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Linux is not Windows

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  • pmooney22
    This has been around fro a few years now, but still holds a fair bit of water (IMHO). http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm Regarding the Kia/Lincoln
    Message 1 of 24 , Apr 19, 2013
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      This has been around fro a few years now, but still holds a fair bit of water (IMHO).

      http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

      Regarding the Kia/Lincoln comparison, I'd make it a chauffeur-driven Kia vs a Lincoln.  :)
    • Charles Gallo
      Actually I d call Linux more like a Ferrari. No radio, extra thin glass, no AC, etc, all for the sake of making the car lighter and higher performance. The Pi
      Message 2 of 24 , Apr 19, 2013
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        Actually I'd call Linux more like a Ferrari. No radio, extra thin glass, no AC, etc, all for the sake of making the car lighter and higher performance. The Pi is more like a Subaru WRX, which did some of the same things, thinner glass, aluminum jack vs steel, no radio, no soundproofing under the carpet etc, all to make it lighter, but at a lower price and performance point. Want extras? You have to install them yourself, or live without

        Btw, one thing a LOT of folks with only DOS/Windows experience forget or don't know, Linux and Unix are case sensitive

        On Apr 19, 2013, at 7:27 AM, "pmooney22" <pmooney22@...> wrote:

        This has been around fro a few years now, but still holds a fair bit of water (IMHO).

        http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

        Regarding the Kia/Lincoln comparison, I'd make it a chauffeur-driven Kia vs a Lincoln.  :)
      • John Ferrell
        From my perspective Linux is not limited. One can craft it to fit their needs & wants. Windows is a set of conditions which manages resources to provide a more
        Message 3 of 24 , Apr 19, 2013
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          From my perspective Linux is not limited. One can craft it to fit their needs & wants. Windows is a set of conditions which manages resources to provide a more or less standard behavior. The decisions of what the users get are not made by the users. If the user stays in the middle of the road there is a relatively small set of knowledge required for a successful outcome. Linux behavior is limited by the physics and  intellectual constraints of the moment. Windows has built in management of the user. Linux allows the user freedom but the individual application has the option of providing tighter management of the user. 
          Windows offers a broad set of canned products that usually work well. Linux has the option of looking like windows but the nerd/egghead/techie has the option of working right down to the bare metal if they care to.

          I view Apple's position in the business as a limited performance hardware with a mostly complete set of well tested application software. They appear to minimize user problems at a premium price. Although their market share is small, they have very high profit margins! The windows industry is loose enough that there exists a secondary industry just to keep things running at a usable pace. Since the bulk of the public is bound by the Windows standards it seems that the Linux world needs a separate windows machine/application to interface with them.

          For me, Linux is my new found recreation area...
            To each his own!

          On 4/19/2013 8:14 AM, Charles Gallo wrote:
           
          Actually I'd call Linux more like a Ferrari. No radio, extra thin glass, no AC, etc, all for the sake of making the car lighter and higher performance. The Pi is more like a Subaru WRX, which did some of the same things, thinner glass, aluminum jack vs steel, no radio, no soundproofing under the carpet etc, all to make it lighter, but at a lower price and performance point. Want extras? You have to install them yourself, or live without

          Btw, one thing a LOT of folks with only DOS/Windows experience forget or don't know, Linux and Unix are case sensitive

          On Apr 19, 2013, at 7:27 AM, "pmooney22" <pmooney22@...> wrote:

          This has been around fro a few years now, but still holds a fair bit of water (IMHO).

          http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

          Regarding the Kia/Lincoln comparison, I'd make it a chauffeur-driven Kia vs a Lincoln. 

          -- 
          John Ferrell W8CCW
          That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
          P.C. HODGELL
            
        • Jim Thisdale
          I meant the car brands strictly as a Lincoln fan buying a kia but expecting a lincoln experience, not that one was any better then the other. In other words if
          Message 4 of 24 , Apr 19, 2013
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            I meant the car brands strictly as a Lincoln fan buying a kia but expecting a lincoln experience,
            not that one was any better then the other.
            In other words if you want a windows environment buy a computer that will run windows. AFAIK the Pi
            won't directly run windows, it might run it extremely slowly in a vm under linux.

            -Jim- N1JMM, KB1YPL_B
            Visit my Pi running ircddb, dvrptr, Apache & many other things:
            http://n1jmm.no-ip.org

            On 4/19/13 8:14 AM, Charles Gallo wrote:
            >
            >
            > Actually I'd call Linux more like a Ferrari. No radio, extra thin glass, no AC, etc, all for the
            > sake of making the car lighter and higher performance. The Pi is more like a Subaru WRX, which did
            > some of the same things, thinner glass, aluminum jack vs steel, no radio, no soundproofing under the
            > carpet etc, all to make it lighter, but at a lower price and performance point. Want extras? You
            > have to install them yourself, or live without
            >
            > Btw, one thing a LOT of folks with only DOS/Windows experience forget or don't know, Linux and Unix
            > are case sensitive
            >
            > On Apr 19, 2013, at 7:27 AM, "pmooney22" <pmooney22@... <mailto:pmooney22@...>> wrote:
            >
            >> This has been around fro a few years now, but still holds a fair bit of water (IMHO).
            >>
            >> http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
            >>
            >> Regarding the Kia/Lincoln comparison, I'd make it a chauffeur-driven Kia vs a Lincoln. :)
            >
          • gd6icr
            Ouch Please Gentlemen this discussion can be met at another website - lets just keep this for RPi and Amateur radio. Mike GD6ICR
            Message 5 of 24 , Apr 20, 2013
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              Ouch Please Gentlemen this discussion can be met at another website - lets just keep this for RPi and Amateur radio.

              Mike
              GD6ICR
            • John D. Hays
              Come on guys -- this hasn t turned into a Linux vs Windows war. The Pi runs Linux, you can t talk about applications on the Pi without talking about Linux.
              Message 6 of 24 , Apr 20, 2013
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                Come on guys -- this hasn't turned into a Linux vs Windows war.   

                The Pi runs Linux, you can't talk about applications on the Pi without talking about Linux.  Any discussion about OS, should focus on the OS that the Pi runs, not any other Operating System. If a particular application runs on one version of Linux better than another, that's information people might need. (You will find a couple of different Linux camps as well and we don't need those wars either.)

                We've heard enough of the "don't make this Linux vs. Windows" meme -- when that hasn't been the case in the first place.  However, sometimes you have to refer to how you do things in one OS to show its equivalent in the other. 

                If that's more than one can handle, then its probably best to stay off the Internet.

                Good moderation by the list owner should take care of any extremes.  The key is moderation.


                John D. Hays
                K7VE
                PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
                  





                On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 11:50 AM, gd6icr <gd6icr@...> wrote:
                 

                Ouch Please Gentlemen this discussion can be met at another website - lets just keep this for RPi and Amateur radio.

                Mike
                GD6ICR

              • Kristoff Bonne
                Hi, ... (...) Well, I see the pi as a combination of a linux device and a embedded controller; which are two fields of computing where people who have only
                Message 7 of 24 , Apr 21, 2013
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                  Hi,


                  On 20-04-13 21:52, John D. Hays wrote:
                   
                  Come on guys -- this hasn't turned into a Linux vs Windows war.   

                  The Pi runs Linux, you can't talk about applications on the Pi without talking about Linux.  Any discussion about OS, should focus on the OS that the Pi runs, not any other Operating System. If a particular application runs on one version of Linux better than another, that's information people might need. (You will find a couple of different Linux camps as well and we don't need those wars either.)
                  (...)

                  Well, I see the pi as a combination of a linux device and a embedded controller; which are two fields of computing where people who have only worked with PC or Mac are not familiar with.

                  Now, my impression with the ham community (at least here) is that most hams would be in that situation.

                  But, just to know if this "conventional wisdom" is correct or not, I started a small poll:
                  "what is your IT backgroup you have / had before you started working with the Pi".

                  The goal is to have an idea if the majority of the people here have already worked with linux / unix, with embedded devices, etc. before; if this is a group or all linux geeks, or if the majority come from a PC / user background.

                  Perhaps, if the results would show the latter, we could perhaps do an extra effort (e.g. create of a list of resources that can help new PI-users; if possible more or less oriented towards the ham community and ham applications on the pi).


                  73
                  Kristoff - ON1ARF

                • Kristoff Bonne
                  Hi, ... BTW. The poll can be found here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO/surveys?id=3139788 73 kristoff - ON1ARF
                  Message 8 of 24 , Apr 21, 2013
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                    Hi,



                    On 21-04-13 18:43, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
                     

                    ..., I started a small poll:

                    "what is your IT backgroup you have / had before you started working with the Pi".

                    The goal is to have an idea if the majority of the people here have already worked with linux / unix, with embedded devices, etc. before; if this is a group or all linux geeks, or if the majority come from a PC / user background.

                    BTW.
                    The poll can be found here:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO/surveys?id=3139788


                    73
                    kristoff - ON1ARF

                  • Ron Wright
                    IT is a low level of programming and many professional magazines and other organizations do not see IT as much more than someone working with an existing
                    Message 9 of 24 , Apr 21, 2013
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                      IT is a low level of programming and many professional magazines and other organizations do not see IT as much more than someone working with an existing programming which is basically what it is.

                      If one wants to know about programming ask who is a computer or software engineering or the like.  In my 30 years as a developer of computer hardware and software I cannot think at any time was an IT person involved or employed in the same efforts.

                      IT has it place, but one will find much more exciting and challenging efforts at other levels.  I am sure IT people could learn to work with the Pi, but then again there are 15 year olds doing it, hi.

                      73, ron, n9ee/r

                      Ron Wright, N9EE/R
                      BSEE
                      Micro Computer Concepts
                      352-683-4476
                      mccrpt@...



                      To: Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO@yahoogroups.com
                      From: kristoff@...
                      Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 20:46:44 +0200
                      Subject: Re: [Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO] Re: Linux is not Windows

                       

                      Hi,



                      On 21-04-13 18:43, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
                       
                      ..., I started a small poll:

                      "what is your IT backgroup you have / had before you started working with the Pi".

                      The goal is to have an idea if the majority of the people here have already worked with linux / unix, with embedded devices, etc. before; if this is a group or all linux geeks, or if the majority come from a PC / user background.

                      BTW.
                      The poll can be found here:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO/surveys?id=3139788


                      73
                      kristoff - ON1ARF


                    • Kristoff Bonne
                      Hi Ron, OK. My appologies. I guess the use of the term IT may differ from place to place. Overhere, it would simply be equivalent to what is your computer
                      Message 10 of 24 , Apr 21, 2013
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                        Hi Ron,


                        OK. My appologies.
                        I guess the use of the term "IT" may differ from place to place. Overhere, it would simply be equivalent to "what is your computer background".



                        Anycase, the poll seams to have been quit a success. (more then what I expected, thanks to all that filled in the poll!!! :-) ).


                        Based on the current results (44 votes), my very rough (and unscientific) first analysis is this:
                        - roughtly one of five of the people who voted have used linux before. A minority of them have also already used embedded linux.
                        - roughtly one of of 10 have experience with other embedded systems.


                        So, for me, this would leave me to conclude that the majority of the people in the group are actually making their first steps in the world on linux via the Raspberry pi. (concidering this group is aimed at ham-applications, this is -I think- not such a big surprise).


                        So, first of all, .... "welcome to the wonderfull world of linux!!!".
                        :-)


                        However, I guess, for the 20 to 25 % of the people who do have unix / linux background, this will mean that we will have to keep this in mind.

                        Now, I agree with John. This is -in the first place- a group about using the Raspi for ham-applications and there are other list specifically aimed at "the raspberry pi for newbies".
                        However, on the other hand, it would probably not be a bad idea  to spend just a little more time on explaining things then what we are used to do.


                        As a practicle example.
                        There is quite a lot of information on the web for new raspi and linux users on the net.
                        Also, the yahoo-groups has a "links" section, which is already already nicely used by some people.

                        I just created a folder "raspi and linux for newbies".
                        Perhaps that can be usefull to use that as a "starting place" for hams who are new to the pi, to linux/unix, to embedded systems and to open source; so they can start exploring.
                        After all, the reason the pi was created is to allow people to learn about computers, and bring back the "fun" in computing; just like 20 to 30 years ago!

                        And I think that, as more and more aspect of the radio-amateur hobby involve computers, the combination of raspi + ham-radio should be double fun!


                        73
                        Kristoff - ON1ARF


                        On 21-04-13 21:40, Ron Wright wrote:
                         

                        IT is a low level of programming and many professional magazines and other organizations do not see IT as much more than someone working with an existing programming which is basically what it is.

                        If one wants to know about programming ask who is a computer or software engineering or the like.  In my 30 years as a developer of computer hardware and software I cannot think at any time was an IT person involved or employed in the same efforts.

                        IT has it place, but one will find much more exciting and challenging efforts at other levels.  I am sure IT people could learn to work with the Pi, but then again there are 15 year olds doing it, hi.

                        73, ron, n9ee/r

                        Ron Wright, N9EE/R
                        BSEE
                        Micro Computer Concepts
                        352-683-4476



                        To: Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO@yahoogroups.com
                        From: kristoff @...
                        Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 20:46:44 +0200
                        Subject: Re: [Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO] Re: Linux is not Windows

                         

                        Hi,



                        On 21-04-13 18:43, Kristoff Bonne wrote:
                         
                        ..., I started a small poll:

                        "what is your IT backgroup you have / had before you started working with the Pi".

                        The goal is to have an idea if the majority of the people here have already worked with linux / unix, with embedded devices, etc. before; if this is a group or all linux geeks, or if the majority come from a PC / user background.

                        BTW.
                        The poll can be found here:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO/surveys?id=3139788


                        73
                        kristoff - ON1ARF



                      • Stephen
                        Hi Kristoff, Thanks very much for organizing the poll. I ll write my replies with the results in mind in the future. FWIW over here in Europe IT covers a whole
                        Message 11 of 24 , Apr 22, 2013
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                          Hi Kristoff,

                          Thanks very much for organizing the poll. I'll write my replies with the results in mind in the future.

                          FWIW over here in Europe IT covers a whole load of things that are computer related. I was the Head of IT for a big corporate. This covered every aspect of computing and telecoms for the organisation. All the programmers, the infrastructure guys, the radio techs worked for my part of the enterprise. However to some people IT means the ability to use Microsoft Office. So the term really doesn't mean that much.

                          73s Steve
                        • Stephen
                          Hi Kristoff, Thanks very much for organizing the poll. I ll write my replies with the results in mind in the future. FWIW over here in Europe IT covers a whole
                          Message 12 of 24 , Apr 22, 2013
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                            Hi Kristoff,

                            Thanks very much for organizing the poll. I'll write my replies with the results in mind in the future.

                            FWIW over here in Europe IT covers a whole load of things that are computer related. I was the Head of IT for a big corporate. This covered every aspect of computing and telecoms for the organisation. All the programmers, the infrastructure guys, the radio techs worked for my part of the enterprise. However to some people IT means the ability to use Microsoft Office. So the term really doesn't mean that much.

                            73s Steve
                          • Stephen
                            Hi Kristoff, Thanks very much for organizing the poll. I ll write my replies with the results in mind in the future. FWIW over here in Europe IT covers a whole
                            Message 13 of 24 , Apr 22, 2013
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                              Hi Kristoff,

                              Thanks very much for organizing the poll. I'll write my replies with the results in mind in the future.

                              FWIW over here in Europe IT covers a whole load of things that are computer related. I was the Head of IT for a big corporate. This covered every aspect of computing and telecoms for the organisation. All the programmers, the infrastructure guys, the radio techs worked for my part of the enterprise. However to some people IT means the ability to use Microsoft Office. So the term really doesn't mean that much.

                              73s Steve
                            • John D. Hays
                              Similar story here -- I am the VP of IT at my day job. I manage IT operations, Software/Web Development, User Experience Design, IT Project Management,
                              Message 14 of 24 , Apr 22, 2013
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                                Similar story here -- I am the VP of IT at my day job.  I manage IT operations, Software/Web Development, User Experience Design, IT Project Management, Telecom (VOIP), Network Engineering, and what ever else comes my way.  

                                I still do hands on stuff, with 30+ years of Unix/Linux development and administration.  I also can drive Windows, IOS, Android, Mac OS, and assorted Linux systems and applications.  Lately, I've been doing a lot of software "porting" to ARM.

                                IT can mean a lot of different things depending on company culture.

                                My "night" job is product development for the UDR56K at http://www.nwdigitalradio.com



                                John D. Hays
                                K7VE
                                PO Box 1223, Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 
                                  




                                On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 1:02 AM, Stephen <squirrox@...> wrote:
                                 



                                Hi Kristoff,

                                Thanks very much for organizing the poll. I'll write my replies with the results in mind in the future.

                                FWIW over here in Europe IT covers a whole load of things that are computer related. I was the Head of IT for a big corporate. This covered every aspect of computing and telecoms for the organisation. All the programmers, the infrastructure guys, the radio techs worked for my part of the enterprise. However to some people IT means the ability to use Microsoft Office. So the term really doesn't mean that much.

                                73s Steve

                              • Fran Miele
                                Well lets see, where to begin! I am a retired IT middle management person of over 40 years I worked for several major insurance companies in Hartford
                                Message 15 of 24 , Apr 22, 2013
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                                  Well lets see, where to begin!  I am a retired IT middle management person of over 40 years  I worked for several major insurance companies in Hartford Connecticut. I started as an IBM 1401 programmer and made my way up to the Director of  Intel infrastructure Department which procured, deployed and managed all the companies INTEL based servers. After 37 years I was laid off and ended up working for a small Manufacturing shop at the hands-on IT manager. That is where I concluded my career.

                                  I have been a HAM since 1988.

                                  --Fran, W1FJM

                                   



                                • John Ferrell
                                  I bet you know about wordmarks & tapemarks! ... -- John Ferrell W8CCW That which can be destroyed by the truth should be. P.C. HODGELL
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Apr 22, 2013
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                                    I bet you know about wordmarks & tapemarks!

                                    On 4/22/2013 6:43 PM, Fran Miele wrote:

                                    Well lets see, where to begin!  I am a retired IT middle management person of over 40 years  I worked for several major insurance companies in Hartford Connecticut. I started as an IBM 1401 programmer and made my way up to the Director of  Intel infrastructure Department which procured, deployed and managed all the companies INTEL based servers. After 37 years I was laid off and ended up working for a small Manufacturing shop at the hands-on IT manager. That is where I concluded my career.

                                    I have been a HAM since 1988.


                                    -- 
                                    John Ferrell W8CCW
                                    That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
                                    P.C. HODGELL
                                      
                                  • John Hays
                                    I remember the 1401.  My first was the 1160. Abt 1971 1st licensed in 1973 Sent from Samsung tabletFran Miele wrote:Well lets see,
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Apr 22, 2013
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                                      I remember the 1401.  My first was the 1160. Abt 1971

                                      1st licensed in 1973




                                      Sent from Samsung tablet

                                      Fran Miele <fran@...> wrote:
                                       

                                      Well lets see, where to begin!  I am a retired IT middle management person of over 40 years  I worked for several major insurance companies in Hartford Connecticut. I started as an IBM 1401 programmer and made my way up to the Director of  Intel infrastructure Department which procured, deployed and managed all the companies INTEL based servers. After 37 years I was laid off and ended up working for a small Manufacturing shop at the hands-on IT manager. That is where I concluded my career.

                                      I have been a HAM since 1988.

                                      --Fran, W1FJM

                                       



                                    • David Rowell
                                      Just missed the IBM 650(?) drum memory machine at Syracuse! Learned FORTRAN and card punching on IBM 7074(?) in 65. Programmed a Systron Donner(?) analog
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Apr 23, 2013
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                                        Just missed the IBM 650(?) drum memory machine at Syracuse! Learned
                                        FORTRAN and card punching on IBM 7074(?) in '65. Programmed a Systron
                                        Donner(?) analog computer to solve some drive train dynamics issues.
                                        Then GE timesharing and a bunch of seminars. Programmed system software
                                        and Algor drivers for HP 2100. First - of many - home computer was
                                        Commodore VIC-20 and it went downhill from there! Currently using a
                                        little quad core Gateway mini-desktop with 4 GB RAM and 640GB drive -
                                        obsolete probably but I'm really tickled with it!

                                        Started using various linux distro's in the late '90's settling on
                                        Ubuntu around '05. Since Unity I've been a happy Linux Mint Cinnamon
                                        user. I've done a lot of MS Professional Basic and a little C and
                                        Fortran programming at work on Windows and at home on Linux.

                                        Been a HAM for a few years and Extra since 2010. Living in a CC&R
                                        situation kinda restricts my activity tho. Dad was a HAM from the spark
                                        gap days.

                                        --
                                        Congres' motto - "Never put off today what you can put off tomorrow"
                                      • Fran Miele
                                        How about paper tape and punch cards! LOL --Fran
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Apr 23, 2013
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                                          How about paper tape and punch cards! LOL

                                          --Fran

                                           


                                           

                                          I bet you know about wordmarks & tapemarks!

                                          On 4/22/2013 6:43 PM, Fran Miele wrote:

                                          Well lets see, where to begin!  I am a retired IT middle management person of over 40 years  I worked for several major insurance companies in Hartford Connecticut. I started as an IBM 1401 programmer and made my way up to the Director of  Intel infrastructure Department which procured, deployed and managed all the companies INTEL based servers. After 37 years I was laid off and ended up working for a small Manufacturing shop at the hands-on IT manager. That is where I concluded my career.

                                          I have been a HAM since 1988.


                                          -- 
                                          John Ferrell W8CCW
                                          That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
                                          P.C. HODGELL
                                            


                                        • Dave Cochran
                                          What was wrong with the paper tapes? Lol An embroidery shop that I did IT work for still used them back in the early eighties. It was not too long ago I
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Apr 23, 2013
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                                            What was wrong with the paper tapes?  Lol

                                            An embroidery shop that I did IT work for still used them back in the early eighties.   It was not too long ago I finally tossed my very first program i wrote (late 70s) in the burn barrel...it was on punch cards.   I even gave them the infamous "punch card shuffle" before tossing them in.

                                            Dave - NOTRQ

                                            On Apr 23, 2013 8:22 AM, "Fran Miele" <fran@...> wrote:
                                             

                                            How about paper tape and punch cards! LOL

                                            --Fran

                                             


                                             

                                            I bet you know about wordmarks & tapemarks!

                                            On 4/22/2013 6:43 PM, Fran Miele wrote:

                                            Well lets see, where to begin!  I am a retired IT middle management person of over 40 years  I worked for several major insurance companies in Hartford Connecticut. I started as an IBM 1401 programmer and made my way up to the Director of  Intel infrastructure Department which procured, deployed and managed all the companies INTEL based servers. After 37 years I was laid off and ended up working for a small Manufacturing shop at the hands-on IT manager. That is where I concluded my career.

                                            I have been a HAM since 1988.


                                            -- 
                                            John Ferrell W8CCW
                                            That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
                                            P.C. HODGELL
                                              


                                          • David Rowell
                                            Tape!!?? The HP 2100 8k machine had a super duper 300 c/s tape reader (tape would spit a good 2ft when it got going) and a high speed punch that would punch
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Apr 23, 2013
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                                              Tape!!?? The HP 2100 8k machine had a super duper 300 c/s tape reader
                                              (tape would spit a good 2ft when it got going) and a "high speed" punch
                                              that would punch tape at the amazing rate of 75 c/s ;-)

                                              Tape had one BIG advantage over cards - the deck wouldn't shuffle!

                                              --
                                              Congres' motto - "Never put off today what you can put off tomorrow"
                                            • Brian
                                              ... Nothing. The first computer I programmed used paper tape. It also used valves (tubes). It was 1968 or so, when I was in my early years at Grammar school.
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Apr 24, 2013
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                                                --- In Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Cochran <dave@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > What was wrong with the paper tapes? Lol


                                                Nothing.

                                                The first computer I programmed used paper tape. It also used valves (tubes). It was 1968 or so, when I was in my early years at Grammar school. Out school have been donated a Ferantti Pegasus computer, it filled a classroom. Even when I started University in 1976 (after a 'gap year' to earn some money), one of the machines we used there (a Data General Nova) used paper tape for some tasks. We also used 'punch cards' (with Fortran) when using the central University Computers. I think the first microprocessor development system I used (for the 6100, not a common beast it had the PDP instruction set) may have had a tape reader on it. That would have been Summer 1977, when I secured 'plum' vacation job saw me though both the 'long' vacs.


                                                When I started in industry (1979), paper tape was still in use on defence projects supporting older kit (although I wasn't working those myself) up until I left for change of direction in 2003 or so.

                                                Conversing, 8" disks came an went, as I recall a colleague observing when a youngster scoffed at paper tape. As did punch cards and various other drives, zip, 3", 5.25". You still see 3.5 drives.

                                                That has made me feel very old....

                                                73
                                                Brian
                                                G8OSN/W8OSN
                                                www.g8osn.net
                                              • Rick Simpson
                                                In 1963 the electrical engineering department at Lehigh University got its first computer -- a Singer-Freiden LGP-30 complete with 512 bytes of drum memory.
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Apr 24, 2013
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                                                  In 1963 the electrical engineering department at Lehigh University got its first computer -- a Singer-Freiden LGP-30 complete with 512 bytes of drum memory. Input was by punch cards giving the absolute address and hex code for each program step. Needless to say, programs were short and debugging was long and tedious (no assembler). Later I punched paper tape on a teletype model 33 and fed it to a PDP-8.
                                                   
                                                  Rick
                                                   
                                                   
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: Brian
                                                  Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 6:18 PM
                                                  Subject: [Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO] Re: Poll: computing background of people starting of with the RasPi

                                                   



                                                  --- In Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Cochran <dave@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > What was wrong with the paper tapes? Lol


                                                  Nothing.

                                                  The first computer I programmed used paper tape. It also used valves (tubes). It was 1968 or so, when I was in my early years at Grammar school. Out school have been donated a Ferantti Pegasus computer, it filled a classroom. Even when I started University in 1976 (after a 'gap year' to earn some money), one of the machines we used there (a Data General Nova) used paper tape for some tasks. We also used 'punch cards' (with Fortran) when using the central University Computers. I think the first microprocessor development system I used (for the 6100, not a common beast it had the PDP instruction set) may have had a tape reader on it. That would have been Summer 1977, when I secured 'plum' vacation job saw me though both the 'long' vacs.

                                                  When I started in industry (1979), paper tape was still in use on defence projects supporting older kit (although I wasn't working those myself) up until I left for change of direction in 2003 or so.

                                                  Conversing, 8" disks came an went, as I recall a colleague observing when a youngster scoffed at paper tape. As did punch cards and various other drives, zip, 3", 5.25". You still see 3.5 drives.

                                                  That has made me feel very old....

                                                  73
                                                  Brian
                                                  G8OSN/W8OSN
                                                  www.g8osn.net

                                                • John Ferrell
                                                  I suppose the IBM 402 was my first computer. It was definitely solid state weighing in at about 2600 pounds with the attached carriage. No vacuum tubes or
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Apr 27, 2013
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                                                    I suppose the IBM 402 was my first computer. It was definitely solid
                                                    state weighing in at about 2600 pounds with the attached carriage. No
                                                    vacuum tubes or transistors but lots of relays. It did have "one way
                                                    wires" that were essentially diodes (sometimes selenium rectifiers). It
                                                    worked in decimal with mechanical counters. It was the fore runner of
                                                    the COBOL programming language.
                                                    I was pleasantly surprised when Slashdot led me to this article earlier
                                                    this week:

                                                    http://www.pcworld.com/article/249951/if_it_aint_broke_dont_fix_it_ancient_computers_in_use_today.html

                                                    --
                                                    John Ferrell W8CCW
                                                    That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
                                                    P.C. HODGELL
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