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Red Hot Flo

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  • Michael Rader
    Are there any new thoughts on the clarinet player on Red Hot Flo (From Ko-Ko-Mo) by Eva Taylor and Clarence Williams Blue Five recorded in New York City on
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 27, 2005
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      Are there any new thoughts on the clarinet player on "Red Hot Flo (From Ko-Ko-Mo)" by Eva Taylor and Clarence Williams' Blue Five recorded in New York City on April 16 1927 (mx. OKeh 80740-A)? Unless Johnny Dodds was visiting an aunt in New York, investigating the New York Taxi system or doing Easter shopping (I don't know when Easter was in 1927, so maybe this can be immediately dismissed), who could it be?

      Another teaser.

      All the best,

      Michael Rader,

      Karlsruhe, Germany
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    • Mordechai Litzman
      Is this recording available on RHJA ? - couldn t find it. Two recordings from 4/14/27 did not have anything sounding like Johnny Dodds. Michael Rader
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 27, 2005
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        Is this recording available on RHJA ? - couldn't find it. Two recordings from 4/14/27 did not have anything sounding like Johnny Dodds.

        Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...> wrote: Are there any new thoughts on the clarinet player on "Red Hot Flo (From Ko-Ko-Mo)" by Eva Taylor and Clarence Williams' Blue Five recorded in New York City on April 16 1927 (mx. OKeh 80740-A)? Unless Johnny Dodds was visiting an aunt in New York, investigating the New York Taxi system or doing Easter shopping (I don't know when Easter was in 1927, so maybe this can be immediately dismissed), who could it be?

        Another teaser.

        All the best,

        Michael Rader,

        Karlsruhe, Germany
        ______________________________________________________________
        Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS!
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      • Michael Rader
        I couldn t find it there either. It is on Volume 1 of the Collectors Classics series and also on Volume 1 of the Document Eva Taylor series - don t know about
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 27, 2005
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          I couldn't find it there either. It is on Volume 1 of the Collectors Classics series and also on Volume 1 of the Document Eva Taylor series - don't know about the Classics/Neatwork reissues. It most likely isn't really Dodds, but definitely played in his style.

          Cheers,

          Michael Rader

          >
          > Is this recording available on RHJA ? - couldn't find it. Two recordings from 4/14/27 did not have anything sounding like Johnny Dodds.
          >
          > Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...> wrote: Are there any new thoughts on the clarinet player on "Red Hot Flo (From Ko-Ko-Mo)" by Eva Taylor and Clarence Williams' Blue Five recorded in New York City on April 16 1927 (mx. OKeh 80740-A)? Unless Johnny Dodds was visiting an aunt in New York, investigating the New York Taxi system or doing Easter shopping (I don't know when Easter was in 1927, so maybe this can be immediately dismissed), who could it be?
          >
          > Another teaser.
          >
          > All the best,
          >
          > Michael Rader,
          >
          > Karlsruhe, Germany
          > ______________________________________________________________
          > Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS!
          > Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=021193
          >
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          > Visit your group "RedHotJazz" on the web.
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > RedHotJazz-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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        • Howard Rye
          ... There are two licks which sound as though they might well have been deiberately copied from Dodds. (Even possibly from a record.) About the only thing I m
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 28, 2005
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            on 27/12/05 17:14, Michael Rader at Rader.Michael@... wrote:

            > I couldn't find it there either. It is on Volume 1 of the Collectors Classics
            > series and also on Volume 1 of the Document Eva Taylor series - don't know
            > about the Classics/Neatwork reissues. It most likely isn't really Dodds, but
            > definitely played in his style.

            There are two licks which sound as though they might well have been
            deiberately copied from Dodds. (Even possibly from a record.) About the only
            thing I'm sure about about this player is that it is not Dodds, but you knew
            I was going to say that!

            Even more interesting, don't you think, is what this player is doing on the
            other side - Smile Your Bluesies Away? This might provide a much more secure
            clue to his identity. So far I have only listened on Document DOCD5409
            (actually Vol. 2 of the Document Eva Taylor series), which is not sonically
            marvellous.
            >>
            >> Is this recording available on RHJA ? - couldn't find it. Two recordings from
            >> 4/14/27 did not have anything sounding like Johnny Dodds.
            >>
            >> Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...> wrote: Are there any new thoughts on
            >> the clarinet player on "Red Hot Flo (From Ko-Ko-Mo)" by Eva Taylor and
            >> Clarence Williams' Blue Five recorded in New York City on April 16 1927 (mx.
            >> OKeh 80740-A)? Unless Johnny Dodds was visiting an aunt in New York,
            >> investigating the New York Taxi system or doing Easter shopping (I don't know
            >> when Easter was in 1927, so maybe this can be immediately dismissed), who
            >> could it be?
            >>


            Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
            howard@...
            Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
          • Michael Rader
            There s a note on this recording in the booklet coming with Frog DGF37 (Shake em Up by Clarence Williams). In this, Richard Rains states that part of the
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 31, 2005
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              There's a note on this recording in the booklet coming with Frog DGF37 (Shake 'em Up by Clarence Williams). In this, Richard Rains states that part of the Jimmy Wade band was brought in for the session with "Red Hot Flo". This would indicate that the violin player is Eddie South and the clarinet player (most likely) Arnett Nelson or (possibly) Vernon Roulette. I don't know whence this wisdom, since Rains doesn't state any sources. The closest recordings in time known to be Wade are an April 5 1927 session.

              All the best and "einen guten Rutsch" as we say around here.

              Michael Rader

              Karelsruhe, Germany

              > There are two licks which sound as though they might well have been
              > deiberately copied from Dodds. (Even possibly from a record.) About the only
              > thing I'm sure about about this player is that it is not Dodds, but you knew
              > I was going to say that!
              >
              > Even more interesting, don't you think, is what this player is doing on the
              > other side - Smile Your Bluesies Away? This might provide a much more secure
              > clue to his identity. So far I have only listened on Document DOCD5409
              > (actually Vol. 2 of the Document Eva Taylor series), which is not sonically
              > marvellous.
              > >>
              > >> Is this recording available on RHJA ? - couldn't find it. Two recordings from
              > >> 4/14/27 did not have anything sounding like Johnny Dodds.
              > >>
              > >> Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...> wrote: Are there any new thoughts on
              > >> the clarinet player on "Red Hot Flo (From Ko-Ko-Mo)" by Eva Taylor and
              > >> Clarence Williams' Blue Five recorded in New York City on April 16 1927 (mx.
              > >> OKeh 80740-A)? Unless Johnny Dodds was visiting an aunt in New York,
              > >> investigating the New York Taxi system or doing Easter shopping (I don't know
              > >> when Easter was in 1927, so maybe this can be immediately dismissed), who
              > >> could it be?
              > >>
              >
              >
              > Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
              > howard@...
              > Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


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            • Howard Rye
              ... Most theories about the presence of Arnett Nelson on records originate with the late Ernest Virgo, who was capable of hearing virtually any unknown
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 31, 2005
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                on 31/12/05 10:10, Michael Rader at Rader.Michael@... wrote:

                > There's a note on this recording in the booklet coming with Frog DGF37 (Shake
                > 'em Up by Clarence Williams). In this, Richard Rains states that part of the
                > Jimmy Wade band was brought in for the session with "Red Hot Flo". This would
                > indicate that the violin player is Eddie South and the clarinet player (most
                > likely) Arnett Nelson or (possibly) Vernon Roulette. I don't know whence this
                > wisdom, since Rains doesn't state any sources. The closest recordings in time
                > known to be Wade are an April 5 1927 session.

                Most theories about the presence of Arnett Nelson on records originate with
                the late Ernest Virgo, who was capable of hearing virtually any unknown
                clarinettist as Nelson! The Wade band has probably been imported as a back
                formation from this. Tom Lord's Clarence Williams simply says that the
                cornet IS Ed Allen and that is what all previous informed listeners had
                heard.

                Compare South's playing on OKeh 8407 and forget that possibility anyway.
                Forget Edgar Sampson too! Howard Nelson is named as the violinist
                essentially because he is known (from Clarence I think) to be on some
                Williams sides from this period. As these would be his only records there is
                nothing to compare them with. He used to be named also for Eva's Columbia
                14296-D, but file data names this violinist (not a hot player) as Noel
                Clukies.

                There is no personnel information on the file cards for 80739/40.

                Happy New Year to you too.

                Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                howard@...
                Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
              • Bob Eagle
                Noel Clukies ( Musician, Nightclub ) was enumerated for the 1930 Census at 742 St Nicholas Avenue, New York. He was aged 25 (therefore born in about 1905).
                Message 7 of 7 , Dec 31, 2005
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                  Noel Clukies ("Musician, Nightclub") was enumerated for the 1930 Census at 742 St Nicholas Avenue, New York. He was aged 25 (therefore born in about 1905). Noel was born in New York to parents from the British West Indies. Consuelo Stephens, 18, from Haiti, female, was a lodger with the family, and may have been a sexual relation. Spelling perhaps should be Consuela.

                  Henry Jones, 21 ("Musician, Club") lived in the same building. He was born in Alabama, as were his parents.

                  Happy New Year to all.

                  Bob

                  Howard Rye <howard@...> wrote:
                  on 31/12/05 10:10, Michael Rader at Rader.Michael@... wrote:

                  > There's a note on this recording in the booklet coming with Frog DGF37 (Shake
                  > 'em Up by Clarence Williams). In this, Richard Rains states that part of the
                  > Jimmy Wade band was brought in for the session with "Red Hot Flo". This would
                  > indicate that the violin player is Eddie South and the clarinet player (most
                  > likely) Arnett Nelson or (possibly) Vernon Roulette. I don't know whence this
                  > wisdom, since Rains doesn't state any sources. The closest recordings in time
                  > known to be Wade are an April 5 1927 session.

                  Most theories about the presence of Arnett Nelson on records originate with
                  the late Ernest Virgo, who was capable of hearing virtually any unknown
                  clarinettist as Nelson! The Wade band has probably been imported as a back
                  formation from this. Tom Lord's Clarence Williams simply says that the
                  cornet IS Ed Allen and that is what all previous informed listeners had
                  heard.

                  Compare South's playing on OKeh 8407 and forget that possibility anyway.
                  Forget Edgar Sampson too! Howard Nelson is named as the violinist
                  essentially because he is known (from Clarence I think) to be on some
                  Williams sides from this period. As these would be his only records there is
                  nothing to compare them with. He used to be named also for Eva's Columbia
                  14296-D, but file data names this violinist (not a hot player) as Noel
                  Clukies.

                  There is no personnel information on the file cards for 80739/40.

                  Happy New Year to you too.

                  Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                  howard@...
                  Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098






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