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Re: [RawPortland] 2 questions:

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  • Celeste Crimi
    Dear Christine, There are probably just as many answers to your questions as there are members of this forum! I try to go with my own instincts as much as
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 7 11:09 PM
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      Dear Christine,
       
      There are probably just as many answers to your questions as there are members of this forum!
       
      I try to go with my own instincts as much as possible for 'grey areas.'
       
      So, my personal answers, that at least work for me are:
       
      'Raw' agave nectar doesn't seem truly raw to me.  It just doesn't feel that way.  I got some, thinking it was, and by the time the container was gone, I just felt that it wasn't.  I use date, raisin, or banana as sweeteners...they have the side benefit of offering fiber to slow the sweetness down in the system.  But then, I hear from some that these sweeteners have too high of a glycemic index for them.  So, I say to go with what feels best to you.   After a time (again, varies per individual) on 100% raw, or really really close, you will develop a much keener ability to determine how different foods make you feel (forgive me if you've already been 100% for a time--I don't mean to sound patronizing).  I don't happen to eat honey because I'm vegan.  I'm not so much worried about the exploitation of bees, but the abuse of bees.  Other people have made different choices that work for them.
       
      Again, with the Clorox issue...my sense of smell has become excruciatingly acute after 3 yrs on a 100% raw diet.  This keeps me safe in many ways (helps me keep my distance from smells that are harmful).   I can detect not only chemicals on or in food or its packaging, but whether or not there is any other reason that a food is not begging to be eaten. 
       
      In other words, maybe an apple is organic and a delicious variety...but that individual fruit is still green (unripe).  Then she just won't smell as delicious as her brother who was maybe in a sunnier spot on the tree and is further along in his maturation process.  Or maybe two avocadoes are both ripe, but one has started to go rancid inside (rancidity has an odor).  Even if they're in a sealed bag, nuts and other produce have an odor.  Here's my point:  That when I'm traveling or something and certified organic food isn't available, and I'm not able to bring my own food with me, then I make the best selection from what is available.  And a lot of my decision is based on how something smells. Yes, it may look funny but that is how I do my shopping...I let my nose guide me to a display of produce, then bring each piece up near my nose, putting the rejects back down again!
       
      Super-waxed food is usually out because its odor is masked/tainted.  Big, cellulose-y produce is out because, again, the smell doesn't entice.  There is usually something that smells good in almost every grocery store (except convenience stores).  And when I'm on the road I try to balance out any non-organic produce by eating weeds and other delights such as grass, clover or flowers as much as possible.  They are, in my experience, more life-giving even than cultivated, certified organic foods. 
       
      So, I find using chemicals to rid food of chemicals isn't necessary if a more body-based decision is made.  My experience has been that no amount of rinsing is sufficient to truly do away with bleach residue.   I hope the above makes sense!  My idea is to replace the need for chemical washes by selecting food that doesn't have a large toxic load to begin with.
       
      Celeste Crimi
      Beaverton
       
       
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 2:12 PM
      Subject: [RawPortland] 2 questions:

      1) i heard that raw agave nectar (like the kind sold in bulk at people's) is
      not really raw. what is the truth?


      2) i read ffrom 2 separate sources that the best way to deal with
      non-organic produce is to soak it in clorox bleach, then in pure water -
      which helps remove not only chemicals and dirt, but helps the veggies and
      fruits have a longer shelf life. both sources seem like reputable sources.
      but this sounds crazy to me! i hardly ever even use non-chlorine bleach - i
      could imagine using the chlorinated one for my produce. any insight on this?

      thanks
      :)



    • Chris McDaniel
      G Day All I wanted to address a topic that has been referenced on this list recently: Should I feel guilty for buying honey? I assumed that honey was
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 8 1:30 AM
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        G'Day All

        I wanted to address a topic that has been referenced on this list recently:

        Should I feel guilty for buying honey? I assumed that honey was
        non-exploitive (well, other than producers providing the optimum environment
        for honey production).

        I would appreciate your views....

        Moony
      • Celeste Crimi
        Dear Moony, Thank you for asking! Like so many other questions, it s up for debate. It also seems like there s more than one answer. For example, many
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 10 9:29 AM
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          Dear Moony,
           
          Thank you for asking!  Like so many other questions, it's up for debate.  It also seems like there's more than one answer.  For example, many honeys are not raw, even though they say 'raw honey'--it's like 'Sugar in the Raw' is also not raw.  Honey is often steamed to remove 'possibly harmful' organisms.  You know the USDA and FDA's motto, "Better dead than sorry!"  :)
           
          On a side note, their little legs are often ripped off during bee pollen harvesting methods.  :(
           
          It appears that not all beekeepers use the questionable methods described below, and also offer truly raw honey.  The task is to ask around directly to beekeepers, and then feel you can trust their answers.
           
          No matter the methods, it takes one bee its entire lifetime to make 1 teaspoon of honey. 
           
          My personal choice, as I've already mentioned, is to forego honey consumption, since the alternatives are so delicious, in favor of veganism.  Others may make other choices that make sense for them.  Also, it's all a continuum.  For example, when I first 'went raw' I craved a raw diet with as few restrictions as possible--if I'd tried to be too Spartan I might have fallen 'off the wagon' and gone back to cooked.  I was a good 6 months on raw before I became ready to hear what others in books, online, and at the Int'l Raw & Living Foods Festival were really saying about beekeeping and the questionable rawness of most commercially available honey.  At that time I decided to 'just try' exclusively using other sweeteners instead, and found that I was happy with them and haven't felt the need to use honey since.  But, maybe my palate had changed in those first 6 months of raw, to appreciate other sweeteners, such as dates or raisins.  Maybe If I'd gone 'cold turkey' to raw AND vegan it would have been too much and I wouldn't have been able to stick with it.  Do you see what I mean?  So, that's why I say we should be easy on ourselves and others, too.  Only each individual knows what they're ready to achieve.
           
          Celeste Crimi
          Beaverton

          -Honey-

          Just like factory farmers, several bee keepers obtain honey by using cruel methods, so that production quotas may be met. It isn't uncommon for the larger producers of honey to sever the queen bee's wings, so that she will not be able to leave the colony. They also may artificially inseminated, on the "rape rack", a bee-sized version of the factory farm. When the keeper wants to take a queen to a new colony, she is escorted with "bodyguard" bees, all of whom -- if they make it through transport -- will be killed by bees in the new colony.

          Also, big commercial operations may take all of the honey, when they are supposed to leave 60 pounds or so of it, the amount of honey that the bees need to get through the winter. Instead of leaving any honey, the give the bees the rich honey with a cheap sugar substitute that is not as tasty or fortifying. In areas that are colder, if the beekeepers believe that it is too costly to let the bees live through the winter-time, they will douse the hives with gasoline, destroying the hives and killing several of the bees with the gas fumes, and then they set the hive on fire. Other times, the keepers, who feel that bees that are lost can be replaced with ease, let them die when insecticide is sprayed on tree. Bees are often killed, or their legs and wings torn off by haphazard handling.

          To make just one pound of honey, bees must obtain pollen from 2 million flowers, and must fly 55,000+ miles. Honeybees that return to the hive from a pollen-seeking expedition "dance" in figure eights, so that they can "map out" a route for other bees to follow. These dances "encode info about the distance and direction of a target that can be miles from the nest," Cornell University's Thomas D. Seely notes. According to the Cook-DuPage Beekeepers' Association, people have been using honey since around 15,000 B.C., although humans didn't turn beekeeping into a factory farm until the 20th century. In 1987, the honey "crop" netted about $115.4,000,000.00. Luckily for cruelty-free shoppers, several sweeteners are made without killing bees: molasses, sorghum, maple syrup, dried fruit, barley malt, and rice syrup, or fruit concentrate, can replace honey in recopies. These substitutes can keep you on the road to a bee-free, bee-friendly diet.

          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 1:30 AM
          Subject: [RawPortland] Beez abuze

          G'Day All

          I wanted to address a topic that has been referenced on this list recently:

          Should I feel guilty for buying honey?  I assumed that honey was
          non-exploitive (well, other than producers providing the optimum environment
          for honey production).

          I would appreciate your views....

          Moony
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