6066Re: [RedHotJazz] Re: Dodds with Oliver
- Jul 18, 2008My conclusion when I did a piece on the Dodds alternative takes for Names &
Numbers 28 was as follows:
Little Bits E-3164¹ on Neatwork RP2012; E-3165¹ on Timeless CBC1015
These are almost certainly not real alternative takes, which may account for
the omission of E-3164¹ from the Timeless set, and the dubbing by Neatwork
from an old Decca or MCA issue with howling echo. (If anyone thinks they can
hear a difference, perhaps they will report.)
This does not of course prove that there may not be a real alternative take
extant. The Oriole 1000 Series listing in Storyville 6 claims E-3164 on
Oriole 1008. In Storyville 62, Dolf Rerink reported a copy of Vocalion 1035
showing 64¹ in the wax and that this was aurally different from the dubbing
on Biltmore 1088. For the moment I cannot resolve this and do not have two
takes which sound distinct to me.
No reports have been received to amplify or clarify this.
I would add that long experience (aided no doubt by advancing age,
cantakerousness, and probably arrogance and indifference to other people¹s
opinions) have made me deeply suspicious of people who assure one that takes
sound distinct unless they actually tell you what the distinctions are. I
have never knowingly heard the Biltmore dub but I have heard quite enough
dubbings to know that they can easily sound distinct as a result of the
dubbing process while actually being musically identical. As for relying on
timings, well I lost that degree of faith in record companies, not to
mention the domestic tape recorders used in many collector issues, long
before the advancing age, etc. kicked in!
If anyone wants to know, here are identifying differences for Struggling:
Struggling E-3166 & E-3167 on Timeless CBC1015
First washboard break:
E-3166 12 raps.
E-3167 10 raps, falling into a distinct 4 + 6 pattern.
So you can be sure these really are different and don¹t just ³sound
distinct² to someone.
on 18/07/2008 04:56, spacelights at spacelights@... wrote:
>Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
> The identification could come from Klaus-Uwe's Dodds discography
> (which you mention elsewhere in this thread), as he has "poss. Joe
> Oliver" for the Bertrand session of 16 September.
> In 'Dave Nelson and Others', Christopher Hillman and Roy Middleton
> list an italicised Dave Nelson. A problem with identifying Nelson is
> that none of his early (Chicago) recordings are confirmed for comparison.
> Incidentally, Rust shows an alternative of Bertrand's earlier "Little
> Bits"--E-3165--as issued (and reissued). Is this accurate?
> --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Michael Rader" <Rader.Michael@...>
>> > There is a Finnish website devoted to Johnny Dodds, which, among other
>> > things, has a Dodds discography:
>> > http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/renko/jdoddsx.htm
>> > The personnel for the Bertrand's Washboard Wizards session of 17
>> > September 1926 (I think - the date is in unfamiliar notation for me)
>> > lists Oliver (presumably Joe)instead of Miller (presumably Punch)in an
>> > older version.
>> > Apart from the proximity to the Oliver "Someday Sweetheart" sessions,
>> > does anyone know the reason for the change? Opinions on the
>> > identification are also welcome.
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