Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

9414Re: [RedHotJazz] Lucille Bogan & Charles Avery

Expand Messages
  • Howard Rye
    Jan 26, 2013
      The wrong matrix number was simply an (obvious) typo in the 3rd edition
      (mine I¹m afraid, not spotted by our two eminent proof-readers). It is
      correct in the 2nd edition, as well as the 4th. Doesn¹t seem worth checking
      the 1st edition. (Be interested to know where else the ³EVERYWHERE² is
      because it is prima facie proof of uncritical copying, which is of course
      endemic in discography, but in this case mindless as the typo is so obvious.
      If only people copied my corrections as enthusiastically as they copy and
      castigate my typos. Sigh!)

      I¹ll check to see whether there is any file data on the pianist. The naming
      of Avery goes back to B&GR1. Jazz Directory has only a collective personnel
      for the Brunswicks and it looks as though Orin Blackstone didn¹t know about

      I think you will listen in vain for an alternative take on Roots RL317. They
      were working from tapes not 78s and simply and carelessly quoted the first
      matrix number they came to, 5347, rather than the correct 5547, or maybe
      it¹s just a typo, and they always really knew they were issuing 5547 (This
      was checked aurally long ago and there is a note to this effect in B&GR4)

      on 26/01/2013 08:35, Bob Eagle at prof_hi_jinx@... wrote:

      > Dave, the first thing to say is that you must be using an old edition of B&GR
      > - B&GR4 has the correct mx.
      > That said, I agree that the pianist is not Avery. I doubt that Lucille is the
      > player, because of timing issues, although her son and his best friend both
      > said she could play piano - they just don't sound self-accompanied.
      > One "Smith" shares composer credits on "Black Angel", which may be a hint.
      > However, there is another issue. To my ears, the pianist on "Whiskey Selling
      > Woman" (C-5548) is different again - great left hand, interesting and variable
      > right, far more swinging than either Avery or the later pianist. If it *is*
      > Avery, he's playing way above himself!
      > I'm tempted to say Bill O'Bryant, who recorded an excellent title with Tampa
      > Red at about this time, but there are differences. Nevertheless, it is a
      > forward-thinking accompaniment, hinting at what Maceo would later do.
      > Lucille had to wait for Walter Roland to find a better accompanist - unless it
      > is a young Roland! Lucille was living in Chicago at this time, and (so far at
      > least) there is no evidence that Roland left Alabama.
      > Bob
      > ________________________________
      > From: Uncle Dave udtv@... <mailto:udtv%40yahoo.com> >
      > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Saturday, 26 January 2013 6:09 PM
      > Subject: [RedHotJazz] Lucille Bogan & Charles Avery
      > I was checking into the Charles Avery-accompanied Lucille Bogan records. The
      > Godrich and Dixon data on these is FUBAR'ed: the right mx. on "Alley Boogie"
      > which is C-5563; G&D lists it as "C-6653" and that false number persists
      > EVERYWHERE. Ross Laird's "Brunswick Records: A Discography of Recordings
      > 1916-1931 v3. Chicago and Regional Sessions" provides the right matrix and
      > clears up a lot of the errors relating to these dates.
      > Charles Avery has a very recognizable style within barrelhouse piano; it is
      > sweeping, gracious and betrays at the back of it a hint of what may have been
      > some measure of formal training. And I agree that it is Avery on the March
      > 1930 Bogans, at least C-5547 through C-5550. But as to C-5562, C-5563 and the
      > December session consisting of C-6845 through C-6848, I think these are all
      > the same pianist, and it's not Charles Avery.
      > Max Haymes, on a website dated 2001, suggest that C-6847 is either "Eddie
      > Miller or prob. Frank 'Springback' James." I don't know where he is redacting
      > that from or if he came up with the attribution on his own, but I don't agree
      > with it. I'm pretty certain that all of these accompaniments are supplied by
      > Lucille Bogan herself. The playing is decent, but not typically the work of a
      > professional accompanist. Bogan was an accomplished songwriter and probably
      > could play well enough herself to demonstrate her songs to better players or
      > to handle her own accompaniments in situations where she didn't have anyone to
      > back her. To my ears, that's what's going on -- it is the elementary playing
      > of a singer following along with her own vocal line, not of a professional
      > pianist hired to accompany a well-known singer like Bogan. There is a short
      > bar -- actually two bars that
      > have a short beat between them, I'm not sure where yet -- which occurs in
      > C-5563 and in one of the accompaniments in the C-6845 to 48 group. It's
      > exactly the same figure in both, and I'm pretty sure Avery would not have
      > clipped off the beat as it is an amateurish feature alien to his basic style.
      > Laird's work establishes that C-5562 and C-5563 are from a wholly seperate
      > occasion as C-5547 through C-5550. G&D makes this look as though all of these
      > masters belong to the same session, but the Laird discography shows that quite
      > a bit went on between C-5550 and C-5562, including several whole sessions
      > unrelated to Bogan.
      > Has anyone a perspective on this? The full on Brunswick ledger stops just
      > before this period commences, and the only register extant for 1930-31
      > Brunswick are a couple of loose, barely filled in sheets. I feel that by
      > adding the word "unknown" to the descriptor "vocal with piano" we may have
      > missed out on what that information was trying to tell us?
      > Agree? Disagree? All of these except "Dirty Treatin' Blues" may be found on
      > Lucille Bogan's page on redhotjazz.com
      > And if anyone has the Roots LP RL317 ("Lucille Bogan 1930-1935") I'f love to
      > hear the alternate of "My Georgia Grind."
      > thanks,
      > Uncle Dave Lewis
      > Lebanon, OH
      > Godrich & Dixon pp.98-99
      > Acc. unknown, p.
      > Chicago c. 1 February 1930
      > C-5547- My Georgia Grind Br unissued, Roots RL317 (LP)
      > C-5548- Whiskey Selling WOman Br unissued
      > C-5549- They Ain't Walking No More Br unissued
      > Acc. Charles Avery, p.
      > Chicago late March 1930
      > C-5547- My Georgia Grind Br 7145
      > C-5548- Whiskey Selling WOman Br 7145
      > C-5549- They Ain't Walking No More Br 7163
      > C-5550- Dirty Treatin' Blues Br 7163
      > C-5562-A Sloppy Drunk Blues Br 7210, Ba 32390, Me M12484, Or 8122, Pe 198, Ro
      > 5122
      > C-6653-A Alley Boogie Br 7210, Ba 32390, Me M12484, Or 8122, Pe 198, Ro 5122
      > Banner, Melotone, Oriole, Perfect, and Romeo issues as by Bessie Jackson.
      > Acc. unknown, p.
      > Chicago c. mid-December 1930
      > C-6845- Crawlin' Lizard Blues Br 7193
      > C-6846- Struttin' My Stuff Br 7193
      > C-6847-A Black Angel Blues Br 7186, Ba 32389, Or 8121, Pe 197, Ro 5121
      > C-6848-A Tricks Ain't Walking No More Br 7186, Ba 32389, Or 8121, Pe 197, Ro
      > 5121
      > Banner, Melotone, Oriole, Perfect, and Romeo issues as by Bessie Jackson.
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
      Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Show all 10 messages in this topic