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RE: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism

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  • Margie
    As a medical professional I can tell you all right now that the majority of doctors and nurses refuse all vaccines. Why? Vaccination is NOT immunization. We
    Message 1 of 24 , Feb 21 10:36 AM
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      As a medical professional I can tell you all right now that the majority of doctors and nurses refuse all vaccines. Why? Vaccination is NOT immunization. We were not created in the image of an idiot therefore our design is perfect. Unfortunately, as we looked for a way to avoid responsibility for our health, the powers to be came up with a 'solution.' As long as we believe that there are 'experts' more knowledgeable than God humanity will always experience disease and decay. Thank you for the opportunity to express my opinion. 

      --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Constance Rojo <constance.rojo@...> wrote:

      From: Constance Rojo <constance.rojo@...>
      Subject: RE: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
      To: RawPortland@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 8:49 AM

       

      All should be welcome unless extremely rude.  And a lively discussion with different views is not extremely rude.

       

      From: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:RawPortland @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of sunnymilanna
      Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:54 AM
      To: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com
      Subject: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism

       

       

      What in the world are you doing here in the RAW group??? The people here believe in eating RAW and the 'miracles' (which really aren't miracles because the healing is understandable once you understand how eating RAW can heal) it can perform, which includes actually HEALING people as well as preventing illnesses/diseases from happening to the body that ingests raw food over a period of time.

      It would be wiser for you to remain silent while you listen and learn. I really don't appreciate how you have attacked Nora just for her raising the issue of Autism and vaccinations. Just ONE child developing Autism from vaccinations is not okay.

      Plus, it has been posted every year nationally the huge numbers of people that die from prescription drugs and even from being in the hospital which are much, much higher numbers of people than those who have died from 'natural medicine', which are very, very few.

      This group is for people who believe in eating RAW and who are learning how to...I am very offended by your attitde and would prefer that you leave this group.

      Aimee

      --- In RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com, Cori Barth <cmbbarth@...> wrote:
      >
      > I don't think you are as informed as you'd like to be.  Sure, production of medication is about money.  However, you can't deny the evidence of the good vaccines have done- you are simply pretending that there never were massive amounts of death attributed to measles, mumps and rubella.  I don't wish to change your beliefs, but please don't try and misguide people with unfounded thoughts.  Everyone should weigh the pro's and cons of vaccinations, then choose what they wish.  On a sidenote- I do believe that vaccines can sometimes illicit allergic responses in children- however, those responses can be triggered by environmental chemicals as well- more money needs to be spent finding out what the stimuli is, and what factors make some children more susceptible than others. "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"?
      >
      > --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...>
      > Subject: Re: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
      > To: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com
      > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:36 PM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > 
      >
      >
      > Mike,
      > You'll find lots of studies supporting
      > vaccination.  The only thing any of them "proves" is that money buys
      > studies.  There is no money to be made in proving vaccines are
      > harmful.  If this was not the case, we wouldn't be having this discussion
      > because the truth would be widely known and vaccination would long ago have been
      > discarded.  Vaccination is not about human health, it's about money. 
      >
      >  
      > Generally, the mainstream press (including The
      > Lancet and Time Magazine) is not a reliable source of truthful information
      > about health (among other topics).  That's why I was pleasantly surprised
      > to see that the interview I posted was produced by a mainstream media
      > outlet.  With all that money at stake, the truth is still getting
      > out.  Unfortunately it has to become really obvious before that can happen,
      > which means lots of harm to lots of children.   
      >  
      > Best wishes,
      > Nora
      >  
      >  
      >  
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      > Here is a quote from an article in Time magazine:
      > http://www.time. com/time/ magazine/ article/0, 9171,1003673, 00.html
      >


    • Cori Barth
      Again, I am not saying that everyone should feel one way or the other- just be informed.  Eating a raw diet CAN make wonderful things happen in our bodies,
      Message 2 of 24 , Feb 21 10:51 AM
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        Again, I am not saying that everyone should feel one way or the other- just be informed.  Eating a raw diet CAN make wonderful things happen in our bodies, but sometimes traditional medicine can be beneficial.  I don't get flu shots, don't take anti-biotics, and still am undecided as to whether or not I would vaccinate a child if I had one.  However, I do get a yearly mammogram, a papsmear, and encourage men to have prostate checks.  There is no harm in being informed about what is going on in our bodies, and if we find disease, at least we are able to target it through diet.  I am on this site because I eat a raw diet.  No more, no less.  I haven't attacked anyone, I have just stated and restated that I think people need to be informed.  Just one child developing autism from vaccines isn't ok, but if we just assume it's the vaccines instead of something else (environment that is extremely toxic, soil that is tainted, etc) then we may be doing ourselves an injustice.  Just as it is not ok for a child to get autism from a vaccine, I believe it is not ok for a child to get a deadly case of mumps, measles, or rubella from NOT getting vaccinated.  It's just a differing of opinion.  I have read several interviews of Noras, and find her very intelligent and informed.  However, I disagree with her on this one issue.  If disagreeing with someone is the same as attacking them, I guess we who have raw diets are attacking people every time we defend our belief.  Nora- Sorry if I worded things in a way that seemed mean.  I didn't mean to, and I value the fact that our opinions can differ.

        --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Constance Rojo <constance.rojo@...> wrote:

        From: Constance Rojo <constance.rojo@...>
        Subject: RE: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
        To: RawPortland@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 8:49 AM

         

        All should be welcome unless extremely rude.  And a lively discussion with different views is not extremely rude.

         

        From: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:RawPortland @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of sunnymilanna
        Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:54 AM
        To: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism

         

         

        What in the world are you doing here in the RAW group??? The people here believe in eating RAW and the 'miracles' (which really aren't miracles because the healing is understandable once you understand how eating RAW can heal) it can perform, which includes actually HEALING people as well as preventing illnesses/diseases from happening to the body that ingests raw food over a period of time.

        It would be wiser for you to remain silent while you listen and learn. I really don't appreciate how you have attacked Nora just for her raising the issue of Autism and vaccinations. Just ONE child developing Autism from vaccinations is not okay.

        Plus, it has been posted every year nationally the huge numbers of people that die from prescription drugs and even from being in the hospital which are much, much higher numbers of people than those who have died from 'natural medicine', which are very, very few.

        This group is for people who believe in eating RAW and who are learning how to...I am very offended by your attitde and would prefer that you leave this group.

        Aimee

        --- In RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com, Cori Barth <cmbbarth@...> wrote:
        >
        > I don't think you are as informed as you'd like to be.  Sure, production of medication is about money.  However, you can't deny the evidence of the good vaccines have done- you are simply pretending that there never were massive amounts of death attributed to measles, mumps and rubella.  I don't wish to change your beliefs, but please don't try and misguide people with unfounded thoughts.  Everyone should weigh the pro's and cons of vaccinations, then choose what they wish.  On a sidenote- I do believe that vaccines can sometimes illicit allergic responses in children- however, those responses can be triggered by environmental chemicals as well- more money needs to be spent finding out what the stimuli is, and what factors make some children more susceptible than others. "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"?
        >
        > --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...>
        > Subject: Re: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
        > To: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com
        > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:36 PM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 
        >
        >
        > Mike,
        > You'll find lots of studies supporting
        > vaccination.  The only thing any of them "proves" is that money buys
        > studies.  There is no money to be made in proving vaccines are
        > harmful.  If this was not the case, we wouldn't be having this discussion
        > because the truth would be widely known and vaccination would long ago have been
        > discarded.  Vaccination is not about human health, it's about money. 
        >
        >  
        > Generally, the mainstream press (including The
        > Lancet and Time Magazine) is not a reliable source of truthful information
        > about health (among other topics).  That's why I was pleasantly surprised
        > to see that the interview I posted was produced by a mainstream media
        > outlet.  With all that money at stake, the truth is still getting
        > out.  Unfortunately it has to become really obvious before that can happen,
        > which means lots of harm to lots of children.   
        >  
        > Best wishes,
        > Nora
        >  
        >  
        >  
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        > Here is a quote from an article in Time magazine:
        > http://www.time. com/time/ magazine/ article/0, 9171,1003673, 00.html
        >


      • Cori Barth
        I believe that s true, yet others don t maintain their health the way we do- it s them that I worry about.  If I had a child who was dying of a low platelet
        Message 3 of 24 , Feb 21 10:55 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          I believe that's true, yet others don't maintain their health the way we do- it's them that I worry about.  If I had a child who was dying of a low platelet count or low rbc, I would transfuse them in an instance.  I respect your opinion, and agree that our bodied are designed very intelligently.

          --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Margie <marnacla@...> wrote:

          From: Margie <marnacla@...>
          Subject: RE: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
          To: RawPortland@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 10:36 AM

           

          As a medical professional I can tell you all right now that the majority of doctors and nurses refuse all vaccines. Why? Vaccination is NOT immunization. We were not created in the image of an idiot therefore our design is perfect. Unfortunately, as we looked for a way to avoid responsibility for our health, the powers to be came up with a 'solution.' As long as we believe that there are 'experts' more knowledgeable than God humanity will always experience disease and decay. Thank you for the opportunity to express my opinion. 

          --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Constance Rojo <constance.rojo@ comcast.net> wrote:

          From: Constance Rojo <constance.rojo@ comcast.net>
          Subject: RE: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
          To: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com
          Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 8:49 AM

           

          All should be welcome unless extremely rude.  And a lively discussion with different views is not extremely rude.

           

          From: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:RawPortland @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of sunnymilanna
          Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:54 AM
          To: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com
          Subject: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism

           

           

          What in the world are you doing here in the RAW group??? The people here believe in eating RAW and the 'miracles' (which really aren't miracles because the healing is understandable once you understand how eating RAW can heal) it can perform, which includes actually HEALING people as well as preventing illnesses/diseases from happening to the body that ingests raw food over a period of time.

          It would be wiser for you to remain silent while you listen and learn. I really don't appreciate how you have attacked Nora just for her raising the issue of Autism and vaccinations. Just ONE child developing Autism from vaccinations is not okay.

          Plus, it has been posted every year nationally the huge numbers of people that die from prescription drugs and even from being in the hospital which are much, much higher numbers of people than those who have died from 'natural medicine', which are very, very few.

          This group is for people who believe in eating RAW and who are learning how to...I am very offended by your attitde and would prefer that you leave this group.

          Aimee

          --- In RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com, Cori Barth <cmbbarth@...> wrote:
          >
          > I don't think you are as informed as you'd like to be.  Sure, production of medication is about money.  However, you can't deny the evidence of the good vaccines have done- you are simply pretending that there never were massive amounts of death attributed to measles, mumps and rubella.  I don't wish to change your beliefs, but please don't try and misguide people with unfounded thoughts.  Everyone should weigh the pro's and cons of vaccinations, then choose what they wish.  On a sidenote- I do believe that vaccines can sometimes illicit allergic responses in children- however, those responses can be triggered by environmental chemicals as well- more money needs to be spent finding out what the stimuli is, and what factors make some children more susceptible than others. "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"?
          >
          > --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...>
          > Subject: Re: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
          > To: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com
          > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:36 PM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > 
          >
          >
          > Mike,
          > You'll find lots of studies supporting
          > vaccination.  The only thing any of them "proves" is that money buys
          > studies.  There is no money to be made in proving vaccines are
          > harmful.  If this was not the case, we wouldn't be having this discussion
          > because the truth would be widely known and vaccination would long ago have been
          > discarded.  Vaccination is not about human health, it's about money. 
          >
          >  
          > Generally, the mainstream press (including The
          > Lancet and Time Magazine) is not a reliable source of truthful information
          > about health (among other topics).  That's why I was pleasantly surprised
          > to see that the interview I posted was produced by a mainstream media
          > outlet.  With all that money at stake, the truth is still getting
          > out.  Unfortunately it has to become really obvious before that can happen,
          > which means lots of harm to lots of children.   
          >  
          > Best wishes,
          > Nora
          >  
          >  
          >  
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          > Here is a quote from an article in Time magazine:
          > http://www.time. com/time/ magazine/ article/0, 9171,1003673, 00.html
          >



        • Cori Barth
          I love the fact that you have put so much thought into this.  Parents have to protect their children, and the fact that you don t want to do anything
          Message 4 of 24 , Feb 21 11:01 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            I love the fact that you have put so much thought into this.  Parents have to protect their children, and the fact that you don't want to do anything ill-informed is wonderful.  I still don't know for sure what I would do- there is just so much conflicting information out there.

            --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Emily Troper <emtroper@...> wrote:

            From: Emily Troper <emtroper@...>
            Subject: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
            To: RawPortland@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 2:05 AM

             

            We have not vaccinated our four children, yet, because we are not convinced that vaccines are safe.

            We started our extensive research before our oldest was born (18 years ago) and have continued that research throughout the years. We have NEVER felt 100% sure of our decision not to vaccinate, as the potential risks of either path are so difficult to calculate/predict, but we have factored in things that we feel are on our "good immunity" side such as: natural births, exclusive and extended breastfeeding, organic food, lots of time outside in nature, homeschooling, and high interest in our childrens' health and well-being.

            We have a wonderful family practitioner who respects us and whom we trust, we are "on top of" typical childhood illnesses with natural treatments and close observation and do not hand over our family's health decisions to unknown authority figures - we know how to research various paths to healing, and know when there isn't much choice (for example in the case of our teenager's emergency appendectomy a few years ago, there was no hesitation! :)).

            It would be wonderful if the typical family could prevent all illness and disease (and autism) simply by eating/living perfectly and using the law of attraction to attract good health, but we live here in THIS society, in THIS era, and the stress of that alone makes doing those things difficult if not impossible, so we do the best we can.


          • Nora Lenz
            Transfusing carries risks of its own, even setting aside the fact that it does not remove the cause of the problem. Wouldn t it be better to know why the
            Message 5 of 24 , Feb 21 11:33 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              
              Transfusing carries risks of its own, even setting aside the fact that it does not remove the cause of the problem.  Wouldn't it be better to know why the platelet count was dangerously low?  Most of the time this kind of condition is caused by the body's defenses being overburdened by the regular consumption of inappropriate foods and substances (herbs, medicines, vaccines, etc.) that precipitate a defensive reaction in the body.  The body always gives plenty of indication that there's a problem before it gets to the stage of emergency.  Medical intervention, on top of original cause, is what typically causes a situation like that to get to a crisis level.  Administering a risky transfusion at that point is seen as the only way to save the life, but the truth is that it only further burdens an already overwhelmed body.  When the child or person pulls through, the transfusion is credited.  When s/he doesn't, the "disease" is blamed.  It's a self-fulfilling little device that is used by all doctors.  In reality, when the body heals, it always does so in spite of treatment, not because of it, and in most situations when people are thought to die of "disease", it's really the treatment that killed them.  I know this is a difficult idea for most people to embrace, so entrenched and seductive is the belief in "cures". 
               
              To deal properly with that kind of situation, you'd have to address the early indicators of disease, identifying the causes, and removing them.  Then the body would be able to heal itself.  A doctor couldn't help with that process, since they are not taught this information.  Children don't die of low platelet counts spontaneously, indiscriminately, randomly and without cause.  There are always, ALWAYS gigantic, obvious, death-dealing mistakes being made on the part of the caretaking adult(s), including vaccination and medical intervention (suppression) when constructive illness (colds, flus, etc.) strikes. 
               
              Best wishes,
              Nora
               
               
               
              ----------------------------------------------------------------
               

              If I had a child who was dying of a low platelet count or low rbc, I would transfuse them in an instance.  I respect your opinion, and agree that our bodied are designed very intelligently. 



            • Cori Barth
              We have such completely different views- however, I respect your beliefs.  If one kept a very healthy lifestyle, I do believe their body would stave off
              Message 6 of 24 , Feb 21 12:19 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                We have such completely different views- however, I respect your beliefs.  If one kept a very healthy lifestyle, I do believe their body would stave off disease.  I'm glad that we can have such diversity in our views on healthcare- if one studies all of the different theories, they can come to an informed decision about their own healthcare.  Sorry if I was being offensive last night.

                --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...> wrote:

                From: Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...>
                Subject: Re: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
                To: RawPortland@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 11:33 AM

                 

                

                Transfusing carries risks of its own, even setting aside the fact that it does not remove the cause of the problem.  Wouldn't it be better to know why the platelet count was dangerously low?  Most of the time this kind of condition is caused by the body's defenses being overburdened by the regular consumption of inappropriate foods and substances (herbs, medicines, vaccines, etc.) that precipitate a defensive reaction in the body.  The body always gives plenty of indication that there's a problem before it gets to the stage of emergency.  Medical intervention, on top of original cause, is what typically causes a situation like that to get to a crisis level.  Administering a risky transfusion at that point is seen as the only way to save the life, but the truth is that it only further burdens an already overwhelmed body.  When the child or person pulls through, the transfusion is credited.  When s/he doesn't, the "disease" is blamed.  It's a self-fulfilling little device that is used by all doctors.  In reality, when the body heals, it always does so in spite of treatment, not because of it, and in most situations when people are thought to die of "disease", it's really the treatment that killed them.  I know this is a difficult idea for most people to embrace, so entrenched and seductive is the belief in "cures". 
                 
                To deal properly with that kind of situation, you'd have to address the early indicators of disease, identifying the causes, and removing them.  Then the body would be able to heal itself.  A doctor couldn't help with that process, since they are not taught this information.  Children don't die of low platelet counts spontaneously, indiscriminately, randomly and without cause.  There are always, ALWAYS gigantic, obvious, death-dealing mistakes being made on the part of the caretaking adult(s), including vaccination and medical intervention (suppression) when constructive illness (colds, flus, etc.) strikes. 
                 
                Best wishes,
                Nora
                 
                 
                 
                ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------
                 

                If I had a child who was dying of a low platelet count or low rbc, I would transfuse them in an instance.  I respect your opinion, and agree that our bodied are designed very intelligently. 





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