad
                                                    > was in the May 29, 1924 issue. See it in
                                                    > http://bixbeiderbecke.com/adnytgoldketterecord.jpg

                                                    Interesting, but not quite the same kind of thing the companies put in the
                                                    Defender and the Afro-American.

                                                    A mite more decorous, shall we say.

                                                    Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                                                    howard@...
                                                    Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
                                                  • Mordechai Litzman
                                                    I recall a 1918 Victor advertisement for the ODJB featured on a reissue describing the origin of the word jazz/jass as coming from California. However, I am
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Feb 1, 2006
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      I recall a 1918 Victor advertisement for the ODJB featured on a reissue describing the origin of the word jazz/jass as coming from California. However, I am presently abroad, and the exact description of the ad and artwork has to wait until next week, unless somebody else has this information handy.

                                                      Howard Rye <howard@...> wrote: on 31/1/06 10:23, Pavel Pitra at Pavel.Pitra@... wrote:

                                                      >> It would be very difficult to do anything featuring white artists because
                                                      >> these adverts come from the African-American press.....
                                                      >>
                                                      >> I have never seen anything remotely similar from the white press, which
                                                      >> isn't to say that there aren't any. I have no idea at all of how records
                                                      >> were marketed to Southern whites. Maybe their newspapers are full of similar
                                                      >> adverts, but somehow I doubt it.
                                                      >
                                                      > I'm not sure if I expressed myself clearly enough (and if I correctly
                                                      > understood your answer). I wasn't looking for some white "racist"
                                                      > material, rather plain adverts for "white" (and even black) jazz and
                                                      > _dance_ orchestras and songs - sort of "Buy the new Goldkette
                                                      > recording of 'In My Merry Oldsmobile'", or "Scranton Sirens playing
                                                      > (here or there) tonight" etc.

                                                      I didn't make myself clear either.

                                                      What I meant to imply was that I think these advertisements for Race issues
                                                      were generated specifically by the possibility of advertising to a closely
                                                      defined target market. There are quite possibly similar adverts for the
                                                      ethnic catalogs in papers aimed at Polish Americans and so on.

                                                      But where would you actually place "Buy the new Goldkette recording of 'In
                                                      My Merry Oldsmobile'"? The general market was much more diffuse.

                                                      I don't recall any record advertisements in the New York Times for example,
                                                      though there are plenty of adverts for shows. How did you reach the market
                                                      for Jean Goldkette? There may be an obvious answer but I don't know it and
                                                      the fact that I've never seen the adverts reproduced makes me doubtful. If
                                                      they existed you'd think they'd be in Bix, Man and Legend for instance,
                                                      wouldn't you?

                                                      The only adverts found for the Fabulous Fives project were for the Race
                                                      issues and an English Columbia advert for the ODJB "Real Jazz - Jazzily
                                                      Recorded" which I think is from the trade press.

                                                      Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                                                      howard@...
                                                      Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




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