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Re: [RawPortland] Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism

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  • Cori Barth
    Didn t mean to offend you, but I also did not say that autism was a horrible side effect- I said autism or other horrible side effects .  Perhaps that could
    Message 1 of 24 , Feb 20, 2010
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      Didn't mean to offend you, but I also did not say that autism was a horrible side effect- I said "autism or other horrible side effects".  Perhaps that could have been worded differently.  I have 2 nephews with autism and they are the most wonderful kids in the world and I wouldn't change their unique sparks if possible.  One of them paints better than I could ever hope to. (They are also both unvaccinated.)  I didn't mean to make it seem like I dislike people with autism in any way- I actually am on the same page as you.  Cori

      --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Novo-Lacto <novolacto@...> wrote:

      From: Novo-Lacto <novolacto@...>
      Subject: Re: [RawPortland] Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
      To: RawPortland@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 12:29 PM

       

      I am moderately offended to hear Autism referred to as a 'horrible side effect'...I know many amazing individuals with Autism spectrum 'disorders' who contribute to our society in beautiful and creative ways that are uncommon in their 'neurotypical' peers.

      XO
      Brandy


      From: Cori Barth <cmbbarth@yahoo. com>
      To: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Sat, February 20, 2010 9:08:16 AM
      Subject: Re: [RawPortland] Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism

       

      Getting the mercury out would really help.  I understand that a lot of problems can be seen from vaccines, but let's not forget that there has been a rise in TB, polio (yes, we have been seeing new cases of polio in children), pneumonia, mumps,measles, and rubella.  There needs to be significant research done so that we can get vaccines that work without giving people autism or other horrible side effects.  I work for a doctor, and he still advocates vaccinations for children.  There is a chance at developing autism (possibly) but a higher chance of getting other deadly diseases, or at least becoming a carrier of them that could lead to others getting infected.  All that money that goes into research needs to stop going to drug reps buying lunches and coffee for Dr. offices and needs to be spent finding a way to help people.

      --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Nora Lenz <nmlenz@speakeasy. net> wrote:

      From: Nora Lenz <nmlenz@speakeasy. net>
      Subject: [RawPortland] Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
      To: Rawschool@yahoogrou ps.com, RawWashington@ yahoogroups. com, RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com
      Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 7:37 AM

       

      Hi All,
      If you know anyone who has a baby or is close to one, please forward this important video.  The link between vaccines and autism is too obvious even for the mainstream press to ignore now.  It is unfortunate that Mr. Kennedy talks like getting Thimerosal (mercury) out of vaccination would solve the problem, but it's a start.  Hopefully the effect will be that people will become justifiably suspicious of all vaccines.
      Best wishes,
      Nora
       



    • Nora Lenz
      Cori, To answer your question in the briefest way possible, no, HIV is not a disease. If you re open to the truth about the issue, I would refer you to the
      Message 2 of 24 , Feb 20, 2010
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        Cori,
         
        To answer your question in the briefest way possible, no, HIV is not a disease.  If you're open to the truth about the issue, I would refer you to the book "The Great AIDS Hoax" by TC Fry.  There have been others written more recently, as well, since the fairy tale has started to unravel. 
         
        Because the germ theory is so fundamental to the medical cartel's existence, it has been invoked as an explanation for as many diseases as possible.  You can bring all of them up one by one if you'd like, but it won't change the underlying truth, that disease does not invade from the outside, it accumulates from the inside.
         
        The CDC are primarily in business to promote the drug industry in any way possible, including creating public fear such as what they recently attempted with Swine Flu.  Naturally they would not be the best source of information about the relative harmfulness or effectiveness of vaccines.
         
        It takes a lot of fortitude and independence of mind to differ with doctors when you are surrounded by them.  I sincerely congratulate you for what you've done on that score so far.  
         
        Best wishes,
        Nora
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
         

         

        The doctor that I work for believes in a meat-based diet and anti-biotics.  I find fault with that.  They are taught a certain way in med school, and that is all they know (and the drug reps pushing the high priced drugs bribe at every chance they get, but at the heart of every medication prescribed is a medicine taken from nature).  If you want something besides "fear mongering", perhaps you should call the cdc .
         

        


      • Cori Barth
        I read what you said and am shocked as to the level of denial that some people are in.  I have been with people dying of AIDS.  It is real.  I test for HIV-
        Message 3 of 24 , Feb 20, 2010
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          I read what you said and am shocked as to the level of denial that some people are in.  I have been with people dying of AIDS.  It is real.  I test for HIV- there is a virus and it is tangible.  I'm glad some people are still so illusioned to think of it as a hoax. Wow.  I wish I lived in that world. I actually believe that I can get tetanus from a rusty nail.  I believe that if I eat shellfish I will break out in hives (I used to.)  From your point of view, we are all indestructible and immortality must be possible if we just eat right and excersize.  That's a great fairy tale.

          --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...> wrote:

          From: Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...>
          Subject: Re: [RawPortland] Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
          To: RawPortland@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 6:55 PM

           

          

          Cori,
           
          To answer your question in the briefest way possible, no, HIV is not a disease.  If you're open to the truth about the issue, I would refer you to the book "The Great AIDS Hoax" by TC Fry.  There have been others written more recently, as well, since the fairy tale has started to unravel. 
           
          Because the germ theory is so fundamental to the medical cartel's existence, it has been invoked as an explanation for as many diseases as possible.  You can bring all of them up one by one if you'd like, but it won't change the underlying truth, that disease does not invade from the outside, it accumulates from the inside.
           
          The CDC are primarily in business to promote the drug industry in any way possible, including creating public fear such as what they recently attempted with Swine Flu.  Naturally they would not be the best source of information about the relative harmfulness or effectiveness of vaccines.
           
          It takes a lot of fortitude and independence of mind to differ with doctors when you are surrounded by them.  I sincerely congratulate you for what you've done on that score so far.  
           
          Best wishes,
          Nora
          ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ----
           

           

          The doctor that I work for believes in a meat-based diet and anti-biotics.  I find fault with that.  They are taught a certain way in med school, and that is all they know (and the drug reps pushing the high priced drugs bribe at every chance they get, but at the heart of every medication prescribed is a medicine taken from nature).  If you want something besides "fear mongering", perhaps you should call the cdc .
           

          



        • Mike Snyder
          Hi Nora, There is no link between vaccines and autism. There are many published scientific studies that show there is no link between vaccines and autism.
          Message 4 of 24 , Feb 20, 2010
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            Hi Nora,

            There is no link between vaccines and autism.

            There are many published scientific studies that show there is no link between vaccines and autism.

            There is only one study published that shows a link between the MMR vaccine and autism.

            It was published in 1998 by Andrew Wakefield, and published by TheLancet.com , and The Lancet fully retracted the 1998 paper on February 2, 2010:
            http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2810%2960175-7/fulltext

            Quote "it has become clear that several elements of the 1998 paper by Wakefield et al  are incorrect ... In particular, the claims in the original paper that children were "consecutively referred" and that investigations were "approved" by the local ethics committee have been proven to be false. Therefore we fully retract this paper from the published record."

            The only study showing a link between autism and vaccines has been proven to be false and incorrect. There were many articles published about the retraction, such as this one:
            http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/feb/02/lancet-retracts-mmr-paper

            quote "Lancet retracts 'utterly false' MMR paper. After medical council ruling last week that MMR doctor Andrew Wakefield was dishonest, journal finally quashes paper. The Lancet today finally retracted the paper that sparked a crisis in MMR vaccination across the UK, following the General Medical Council's decision that its lead author, Andrew Wakefield, had been dishonest.The medical journal's editor, Richard Horton, told the Guardian today that he realised as soon as he read the GMC findings that the paper, published in February 1998, had to be retracted. "It was utterly clear, without any ambiguity at all, that the statements in the paper were utterly false," he said. "I feel I was deceived." "

            Here is a quote from an article in Time magazine:
            http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1003673,00.html
            "Do Vaccines Cause Autism? The latest study exonerating the MMR vaccine comes from Denmark, where investigators looked at the health records of every child born from 1991 through '98, more than 537,000 children. No matter how researchers analyzed the data, there was no difference in the autism rates of children who received the MMR vaccine and those who did not. There is no evidence that the MMR vaccine causes autism."

            Best Regards,

            Mike Snyder


            From: Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...>
            Sent: Sat, February 20, 2010 7:37:11 AM
            Subject: [RawPortland] Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism

             

            Hi All,
            If you know anyone who has a baby or is close to one, please forward this important video.  The link between vaccines and autism is too obvious even for the mainstream press to ignore now.  It is unfortunate that Mr. Kennedy talks like getting Thimerosal (mercury) out of vaccination would solve the problem, but it's a start.  Hopefully the effect will be that people will become justifiably suspicious of all vaccines.
            Best wishes,
            Nora
             
          • Nora Lenz
            Mike, You ll find lots of studies supporting vaccination. The only thing any of them proves is that money buys studies. There is no money to be made in
            Message 5 of 24 , Feb 20, 2010
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              Mike,
              You'll find lots of studies supporting vaccination.  The only thing any of them "proves" is that money buys studies.  There is no money to be made in proving vaccines are harmful.  If this was not the case, we wouldn't be having this discussion because the truth would be widely known and vaccination would long ago have been discarded.  Vaccination is not about human health, it's about money. 
               
              Generally, the mainstream press (including The Lancet and Time Magazine) is not a reliable source of truthful information about health (among other topics).  That's why I was pleasantly surprised to see that the interview I posted was produced by a mainstream media outlet.  With all that money at stake, the truth is still getting out.  Unfortunately it has to become really obvious before that can happen, which means lots of harm to lots of children.   
               
              Best wishes,
              Nora
               
               
               
               

              Here is a quote from an article in Time magazine:
              http://www.time. com/time/ magazine/ article/0, 9171,1003673, 00.html
            • Cori Barth
              I don t think you are as informed as you d like to be.  Sure, production of medication is about money.  However, you can t deny the evidence of the good
              Message 6 of 24 , Feb 20, 2010
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                I don't think you are as informed as you'd like to be.  Sure, production of medication is about money.  However, you can't deny the evidence of the good vaccines have done- you are simply pretending that there never were massive amounts of death attributed to measles, mumps and rubella.  I don't wish to change your beliefs, but please don't try and misguide people with unfounded thoughts.  Everyone should weigh the pro's and cons of vaccinations, then choose what they wish.  On a sidenote- I do believe that vaccines can sometimes illicit allergic responses in children- however, those responses can be triggered by environmental chemicals as well- more money needs to be spent finding out what the stimuli is, and what factors make some children more susceptible than others. "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"?

                --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...> wrote:

                From: Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...>
                Subject: Re: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
                To: RawPortland@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:36 PM

                 

                

                Mike,
                You'll find lots of studies supporting vaccination.  The only thing any of them "proves" is that money buys studies.  There is no money to be made in proving vaccines are harmful.  If this was not the case, we wouldn't be having this discussion because the truth would be widely known and vaccination would long ago have been discarded.  Vaccination is not about human health, it's about money. 
                 
                Generally, the mainstream press (including The Lancet and Time Magazine) is not a reliable source of truthful information about health (among other topics).  That's why I was pleasantly surprised to see that the interview I posted was produced by a mainstream media outlet.  With all that money at stake, the truth is still getting out.  Unfortunately it has to become really obvious before that can happen, which means lots of harm to lots of children.   
                 
                Best wishes,
                Nora
                 
                 
                 
                 

                Here is a quote from an article in Time magazine:
                http://www.time. com/time/ magazine/ article/0, 9171,1003673, 00.html

              • Cori Barth
                this was to Nora, Mike- I agree with you... ... From: Cori Barth Subject: Re: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism To:
                Message 7 of 24 , Feb 20, 2010
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                  this was to Nora, Mike- I agree with you...

                  --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Cori Barth <cmbbarth@...> wrote:

                  From: Cori Barth <cmbbarth@...>
                  Subject: Re: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
                  To: RawPortland@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 11:31 PM

                   

                  I don't think you are as informed as you'd like to be.  Sure, production of medication is about money.  However, you can't deny the evidence of the good vaccines have done- you are simply pretending that there never were massive amounts of death attributed to measles, mumps and rubella.  I don't wish to change your beliefs, but please don't try and misguide people with unfounded thoughts.  Everyone should weigh the pro's and cons of vaccinations, then choose what they wish.  On a sidenote- I do believe that vaccines can sometimes illicit allergic responses in children- however, those responses can be triggered by environmental chemicals as well- more money needs to be spent finding out what the stimuli is, and what factors make some children more susceptible than others. "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"?

                  --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Nora Lenz <nmlenz@speakeasy. net> wrote:

                  From: Nora Lenz <nmlenz@speakeasy. net>
                  Subject: Re: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
                  To: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com
                  Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:36 PM

                   

                  

                  Mike,
                  You'll find lots of studies supporting vaccination.  The only thing any of them "proves" is that money buys studies.  There is no money to be made in proving vaccines are harmful.  If this was not the case, we wouldn't be having this discussion because the truth would be widely known and vaccination would long ago have been discarded.  Vaccination is not about human health, it's about money. 
                   
                  Generally, the mainstream press (including The Lancet and Time Magazine) is not a reliable source of truthful information about health (among other topics).  That's why I was pleasantly surprised to see that the interview I posted was produced by a mainstream media outlet.  With all that money at stake, the truth is still getting out.  Unfortunately it has to become really obvious before that can happen, which means lots of harm to lots of children.   
                   
                  Best wishes,
                  Nora
                   
                   
                   
                   

                  Here is a quote from an article in Time magazine:
                  http://www.time. com/time/ magazine/ article/0, 9171,1003673, 00.html


                • Emily Troper
                  We have not vaccinated our four children, yet, because we are not convinced that vaccines are safe. We started our extensive research before our oldest was
                  Message 8 of 24 , Feb 21, 2010
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                    We have not vaccinated our four children, yet, because we are not convinced that vaccines are safe.

                    We started our extensive research before our oldest was born (18 years ago) and have continued that research throughout the years. We have NEVER felt 100% sure of our decision not to vaccinate, as the potential risks of either path are so difficult to calculate/predict, but we have factored in things that we feel are on our "good immunity" side such as: natural births, exclusive and extended breastfeeding, organic food, lots of time outside in nature, homeschooling, and high interest in our childrens' health and well-being.

                    We have a wonderful family practitioner who respects us and whom we trust, we are "on top of" typical childhood illnesses with natural treatments and close observation and do not hand over our family's health decisions to unknown authority figures - we know how to research various paths to healing, and know when there isn't much choice (for example in the case of our teenager's emergency appendectomy a few years ago, there was no hesitation! :)).

                    It would be wonderful if the typical family could prevent all illness and disease (and autism) simply by eating/living perfectly and using the law of attraction to attract good health, but we live here in THIS society, in THIS era, and the stress of that alone makes doing those things difficult if not impossible, so we do the best we can.
                  • Nora Lenz
                    I m never as informed as I d like to be, Cori. :) This is what has kept me looking for answers for 23 years. For all the pharmaceutical industry s claims
                    Message 9 of 24 , Feb 21, 2010
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                      I'm never as informed as I'd like to be, Cori.  :)  This is what has kept me looking for answers for 23 years.  
                       
                      For all the pharmaceutical industry's claims that vaccines "eradicate" disease, it was interesting to note that in a recent mumps outbreak in New Jersey, 77% of the afflicted had been vaccinated, as reported by CNN.  Here's a story about it:  http://www.naturalnews.com/028142_mumps_vaccines.html.  This is very unusual, but only from the standpoint that we don't often hear the unfiltered truth about the "failure" rate of vaccination, especially via the mainstream media.  The "failures" are actually quite common.
                       
                      There are no "pros" of vaccination.  They never, ever do anything beneficial in the body.  When they appear to "prevent" constructive illness, it is because they so devitalize the body that sometimes it can't muster the energy required to generate symptoms.  This is not a good thing.  That's why vaccine "failure" isn't failure at all.  Constructive illness has a very important role to play.  When waste accumulates to the point where it jeopardizes the vital functioning of the body, it has to come out via symptoms.  If the body lacks the capacity to generate symptoms, the waste is retained in the body where it causes degenerative disease.  People tend to blame the vaccines themselves for causing degenerative illness but it's really this phenomenon that accounts for it, although the toxins in the vaccines contribute proportionally.
                       
                      Negative responses to poisons being injected into the bloodstream cannot properly be categorized as "allergy".  Allergy is a pathological condition, and there is nothing pathological or abnormal about a body rejecting poisons.  It is the reaction of a healthy, vital body.  That it happens in some children or people and not in others is a function of how compromised (toxic) they already are at the time of the inoculation.  I am not allergic to anything but if a vaccine was injected into my bloodstream, I could almost guarantee I'd get symptoms.
                       
                      We can keep this discussion going as long as you'd like, and/or as long as the other listmembers will endure it, because I am happy to use it as an opportunity to share more information about how disease really works. 
                       
                      Best wishes,
                      Nora
                      P.S. I do have a favor to ask ... I'm sure those members receiving these posts in digest form would appreciate your trimming your posts.  Thanks in advance.
                       
                       
                      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                       

                      I don't think you are as informed as you'd like to be. 
                       
                      ...you can't deny the evidence of the good vaccines have done...
                       
                      Everyone should weigh the pro's and cons of vaccinations, then choose what they wish. 
                       
                      I do believe that vaccines can sometimes illicit allergic responses in children...

                    • Margie
                      As a medical professional I can tell you all right now that the majority of doctors and nurses refuse all vaccines. Why? Vaccination is NOT immunization. We
                      Message 10 of 24 , Feb 21, 2010
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                        As a medical professional I can tell you all right now that the majority of doctors and nurses refuse all vaccines. Why? Vaccination is NOT immunization. We were not created in the image of an idiot therefore our design is perfect. Unfortunately, as we looked for a way to avoid responsibility for our health, the powers to be came up with a 'solution.' As long as we believe that there are 'experts' more knowledgeable than God humanity will always experience disease and decay. Thank you for the opportunity to express my opinion. 

                        --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Constance Rojo <constance.rojo@...> wrote:

                        From: Constance Rojo <constance.rojo@...>
                        Subject: RE: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
                        To: RawPortland@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 8:49 AM

                         

                        All should be welcome unless extremely rude.  And a lively discussion with different views is not extremely rude.

                         

                        From: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:RawPortland @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of sunnymilanna
                        Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:54 AM
                        To: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism

                         

                         

                        What in the world are you doing here in the RAW group??? The people here believe in eating RAW and the 'miracles' (which really aren't miracles because the healing is understandable once you understand how eating RAW can heal) it can perform, which includes actually HEALING people as well as preventing illnesses/diseases from happening to the body that ingests raw food over a period of time.

                        It would be wiser for you to remain silent while you listen and learn. I really don't appreciate how you have attacked Nora just for her raising the issue of Autism and vaccinations. Just ONE child developing Autism from vaccinations is not okay.

                        Plus, it has been posted every year nationally the huge numbers of people that die from prescription drugs and even from being in the hospital which are much, much higher numbers of people than those who have died from 'natural medicine', which are very, very few.

                        This group is for people who believe in eating RAW and who are learning how to...I am very offended by your attitde and would prefer that you leave this group.

                        Aimee

                        --- In RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com, Cori Barth <cmbbarth@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I don't think you are as informed as you'd like to be.  Sure, production of medication is about money.  However, you can't deny the evidence of the good vaccines have done- you are simply pretending that there never were massive amounts of death attributed to measles, mumps and rubella.  I don't wish to change your beliefs, but please don't try and misguide people with unfounded thoughts.  Everyone should weigh the pro's and cons of vaccinations, then choose what they wish.  On a sidenote- I do believe that vaccines can sometimes illicit allergic responses in children- however, those responses can be triggered by environmental chemicals as well- more money needs to be spent finding out what the stimuli is, and what factors make some children more susceptible than others. "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"?
                        >
                        > --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > From: Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...>
                        > Subject: Re: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
                        > To: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com
                        > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:36 PM
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >  
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 
                        >
                        >
                        > Mike,
                        > You'll find lots of studies supporting
                        > vaccination.  The only thing any of them "proves" is that money buys
                        > studies.  There is no money to be made in proving vaccines are
                        > harmful.  If this was not the case, we wouldn't be having this discussion
                        > because the truth would be widely known and vaccination would long ago have been
                        > discarded.  Vaccination is not about human health, it's about money. 
                        >
                        >  
                        > Generally, the mainstream press (including The
                        > Lancet and Time Magazine) is not a reliable source of truthful information
                        > about health (among other topics).  That's why I was pleasantly surprised
                        > to see that the interview I posted was produced by a mainstream media
                        > outlet.  With all that money at stake, the truth is still getting
                        > out.  Unfortunately it has to become really obvious before that can happen,
                        > which means lots of harm to lots of children.   
                        >  
                        > Best wishes,
                        > Nora
                        >  
                        >  
                        >  
                        >  
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Here is a quote from an article in Time magazine:
                        > http://www.time. com/time/ magazine/ article/0, 9171,1003673, 00.html
                        >


                      • Cori Barth
                        Again, I am not saying that everyone should feel one way or the other- just be informed.  Eating a raw diet CAN make wonderful things happen in our bodies,
                        Message 11 of 24 , Feb 21, 2010
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                          Again, I am not saying that everyone should feel one way or the other- just be informed.  Eating a raw diet CAN make wonderful things happen in our bodies, but sometimes traditional medicine can be beneficial.  I don't get flu shots, don't take anti-biotics, and still am undecided as to whether or not I would vaccinate a child if I had one.  However, I do get a yearly mammogram, a papsmear, and encourage men to have prostate checks.  There is no harm in being informed about what is going on in our bodies, and if we find disease, at least we are able to target it through diet.  I am on this site because I eat a raw diet.  No more, no less.  I haven't attacked anyone, I have just stated and restated that I think people need to be informed.  Just one child developing autism from vaccines isn't ok, but if we just assume it's the vaccines instead of something else (environment that is extremely toxic, soil that is tainted, etc) then we may be doing ourselves an injustice.  Just as it is not ok for a child to get autism from a vaccine, I believe it is not ok for a child to get a deadly case of mumps, measles, or rubella from NOT getting vaccinated.  It's just a differing of opinion.  I have read several interviews of Noras, and find her very intelligent and informed.  However, I disagree with her on this one issue.  If disagreeing with someone is the same as attacking them, I guess we who have raw diets are attacking people every time we defend our belief.  Nora- Sorry if I worded things in a way that seemed mean.  I didn't mean to, and I value the fact that our opinions can differ.

                          --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Constance Rojo <constance.rojo@...> wrote:

                          From: Constance Rojo <constance.rojo@...>
                          Subject: RE: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
                          To: RawPortland@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 8:49 AM

                           

                          All should be welcome unless extremely rude.  And a lively discussion with different views is not extremely rude.

                           

                          From: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:RawPortland @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of sunnymilanna
                          Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:54 AM
                          To: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com
                          Subject: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism

                           

                           

                          What in the world are you doing here in the RAW group??? The people here believe in eating RAW and the 'miracles' (which really aren't miracles because the healing is understandable once you understand how eating RAW can heal) it can perform, which includes actually HEALING people as well as preventing illnesses/diseases from happening to the body that ingests raw food over a period of time.

                          It would be wiser for you to remain silent while you listen and learn. I really don't appreciate how you have attacked Nora just for her raising the issue of Autism and vaccinations. Just ONE child developing Autism from vaccinations is not okay.

                          Plus, it has been posted every year nationally the huge numbers of people that die from prescription drugs and even from being in the hospital which are much, much higher numbers of people than those who have died from 'natural medicine', which are very, very few.

                          This group is for people who believe in eating RAW and who are learning how to...I am very offended by your attitde and would prefer that you leave this group.

                          Aimee

                          --- In RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com, Cori Barth <cmbbarth@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I don't think you are as informed as you'd like to be.  Sure, production of medication is about money.  However, you can't deny the evidence of the good vaccines have done- you are simply pretending that there never were massive amounts of death attributed to measles, mumps and rubella.  I don't wish to change your beliefs, but please don't try and misguide people with unfounded thoughts.  Everyone should weigh the pro's and cons of vaccinations, then choose what they wish.  On a sidenote- I do believe that vaccines can sometimes illicit allergic responses in children- however, those responses can be triggered by environmental chemicals as well- more money needs to be spent finding out what the stimuli is, and what factors make some children more susceptible than others. "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"?
                          >
                          > --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > From: Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...>
                          > Subject: Re: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
                          > To: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com
                          > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:36 PM
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >  
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 
                          >
                          >
                          > Mike,
                          > You'll find lots of studies supporting
                          > vaccination.  The only thing any of them "proves" is that money buys
                          > studies.  There is no money to be made in proving vaccines are
                          > harmful.  If this was not the case, we wouldn't be having this discussion
                          > because the truth would be widely known and vaccination would long ago have been
                          > discarded.  Vaccination is not about human health, it's about money. 
                          >
                          >  
                          > Generally, the mainstream press (including The
                          > Lancet and Time Magazine) is not a reliable source of truthful information
                          > about health (among other topics).  That's why I was pleasantly surprised
                          > to see that the interview I posted was produced by a mainstream media
                          > outlet.  With all that money at stake, the truth is still getting
                          > out.  Unfortunately it has to become really obvious before that can happen,
                          > which means lots of harm to lots of children.   
                          >  
                          > Best wishes,
                          > Nora
                          >  
                          >  
                          >  
                          >  
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Here is a quote from an article in Time magazine:
                          > http://www.time. com/time/ magazine/ article/0, 9171,1003673, 00.html
                          >


                        • Cori Barth
                          I believe that s true, yet others don t maintain their health the way we do- it s them that I worry about.  If I had a child who was dying of a low platelet
                          Message 12 of 24 , Feb 21, 2010
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                            I believe that's true, yet others don't maintain their health the way we do- it's them that I worry about.  If I had a child who was dying of a low platelet count or low rbc, I would transfuse them in an instance.  I respect your opinion, and agree that our bodied are designed very intelligently.

                            --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Margie <marnacla@...> wrote:

                            From: Margie <marnacla@...>
                            Subject: RE: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
                            To: RawPortland@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 10:36 AM

                             

                            As a medical professional I can tell you all right now that the majority of doctors and nurses refuse all vaccines. Why? Vaccination is NOT immunization. We were not created in the image of an idiot therefore our design is perfect. Unfortunately, as we looked for a way to avoid responsibility for our health, the powers to be came up with a 'solution.' As long as we believe that there are 'experts' more knowledgeable than God humanity will always experience disease and decay. Thank you for the opportunity to express my opinion. 

                            --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Constance Rojo <constance.rojo@ comcast.net> wrote:

                            From: Constance Rojo <constance.rojo@ comcast.net>
                            Subject: RE: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
                            To: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com
                            Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 8:49 AM

                             

                            All should be welcome unless extremely rude.  And a lively discussion with different views is not extremely rude.

                             

                            From: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:RawPortland @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of sunnymilanna
                            Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:54 AM
                            To: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com
                            Subject: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism

                             

                             

                            What in the world are you doing here in the RAW group??? The people here believe in eating RAW and the 'miracles' (which really aren't miracles because the healing is understandable once you understand how eating RAW can heal) it can perform, which includes actually HEALING people as well as preventing illnesses/diseases from happening to the body that ingests raw food over a period of time.

                            It would be wiser for you to remain silent while you listen and learn. I really don't appreciate how you have attacked Nora just for her raising the issue of Autism and vaccinations. Just ONE child developing Autism from vaccinations is not okay.

                            Plus, it has been posted every year nationally the huge numbers of people that die from prescription drugs and even from being in the hospital which are much, much higher numbers of people than those who have died from 'natural medicine', which are very, very few.

                            This group is for people who believe in eating RAW and who are learning how to...I am very offended by your attitde and would prefer that you leave this group.

                            Aimee

                            --- In RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com, Cori Barth <cmbbarth@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I don't think you are as informed as you'd like to be.  Sure, production of medication is about money.  However, you can't deny the evidence of the good vaccines have done- you are simply pretending that there never were massive amounts of death attributed to measles, mumps and rubella.  I don't wish to change your beliefs, but please don't try and misguide people with unfounded thoughts.  Everyone should weigh the pro's and cons of vaccinations, then choose what they wish.  On a sidenote- I do believe that vaccines can sometimes illicit allergic responses in children- however, those responses can be triggered by environmental chemicals as well- more money needs to be spent finding out what the stimuli is, and what factors make some children more susceptible than others. "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"?
                            >
                            > --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...>
                            > Subject: Re: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
                            > To: RawPortland@ yahoogroups. com
                            > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:36 PM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > 
                            >
                            >
                            > Mike,
                            > You'll find lots of studies supporting
                            > vaccination.  The only thing any of them "proves" is that money buys
                            > studies.  There is no money to be made in proving vaccines are
                            > harmful.  If this was not the case, we wouldn't be having this discussion
                            > because the truth would be widely known and vaccination would long ago have been
                            > discarded.  Vaccination is not about human health, it's about money. 
                            >
                            >  
                            > Generally, the mainstream press (including The
                            > Lancet and Time Magazine) is not a reliable source of truthful information
                            > about health (among other topics).  That's why I was pleasantly surprised
                            > to see that the interview I posted was produced by a mainstream media
                            > outlet.  With all that money at stake, the truth is still getting
                            > out.  Unfortunately it has to become really obvious before that can happen,
                            > which means lots of harm to lots of children.   
                            >  
                            > Best wishes,
                            > Nora
                            >  
                            >  
                            >  
                            >  
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Here is a quote from an article in Time magazine:
                            > http://www.time. com/time/ magazine/ article/0, 9171,1003673, 00.html
                            >



                          • Cori Barth
                            I love the fact that you have put so much thought into this.  Parents have to protect their children, and the fact that you don t want to do anything
                            Message 13 of 24 , Feb 21, 2010
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                              I love the fact that you have put so much thought into this.  Parents have to protect their children, and the fact that you don't want to do anything ill-informed is wonderful.  I still don't know for sure what I would do- there is just so much conflicting information out there.

                              --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Emily Troper <emtroper@...> wrote:

                              From: Emily Troper <emtroper@...>
                              Subject: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
                              To: RawPortland@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 2:05 AM

                               

                              We have not vaccinated our four children, yet, because we are not convinced that vaccines are safe.

                              We started our extensive research before our oldest was born (18 years ago) and have continued that research throughout the years. We have NEVER felt 100% sure of our decision not to vaccinate, as the potential risks of either path are so difficult to calculate/predict, but we have factored in things that we feel are on our "good immunity" side such as: natural births, exclusive and extended breastfeeding, organic food, lots of time outside in nature, homeschooling, and high interest in our childrens' health and well-being.

                              We have a wonderful family practitioner who respects us and whom we trust, we are "on top of" typical childhood illnesses with natural treatments and close observation and do not hand over our family's health decisions to unknown authority figures - we know how to research various paths to healing, and know when there isn't much choice (for example in the case of our teenager's emergency appendectomy a few years ago, there was no hesitation! :)).

                              It would be wonderful if the typical family could prevent all illness and disease (and autism) simply by eating/living perfectly and using the law of attraction to attract good health, but we live here in THIS society, in THIS era, and the stress of that alone makes doing those things difficult if not impossible, so we do the best we can.


                            • Nora Lenz
                              Transfusing carries risks of its own, even setting aside the fact that it does not remove the cause of the problem. Wouldn t it be better to know why the
                              Message 14 of 24 , Feb 21, 2010
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                                Transfusing carries risks of its own, even setting aside the fact that it does not remove the cause of the problem.  Wouldn't it be better to know why the platelet count was dangerously low?  Most of the time this kind of condition is caused by the body's defenses being overburdened by the regular consumption of inappropriate foods and substances (herbs, medicines, vaccines, etc.) that precipitate a defensive reaction in the body.  The body always gives plenty of indication that there's a problem before it gets to the stage of emergency.  Medical intervention, on top of original cause, is what typically causes a situation like that to get to a crisis level.  Administering a risky transfusion at that point is seen as the only way to save the life, but the truth is that it only further burdens an already overwhelmed body.  When the child or person pulls through, the transfusion is credited.  When s/he doesn't, the "disease" is blamed.  It's a self-fulfilling little device that is used by all doctors.  In reality, when the body heals, it always does so in spite of treatment, not because of it, and in most situations when people are thought to die of "disease", it's really the treatment that killed them.  I know this is a difficult idea for most people to embrace, so entrenched and seductive is the belief in "cures". 
                                 
                                To deal properly with that kind of situation, you'd have to address the early indicators of disease, identifying the causes, and removing them.  Then the body would be able to heal itself.  A doctor couldn't help with that process, since they are not taught this information.  Children don't die of low platelet counts spontaneously, indiscriminately, randomly and without cause.  There are always, ALWAYS gigantic, obvious, death-dealing mistakes being made on the part of the caretaking adult(s), including vaccination and medical intervention (suppression) when constructive illness (colds, flus, etc.) strikes. 
                                 
                                Best wishes,
                                Nora
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                ----------------------------------------------------------------
                                 

                                If I had a child who was dying of a low platelet count or low rbc, I would transfuse them in an instance.  I respect your opinion, and agree that our bodied are designed very intelligently. 



                              • Cori Barth
                                We have such completely different views- however, I respect your beliefs.  If one kept a very healthy lifestyle, I do believe their body would stave off
                                Message 15 of 24 , Feb 21, 2010
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                                  We have such completely different views- however, I respect your beliefs.  If one kept a very healthy lifestyle, I do believe their body would stave off disease.  I'm glad that we can have such diversity in our views on healthcare- if one studies all of the different theories, they can come to an informed decision about their own healthcare.  Sorry if I was being offensive last night.

                                  --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...> wrote:

                                  From: Nora Lenz <nmlenz@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [RawPortland] Re: Slightly OT -- Vaccine-Autism
                                  To: RawPortland@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 11:33 AM

                                   

                                  

                                  Transfusing carries risks of its own, even setting aside the fact that it does not remove the cause of the problem.  Wouldn't it be better to know why the platelet count was dangerously low?  Most of the time this kind of condition is caused by the body's defenses being overburdened by the regular consumption of inappropriate foods and substances (herbs, medicines, vaccines, etc.) that precipitate a defensive reaction in the body.  The body always gives plenty of indication that there's a problem before it gets to the stage of emergency.  Medical intervention, on top of original cause, is what typically causes a situation like that to get to a crisis level.  Administering a risky transfusion at that point is seen as the only way to save the life, but the truth is that it only further burdens an already overwhelmed body.  When the child or person pulls through, the transfusion is credited.  When s/he doesn't, the "disease" is blamed.  It's a self-fulfilling little device that is used by all doctors.  In reality, when the body heals, it always does so in spite of treatment, not because of it, and in most situations when people are thought to die of "disease", it's really the treatment that killed them.  I know this is a difficult idea for most people to embrace, so entrenched and seductive is the belief in "cures". 
                                   
                                  To deal properly with that kind of situation, you'd have to address the early indicators of disease, identifying the causes, and removing them.  Then the body would be able to heal itself.  A doctor couldn't help with that process, since they are not taught this information.  Children don't die of low platelet counts spontaneously, indiscriminately, randomly and without cause.  There are always, ALWAYS gigantic, obvious, death-dealing mistakes being made on the part of the caretaking adult(s), including vaccination and medical intervention (suppression) when constructive illness (colds, flus, etc.) strikes. 
                                   
                                  Best wishes,
                                  Nora
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                  ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------
                                   

                                  If I had a child who was dying of a low platelet count or low rbc, I would transfuse them in an instance.  I respect your opinion, and agree that our bodied are designed very intelligently. 





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