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Re: [Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO] Re: framework for self-starting ham application images on Raspberry pi

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  • Jim Thisdale
    Hi Kerry I got to your vk4tub.no-ip.org website... Nothing about the Pis on there... Normally you would just forward port 80 to the machine running apache and
    Message 1 of 17 , May 14, 2013
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      Hi Kerry

      I got to your vk4tub.no-ip.org website... Nothing about the Pis on there...

      Normally you would just forward port 80 to the machine running apache and make sure the firewall is
      open on that machine.

      If you are looking to have more than one machine runnning apache you will have to use separate port
      numbers, I typically use 81 for the 2nd machine.

      vk4tub.no-ip.org:81

      then do a port conversion of 81 to 80 in the router going to the address of the 2nd machine running
      apache. This way I don't have ot change apache config to listen on a different port number, it is
      all handled in the router.

      No, I'm not familar with owncloud...

      Webmin makes administering/config of many programs a lot easier.

      How do you get to your owncloud server, do you use the http://<local-ip> method?
      for external it would be something like:
      http://vk4tub.no-ip.org:81
      or
      http://<internetaddress>:81
      assuming you use port number 81 for the 2nd apache machine.

      Perhaps owncloud requires a different port number by default.

      In Linux many programs are NOT DOWNLOADED like in windows. You typically use a 'package manager' and
      tell it what you want to install, it will get the required package files from the 'repository' and
      install them (assuming all goes right.) There are some exceptions to this.

      If I recall correctly you are probably about 13 to 15 hours ahead of me, I'm in Connecticut USA,
      East Coast, Eastern Time Zone. I'm usually up fairly late, 12 - 2 am.

      Can you get on DCS014 ?
      actually you could either connect to my gateway, KB1YPL B or callsign route to me, N1JMM...

      Also I'm on yahoo instant messanger and I could be on many others I just don't log into them unless
      there is a need.

      If you have one of the Pi's setup for SSH, XRDP, you can private email me the log in info and I will
      help you.

      -Jim-

      -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
      Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
      http://n1jmm.no-ip.org

      On 5/14/13 2:03 PM, Kerry McKenzie wrote:
      > Hi Jim
      > I have setup an owncloud headless PI as it was the only prepared image
      > that i could find on the web,... but cannot see it from the outside
      > although i have made the ports accessible via my router however i can
      > http into it from within my network and upload file and create folders
      > etc, and even setup users.
      > But it does not exist where i need it on the outside, and because linux
      > scatters files all over the place makes it very difficult once again to
      > fault find.
      >
      > Dont know if you know owncloud at all but it runs the free sql edition
      > and apache and it is I would imagine just a matter of finding appache
      > and configuring it to see the outside via my vk4tub.no-ip.org account.
      > I have a friend in Canada who is also helping with a version of fbb that
      > he setup for me and I am trying to find my way around that right now as
      > i have some forwarding issues with it.
      > I am having difficulies with the fact that linux scatters files
      > everywhere and you have to know the paths and where things are kept in
      > order to fault find problems.
      > None of my books cover this and hence many of my problems stem from the
      > fact that i want to run radio projects and not games or programming as
      > this is well covered in all the pie books I have.
      >
      > I am very disappointed with the fact that these are advertised as
      > learning tools for school children and one automatically assumes that
      > they will be a simple thing to use.
      > Misleading for a beginner like myself and also I have not successfully
      > got anything to actually work on the pi myself and still nothing after 5
      > months which is pretty poor meaning I am either a total idiot or it is
      > simply beyond the average person.
      > If it wasn't for the fact that someone else kindly setup fbb for me i
      > would have no hope, compiling all the stuff needed for the pie was a
      > huge learning curve on its own and I had spent months trying.
      > And while I am on it i have searched the web for countless hours looking
      > for this magic repository where all these program's are available for
      > the PI but have never yet found anywhere to download them or where it
      > actually is.
      > I have covered pie for beginners, the actual pie site itself and many
      > other places but am lost as to actually where i can download this software.
      > Apparently you can just type "apt-get" and it magically appears ,...but
      > im aftraid the batteries in my magic wand must be flat ;-)) as i cannot
      > get a dam thing?
      >
      > So Jim right now after all this time I, and effort will except help from
      > absolutely anyone, and in the end i hope that one day it would be nice
      > to actually get something to a work myself on one of these god dam
      > cursed boxes.
      > As I can see the day coming very soon where the whole lot will become
      > wheel chocks for my car.
      >
      > So thank you sincerely for your offer and i will gladly take you up on
      > that, i will go and check the link you have provided and thank you
      > again.......Kerry
      >
      >
      >
      > Jim Thisdale wrote:
      >>
      >> Hi Kerry
      >>
      >> Have you been able to get "Raspbian Hard Float" image onto a card and
      >> boot it yet?
      >>
      >> If so we can work on the rest, I have a lot more than LAMP running on
      >> mine. See my website.
      >>
      >> If you can get Raspbian up and running and open the SSH port through
      >> your router I could remote in
      >> and setup the Apache, (My)SQL, & PHP.
      >>
      >> -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
      >> Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
      >> http://n1jmm.no-ip.org
      >>
      >> On 5/14/13 5:38 AM, Kerry McKenzie wrote:
      >>> Greetings all
      >>> this would be an excellent idea for persons such as myself who are
      >>> unable to grasp the basics of linux.
      >>> I have five raspberry PI's and books galore,....wasted countless printer
      >>> cartridges, reams of paper, two TNC PI's and cant get a god dam single
      >>> radio project to work yet and it is now 5 months.
      >>>
      >>> So yes please if you have a plug and play option to get simple projects
      >>> off the ground like fbb packet radio or a lamp server,....I will be
      >>> first in the que!!!
      >>>
      >>> Bring it on!
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
    • Kristoff Bonne
      Jim, (I send this message before but for reason it does not appear on the list. 2nd try). That s indeed the idea. - a generic description of the system: - you
      Message 2 of 17 , May 14, 2013
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        Jim,


        (I send this message before but for reason it does not appear on the list. 2nd try).


        That's indeed the idea.

        - a generic description of the system:

        -> you place the config files in that folder on that device (boot partition of flashcard? Additional USB flashdisk, ...)
        -> if a file "ipnetwork" exists, it's a network configuration. The system will override /etc/network/interfaces are restart the network
        -> if a file "configs" exist, it contains a list of configuration files that are copied to the system disk
        -> if a file "application" exist, it contains a list of applications that will be started, in that order".
        ...

        - a couple of demo scripts to get started.



        73
        Kristoff - ON1ARF



        On 14-05-13 07:46, Jim Thisdale wrote:
         

        Another option for configuration would be to have device/appliance look for a USB memory stick with
        specific files on power-up/reset. If ip.txt is found, load the ip address, if image.txt found load
        the program image file into flash and start it. Filenames may have to be tweaked. Memory stick could
        be in write-protect mode for security.

        Another method (possibly more complicated, remember doing this is firmware/BIOS/POST) would be to
        have the device get its address via DHCP. (put it's MAC address on a label/sticker) so a DHCP server
        could be programmed to issue a specific address.

        -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
        Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
        http://n1jmm.no-ip.org

        On 5/13/13 5:54 PM, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
        > Hi,
        >
        >
        > I am now working on the "build your own echolink node with a raspberry
        > pi" project.
        > The final goal would be to come to a system that is as easy as possible
        > to use. Something as simple as "insert a SD card in the Raspberry pi,
        > connect the cables, boot and go".
        >


      • Kristoff Bonne
        Jim, I know this is a question of taste, but I personally prefer using off-the-shelf components. They are not perfect but they have 4 big advantages: - they
        Message 3 of 17 , May 14, 2013
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          Jim,


          I know this is a question of taste, but I personally prefer using off-the-shelf components.

          They are not perfect but they have 4 big advantages:
          - they are easy to find (no "single source" issue as we have had on a number of other ham projects)
          - they are cheap
          - there is a lot of support for them
          - they are reusable. If you bought a Pi for a ham project and you are not interested anymore; you can still reuse it as a XBMC mediaplayer (or whatever).


          Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the Pi is perfect. It's not.
          And I do not have anything against designing home-build systems.


          But, ... they are there and they get the job done.



          BTW. Concerning your remark on the VFAT partition. I wasn't aware of that.
          Thanks.

          But you are also correct there is more then sufficient place on the boot partition (i.e. the first partition of the SDcard): 38 Mbyte That should be enough to store a couple of config-files.
          I did like your idea to put the configuration on a USB flashdrive. This would also provide sufficient space for the application to dump its logfiles.




          73
          Kristoff - ON1ARF


          On 14-05-13 07:33, Jim Thisdale wrote:
           

          Note, dos/windows (older versions at least) generally don't mount partitions after any partition it
          can't read... 1st is fat 16, 2nd is linux ext4 which windows won't mount, 3rd or more won't be
          mounted, so creating a 3rd partition for config files is probably not going to work for most windows
          users. However, there is no reason a small configuration file couldn't be added to the first (FAT16)
          partition.

          Ideas for framework of small computer board:

          Eliminate the SDcard completely and have on board flash memory, lets go for a gigabyte....

          connections for programmer?

          open source firmware/OS if possible

          include a basic http interface, much like a consumer wifi router has... with backup/load capability.

          do all configuration/loading over Ethernet.

          hit the reset button and be up and running....

          should have a few usb host slots... (sound fobs, memory stick)

          would be good to have it powered by 12-15vdc like our radios, makes for easy reliable power source.

          expansion connector for modem board(s)

          some basic led indicators. (ability to disable lights to conserve power use)

          some basic I/O would be handy:
          - few channels of A/D input say 0 - 5vdc range
          - maybe a few channels of D/A output, 0 - 5vdc?
          - microphone input
          - speaker output
          - digital inputs, +5 vdc with optional internal pull-ups to make for easy switch hookup.
          - digital outputs, +5 vdc, with optional internal pull-ups, probably open collector to ground
          suitable for radio ptt or relay sinking.
          - ???

          Any other suggestions ?

          -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
          Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
          http://n1jmm.no-ip.org

          On 5/13/13 5:54 PM, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
          > Hi,
          >
          >
          > I am now working on the "build your own echolink node with a raspberry
          > pi" project.
          > The final goal would be to come to a system that is as easy as possible
          > to use. Something as simple as "insert a SD card in the Raspberry pi,
          > connect the cables, boot and go".
          >
          >
          > But, I guess this would not only be usefull for my project. In fact,
          > this probably applies to all "headless" applications (i.e. applications
          > that do not need user input/output via keyboard or screen) and quite a
          > number of the ham-projects are like that: D-STAR repeaters/hotspots,
          > APRS nodes, WSPR listeners, repeater controllers, APRS weather stations,
          > c2gmsk modem, etc.
          > In all these cases, we just need a radio, some butons, (in some cases)
          > an IP connection (read: ethernet) and ... a configuration file for the
          > application; but no screen or keyboard.
          >
          >
          >
          > So, would it not be usefull to create a generic framework for this, or
          > an overall document that describes how to build such a setup? This could
          > be usefull for a lot of different projects.
          >
          >
          >
          > My idea would be this:
          > - a SD card with three partitions: the two normal partitions (boot +
          > system) and an additional FAT partition.
          > - the addition partition would contain the configuration files for the
          > application involved and (perhaps) some system configurations.
          > - The diskimage can be directly copied to a SD card (as you would do to
          > install raspbian).
          > - The user would then just need to modify the files on the extra
          > partition. As it FAT formatted, it can be read on any computer that has
          > a SD card reader (even windows. :-) )
          > - Then, insert the SDcard in the pi and boot it. A startup application
          > will read and/or copy the configuration files from the FAT partition to
          > the system disk, do some preconfiguration work and then the pi can start
          > doing its thing.
          >
          >
          > I guess this would be a setup that is pretty generic for a lot of
          > different applications.
          >
          >
          > Concerning the preconfiguration scripts, most of them would be pretty
          > specific for the application, but there are some that might be generic
          > and reusable. (I'm thinking of scripts to configure a fixed ip-address
          > on a pi; which is pretty important if you have an application that
          > depends on portforwarding on the router).
          >
          >
          >
          > Any ideas of comments? Is there who already has experience with this?
          > Any pointers to existing documentation on how to do this?
          >
          >
          >
          > 73
          > kristoff - ON1ARF


        • Jim Thisdale
          Nothing wrong with using off the shelf and piecing things together, especially for experimenting.... When I read your 1st posting I thought you were looking
          Message 4 of 17 , May 14, 2013
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            Nothing wrong with using off the shelf and piecing things together, especially for experimenting....

            When I read your 1st posting I thought you were looking for ideas for an IDEAL system platform.

            Windows/DOS has some difficulties when it comes to unsupported partitions. It might work on newer
            versions like 7.

            Note also that the Raspbian & Fedora Remix 18 images once written to the sdcard fail gparted disk
            check on the 1st partition (FAT16), and I haven't found a way to fix it either and still have it
            boot & mount the partitions.

            -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
            Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
            http://n1jmm.no-ip.org

            On 5/14/13 5:35 PM, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
            >
            >
            > Jim,
            >
            >
            > I know this is a question of taste, but I personally prefer using off-the-shelf components.
            >
            > They are not perfect but they have 4 big advantages:
            > - they are easy to find (no "single source" issue as we have had on a number of other ham projects)
            > - they are cheap
            > - there is a lot of support for them
            > - they are reusable. If you bought a Pi for a ham project and you are not interested anymore; you
            > can still reuse it as a XBMC mediaplayer (or whatever).
            >
            >
            > Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the Pi is perfect. It's not.
            > And I do not have anything against designing home-build systems.
            >
            >
            > But, ... they are there and they get the job done.
            >
            >
            >
            > BTW. Concerning your remark on the VFAT partition. I wasn't aware of that.
            > Thanks.
            >
            > But you are also correct there is more then sufficient place on the boot partition (i.e. the first
            > partition of the SDcard): 38 Mbyte That should be enough to store a couple of config-files.
            > I did like your idea to put the configuration on a USB flashdrive. This would also provide
            > sufficient space for the application to dump its logfiles.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 73
            > Kristoff - ON1ARF
          • Kerry McKenzie
            Kristoff and Jim please accept my apologizes for not replying to your post sooner i have it all carefully printed out here and am working through it. I will
            Message 5 of 17 , May 17, 2013
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              Kristoff and Jim
              please accept my apologizes for not replying to your post sooner i have
              it all carefully printed out here and am working through it.
              I will reply properly very shortly (very time poor these last couple of
              weeks)
              However i would like to acknowledge that i have received you information
              and advice and for that i am very grateful for you to take the time out
              and help me out with the pi.
              The positive help i have recieved from the list and a very patient
              friend in Canada has been nothing short of amazing and my downstairs
              radio shack
              has now become a PI emporium!

              Your help is very much appreciated...Kerry


              Kristoff Bonne wrote:
              > Kerry,
              >
              >
              > On 14-05-13 20:03, Kerry McKenzie wrote:
              >
              >> Hi Jim
              >> yes I'm an expert with setups ;-)) and have re burned so many images
              >> from scratch, and have five 8gig cards and five raspberry pies for the
              >> purpose.
              >> I can even compare files between one pi and the next and have 2 monitors
              >> and keyboards etc setup opposite one another so I can compare screens.
              >> So i can get a Pi going no problem there,.. and can ssh or xrdp into it
              >> from all my windoze boxes without a problem. I just cannot use the
              >> bloody things for what i want ie ham radio stuff.
              >>
              >> My web server is current appache and is running in an xp enviroment and
              >> shares the windows fbb bbs.
              >>
              >> I have setup an owncloud headless PI as it was the only prepared image
              >> that i could find on the web,... but cannot see it from the outside
              >> although i have made the ports accessible via my router however i can
              >> http into it from within my network and upload file and create folders
              >> etc, and even setup users.
              >> But it does not exist where i need it on the outside, and because linux
              >> scatters files all over the place makes it very difficult once again to
              >> fault find.
              >>
              > Troubleshooting this kind of issues is pretty easy on linux.
              >
              > Like with any network issue, start with the lowest OSI layers. In this
              > case, layer 3, does the packets arrive on your server.
              >
              > On linux, there is a tool called "tcpdump", which allows you to sniff
              > all the traffic on your network.
              >
              > In this case, do "sudo tcpdump -n -i eth0 port 80"
              > ("-n" means no DNS resolving of names, "-i eth0" is the interface on
              > which you want to sniff", "port 80" is a filter, which means all traffic
              > from/to TCP or UDP port 80).
              >
              > Make a connection from inside your network and you should see the http
              > session.
              > If you try to connect from the outside world and you do not see an
              > incoming tcp session, you know that the traffic probably does not enter
              > your network and you have to look at your router. (if it is a
              > linux-based router -like openwrt of ddwrt- you can also do "tcpdump" on
              > that box, on both interfaces).
              >
              > If the traffic does not come in, you need to look at your pi.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >> Dont know if you know owncloud at all but it runs the free sql edition
              >> and apache and it is I would imagine just a matter of finding appache
              >> and configuring it to see the outside via my vk4tub.no-ip.org account.
              >> I have a friend in Canada who is also helping with a version of fbb that
              >> he setup for me and I am trying to find my way around that right now as
              >> i have some forwarding issues with it.
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >> I am having difficulies with the fact that linux scatters files
              >> everywhere and you have to know the paths and where things are kept in
              >> order to fault find problems.
              >>
              > It depends on where the application descides to look for files.
              >
              >
              > Either look at the startup scripts (/etc/init.d/... and
              > /etc/default/...). Sometimes the configuration-files are passed to the
              > application when starting, via a cli. Do "ps auxw | grep
              > name-of-application" if there are no CLI parameters there.
              >
              > There are still other options, like "lsof" ("list of open files") which
              > is a system utility that gives a list of all files that are open by all
              > application.
              >
              > Even more further down is starting the application with "strace" which
              > will start an application but -at the same time- provide a dump of all
              > system calls issues by the application. As a "open file" is a
              > systemcall, you will see see it pop up somewhere (but you need to some
              > tricks to grab the output of strace and be able to search in it).
              > Another trick is using the "proc filesystem", which means that if you go
              > to "/proc/processnumber/ ..." there is a lot of information there like
              > system-parameters, dumps of memory, pointers to all open files, etc.
              >
              >
              > Once you get to know linux; there are really some very powerfull tools
              > which really allow you to look inside application. :-)
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >> None of my books cover this and hence many of my problems stem from the
              >> fact that i want to run radio projects and not games or programming as
              >> this is well covered in all the pie books I have.
              >> I am very disappointed with the fact that these are advertised as
              >> learning tools for school children and one automatically assumes that
              >> they will be a simple thing to use.
              >>
              > As there are some unix application that can have more then 20 years of
              > history, they all have their own way of doing things. :-)
              >
              >
              > Unix has more then 40 years of history and linux is a merge of two
              > different families of unix each with their own history. Plus that unix
              > has a saying "there are usually 10 ways to do something". E.g. linux has
              > at least 4 different audio-systems (which means that every one has its
              > own API), I don't know how much different filesystems; applications can
              > log events via their own system or use the "syslog" deamon process for
              > that, etc.
              >
              >
              > My first experience with this kind of computing was when we ran
              > something called "OS9" on a tandy color computer (not macOS9, but OS9
              > based on the 6809 CPU). There was a book that came with it that really
              > explained how the guys wrote their OS. (I came across that book about a
              > year ago, looking at it now, you could really see that the book was
              > written by the same guys who actually made OS9 themselfs and you could
              > really see the feeling of "pride" when reading it).
              > Anycase, it was a very interesting book because it really explained a
              > lot about what an OS is and what it does: resource management, memory
              > management, CPU management, task management, I/O operations,
              > compilers/linkers/assemblers/debuggers/..., or something like "what does
              > a computer do what it is booted", ...) Later I had unix at school where
              > we learned things like inter-process communication, networking,
              > programming APIs and what have you.
              >
              > You might not strickly need it to run a system, but it does give you a
              > background to know what your computer is doing and why. And it helps you
              > understand that -yes- there are usually 10 ways to get things done. So,
              > if you work on a system with decades of history and applications that
              > even date back to the beginning of the internet; you do expect them all
              > to have their own history and there own way of doing things. :-)
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 73
              > Kristoff - ON1ARF
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > (Please trim inclusions from previous messages) Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              > .
              >
              >


              --
              Kind Regards
              Kerry McKenzie

              PO Box 4492
              Kirwan QLD 4817
              Australia
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