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Re: [Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO] Ham program list?

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  • Kristoff Bonne
    Hi Jim, (late reply, busy weeks :-) ) Well, the idea was to only use this during installation. Instead of having to say use the webinterface of your router to
    Message 1 of 27 , Jun 30, 2013
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      Hi Jim,


      (late reply, busy weeks :-) )


      Well, the idea was to only use this during installation. Instead of having to say "use the webinterface of your router to find out the address of your device", you can just say "connect a small speaker or a headphone to the audio-out of the pi".


      However, I have been doing some small experiment today on my LAN using the "zeroconf" protocol (multicast DNS, AKA "bonjour" in apple speak).
      If I set up avahi on the pi, in theory, you should then be able to connect to the device using a simple "ssh pi@..." and the rest should go by itself.
      This works on linux and macosX.


      I do not have any window at home, so I don't know what kind of versions of windows would also support this.

      Who knows this?



      73
      kristoff - ON1ARF




      On 25-06-13 22:45, Jim Thisdale wrote:
       

      my 1st thought is if they are running headless, they probably won't have a speaker plugged in either...

      -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
      Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
      http://n1jmm.no-ip.org

      On 6/24/13 2:02 PM, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
      >
      >
      > Hi All,
      >
      > This surely got a lot of replies.
      >
      > I'll try to reply to most of them in this one message.
      >
      >
      >
      > Well, the problem is not for myself as I do know how to to access my device. (actually, as I have
      > the mac-address of all my pi's, I just connect with ipv6 using the link-local ip-address which is
      > based on the mac-address).
      >
      > What I want to do is find a solution that is easy to use for somebody with not to much knowledge
      > of unix or networking.
      >
      > The problem with fixed IP-addresses is that I don't know what subnet will be in use on the
      > LAN-network of the user. Also, I also had the case where I installed a device on my network and
      > surely by chance (or misfortune) it was configured with the same IP-address of my router. :-(
      >
      > So, the obvious other choice is DHCP, but then the question is how the user is going to know what
      > address has been assigned to the device.
      > And, a second annoyance is that there is no outside indication of the mac-address of the ethernet
      > device of the pi.
      >
      >
      > In the end, I had an idea simular to what Matthew proposed:
      > the pi has a audio-port that is easily accessable, so why use that? With a relative simple
      > bash-script and a tool like flite ("festival lite", a text-to-speech tool already present in the
      > repeater setup -thelinkbox- anyway) why not speak out the IP-address on that audio-port at startup.
      >
      > I think, for images that do not a text-to-speech system, most people do probably know what network
      > they are on (192.168.1.x, 10.10.10.x). It's just the last digit of the address of the pi they need
      > to know.
      > So why not write a small application that plays out the last digit of the ip-address on the
      > audio-port in CW. (hey, we are ham's, aren't we :-) !!!)
      >
      > (This looks like a fun little project to do as a "my first python/C/... program". Who is
      > interested in doing this? :-) )
      >
      >
      > 73
      > kristoff - ON1ARF
      >
      >
      > On 24-06-13 14:18, Kerry McKenzie wrote:
      >>
      >> Greetings
      >> is this really worth the effort as it only takes 2 minutes to make the
      >> IP on a PI fixed and it is problem solved?
      >> Kerry
      >>
      >> Matthew Pitts wrote:
      >> >
      >> > Kristoff,
      >> >
      >> > I know that the IRLP software (for all supported platforms) can
      >> > "speak" the IP address that the Pi is connected to, but in this
      >> > particular instance, that application is set to a fixed IP address and
      >> > won't change, whereas most other uses of the Pi will be using a
      >> > dynamic IP address. It may be possible to write a script that
      >> > announces the IP address either via a connected radio
      >> > (IRLP/Echolink/EchoIRLP/D-Star) or a connected speaker using the
      >> > internal audio output for the purpose.
      >> >
      >> > As far as Ham Radio Applications for the Pi, these are generally
      >> > available either in the Official Raspian software repositories, or in
      >> > a developer's specific repositories, for pretty much the reason that
      >> > Kristoff mentioned; a preloaded SD Card with every Ham application
      >> > that has been compiled for the Pi would be quite large and likely take
      >> > up a significant amount of room on an SD Card that would have to be
      >> > reclaimed if someone didn't need all of them at once.
      >> >
      >> > Matthew Pitts
      >> > N8OHU
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > ----------------------------------------------------------
      >> > *From:* Kristoff Bonne <kristoff@... <mailto:kristoff%40skypro.be>>
      >> > *To:* Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO%40yahoogroups.com>
      >> > *Sent:* Sunday, June 23, 2013 7:23 PM
      >> > *Subject:* Re: [Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO] Ham program list?
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > Hi Steve,
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > Well, today I have been working on a SD flashcard for tlb
      >> > ("thelinkbox", echolink software) for the pi; this due to all kind of
      >> > audio issues that popped up when distributing the application as source.
      >> > So I ended up with a very specifica version of the software for this
      >> > particular applitcation.
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > In my opinion, you have to conciders boards like the pi, beaglebone,
      >> > what-else-have-you not as a "computer", but as a "appliance". This
      >> > means that you just design a project and put a dedicated pi/BBB in it,
      >> > with a flashcard specially designed for this one particular project.
      >> >
      >> > So, yes, I agree, distributing ham software for the pi can be done
      >> > easier and distributing soft as a "sdcard image" does make sence; but
      >> > not as "one flash-card that does it all".
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > BTW. What would be nice to see is a place where people who create
      >> > these images can distribute them. I've been playing around for a
      >> > couple of days to use my NAS as a bittorrent server and place the file
      >> > on it. But, in the end, this is not a good sollution.
      >> > What would be nice if there is somebody with a couple of hunderd GB of
      >> > disk-storage in some dataserver room which can act distribution center
      >> > for SDcard images.
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > BTW2.
      >> > What I still have not found is an easy way to have a raspiberry pi
      >> > announce its own IP-address to a user. As most "appliance" do not have
      >> > a screen attached or run from a relative small image (one that does
      >> > not have a X server), the user must "ssh" to the device to do some
      >> > basic configuration.
      >> > I am looking for a better way to allow people to find their device on
      >> > the local LAN then "now look at the webpage of your home-network
      >> > router and find the ip-address of the device you have just booted".
      >> > Perhaps something using MDNS (multicast DNS) or something like that?
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > Who has a good idea how to do this?
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > 73
      >> > kristoff - ON1ARF
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > On 23-06-13 12:50, g1kqh wrote:
      >> >>
      >> >> Help!
      >> >>
      >> >> Has anyone compiled a list of Amateur software, that will, or won't,
      >> >> run on the Pi yet, and under which or what Linux versions??
      >> >>
      >> >> Ideally, I and other Amateurs, would like to just put the SD card in
      >> >> with the operating system on and all of the known Ham programs
      >> >> alongside too, saves a lot of time and messing!
      >> >>
      >> >> Surely there must be someone in the same boat?
      >> >>
      >> >> 73 Steve
      >> >>
      >> >> G1KQH
      >> >>
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >>
      >> --
      >> Kind Regards
      >> Kerry McKenzie
      >>
      >> PO Box 4492
      >> Kirwan QLD 4817
      >> Australia
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >


    • Jim Thisdale
      what happens if you have more than 1 pi online? wouldn t it be nice if we could simply put a configuration file in the /boot partition, sometihng like this:
      Message 2 of 27 , Jun 30, 2013
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        what happens if you have more than 1 pi online?

        wouldn't it be nice if we could simply put a configuration file in the /boot partition, sometihng
        like this:
        /boot/eth0_conf
        ip=192.168.3.14

        The file could be edited when the sdcard is first written, since this is a fat32 partition it could
        be done on windows also.

        would just need a standard set of filenames & parameters.
        perhaps one config file with many parameters, just un-comment the appropriate lines and set the values

        however I think it would be much easier for most if the images just had apache installed and
        online-config much like logging into a router, however with the CLI purest I doubt that will ever
        happen.

        -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
        http://n1jmm.no-ip.org On 6/30/13 3:49 PM, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hi Jim,
        >
        >
        > (late reply, busy weeks :-) )
        >
        >
        > Well, the idea was to only use this during installation. Instead of having to say "use the
        > webinterface of your router to find out the address of your device", you can just say "connect a
        > small speaker or a headphone to the audio-out of the pi".
        >
        >
        > However, I have been doing some small experiment today on my LAN using the "zeroconf" protocol
        > (multicast DNS, AKA "bonjour" in apple speak).
        > If I set up avahi on the pi, in theory, you should then be able to connect to the device using a
        > simple "ssh pi@..." and the rest should go by itself.
        > This works on linux and macosX.
        >
        >
        > I do not have any window at home, so I don't know what kind of versions of windows would also
        > support this.
        >
        > Who knows this?
        >
        >
        >
        > 73
        > kristoff - ON1ARF
        >
        >
      • Kristoff Bonne
        Hi Jim, ... mdns works -by default- on the hostname. Perhaps just to use a different name per RPi-image; e.g. call the image for thelinkbox tlb; which is
        Message 3 of 27 , Jun 30, 2013
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          Hi Jim,




          On 01-07-13 00:13, Jim Thisdale wrote:
           

          what happens if you have more than 1 pi online?

          mdns works -by default- on the hostname.  Perhaps just to use a different name per RPi-image; e.g. call the image for "thelinkbox" tlb; which is different from the default name of a new rpi: called "raspberry pi".


          I haven't tried yet what happens if have two hosts with the same name advertising themselfs via mdns on your lan.


          Note, for most people (unless you have a subnet with public IP-addresseson your LAN) it does not make sence to have multiple servers running thelinkbox on your network as you need portforwarding on your router (for the echolink to work). And you can only have one single device behind a portforwarded port.

          (that could of course change once / if echolink gets ipv6 support :-) ).



          But, as said, the goal is just to discover your device after the initial flashing of the image on the SDcard.

          My idea is that a user should go over these steps to install a new image:

          - download an image from the net
          - write the image to an SD card
          - boot a rpi with that SDcard
          - find that pi on your network
          - log in via ssh
          - reconfigure some files: change password, change tlb configuration, set up fixed ip-address, perhaps change hostname, ...
          - reboot
          - have a running application.


          This means that we needs some scripts for the boot process:

          - check configuration of the device: has the password been change from the standard password, is it configured for fixed ip-address, is the configuration of "tlb.conf" more-or-less correct, ...

          * if not, write some message to a text-file in /home/pi
          - boot the device with a certain indication (one of the LEDs on the pi blinking?)
          - announce the IP-address on the audio-port
          - start up avahi (mdns server)

          * If all condition *do* are met; the device should start up tlb with the application running.



          In theory, there is no reason anymore to run avahi or announce the address on the audio-port as the user has configured the device with a fixed ip-address anyway; so he/she should know the address.



          wouldn't it be nice if we could simply put a configuration file in the /boot partition, sometihng
          like this:
          /boot/eth0_conf
          ip=192.168.3.14

          That's indeed another option.

          There was already an discussion on this in one of the lists: develop a minimal but "generic" framework for ham-related RPi images for this kind of pre-configurion tools.


          However, a friend of mine did say he had some experience with this kind of setup and had a lot of issues with people that modified the configuration-files with some windows text-editor, or even word; which resulted in all kind of strange characters in the configuration.
          Not good! :-(


          I haven't had time to realy work on this. It would be a nice thing to have.

          On the other hand, it's probably not a bad idea to let the people do *something* in linux too (even if it just described in a step-by-step text); to give them some feeling what they are working on.
          It's also interesting that people must modify the configuration-files of the application themselfs so they get an idea what is in there (and therefor what the application is capable).



          however I think it would be much easier for most if the images just had apache installed and
          online-config much like logging into a router, however with the CLI purest I doubt that will ever
          happen.

          The issue here is the same: how does the user know what ip-address he needs to surf too.

          This does not solve the "discover the ipaddress of the new pi" problem! :-(




          -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:

          73
          kristoff - ON1ARF

        • Jim Thisdale
          Hi Kristoff I like the idea of the voice announcementand I see some replies/ideas how to do it... If this was incorporated in the OS images then it could be
          Message 4 of 27 , Jul 1, 2013
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            Hi Kristoff

            I like the idea of the voice announcementand I see some replies/ideas how to do it...

            If this was incorporated in the OS images then it could be useful, however if we have to get the Pi
            up and running first to load these packages and set it up then we would already know the IP of the
            Pi and could easily get the MAC... Of course some of this problem could be prevented if they would
            just provide the MAC address on/with the Pi, then we could preset the router to issue a specific
            address we want.

            For me it hasn't been a problem, I just check my router to see what new devices have tried to
            connect, then add that mac to the DHCP Reservation table with the IP I want. Then I update my
            MAC-Host table file so I have the info in the future.

            -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
            Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
            http://n1jmm.no-ip.org

            On 6/30/13 3:49 PM, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hi Jim,
            >
            >
            > (late reply, busy weeks :-) )
            >
            >
            > Well, the idea was to only use this during installation. Instead of having to say "use the
            > webinterface of your router to find out the address of your device", you can just say "connect a
            > small speaker or a headphone to the audio-out of the pi".
            >
            >
            > However, I have been doing some small experiment today on my LAN using the "zeroconf" protocol
            > (multicast DNS, AKA "bonjour" in apple speak).
            > If I set up avahi on the pi, in theory, you should then be able to connect to the device using a
            > simple "ssh pi@..." and the rest should go by itself.
            > This works on linux and macosX.
            >
            >
            > I do not have any window at home, so I don't know what kind of versions of windows would also
            > support this.
            >
            > Who knows this?
            >
            >
            >
            > 73
            > kristoff - ON1ARF
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > On 25-06-13 22:45, Jim Thisdale wrote:
            >>
            >> my 1st thought is if they are running headless, they probably won't have a speaker plugged in
            >> either...
            >>
            >> -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
            >> Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
            >> http://n1jmm.no-ip.org
            >>
            >> On 6/24/13 2:02 PM, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > Hi All,
            >> >
            >> > This surely got a lot of replies.
            >> >
            >> > I'll try to reply to most of them in this one message.
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > Well, the problem is not for myself as I do know how to to access my device. (actually, as I have
            >> > the mac-address of all my pi's, I just connect with ipv6 using the link-local ip-address which is
            >> > based on the mac-address).
            >> >
            >> > What I want to do is find a solution that is easy to use for somebody with not to much knowledge
            >> > of unix or networking.
            >> >
            >> > The problem with fixed IP-addresses is that I don't know what subnet will be in use on the
            >> > LAN-network of the user. Also, I also had the case where I installed a device on my network and
            >> > surely by chance (or misfortune) it was configured with the same IP-address of my router. :-(
            >> >
            >> > So, the obvious other choice is DHCP, but then the question is how the user is going to know what
            >> > address has been assigned to the device.
            >> > And, a second annoyance is that there is no outside indication of the mac-address of the ethernet
            >> > device of the pi.
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > In the end, I had an idea simular to what Matthew proposed:
            >> > the pi has a audio-port that is easily accessable, so why use that? With a relative simple
            >> > bash-script and a tool like flite ("festival lite", a text-to-speech tool already present in the
            >> > repeater setup -thelinkbox- anyway) why not speak out the IP-address on that audio-port at startup.
            >> >
            >> > I think, for images that do not a text-to-speech system, most people do probably know what network
            >> > they are on (192.168.1.x, 10.10.10.x). It's just the last digit of the address of the pi they need
            >> > to know.
            >> > So why not write a small application that plays out the last digit of the ip-address on the
            >> > audio-port in CW. (hey, we are ham's, aren't we :-) !!!)
            >> >
            >> > (This looks like a fun little project to do as a "my first python/C/... program". Who is
            >> > interested in doing this? :-) )
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > 73
            >> > kristoff - ON1ARF
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > On 24-06-13 14:18, Kerry McKenzie wrote:
            >> >>
            >> >> Greetings
            >> >> is this really worth the effort as it only takes 2 minutes to make the
            >> >> IP on a PI fixed and it is problem solved?
            >> >> Kerry
            >> >>
            >> >> Matthew Pitts wrote:
            >> >> >
            >> >> > Kristoff,
            >> >> >
            >> >> > I know that the IRLP software (for all supported platforms) can
            >> >> > "speak" the IP address that the Pi is connected to, but in this
            >> >> > particular instance, that application is set to a fixed IP address and
            >> >> > won't change, whereas most other uses of the Pi will be using a
            >> >> > dynamic IP address. It may be possible to write a script that
            >> >> > announces the IP address either via a connected radio
            >> >> > (IRLP/Echolink/EchoIRLP/D-Star) or a connected speaker using the
            >> >> > internal audio output for the purpose.
            >> >> >
            >> >> > As far as Ham Radio Applications for the Pi, these are generally
            >> >> > available either in the Official Raspian software repositories, or in
            >> >> > a developer's specific repositories, for pretty much the reason that
            >> >> > Kristoff mentioned; a preloaded SD Card with every Ham application
            >> >> > that has been compiled for the Pi would be quite large and likely take
            >> >> > up a significant amount of room on an SD Card that would have to be
            >> >> > reclaimed if someone didn't need all of them at once.
            >> >> >
            >> >> > Matthew Pitts
            >> >> > N8OHU
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------
            >> >> > *From:* Kristoff Bonne <kristoff@... <mailto:kristoff%40skypro.be>
            >> <mailto:kristoff%40skypro.be>>
            >> >> > *To:* Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO@yahoogroups.com
            >> <mailto:Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> <mailto:Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> >> > *Sent:* Sunday, June 23, 2013 7:23 PM
            >> >> > *Subject:* Re: [Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO] Ham program list?
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> > Hi Steve,
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> > Well, today I have been working on a SD flashcard for tlb
            >> >> > ("thelinkbox", echolink software) for the pi; this due to all kind of
            >> >> > audio issues that popped up when distributing the application as source.
            >> >> > So I ended up with a very specifica version of the software for this
            >> >> > particular applitcation.
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> > In my opinion, you have to conciders boards like the pi, beaglebone,
            >> >> > what-else-have-you not as a "computer", but as a "appliance". This
            >> >> > means that you just design a project and put a dedicated pi/BBB in it,
            >> >> > with a flashcard specially designed for this one particular project.
            >> >> >
            >> >> > So, yes, I agree, distributing ham software for the pi can be done
            >> >> > easier and distributing soft as a "sdcard image" does make sence; but
            >> >> > not as "one flash-card that does it all".
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> > BTW. What would be nice to see is a place where people who create
            >> >> > these images can distribute them. I've been playing around for a
            >> >> > couple of days to use my NAS as a bittorrent server and place the file
            >> >> > on it. But, in the end, this is not a good sollution.
            >> >> > What would be nice if there is somebody with a couple of hunderd GB of
            >> >> > disk-storage in some dataserver room which can act distribution center
            >> >> > for SDcard images.
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> > BTW2.
            >> >> > What I still have not found is an easy way to have a raspiberry pi
            >> >> > announce its own IP-address to a user. As most "appliance" do not have
            >> >> > a screen attached or run from a relative small image (one that does
            >> >> > not have a X server), the user must "ssh" to the device to do some
            >> >> > basic configuration.
            >> >> > I am looking for a better way to allow people to find their device on
            >> >> > the local LAN then "now look at the webpage of your home-network
            >> >> > router and find the ip-address of the device you have just booted".
            >> >> > Perhaps something using MDNS (multicast DNS) or something like that?
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> > Who has a good idea how to do this?
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> > 73
            >> >> > kristoff - ON1ARF
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> > On 23-06-13 12:50, g1kqh wrote:
            >> >> >>
            >> >> >> Help!
            >> >> >>
            >> >> >> Has anyone compiled a list of Amateur software, that will, or won't,
            >> >> >> run on the Pi yet, and under which or what Linux versions??
            >> >> >>
            >> >> >> Ideally, I and other Amateurs, would like to just put the SD card in
            >> >> >> with the operating system on and all of the known Ham programs
            >> >> >> alongside too, saves a lot of time and messing!
            >> >> >>
            >> >> >> Surely there must be someone in the same boat?
            >> >> >>
            >> >> >> 73 Steve
            >> >> >>
            >> >> >> G1KQH
            >> >> >>
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >> >
            >> >>
            >> >> --
            >> >> Kind Regards
            >> >> Kerry McKenzie
            >> >>
            >> >> PO Box 4492
            >> >> Kirwan QLD 4817
            >> >> Australia
            >> >>
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
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