Re: [RedHotJazz] Re: Fud Livingston
- Dear Dave,
A belated thanks for your reply.
I gave Cecil Taylor every opportunity to reach me. For that kind of
approach, I prefer Luciano Berio - who has really studied composition.
I did know that Boland had died. He was a friend of mine.
Andrew Homzy, Montréal
> From: "David N. Lewis" <udtv@...>
> Reply-To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 13:35:19 +0000
> To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Fud Livingston
> --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Homzy <homzy@v...> wrote:
>> Dear RHJers,
>> To me, a real jazz composer is someone capable of orchestrating
> their own
>> pieces. While Armstrong, for instance, wrote some great tunes, I
>> call him a composer as I would Morton, or Ellington or Nesbitt.
> While it is straying a bit from the topic of the list, you bring up
> some interesting points about the "jazz composer." I don't think by
> anyone's standards that King Oliver would not be considered a jazz
> composer, yet I have yet to see any real acknowledgement of his
> facility in this realm in the form of a comprehensive worklist or
> study, such as I have seen for Morton. Although I have yet to deliver
> the goods, I have been asked to replace the AMG bio for Bud Powell,
> partly on the strength that the original author stated that Powell's
> work as a composer was less than significant. I challenged that point
> and discovered that Powell has about sixty compositions to his
> credit - nearly as many as Monk - and that pieces like "Parisian
> Thoroughfare" have been recorded dozens of times by all kinds of
> In classical, we don't have any problem accepting Robert Wylkinson as
> a composer, even though he has only two extant pieces and a fragment
> of a third. The two whole works we have of Wylkinson constitute the
> largest and most ambitious pieces in the Old Hall Manuscript. He is
> a "composer" despite his dearth of work as he comes from such a
> remote time, from which we have so little music, that what exists is
> sufficient and has a recognozable character. What was published in
> the 1910s and 1920s in terms of jazz compositions represents only the
> tip of the iceberg, and if there are sizable manuscript caches of
> pieces that did not appear on print, in a copyright deposit or on
> record I don't know of them except in a very few cases: Morton, James
> P. Johnson, Luckey Roberts. Some of this music is actually concert
> music that contains a jazz influence, but is not specifically "jazz"
> on its own.
> So is it plausible to extend the designation "composer" to a jazz
> musician from the 1910s, 1920s or 1930s who only has a few
> compositions on the basis of significance of a given work, or do we
> need more? Is Bix Beiderbecke acceptable as a "composer" based only
> on five works? What is a jazz composer? Incidentally, I have heard
> the long piece "Communications" written by Micheal Mantler and
> recorded in 1968 by the Jazz Composer's Orchestra Alliance, featuring
> pianist Cecil Taylor, several times over the past thirty years, and
> have NEVER heard anything in it that would suggest a composer at
> work. What am I missing?
> Incidentally, I read this morning on a German news website that a
> true jazz composer, Francy Boland, died in Bruxelles Saturday at the
> age of 75.
> Uncle Dave Lewis
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