Re: [RedHotJazz] JSP. Was Walter Bennett (yet again)
- Hi Dave,
Good to see you here.
> Stealing is stealing.The solution here would be for the "cheap" labels to come to some kind of royalty arrangement with the people whose work they are using. In particular if they are run by collectors. I don't know Stedman at all, but have seen some fairly negative opinions on Blues lists.
> >A question that does come up is if everyone buying JSP or Proper boxes would
> >have bought the more expensive original sets and the answer is almost
> >certainly no. Also, to be fair to JSP; they do not usually copy the complete
> >sets, so that real collectors are unlikely to opt for them, given the choice.
> Stealing is still stealing--no legitimate justification for it.
> I bought the Milton Brown ProperBox before knowing they'd ripped it off
> from JOL. I also bought the Bob Wills and Western Swing boxes, and several
> others, explicitly because the cheap price enabled me to explore music I
> would not otherwise have bought.
The problem is that whole sets or the best part of them have been ripped off. If they were just samplers with reference to the originals
> My rule with Classics, which also pirates freely, is to see if the music isThe particular problem with JSP is that they built up a good reputation, based on their early boxes (Hot Fives and Sevens, Morton, Mills Brothers, Django Volume 1, Calloway) and that people expect them to be well restored, based on original work by John RT Davies or Ted Kendall. I have no idea what they have been using for some of their latest boxes: I bought the Paramount Masters and (at least) one track has a most disturbing "pre-echo" which can only be from an LP. There is a rumour that they used Document for their Blind Blake and Blind Lemon sets, which would really be stooping low, since Johnny Parth was an old rogue (but well loved) who used virtually any source.
> available legitimately before buying.
The situation is even more complicated than you believe, since copyright protection in the US theroretically extends to 2056 on *any* recording. That means virtually anything you might have in your collection is illegal, unless it was issued by Sony, BMG or the other biggies. This has to do with your Federal constitution in the US, where this is subject to individual state legislation. People always deplore the situation in Europe, but the US is sometimes even worse.
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- Hi Patrice,
> I can't remember if you're also on the pre-war-blues group but youmight find some discussion about the Revenant/JSP topic there (at
least if you're patient enough to search the archives;)<
I am, but I'm new there as well, but I'll certainly check the
To be honest, I don't always know what is legit JSP or Properbox, and
what isn't. And I certainly wouldn't want to put anyone off buying
that which either company (or anyone else) has purchased and
But I do get to be worried when small labels like Frog and Origin
find their market and their earnings reduced by non-legitimate
copyists. It damages them and if such companies are forced out of
business, or forced to reduce their output, it damages us. Perhaps
there's a service there, which we could do for each other, and for
genuine record companies, in blowing the whistle on this and other
boards, whenever we encounter examples of piracy.
In any event, the JSP Patton set was too hard faced for words.
Unlike, one presumes, some of JSP's other releases, the ink was
barely dry on the Revenant set before JSP had their rip off copy on
the record racks. There are a lot of things which I don't like about
the Revenant. In fact, when I reviewed it, I was tempted to dismiss
the whole thing as pretentious tosh. I didn't because it was put
together with the best of intentions, by a group of lifelong Patton
enthusiasts, whose last conceivable consideration was, presumably,
how much money they could make out of the product. For those reasons,
it deserves to be left alone.
Incidentally, I don't know what the situation is in other countries.
However, as far as I can gather, this kind of copying is not illegal
in Britain, as long as the material is out of copyright. Does anyone
know any different ?
I can't say I've heard of Langel, but it certainly sounds one to
> I'm not sure this is completely off-topic, if it is I'm sure a*reasonable* amount of off-topic stuff does no harm, but if I
understand you rightly you think it would be a correct attitude
to "avoid" JSP releases, and I cannot
> completely agree.publicly
> I mean, everyone is perfectly entitled to start a crusade and
> mention illegal behaviours, butan
> - I'm not sure this would be more efficient than trying to boycott
> international company whose policy is a crime against the humanrace or the
> future of the planet (maybe that would mean boycotting them all ;)small
> - I do not think the whole staff who works for one of the rare and
> companies who bother making pre-war recordings available to us isproblem,
> responsible for pirating other's material.
> - As long as there are laws that enable companies to solve the
> the customer who is lucky to find such material at acould have
> reasonable price has no reason to feel personally guilty. If I
> afforded the Revenant box (a superb object, Robert Sacré showed itto me
> when I visited him in Liège) I wouldn't have bought the cheap-looking
> Pattons instead, but the fact is that some JSP box sets can befound in some
> large records shops, even in France, at an affordable price (unlikeimported
> Yazoo's) and this is less of a mind pollution than the majority ofwhat is
> usually filed under "blues";)a "category of
> Incidentally, this reminds me that I do not consider blues as
> jazz" and makes me wonder if a book written by René Langel(originally
> tiltled "Le Jazz orphelin de l'Afrique") has been translated intoEnglish.
> It's great food for thought, the largest collection ofmisunderstanding,
> faked arguments and comtempt for early jazz I've ever read!