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Re: [Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO] Completely over Linux

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  • Stephen Farthing
    Kerry, Don t kick yourself over this. You tried and failed. You tried a lot harder than most. But you are not alone in this. There are a lot of second hand
    Message 1 of 31 , Aug 12 1:12 PM
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      Kerry,

      Don't kick yourself over this.  You tried and failed. You tried a lot harder than most. But you are not alone in this. There are a lot of second hand Pies on the market from people who simply can't get on with them. I am still pretty amazed that they have sold over a million of the things. To me it is a triumph of marketing rather than anything special about the Pi. This side of the pond they are sold as the computer that will bring computer science back into schools and produce a new generation of programmers. Thirty years ago they said the same about the BBC Micro. This did not realise the promise and I fear the same will happen to the Pi. We Brits have a real talent for this long on promise short on delivery type of marketing, remember the Sinclair C5? 

       I like my Pi a lot but I would be the first to admit that using them for anything other than the software that comes with them is not trivial. I was always pretty amazed that they did not come with a pre-loaded operating system, which the BeagleBone black does. So often inexperienced users had to learn how to put LINUX on a memory card if they did not have the foresight to buy a pre loaded card. This was the first pitfall for a lot of people I suspect. Another is the fact that you have to shut LINUX down cleanly from a shell terminal (if you are not using the GUI) and again a lot of users are not used to this level of manual intervention. A more civilised system takes care of this for you. If you don't shut LINUX down properly you can trash the system when you power it off and have to go through some technical stuff, which requires a knowledge of Linux beyond the beginner level, to recover from. A third thing, which always bites me whenever I get a new LINUX system is that it never, quite, does everything I need it to without a lot of reconfiguration and purchasing of new hardware because of compatibility problems. And there were plenty of those with the Pi. (IIRR I built my first LINUX system in 1994). 

      Sure there are a lot of people doing really good work with the Pi but I think this is a small minority of the user base. My next Pi purchase will be the camera board and it looks like a lot of fun. But I am lucky in that I have reasonable technical skills and a lot of time to play. But I feel sure that there are a lot of poor lonely Pies, gathering dust in garages everywhere, because people like you tried and failed with them through no fault of your own. Sometimes I look at how the Pi is marketed and the phrase "Silicon Snake Oil", originated by Cliff Stoll, K1TA, comes to mind. 

      I wish I could buy your motherload of stuff, but the revenue men will charge me a fortune to import it. You will be best of selling it in the USA or, as was suggested, donating it to the hacker community. May be you should keep just one Pi. We are working on some Pi transmitters here plus I want to get a Pi QRSS grabber system going. I would be happy to send you a memory card with the programs plus Linux pre loaded should we get them going....

      73s Steve G0XAR
    • captain_jonathan_king
      I ve been working on Unix and Unix like systems for over 30 years professionally and it still catches me out. I m coming from the other side of the equation,
      Message 31 of 31 , Aug 16 11:59 AM
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        I've been working on Unix and Unix like systems for over 30 years professionally and it still catches me out.

        I'm coming from the other side of the equation, very new to this RF game and get very easily confused with impedance and mixers, amps and stuff like that and occasionally let the magic smoke out on a project but that is kind of the fun of it all.

        the Pi mixes both (built a few boards, written a few programmes and got some stuff wrong) which is why its a challenge but fun as well.

        Now if the Pi just had a GB of ram it would be perfect ...... :P

        Remember, "google is my friend" but only if you know the right questions to ask and how to phrase them properly.

        All the best

        Jonathan
        M0ORC

        --- In Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO@yahoogroups.com, "w5iem" <steve.w5iem@...> wrote:
        >
        > There is so much truth to this post, and John said it so well. I have had to look at life and determine what exactly are my priorities, and unfortunately taking the time to master Linux and the Raspberry Pi simply cannot be at the top of my list. I am still fascinated by the device and hope to one day take the time to learn it, but I don't like to learn enough to "just get by" with a project, but rather I want to truly master it. Right now I am working two jobs, I have a 9-month-old son, and I have a number of other things going on. I simply do not have the time to spend a couple of hours a week to really take the time to take on another great learning experience.
        >
        > But that doesn't mean I am going to go down in a blaze of glory and blame individual members of the group for my problems as Kerry McKenzie has done. There is nobody to blame for my situation, especially the Raspberry Pi and the Linux operating system. I could take the time to master it, but that would mean budgeting my time differently, and it is something I can't and won't do right now.
        >
        > Like John stated so well, there are a number of people that are making the Raspberry Pi work well for them, and fortunately they are sharing their knowledge, even to the point that they are taking many hours of work, imaging a disc, and putting that file out to the world to essentially rip off. Their results are not guaranteed, and if another person wants to truly replicate their work then that person can take the time to learn the system and all of its fine details. Many forget that the a number of the people that are putting great images of their work online for the world to use have college degrees in computer science or related fields, so if another person wants to truly replicate that work then I'd recommend enrolling in classes to begin that real learning process.
        >
        > At some point in my life I will hopefully be in a situation in which I can really learn more about the Raspberry Pi or whatever its successor might be. I would also like to learn to program in R, I would like to learn to use Visual Basic in Microsoft Excel and Microsoft Access, I would like to learn to play the guitar, and I also like to make to 3-4 baseball games per week.
        >
        > Now, if only I could find a way to master one of these goals and use it to produce more hours in the week I'd be doing quite well.
        >
        > My main point is, as John says, this group has some brilliant people that are doing amazing things on the Pi, and they are sharing this information for free. If you choose to accept their assistance, you must do so on the terms, and you must be willing to put in the time and have the patience to learn from them. It is fine to not have the time, as is the case with myself, but that is not the fault of those on the group.
        >
        > Steve, W5IEM
        > Georgetown, KY
        >
        >
        > --- In Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO@yahoogroups.com, John Ferrell <jferrell13@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Life gets overwhelming sometimes...
        > > I can identify with most everyone's problems here. I have always been
        > > able to bull my way through difficult problems. I am now finding that
        > > there are projects that I just cannot grasp. The best advice I can offer
        > > is to take smaller bites out of what ever the problem. Also, do not
        > > expect to keep up with the crowd and don't expect to be the smartest guy
        > > anymore. Just because somebody else made something work, it is not a
        > > guarantee that you can make it work.
        > > I read and marvel at the many diverse directions that many seem to
        > > master. This Raspberry Pi thing is a great opportunity in that there is
        > > so much information at so little cost. I have been flitting about with
        > > only modest gains in trivial projects. I feel that I am now at least an
        > > average Linux user in Pi world. Unfortunately, short term memory loss is
        > > common at my tender age of 73. Once I get tired in the evening I must
        > > find something else of interest. My useful work days are short.
        > > Fortunately, if there is something you really want to have you can find
        > > folks that support their work by providing parts, modules, code or even
        > > full turnkey solutions. In my situation, making something work is the
        > > more important goal.
        > > If you want out, go ahead, sell out and go do something else you find
        > > more satisfying. You can come back this direction later, The toys &
        > > tools will be a little different and the people will change but the
        > > challenges will remain. Once upon a time Ham Radio was all about
        > > building antennas, transmitters and receivers. Most of us just buy that
        > > stuff now days and focus on extending its uses.
        > > I have found that when I am receiving free help it is important that I
        > > accept the helper's terms. I hope you decide to hang around a while
        > > longer. Things are getting more interesting all the time.
        > > de W8CCW John
        >
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