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Re: [RedHotJazz] Re: Fud Livingston

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  • Andrew Homzy
    Dear Dave, A belated thanks for your reply. I gave Cecil Taylor every opportunity to reach me. For that kind of approach, I prefer Luciano Berio - who has
    Message 1 of 17 , Oct 26, 2005
      Dear Dave,

      A belated thanks for your reply.

      I gave Cecil Taylor every opportunity to reach me. For that kind of
      approach, I prefer Luciano Berio - who has really studied composition.

      I did know that Boland had died. He was a friend of mine.

      Andrew Homzy, Montréal

      > From: "David N. Lewis" <udtv@...>
      > Reply-To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 13:35:19 +0000
      > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Fud Livingston
      > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Homzy <homzy@v...> wrote:
      >> Dear RHJers,
      >> To me, a real jazz composer is someone capable of orchestrating
      > their own
      >> pieces. While Armstrong, for instance, wrote some great tunes, I
      > wouldn't
      >> call him a composer as I would Morton, or Ellington or Nesbitt.
      > Andrew,
      > While it is straying a bit from the topic of the list, you bring up
      > some interesting points about the "jazz composer." I don't think by
      > anyone's standards that King Oliver would not be considered a jazz
      > composer, yet I have yet to see any real acknowledgement of his
      > facility in this realm in the form of a comprehensive worklist or
      > study, such as I have seen for Morton. Although I have yet to deliver
      > the goods, I have been asked to replace the AMG bio for Bud Powell,
      > partly on the strength that the original author stated that Powell's
      > work as a composer was less than significant. I challenged that point
      > and discovered that Powell has about sixty compositions to his
      > credit - nearly as many as Monk - and that pieces like "Parisian
      > Thoroughfare" have been recorded dozens of times by all kinds of
      > artists.
      > In classical, we don't have any problem accepting Robert Wylkinson as
      > a composer, even though he has only two extant pieces and a fragment
      > of a third. The two whole works we have of Wylkinson constitute the
      > largest and most ambitious pieces in the Old Hall Manuscript. He is
      > a "composer" despite his dearth of work as he comes from such a
      > remote time, from which we have so little music, that what exists is
      > sufficient and has a recognozable character. What was published in
      > the 1910s and 1920s in terms of jazz compositions represents only the
      > tip of the iceberg, and if there are sizable manuscript caches of
      > pieces that did not appear on print, in a copyright deposit or on
      > record I don't know of them except in a very few cases: Morton, James
      > P. Johnson, Luckey Roberts. Some of this music is actually concert
      > music that contains a jazz influence, but is not specifically "jazz"
      > on its own.
      > So is it plausible to extend the designation "composer" to a jazz
      > musician from the 1910s, 1920s or 1930s who only has a few
      > compositions on the basis of significance of a given work, or do we
      > need more? Is Bix Beiderbecke acceptable as a "composer" based only
      > on five works? What is a jazz composer? Incidentally, I have heard
      > the long piece "Communications" written by Micheal Mantler and
      > recorded in 1968 by the Jazz Composer's Orchestra Alliance, featuring
      > pianist Cecil Taylor, several times over the past thirty years, and
      > have NEVER heard anything in it that would suggest a composer at
      > work. What am I missing?
      > Incidentally, I read this morning on a German news website that a
      > true jazz composer, Francy Boland, died in Bruxelles Saturday at the
      > age of 75.
      > Uncle Dave Lewis
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
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