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framework for self-starting ham application images on Raspberry pi

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  • Kristoff Bonne
    Hi, I am now working on the build your own echolink node with a raspberry pi project. The final goal would be to come to a system that is as easy as possible
    Message 1 of 17 , May 13, 2013
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      Hi,


      I am now working on the "build your own echolink node with a raspberry
      pi" project.
      The final goal would be to come to a system that is as easy as possible
      to use. Something as simple as "insert a SD card in the Raspberry pi,
      connect the cables, boot and go".


      But, I guess this would not only be usefull for my project. In fact,
      this probably applies to all "headless" applications (i.e. applications
      that do not need user input/output via keyboard or screen) and quite a
      number of the ham-projects are like that: D-STAR repeaters/hotspots,
      APRS nodes, WSPR listeners, repeater controllers, APRS weather stations,
      c2gmsk modem, etc.
      In all these cases, we just need a radio, some butons, (in some cases)
      an IP connection (read: ethernet) and ... a configuration file for the
      application; but no screen or keyboard.



      So, would it not be usefull to create a generic framework for this, or
      an overall document that describes how to build such a setup? This could
      be usefull for a lot of different projects.



      My idea would be this:
      - a SD card with three partitions: the two normal partitions (boot +
      system) and an additional FAT partition.
      - the addition partition would contain the configuration files for the
      application involved and (perhaps) some system configurations.
      - The diskimage can be directly copied to a SD card (as you would do to
      install raspbian).
      - The user would then just need to modify the files on the extra
      partition. As it FAT formatted, it can be read on any computer that has
      a SD card reader (even windows. :-) )
      - Then, insert the SDcard in the pi and boot it. A startup application
      will read and/or copy the configuration files from the FAT partition to
      the system disk, do some preconfiguration work and then the pi can start
      doing its thing.


      I guess this would be a setup that is pretty generic for a lot of
      different applications.


      Concerning the preconfiguration scripts, most of them would be pretty
      specific for the application, but there are some that might be generic
      and reusable. (I'm thinking of scripts to configure a fixed ip-address
      on a pi; which is pretty important if you have an application that
      depends on portforwarding on the router).



      Any ideas of comments? Is there who already has experience with this?
      Any pointers to existing documentation on how to do this?



      73
      kristoff - ON1ARF
    • John D. Hays
      Kristoff, It sounds like a pretty good idea. One thing we are doing at NW Digital Radio is implementing command, control, and
      Message 2 of 17 , May 13, 2013
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        Kristoff,

        It sounds like a pretty good idea.  One thing we are doing at NW Digital Radio is implementing command, control, and monitoring using websocket technology, specifically using node.js to provide asynchronous services.

        Almost every application has configuration and monitoring requirements. The web browser is the universal GUI agent.  The problem, in the past, has been having real-time, 2-way interaction with the backend without the submit/refresh paradigm.  Websockets provides a way to take advantage of the ubiquity of web browsers to configure, control, and monitor your headless appliance.

        Seed information in a FAT partition makes sense (e.g. what IP address to come up on, etc.), but more complex configuration and monitoring via the web, would make such appliances much more friendly.





        John D. Hays
        K7VE
        PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
          


        On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Kristoff Bonne <kristoff@...> wrote:
         

        Hi,

        I am now working on the "build your own echolink node with a raspberry
        pi" project.
        The final goal would be to come to a system that is as easy as possible
        to use. Something as simple as "insert a SD card in the Raspberry pi,
        connect the cables, boot and go".

        But, I guess this would not only be usefull for my project. In fact,
        this probably applies to all "headless" applications (i.e. applications
        that do not need user input/output via keyboard or screen) and quite a
        number of the ham-projects are like that: D-STAR repeaters/hotspots,
        APRS nodes, WSPR listeners, repeater controllers, APRS weather stations,
        c2gmsk modem, etc.
        In all these cases, we just need a radio, some butons, (in some cases)
        an IP connection (read: ethernet) and ... a configuration file for the
        application; but no screen or keyboard.

        So, would it not be usefull to create a generic framework for this, or
        an overall document that describes how to build such a setup? This could
        be usefull for a lot of different projects.

        My idea would be this:
        - a SD card with three partitions: the two normal partitions (boot +
        system) and an additional FAT partition.
        - the addition partition would contain the configuration files for the
        application involved and (perhaps) some system configurations.
        - The diskimage can be directly copied to a SD card (as you would do to
        install raspbian).
        - The user would then just need to modify the files on the extra
        partition. As it FAT formatted, it can be read on any computer that has
        a SD card reader (even windows. :-) )
        - Then, insert the SDcard in the pi and boot it. A startup application
        will read and/or copy the configuration files from the FAT partition to
        the system disk, do some preconfiguration work and then the pi can start
        doing its thing.

        I guess this would be a setup that is pretty generic for a lot of
        different applications.

        Concerning the preconfiguration scripts, most of them would be pretty
        specific for the application, but there are some that might be generic
        and reusable. (I'm thinking of scripts to configure a fixed ip-address
        on a pi; which is pretty important if you have an application that
        depends on portforwarding on the router).

        Any ideas of comments? Is there who already has experience with this?
        Any pointers to existing documentation on how to do this?

        73
        kristoff - ON1ARF


      • Jim Thisdale
        Note, dos/windows (older versions at least) generally don t mount partitions after any partition it can t read... 1st is fat 16, 2nd is linux ext4 which
        Message 3 of 17 , May 13, 2013
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          Note, dos/windows (older versions at least) generally don't mount partitions after any partition it
          can't read... 1st is fat 16, 2nd is linux ext4 which windows won't mount, 3rd or more won't be
          mounted, so creating a 3rd partition for config files is probably not going to work for most windows
          users. However, there is no reason a small configuration file couldn't be added to the first (FAT16)
          partition.


          Ideas for framework of small computer board:

          Eliminate the SDcard completely and have on board flash memory, lets go for a gigabyte....

          connections for programmer?

          open source firmware/OS if possible

          include a basic http interface, much like a consumer wifi router has... with backup/load capability.

          do all configuration/loading over Ethernet.

          hit the reset button and be up and running....

          should have a few usb host slots... (sound fobs, memory stick)

          would be good to have it powered by 12-15vdc like our radios, makes for easy reliable power source.

          expansion connector for modem board(s)

          some basic led indicators. (ability to disable lights to conserve power use)

          some basic I/O would be handy:
          - few channels of A/D input say 0 - 5vdc range
          - maybe a few channels of D/A output, 0 - 5vdc?
          - microphone input
          - speaker output
          - digital inputs, +5 vdc with optional internal pull-ups to make for easy switch hookup.
          - digital outputs, +5 vdc, with optional internal pull-ups, probably open collector to ground
          suitable for radio ptt or relay sinking.
          - ???

          Any other suggestions ?

          -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
          Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
          http://n1jmm.no-ip.org

          On 5/13/13 5:54 PM, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
          > Hi,
          >
          >
          > I am now working on the "build your own echolink node with a raspberry
          > pi" project.
          > The final goal would be to come to a system that is as easy as possible
          > to use. Something as simple as "insert a SD card in the Raspberry pi,
          > connect the cables, boot and go".
          >
          >
          > But, I guess this would not only be usefull for my project. In fact,
          > this probably applies to all "headless" applications (i.e. applications
          > that do not need user input/output via keyboard or screen) and quite a
          > number of the ham-projects are like that: D-STAR repeaters/hotspots,
          > APRS nodes, WSPR listeners, repeater controllers, APRS weather stations,
          > c2gmsk modem, etc.
          > In all these cases, we just need a radio, some butons, (in some cases)
          > an IP connection (read: ethernet) and ... a configuration file for the
          > application; but no screen or keyboard.
          >
          >
          >
          > So, would it not be usefull to create a generic framework for this, or
          > an overall document that describes how to build such a setup? This could
          > be usefull for a lot of different projects.
          >
          >
          >
          > My idea would be this:
          > - a SD card with three partitions: the two normal partitions (boot +
          > system) and an additional FAT partition.
          > - the addition partition would contain the configuration files for the
          > application involved and (perhaps) some system configurations.
          > - The diskimage can be directly copied to a SD card (as you would do to
          > install raspbian).
          > - The user would then just need to modify the files on the extra
          > partition. As it FAT formatted, it can be read on any computer that has
          > a SD card reader (even windows. :-) )
          > - Then, insert the SDcard in the pi and boot it. A startup application
          > will read and/or copy the configuration files from the FAT partition to
          > the system disk, do some preconfiguration work and then the pi can start
          > doing its thing.
          >
          >
          > I guess this would be a setup that is pretty generic for a lot of
          > different applications.
          >
          >
          > Concerning the preconfiguration scripts, most of them would be pretty
          > specific for the application, but there are some that might be generic
          > and reusable. (I'm thinking of scripts to configure a fixed ip-address
          > on a pi; which is pretty important if you have an application that
          > depends on portforwarding on the router).
          >
          >
          >
          > Any ideas of comments? Is there who already has experience with this?
          > Any pointers to existing documentation on how to do this?
          >
          >
          >
          > 73
          > kristoff - ON1ARF
        • Jim Thisdale
          Another option for configuration would be to have device/appliance look for a USB memory stick with specific files on power-up/reset. If ip.txt is found, load
          Message 4 of 17 , May 13, 2013
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            Another option for configuration would be to have device/appliance look for a USB memory stick with
            specific files on power-up/reset. If ip.txt is found, load the ip address, if image.txt found load
            the program image file into flash and start it. Filenames may have to be tweaked. Memory stick could
            be in write-protect mode for security.

            Another method (possibly more complicated, remember doing this is firmware/BIOS/POST) would be to
            have the device get its address via DHCP. (put it's MAC address on a label/sticker) so a DHCP server
            could be programmed to issue a specific address.

            -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
            Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
            http://n1jmm.no-ip.org

            On 5/13/13 5:54 PM, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
            > Hi,
            >
            >
            > I am now working on the "build your own echolink node with a raspberry
            > pi" project.
            > The final goal would be to come to a system that is as easy as possible
            > to use. Something as simple as "insert a SD card in the Raspberry pi,
            > connect the cables, boot and go".
            >
          • Kerry McKenzie
            Greetings all this would be an excellent idea for persons such as myself who are unable to grasp the basics of linux. I have five raspberry PI s and books
            Message 5 of 17 , May 14, 2013
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              Greetings all
              this would be an excellent idea for persons such as myself who are
              unable to grasp the basics of linux.
              I have five raspberry PI's and books galore,....wasted countless printer
              cartridges, reams of paper, two TNC PI's and cant get a god dam single
              radio project to work yet and it is now 5 months.

              So yes please if you have a plug and play option to get simple projects
              off the ground like fbb packet radio or a lamp server,....I will be
              first in the que!!!

              Bring it on!

              --
              Kind Regards
              Kerry McKenzie

              PO Box 4492
              Kirwan QLD 4817
              Australia
            • siegfried jackstien
              ... Line in should be in stereo (for using with sdr hardware that gives i/q signals) Dg9bfc Sigi
              Message 6 of 17 , May 14, 2013
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                > Ideas for framework of small computer board:
                >
                > Eliminate the SDcard completely and have on board flash memory, lets go
                > for a gigabyte....
                >
                > connections for programmer?
                >
                > open source firmware/OS if possible
                >
                > include a basic http interface, much like a consumer wifi router has...
                > with backup/load capability.
                >
                > do all configuration/loading over Ethernet.
                >
                > hit the reset button and be up and running....
                >
                > should have a few usb host slots... (sound fobs, memory stick)
                >
                > would be good to have it powered by 12-15vdc like our radios, makes for
                > easy reliable power source.
                >
                > expansion connector for modem board(s)
                >
                > some basic led indicators. (ability to disable lights to conserve power
                > use)
                >
                > some basic I/O would be handy:
                > - few channels of A/D input say 0 - 5vdc range
                > - maybe a few channels of D/A output, 0 - 5vdc?
                > - microphone input
                > - speaker output
                > - digital inputs, +5 vdc with optional internal pull-ups to make for easy
                > switch hookup.
                > - digital outputs, +5 vdc, with optional internal pull-ups, probably open
                > collector to ground
                > suitable for radio ptt or relay sinking.
                > - ???
                >
                > Any other suggestions ?

                Line in should be in stereo (for using with sdr hardware that gives i/q
                signals)

                Dg9bfc

                Sigi
              • John B. Cundiff Jr.
                He better not talk two loudly or the big radio makers will say it was their idea first . From: Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 17 , May 14, 2013
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                  He better not talk two loudly or the big radio makers will  say it was their idea first .

                   

                  From: Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of siegfried jackstien
                  Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 9:35 AM
                  To: Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: AW: [Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO] framework for self-starting ham application images on Raspberry pi

                   

                   

                  > Ideas for framework of small computer board:

                  >
                  > Eliminate the SDcard completely and have on board flash memory, lets go
                  > for a gigabyte....
                  >
                  > connections for programmer?
                  >
                  > open source firmware/OS if possible
                  >
                  > include a basic http interface, much like a consumer wifi router has...
                  > with backup/load capability.
                  >
                  > do all configuration/loading over Ethernet.
                  >
                  > hit the reset button and be up and running....
                  >
                  > should have a few usb host slots... (sound fobs, memory stick)
                  >
                  > would be good to have it powered by 12-15vdc like our radios, makes for
                  > easy reliable power source.
                  >
                  > expansion connector for modem board(s)
                  >
                  > some basic led indicators. (ability to disable lights to conserve power
                  > use)
                  >
                  > some basic I/O would be handy:
                  > - few channels of A/D input say 0 - 5vdc range
                  > - maybe a few channels of D/A output, 0 - 5vdc?
                  > - microphone input
                  > - speaker output
                  > - digital inputs, +5 vdc with optional internal pull-ups to make for easy
                  > switch hookup.
                  > - digital outputs, +5 vdc, with optional internal pull-ups, probably open
                  > collector to ground
                  > suitable for radio ptt or relay sinking.
                  > - ???
                  >
                  > Any other suggestions ?

                  Line in should be in stereo (for using with sdr hardware that gives i/q
                  signals)

                  Dg9bfc

                  Sigi

                • Jim Thisdale
                  Hi Kerry Have you been able to get Raspbian Hard Float image onto a card and boot it yet? If so we can work on the rest, I have a lot more than LAMP running
                  Message 8 of 17 , May 14, 2013
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                    Hi Kerry

                    Have you been able to get "Raspbian Hard Float" image onto a card and boot it yet?

                    If so we can work on the rest, I have a lot more than LAMP running on mine. See my website.

                    If you can get Raspbian up and running and open the SSH port through your router I could remote in
                    and setup the Apache, (My)SQL, & PHP.

                    -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
                    Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
                    http://n1jmm.no-ip.org

                    On 5/14/13 5:38 AM, Kerry McKenzie wrote:
                    > Greetings all
                    > this would be an excellent idea for persons such as myself who are
                    > unable to grasp the basics of linux.
                    > I have five raspberry PI's and books galore,....wasted countless printer
                    > cartridges, reams of paper, two TNC PI's and cant get a god dam single
                    > radio project to work yet and it is now 5 months.
                    >
                    > So yes please if you have a plug and play option to get simple projects
                    > off the ground like fbb packet radio or a lamp server,....I will be
                    > first in the que!!!
                    >
                    > Bring it on!
                    >
                  • Kristoff Bonne
                    Hi John, all, Thank you all for replying. I understand your point about the Universal digital radio you are working on. However, the pi is a bit a different
                    Message 9 of 17 , May 14, 2013
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                      Hi John, all,


                      Thank you all for replying.



                      I understand your point about the Universal digital radio you are working on.


                      However, the pi is a bit a different setup. The UDR is a generic radio / computing platform that can do all kind of stuff; so configuring it via a GUI makes sence.
                      For me, the RPi is ideal as part of a "kit": a hardware kit (pi, radio, interfaces, ...), software and configuration. As the pi boots of a flashcard, you can create dedicated SD cards for one particular purpose.
                      And, concidering the price of the RPi, it should not be an issue to just keep a pi dedicated for one particular project.


                      Concidering the low power-consumption, this would make it ideal for emergengy communication project: create a kit for a particular purpose (repeater, linknode, aprs node, ...) beforehand, go onsite, install, boot the devices and start the service.
                      It would also help people like Kerry to start using the pi as a device without having to know all the insides and outsides of linux.

                      The only annoying aspect here is "configuration". FInd an easy way to configure such a device, using as few as possible external components as possible. (so no networking, no DHCP servers, no bootp). Keep it simple.
                      The proposal of putting the configuration on a extra USB stick that Jim proposed is also interesting. (if there is a USB slot available for it). At least, it would provide for a lot more space. This is probably not be necessairy for configuration purposes, but it be usefull to store logfiles.




                      Now, my proposal was to see if we could not come up with a generic framework.
                      The goal is to allow a developers who has just created a ham-related application based on the pi, to go to some website and follow a couple of steps and end up with a .iso file of a self-contained system that users can download, reconfigure, boot and start using it.


                      My idea was a document (a wiki?) with information like:
                      - a generic description of a self-contained system (where to put the config-files, ...)
                      - examples of scripts that can be used during startup of a self-contained system + information where to put them in /etc/init.d and /etc/rc2.d to do their work
                      - information like "ok, I now have a running system on a pi, how do I create a .iso that users can just download"
                      - (perhaps) ...
                      etc.


                      So, I do not want to create a complete configuration system for everything. I do not believe in these "one system to rule them all" approach.
                      The goal is just to provide with the basic information and a couple of basic tools to allow a developer to create a "kit" for one particular purpose; using (in this case) the pi as computing device.



                      73
                      kristoff - ON1ARF


                      On 14-05-13 00:26, John D. Hays wrote:
                       
                      Kristoff,

                      It sounds like a pretty good idea.  One thing we are doing at NW Digital Radio is implementing command, control, and monitoring using websocket technology, specifically using node.js to provide asynchronous services.

                      Almost every application has configuration and monitoring requirements. The web browser is the universal GUI agent.  The problem, in the past, has been having real-time, 2-way interaction with the backend without the submit/refresh paradigm.  Websockets provides a way to take advantage of the ubiquity of web browsers to configure, control, and monitor your headless appliance.

                      Seed information in a FAT partition makes sense (e.g. what IP address to come up on, etc.), but more complex configuration and monitoring via the web, would make such appliances much more friendly.





                      John D. Hays
                      K7VE
                      PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
                        


                      On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Kristoff Bonne <kristoff@...> wrote:
                       

                      Hi,

                      I am now working on the "build your own echolink node with a raspberry
                      pi" project.
                      The final goal would be to come to a system that is as easy as possible
                      to use. Something as simple as "insert a SD card in the Raspberry pi,
                      connect the cables, boot and go".

                      But, I guess this would not only be usefull for my project. In fact,
                      this probably applies to all "headless" applications (i.e. applications
                      that do not need user input/output via keyboard or screen) and quite a
                      number of the ham-projects are like that: D-STAR repeaters/hotspots,
                      APRS nodes, WSPR listeners, repeater controllers, APRS weather stations,
                      c2gmsk modem, etc.
                      In all these cases, we just need a radio, some butons, (in some cases)
                      an IP connection (read: ethernet) and ... a configuration file for the
                      application; but no screen or keyboard.

                      So, would it not be usefull to create a generic framework for this, or
                      an overall document that describes how to build such a setup? This could
                      be usefull for a lot of different projects.

                      My idea would be this:
                      - a SD card with three partitions: the two normal partitions (boot +
                      system) and an additional FAT partition.
                      - the addition partition would contain the configuration files for the
                      application involved and (perhaps) some system configurations.
                      - The diskimage can be directly copied to a SD card (as you would do to
                      install raspbian).
                      - The user would then just need to modify the files on the extra
                      partition. As it FAT formatted, it can be read on any computer that has
                      a SD card reader (even windows. :-) )
                      - Then, insert the SDcard in the pi and boot it. A startup application
                      will read and/or copy the configuration files from the FAT partition to
                      the system disk, do some preconfiguration work and then the pi can start
                      doing its thing.

                      I guess this would be a setup that is pretty generic for a lot of
                      different applications.

                      Concerning the preconfiguration scripts, most of them would be pretty
                      specific for the application, but there are some that might be generic
                      and reusable. (I'm thinking of scripts to configure a fixed ip-address
                      on a pi; which is pretty important if you have an application that
                      depends on portforwarding on the router).

                      Any ideas of comments? Is there who already has experience with this?
                      Any pointers to existing documentation on how to do this?

                      73
                      kristoff - ON1ARF



                    • Kristoff Bonne
                      Jim, That s indeed the idea. - a generic description of the system: - you place the config files in that folder on that device (boot partition of flashcard?
                      Message 10 of 17 , May 14, 2013
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                        Jim,

                        That's indeed the idea.

                        - a generic description of the system:

                        -> you place the config files in that folder on that device (boot partition of flashcard? Additional USB flashdisk, ...)
                        -> if a file "ipnetwork" exists, it's a network configuration. The system will override /etc/network/interfaces are restart the network
                        -> if a file "configs" exist, it contains a list of configuration files that are copied to the system disk
                        -> if a file "application" exist, it contains a list of applications that will be started, in that order".
                        ...

                        - a couple of demo scripts to get started.



                        73
                        Kristoff - ON1ARF



                        On 14-05-13 07:46, Jim Thisdale wrote:
                         

                        Another option for configuration would be to have device/appliance look for a USB memory stick with
                        specific files on power-up/reset. If ip.txt is found, load the ip address, if image.txt found load
                        the program image file into flash and start it. Filenames may have to be tweaked. Memory stick could
                        be in write-protect mode for security.

                        Another method (possibly more complicated, remember doing this is firmware/BIOS/POST) would be to
                        have the device get its address via DHCP. (put it's MAC address on a label/sticker) so a DHCP server
                        could be programmed to issue a specific address.

                        -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
                        Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
                        http://n1jmm.no-ip.org

                        On 5/13/13 5:54 PM, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
                        > Hi,
                        >
                        >
                        > I am now working on the "build your own echolink node with a raspberry
                        > pi" project.
                        > The final goal would be to come to a system that is as easy as possible
                        > to use. Something as simple as "insert a SD card in the Raspberry pi,
                        > connect the cables, boot and go".
                        >


                      • Kerry McKenzie
                        Hi Jim yes I m an expert with setups ;-)) and have re burned so many images from scratch, and have five 8gig cards and five raspberry pies for the purpose. I
                        Message 11 of 17 , May 14, 2013
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                          Hi Jim
                          yes I'm an expert with setups ;-)) and have re burned so many images
                          from scratch, and have five 8gig cards and five raspberry pies for the
                          purpose.
                          I can even compare files between one pi and the next and have 2 monitors
                          and keyboards etc setup opposite one another so I can compare screens.
                          So i can get a Pi going no problem there,.. and can ssh or xrdp into it
                          from all my windoze boxes without a problem. I just cannot use the
                          bloody things for what i want ie ham radio stuff.

                          My web server is current appache and is running in an xp enviroment and
                          shares the windows fbb bbs.

                          I have setup an owncloud headless PI as it was the only prepared image
                          that i could find on the web,... but cannot see it from the outside
                          although i have made the ports accessible via my router however i can
                          http into it from within my network and upload file and create folders
                          etc, and even setup users.
                          But it does not exist where i need it on the outside, and because linux
                          scatters files all over the place makes it very difficult once again to
                          fault find.

                          Dont know if you know owncloud at all but it runs the free sql edition
                          and apache and it is I would imagine just a matter of finding appache
                          and configuring it to see the outside via my vk4tub.no-ip.org account.
                          I have a friend in Canada who is also helping with a version of fbb that
                          he setup for me and I am trying to find my way around that right now as
                          i have some forwarding issues with it.
                          I am having difficulies with the fact that linux scatters files
                          everywhere and you have to know the paths and where things are kept in
                          order to fault find problems.
                          None of my books cover this and hence many of my problems stem from the
                          fact that i want to run radio projects and not games or programming as
                          this is well covered in all the pie books I have.

                          I am very disappointed with the fact that these are advertised as
                          learning tools for school children and one automatically assumes that
                          they will be a simple thing to use.
                          Misleading for a beginner like myself and also I have not successfully
                          got anything to actually work on the pi myself and still nothing after 5
                          months which is pretty poor meaning I am either a total idiot or it is
                          simply beyond the average person.
                          If it wasn't for the fact that someone else kindly setup fbb for me i
                          would have no hope, compiling all the stuff needed for the pie was a
                          huge learning curve on its own and I had spent months trying.
                          And while I am on it i have searched the web for countless hours looking
                          for this magic repository where all these program's are available for
                          the PI but have never yet found anywhere to download them or where it
                          actually is.
                          I have covered pie for beginners, the actual pie site itself and many
                          other places but am lost as to actually where i can download this software.
                          Apparently you can just type "apt-get" and it magically appears ,...but
                          im aftraid the batteries in my magic wand must be flat ;-)) as i cannot
                          get a dam thing?

                          So Jim right now after all this time I, and effort will except help from
                          absolutely anyone, and in the end i hope that one day it would be nice
                          to actually get something to a work myself on one of these god dam
                          cursed boxes.
                          As I can see the day coming very soon where the whole lot will become
                          wheel chocks for my car.

                          So thank you sincerely for your offer and i will gladly take you up on
                          that, i will go and check the link you have provided and thank you
                          again.......Kerry



                          Jim Thisdale wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Kerry
                          >
                          > Have you been able to get "Raspbian Hard Float" image onto a card and
                          > boot it yet?
                          >
                          > If so we can work on the rest, I have a lot more than LAMP running on
                          > mine. See my website.
                          >
                          > If you can get Raspbian up and running and open the SSH port through
                          > your router I could remote in
                          > and setup the Apache, (My)SQL, & PHP.
                          >
                          > -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
                          > Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
                          > http://n1jmm.no-ip.org
                          >
                          > On 5/14/13 5:38 AM, Kerry McKenzie wrote:
                          > > Greetings all
                          > > this would be an excellent idea for persons such as myself who are
                          > > unable to grasp the basics of linux.
                          > > I have five raspberry PI's and books galore,....wasted countless printer
                          > > cartridges, reams of paper, two TNC PI's and cant get a god dam single
                          > > radio project to work yet and it is now 5 months.
                          > >
                          > > So yes please if you have a plug and play option to get simple projects
                          > > off the ground like fbb packet radio or a lamp server,....I will be
                          > > first in the que!!!
                          > >
                          > > Bring it on!
                          > >
                          >
                          >


                          --
                          Kind Regards
                          Kerry McKenzie

                          PO Box 4492
                          Kirwan QLD 4817
                          Australia
                        • Kristoff Bonne
                          Kerry, ... Troubleshooting this kind of issues is pretty easy on linux. Like with any network issue, start with the lowest OSI layers. In this case, layer 3,
                          Message 12 of 17 , May 14, 2013
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                            Kerry,


                            On 14-05-13 20:03, Kerry McKenzie wrote:
                            > Hi Jim
                            > yes I'm an expert with setups ;-)) and have re burned so many images
                            > from scratch, and have five 8gig cards and five raspberry pies for the
                            > purpose.
                            > I can even compare files between one pi and the next and have 2 monitors
                            > and keyboards etc setup opposite one another so I can compare screens.
                            > So i can get a Pi going no problem there,.. and can ssh or xrdp into it
                            > from all my windoze boxes without a problem. I just cannot use the
                            > bloody things for what i want ie ham radio stuff.
                            >
                            > My web server is current appache and is running in an xp enviroment and
                            > shares the windows fbb bbs.
                            >
                            > I have setup an owncloud headless PI as it was the only prepared image
                            > that i could find on the web,... but cannot see it from the outside
                            > although i have made the ports accessible via my router however i can
                            > http into it from within my network and upload file and create folders
                            > etc, and even setup users.
                            > But it does not exist where i need it on the outside, and because linux
                            > scatters files all over the place makes it very difficult once again to
                            > fault find.
                            Troubleshooting this kind of issues is pretty easy on linux.

                            Like with any network issue, start with the lowest OSI layers. In this
                            case, layer 3, does the packets arrive on your server.

                            On linux, there is a tool called "tcpdump", which allows you to sniff
                            all the traffic on your network.

                            In this case, do "sudo tcpdump -n -i eth0 port 80"
                            ("-n" means no DNS resolving of names, "-i eth0" is the interface on
                            which you want to sniff", "port 80" is a filter, which means all traffic
                            from/to TCP or UDP port 80).

                            Make a connection from inside your network and you should see the http
                            session.
                            If you try to connect from the outside world and you do not see an
                            incoming tcp session, you know that the traffic probably does not enter
                            your network and you have to look at your router. (if it is a
                            linux-based router -like openwrt of ddwrt- you can also do "tcpdump" on
                            that box, on both interfaces).

                            If the traffic does not come in, you need to look at your pi.



                            >
                            > Dont know if you know owncloud at all but it runs the free sql edition
                            > and apache and it is I would imagine just a matter of finding appache
                            > and configuring it to see the outside via my vk4tub.no-ip.org account.
                            > I have a friend in Canada who is also helping with a version of fbb that
                            > he setup for me and I am trying to find my way around that right now as
                            > i have some forwarding issues with it.


                            > I am having difficulies with the fact that linux scatters files
                            > everywhere and you have to know the paths and where things are kept in
                            > order to fault find problems.
                            It depends on where the application descides to look for files.


                            Either look at the startup scripts (/etc/init.d/... and
                            /etc/default/...). Sometimes the configuration-files are passed to the
                            application when starting, via a cli. Do "ps auxw | grep
                            name-of-application" if there are no CLI parameters there.

                            There are still other options, like "lsof" ("list of open files") which
                            is a system utility that gives a list of all files that are open by all
                            application.

                            Even more further down is starting the application with "strace" which
                            will start an application but -at the same time- provide a dump of all
                            system calls issues by the application. As a "open file" is a
                            systemcall, you will see see it pop up somewhere (but you need to some
                            tricks to grab the output of strace and be able to search in it).
                            Another trick is using the "proc filesystem", which means that if you go
                            to "/proc/processnumber/ ..." there is a lot of information there like
                            system-parameters, dumps of memory, pointers to all open files, etc.


                            Once you get to know linux; there are really some very powerfull tools
                            which really allow you to look inside application. :-)





                            > None of my books cover this and hence many of my problems stem from the
                            > fact that i want to run radio projects and not games or programming as
                            > this is well covered in all the pie books I have.
                            > I am very disappointed with the fact that these are advertised as
                            > learning tools for school children and one automatically assumes that
                            > they will be a simple thing to use.
                            As there are some unix application that can have more then 20 years of
                            history, they all have their own way of doing things. :-)


                            Unix has more then 40 years of history and linux is a merge of two
                            different families of unix each with their own history. Plus that unix
                            has a saying "there are usually 10 ways to do something". E.g. linux has
                            at least 4 different audio-systems (which means that every one has its
                            own API), I don't know how much different filesystems; applications can
                            log events via their own system or use the "syslog" deamon process for
                            that, etc.


                            My first experience with this kind of computing was when we ran
                            something called "OS9" on a tandy color computer (not macOS9, but OS9
                            based on the 6809 CPU). There was a book that came with it that really
                            explained how the guys wrote their OS. (I came across that book about a
                            year ago, looking at it now, you could really see that the book was
                            written by the same guys who actually made OS9 themselfs and you could
                            really see the feeling of "pride" when reading it).
                            Anycase, it was a very interesting book because it really explained a
                            lot about what an OS is and what it does: resource management, memory
                            management, CPU management, task management, I/O operations,
                            compilers/linkers/assemblers/debuggers/..., or something like "what does
                            a computer do what it is booted", ...) Later I had unix at school where
                            we learned things like inter-process communication, networking,
                            programming APIs and what have you.

                            You might not strickly need it to run a system, but it does give you a
                            background to know what your computer is doing and why. And it helps you
                            understand that -yes- there are usually 10 ways to get things done. So,
                            if you work on a system with decades of history and applications that
                            even date back to the beginning of the internet; you do expect them all
                            to have their own history and there own way of doing things. :-)





                            73
                            Kristoff - ON1ARF
                          • Jim Thisdale
                            Hi Kerry I got to your vk4tub.no-ip.org website... Nothing about the Pis on there... Normally you would just forward port 80 to the machine running apache and
                            Message 13 of 17 , May 14, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi Kerry

                              I got to your vk4tub.no-ip.org website... Nothing about the Pis on there...

                              Normally you would just forward port 80 to the machine running apache and make sure the firewall is
                              open on that machine.

                              If you are looking to have more than one machine runnning apache you will have to use separate port
                              numbers, I typically use 81 for the 2nd machine.

                              vk4tub.no-ip.org:81

                              then do a port conversion of 81 to 80 in the router going to the address of the 2nd machine running
                              apache. This way I don't have ot change apache config to listen on a different port number, it is
                              all handled in the router.

                              No, I'm not familar with owncloud...

                              Webmin makes administering/config of many programs a lot easier.

                              How do you get to your owncloud server, do you use the http://<local-ip> method?
                              for external it would be something like:
                              http://vk4tub.no-ip.org:81
                              or
                              http://<internetaddress>:81
                              assuming you use port number 81 for the 2nd apache machine.

                              Perhaps owncloud requires a different port number by default.

                              In Linux many programs are NOT DOWNLOADED like in windows. You typically use a 'package manager' and
                              tell it what you want to install, it will get the required package files from the 'repository' and
                              install them (assuming all goes right.) There are some exceptions to this.

                              If I recall correctly you are probably about 13 to 15 hours ahead of me, I'm in Connecticut USA,
                              East Coast, Eastern Time Zone. I'm usually up fairly late, 12 - 2 am.

                              Can you get on DCS014 ?
                              actually you could either connect to my gateway, KB1YPL B or callsign route to me, N1JMM...

                              Also I'm on yahoo instant messanger and I could be on many others I just don't log into them unless
                              there is a need.

                              If you have one of the Pi's setup for SSH, XRDP, you can private email me the log in info and I will
                              help you.

                              -Jim-

                              -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
                              Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
                              http://n1jmm.no-ip.org

                              On 5/14/13 2:03 PM, Kerry McKenzie wrote:
                              > Hi Jim
                              > I have setup an owncloud headless PI as it was the only prepared image
                              > that i could find on the web,... but cannot see it from the outside
                              > although i have made the ports accessible via my router however i can
                              > http into it from within my network and upload file and create folders
                              > etc, and even setup users.
                              > But it does not exist where i need it on the outside, and because linux
                              > scatters files all over the place makes it very difficult once again to
                              > fault find.
                              >
                              > Dont know if you know owncloud at all but it runs the free sql edition
                              > and apache and it is I would imagine just a matter of finding appache
                              > and configuring it to see the outside via my vk4tub.no-ip.org account.
                              > I have a friend in Canada who is also helping with a version of fbb that
                              > he setup for me and I am trying to find my way around that right now as
                              > i have some forwarding issues with it.
                              > I am having difficulies with the fact that linux scatters files
                              > everywhere and you have to know the paths and where things are kept in
                              > order to fault find problems.
                              > None of my books cover this and hence many of my problems stem from the
                              > fact that i want to run radio projects and not games or programming as
                              > this is well covered in all the pie books I have.
                              >
                              > I am very disappointed with the fact that these are advertised as
                              > learning tools for school children and one automatically assumes that
                              > they will be a simple thing to use.
                              > Misleading for a beginner like myself and also I have not successfully
                              > got anything to actually work on the pi myself and still nothing after 5
                              > months which is pretty poor meaning I am either a total idiot or it is
                              > simply beyond the average person.
                              > If it wasn't for the fact that someone else kindly setup fbb for me i
                              > would have no hope, compiling all the stuff needed for the pie was a
                              > huge learning curve on its own and I had spent months trying.
                              > And while I am on it i have searched the web for countless hours looking
                              > for this magic repository where all these program's are available for
                              > the PI but have never yet found anywhere to download them or where it
                              > actually is.
                              > I have covered pie for beginners, the actual pie site itself and many
                              > other places but am lost as to actually where i can download this software.
                              > Apparently you can just type "apt-get" and it magically appears ,...but
                              > im aftraid the batteries in my magic wand must be flat ;-)) as i cannot
                              > get a dam thing?
                              >
                              > So Jim right now after all this time I, and effort will except help from
                              > absolutely anyone, and in the end i hope that one day it would be nice
                              > to actually get something to a work myself on one of these god dam
                              > cursed boxes.
                              > As I can see the day coming very soon where the whole lot will become
                              > wheel chocks for my car.
                              >
                              > So thank you sincerely for your offer and i will gladly take you up on
                              > that, i will go and check the link you have provided and thank you
                              > again.......Kerry
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Jim Thisdale wrote:
                              >>
                              >> Hi Kerry
                              >>
                              >> Have you been able to get "Raspbian Hard Float" image onto a card and
                              >> boot it yet?
                              >>
                              >> If so we can work on the rest, I have a lot more than LAMP running on
                              >> mine. See my website.
                              >>
                              >> If you can get Raspbian up and running and open the SSH port through
                              >> your router I could remote in
                              >> and setup the Apache, (My)SQL, & PHP.
                              >>
                              >> -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
                              >> Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
                              >> http://n1jmm.no-ip.org
                              >>
                              >> On 5/14/13 5:38 AM, Kerry McKenzie wrote:
                              >>> Greetings all
                              >>> this would be an excellent idea for persons such as myself who are
                              >>> unable to grasp the basics of linux.
                              >>> I have five raspberry PI's and books galore,....wasted countless printer
                              >>> cartridges, reams of paper, two TNC PI's and cant get a god dam single
                              >>> radio project to work yet and it is now 5 months.
                              >>>
                              >>> So yes please if you have a plug and play option to get simple projects
                              >>> off the ground like fbb packet radio or a lamp server,....I will be
                              >>> first in the que!!!
                              >>>
                              >>> Bring it on!
                              >>>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                            • Kristoff Bonne
                              Jim, (I send this message before but for reason it does not appear on the list. 2nd try). That s indeed the idea. - a generic description of the system: - you
                              Message 14 of 17 , May 14, 2013
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                                Jim,


                                (I send this message before but for reason it does not appear on the list. 2nd try).


                                That's indeed the idea.

                                - a generic description of the system:

                                -> you place the config files in that folder on that device (boot partition of flashcard? Additional USB flashdisk, ...)
                                -> if a file "ipnetwork" exists, it's a network configuration. The system will override /etc/network/interfaces are restart the network
                                -> if a file "configs" exist, it contains a list of configuration files that are copied to the system disk
                                -> if a file "application" exist, it contains a list of applications that will be started, in that order".
                                ...

                                - a couple of demo scripts to get started.



                                73
                                Kristoff - ON1ARF



                                On 14-05-13 07:46, Jim Thisdale wrote:
                                 

                                Another option for configuration would be to have device/appliance look for a USB memory stick with
                                specific files on power-up/reset. If ip.txt is found, load the ip address, if image.txt found load
                                the program image file into flash and start it. Filenames may have to be tweaked. Memory stick could
                                be in write-protect mode for security.

                                Another method (possibly more complicated, remember doing this is firmware/BIOS/POST) would be to
                                have the device get its address via DHCP. (put it's MAC address on a label/sticker) so a DHCP server
                                could be programmed to issue a specific address.

                                -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
                                Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
                                http://n1jmm.no-ip.org

                                On 5/13/13 5:54 PM, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
                                > Hi,
                                >
                                >
                                > I am now working on the "build your own echolink node with a raspberry
                                > pi" project.
                                > The final goal would be to come to a system that is as easy as possible
                                > to use. Something as simple as "insert a SD card in the Raspberry pi,
                                > connect the cables, boot and go".
                                >


                              • Kristoff Bonne
                                Jim, I know this is a question of taste, but I personally prefer using off-the-shelf components. They are not perfect but they have 4 big advantages: - they
                                Message 15 of 17 , May 14, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Jim,


                                  I know this is a question of taste, but I personally prefer using off-the-shelf components.

                                  They are not perfect but they have 4 big advantages:
                                  - they are easy to find (no "single source" issue as we have had on a number of other ham projects)
                                  - they are cheap
                                  - there is a lot of support for them
                                  - they are reusable. If you bought a Pi for a ham project and you are not interested anymore; you can still reuse it as a XBMC mediaplayer (or whatever).


                                  Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the Pi is perfect. It's not.
                                  And I do not have anything against designing home-build systems.


                                  But, ... they are there and they get the job done.



                                  BTW. Concerning your remark on the VFAT partition. I wasn't aware of that.
                                  Thanks.

                                  But you are also correct there is more then sufficient place on the boot partition (i.e. the first partition of the SDcard): 38 Mbyte That should be enough to store a couple of config-files.
                                  I did like your idea to put the configuration on a USB flashdrive. This would also provide sufficient space for the application to dump its logfiles.




                                  73
                                  Kristoff - ON1ARF


                                  On 14-05-13 07:33, Jim Thisdale wrote:
                                   

                                  Note, dos/windows (older versions at least) generally don't mount partitions after any partition it
                                  can't read... 1st is fat 16, 2nd is linux ext4 which windows won't mount, 3rd or more won't be
                                  mounted, so creating a 3rd partition for config files is probably not going to work for most windows
                                  users. However, there is no reason a small configuration file couldn't be added to the first (FAT16)
                                  partition.

                                  Ideas for framework of small computer board:

                                  Eliminate the SDcard completely and have on board flash memory, lets go for a gigabyte....

                                  connections for programmer?

                                  open source firmware/OS if possible

                                  include a basic http interface, much like a consumer wifi router has... with backup/load capability.

                                  do all configuration/loading over Ethernet.

                                  hit the reset button and be up and running....

                                  should have a few usb host slots... (sound fobs, memory stick)

                                  would be good to have it powered by 12-15vdc like our radios, makes for easy reliable power source.

                                  expansion connector for modem board(s)

                                  some basic led indicators. (ability to disable lights to conserve power use)

                                  some basic I/O would be handy:
                                  - few channels of A/D input say 0 - 5vdc range
                                  - maybe a few channels of D/A output, 0 - 5vdc?
                                  - microphone input
                                  - speaker output
                                  - digital inputs, +5 vdc with optional internal pull-ups to make for easy switch hookup.
                                  - digital outputs, +5 vdc, with optional internal pull-ups, probably open collector to ground
                                  suitable for radio ptt or relay sinking.
                                  - ???

                                  Any other suggestions ?

                                  -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
                                  Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
                                  http://n1jmm.no-ip.org

                                  On 5/13/13 5:54 PM, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
                                  > Hi,
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I am now working on the "build your own echolink node with a raspberry
                                  > pi" project.
                                  > The final goal would be to come to a system that is as easy as possible
                                  > to use. Something as simple as "insert a SD card in the Raspberry pi,
                                  > connect the cables, boot and go".
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > But, I guess this would not only be usefull for my project. In fact,
                                  > this probably applies to all "headless" applications (i.e. applications
                                  > that do not need user input/output via keyboard or screen) and quite a
                                  > number of the ham-projects are like that: D-STAR repeaters/hotspots,
                                  > APRS nodes, WSPR listeners, repeater controllers, APRS weather stations,
                                  > c2gmsk modem, etc.
                                  > In all these cases, we just need a radio, some butons, (in some cases)
                                  > an IP connection (read: ethernet) and ... a configuration file for the
                                  > application; but no screen or keyboard.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > So, would it not be usefull to create a generic framework for this, or
                                  > an overall document that describes how to build such a setup? This could
                                  > be usefull for a lot of different projects.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > My idea would be this:
                                  > - a SD card with three partitions: the two normal partitions (boot +
                                  > system) and an additional FAT partition.
                                  > - the addition partition would contain the configuration files for the
                                  > application involved and (perhaps) some system configurations.
                                  > - The diskimage can be directly copied to a SD card (as you would do to
                                  > install raspbian).
                                  > - The user would then just need to modify the files on the extra
                                  > partition. As it FAT formatted, it can be read on any computer that has
                                  > a SD card reader (even windows. :-) )
                                  > - Then, insert the SDcard in the pi and boot it. A startup application
                                  > will read and/or copy the configuration files from the FAT partition to
                                  > the system disk, do some preconfiguration work and then the pi can start
                                  > doing its thing.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I guess this would be a setup that is pretty generic for a lot of
                                  > different applications.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Concerning the preconfiguration scripts, most of them would be pretty
                                  > specific for the application, but there are some that might be generic
                                  > and reusable. (I'm thinking of scripts to configure a fixed ip-address
                                  > on a pi; which is pretty important if you have an application that
                                  > depends on portforwarding on the router).
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Any ideas of comments? Is there who already has experience with this?
                                  > Any pointers to existing documentation on how to do this?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > 73
                                  > kristoff - ON1ARF


                                • Jim Thisdale
                                  Nothing wrong with using off the shelf and piecing things together, especially for experimenting.... When I read your 1st posting I thought you were looking
                                  Message 16 of 17 , May 14, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Nothing wrong with using off the shelf and piecing things together, especially for experimenting....

                                    When I read your 1st posting I thought you were looking for ideas for an IDEAL system platform.

                                    Windows/DOS has some difficulties when it comes to unsupported partitions. It might work on newer
                                    versions like 7.

                                    Note also that the Raspbian & Fedora Remix 18 images once written to the sdcard fail gparted disk
                                    check on the 1st partition (FAT16), and I haven't found a way to fix it either and still have it
                                    boot & mount the partitions.

                                    -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
                                    Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
                                    http://n1jmm.no-ip.org

                                    On 5/14/13 5:35 PM, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Jim,
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I know this is a question of taste, but I personally prefer using off-the-shelf components.
                                    >
                                    > They are not perfect but they have 4 big advantages:
                                    > - they are easy to find (no "single source" issue as we have had on a number of other ham projects)
                                    > - they are cheap
                                    > - there is a lot of support for them
                                    > - they are reusable. If you bought a Pi for a ham project and you are not interested anymore; you
                                    > can still reuse it as a XBMC mediaplayer (or whatever).
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the Pi is perfect. It's not.
                                    > And I do not have anything against designing home-build systems.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > But, ... they are there and they get the job done.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > BTW. Concerning your remark on the VFAT partition. I wasn't aware of that.
                                    > Thanks.
                                    >
                                    > But you are also correct there is more then sufficient place on the boot partition (i.e. the first
                                    > partition of the SDcard): 38 Mbyte That should be enough to store a couple of config-files.
                                    > I did like your idea to put the configuration on a USB flashdrive. This would also provide
                                    > sufficient space for the application to dump its logfiles.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > 73
                                    > Kristoff - ON1ARF
                                  • Kerry McKenzie
                                    Kristoff and Jim please accept my apologizes for not replying to your post sooner i have it all carefully printed out here and am working through it. I will
                                    Message 17 of 17 , May 17, 2013
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                                      Kristoff and Jim
                                      please accept my apologizes for not replying to your post sooner i have
                                      it all carefully printed out here and am working through it.
                                      I will reply properly very shortly (very time poor these last couple of
                                      weeks)
                                      However i would like to acknowledge that i have received you information
                                      and advice and for that i am very grateful for you to take the time out
                                      and help me out with the pi.
                                      The positive help i have recieved from the list and a very patient
                                      friend in Canada has been nothing short of amazing and my downstairs
                                      radio shack
                                      has now become a PI emporium!

                                      Your help is very much appreciated...Kerry


                                      Kristoff Bonne wrote:
                                      > Kerry,
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On 14-05-13 20:03, Kerry McKenzie wrote:
                                      >
                                      >> Hi Jim
                                      >> yes I'm an expert with setups ;-)) and have re burned so many images
                                      >> from scratch, and have five 8gig cards and five raspberry pies for the
                                      >> purpose.
                                      >> I can even compare files between one pi and the next and have 2 monitors
                                      >> and keyboards etc setup opposite one another so I can compare screens.
                                      >> So i can get a Pi going no problem there,.. and can ssh or xrdp into it
                                      >> from all my windoze boxes without a problem. I just cannot use the
                                      >> bloody things for what i want ie ham radio stuff.
                                      >>
                                      >> My web server is current appache and is running in an xp enviroment and
                                      >> shares the windows fbb bbs.
                                      >>
                                      >> I have setup an owncloud headless PI as it was the only prepared image
                                      >> that i could find on the web,... but cannot see it from the outside
                                      >> although i have made the ports accessible via my router however i can
                                      >> http into it from within my network and upload file and create folders
                                      >> etc, and even setup users.
                                      >> But it does not exist where i need it on the outside, and because linux
                                      >> scatters files all over the place makes it very difficult once again to
                                      >> fault find.
                                      >>
                                      > Troubleshooting this kind of issues is pretty easy on linux.
                                      >
                                      > Like with any network issue, start with the lowest OSI layers. In this
                                      > case, layer 3, does the packets arrive on your server.
                                      >
                                      > On linux, there is a tool called "tcpdump", which allows you to sniff
                                      > all the traffic on your network.
                                      >
                                      > In this case, do "sudo tcpdump -n -i eth0 port 80"
                                      > ("-n" means no DNS resolving of names, "-i eth0" is the interface on
                                      > which you want to sniff", "port 80" is a filter, which means all traffic
                                      > from/to TCP or UDP port 80).
                                      >
                                      > Make a connection from inside your network and you should see the http
                                      > session.
                                      > If you try to connect from the outside world and you do not see an
                                      > incoming tcp session, you know that the traffic probably does not enter
                                      > your network and you have to look at your router. (if it is a
                                      > linux-based router -like openwrt of ddwrt- you can also do "tcpdump" on
                                      > that box, on both interfaces).
                                      >
                                      > If the traffic does not come in, you need to look at your pi.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >> Dont know if you know owncloud at all but it runs the free sql edition
                                      >> and apache and it is I would imagine just a matter of finding appache
                                      >> and configuring it to see the outside via my vk4tub.no-ip.org account.
                                      >> I have a friend in Canada who is also helping with a version of fbb that
                                      >> he setup for me and I am trying to find my way around that right now as
                                      >> i have some forwarding issues with it.
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >> I am having difficulies with the fact that linux scatters files
                                      >> everywhere and you have to know the paths and where things are kept in
                                      >> order to fault find problems.
                                      >>
                                      > It depends on where the application descides to look for files.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Either look at the startup scripts (/etc/init.d/... and
                                      > /etc/default/...). Sometimes the configuration-files are passed to the
                                      > application when starting, via a cli. Do "ps auxw | grep
                                      > name-of-application" if there are no CLI parameters there.
                                      >
                                      > There are still other options, like "lsof" ("list of open files") which
                                      > is a system utility that gives a list of all files that are open by all
                                      > application.
                                      >
                                      > Even more further down is starting the application with "strace" which
                                      > will start an application but -at the same time- provide a dump of all
                                      > system calls issues by the application. As a "open file" is a
                                      > systemcall, you will see see it pop up somewhere (but you need to some
                                      > tricks to grab the output of strace and be able to search in it).
                                      > Another trick is using the "proc filesystem", which means that if you go
                                      > to "/proc/processnumber/ ..." there is a lot of information there like
                                      > system-parameters, dumps of memory, pointers to all open files, etc.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Once you get to know linux; there are really some very powerfull tools
                                      > which really allow you to look inside application. :-)
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >> None of my books cover this and hence many of my problems stem from the
                                      >> fact that i want to run radio projects and not games or programming as
                                      >> this is well covered in all the pie books I have.
                                      >> I am very disappointed with the fact that these are advertised as
                                      >> learning tools for school children and one automatically assumes that
                                      >> they will be a simple thing to use.
                                      >>
                                      > As there are some unix application that can have more then 20 years of
                                      > history, they all have their own way of doing things. :-)
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Unix has more then 40 years of history and linux is a merge of two
                                      > different families of unix each with their own history. Plus that unix
                                      > has a saying "there are usually 10 ways to do something". E.g. linux has
                                      > at least 4 different audio-systems (which means that every one has its
                                      > own API), I don't know how much different filesystems; applications can
                                      > log events via their own system or use the "syslog" deamon process for
                                      > that, etc.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > My first experience with this kind of computing was when we ran
                                      > something called "OS9" on a tandy color computer (not macOS9, but OS9
                                      > based on the 6809 CPU). There was a book that came with it that really
                                      > explained how the guys wrote their OS. (I came across that book about a
                                      > year ago, looking at it now, you could really see that the book was
                                      > written by the same guys who actually made OS9 themselfs and you could
                                      > really see the feeling of "pride" when reading it).
                                      > Anycase, it was a very interesting book because it really explained a
                                      > lot about what an OS is and what it does: resource management, memory
                                      > management, CPU management, task management, I/O operations,
                                      > compilers/linkers/assemblers/debuggers/..., or something like "what does
                                      > a computer do what it is booted", ...) Later I had unix at school where
                                      > we learned things like inter-process communication, networking,
                                      > programming APIs and what have you.
                                      >
                                      > You might not strickly need it to run a system, but it does give you a
                                      > background to know what your computer is doing and why. And it helps you
                                      > understand that -yes- there are usually 10 ways to get things done. So,
                                      > if you work on a system with decades of history and applications that
                                      > even date back to the beginning of the internet; you do expect them all
                                      > to have their own history and there own way of doing things. :-)
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 73
                                      > Kristoff - ON1ARF
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
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                                      >
                                      >
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                                      --
                                      Kind Regards
                                      Kerry McKenzie

                                      PO Box 4492
                                      Kirwan QLD 4817
                                      Australia
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