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Re: CRV becoming a nonprofit corporation? Good idea?

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  • warren_d_smith31
    Godalmighty... reading tax regulations is hellish. Anyhow, I think I ve answered the main questions. CRV, if it wants to get any serious money from
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 2, 2006
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      Godalmighty... reading tax regulations is hellish.

      Anyhow, I think I've answered the main questions.

      CRV, if it wants to get any serious money from philanthropists,
      will need to get IRS tax-exempt nonprofit status.

      There are 2 kinds of status of interest to us:

      501(c)3 with the 501(h) modification:
      Exempt from income taxes.
      Donors can "deduct" contributions as "charitable" when filing their own taxes.
      Can use up to 20% of expenditures on "direct lobbying"
      where propaganda for initiatives & referenda counts as "direct",
      and where urging (directly or indirectly) party officials to change their internal party
      rules, does not count as "lobbying".
      Advertising to urge people to urge legislators to legislate, is "indirect"
      and each dollar of indirect counts the same as 4 dollars of direct as far as fitting
      under the 20% limit is concerned. You can exceed the 20% limit - going up to 30% -
      if pay a 25% tax on the excess money. Exceed by more and you lose 501(c)3 status.

      501(c)4:
      Exempt from income taxes.
      Donors, however, can NOT deduct contributions as "charitable" when filing
      their own taxes.
      Unlimited lobbying expenses are permitted - can be 100% and that is fine.

      A standard scam is to make two organizations, one being 501(c)3+501(h) and the other
      being 501(c)4, and the latter does most of the lobbying while the former
      tries to do as much as possible of everything else.
      This minimizes total taxes.

      To do all this numerous forms have to be filed with the IRS and in the selected US
      state, you have to get a "board" and "bylaws", and you have to have "board meetings"
      you have to have the right kind of missions, blah blah blah,
      I have about 5 dense pages of notes on all the requirements.

      wds
    • Jan Kok
      I really don t know if this this is a good idea or not. On the one hand, Warren has said that some politicians and organizations won t talk or listen to us
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 7, 2006
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        I really don't know if this this is a good idea or not.

        On the one hand, Warren has said that some politicians and
        organizations won't talk or listen to us unless we have about
        $1,000,000. And if we had money, we could hire ourselves and others as
        lobbyists, web lackeys, etc.

        On the other hand, I fear that money spells Trouble with a capital T.
        In particular, if CRV tries to grow by merging with CAV or other
        organizations that have a different focus, how do the people from the
        different organizations agree on how the money is to be used? Seems
        that money emmanates a personality distortion field that could create
        power struggles and so on among those that get near it. (I'm talking
        about jointly owned/controlled money. Individually owned money is not
        so much of a problem. :-)

        And how can we avoid becoming inflexible and stuck with promoting
        ideas that turn out to be bad or just get obsoleted by something
        better? I.e. how do we avoid becoming like CVD?

        What are the alternatives to creating a board-controlled nonprofit and
        chasing after money?

        One alternative is to recruit more volunteers to "the cause". Let me
        take this moment to invite everyone on this list to get involved with
        promoting better voting methods in whatever way you can and in
        whatever way interests and motivates you. Please "join" CRV by
        clicking on the "join" menu button on the RangeVoting.org web site.
        Tell us about yourself, your talents and relevant interests. Click on
        the "Help" link at the top of the RV front page to get some ideas of
        ways you can help.

        Anyway, there are 35 people in this RV Yahoo group. 17 of us have
        "joined" and appear in the member's directory. There are now 19 people
        who have given endorsements on the "endorsements" RV web page. Thanks
        to all of you who have joined or given your endorsements. To the rest
        of you, please join and/or endorse, and please lend a hand.

        Thanks,
        - Jan
      • warren_d_smith31
        I think Jan is right about a lot of the problems we will get if we get money. (And it is not clear we can get mucho money either.) But I also do not see an
        Message 3 of 4 , Jul 7, 2006
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          I think Jan is right about a lot of the problems we will get if we get money.
          (And it is not clear we can get mucho money either.)

          But I also do not see an alternative.
          yes we could in principle just get more members... but
          that is not working, at least not fast enough.
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