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A WARNING OUT OF LOVE - I am no longer promoting or supporting Chief Leonard Crow Dog to come to the Rainbow Gathering

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  • David Crockett Williams
    Ronald Delgado of Santa Barbara California was killed in Archie Fire Lame Deer s Vision Quest on July 12, 1980 ?? Thanks for sending me all this info. I
    Message 1 of 1 , May 11, 2006
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      "Ronald Delgado of Santa Barbara California was killed in
      Archie Fire Lame Deer's 'Vision Quest' on July 12, 1980" ??

      Thanks for sending me all this info. I spoke to Leonard
      Crow Dog yesterday on the phone, but Barry Tillman's
      call a month ago to him changed the focus I offered, from his
      coming to help conduct the WPPD ceremony in support
      of Chief Looking Horse on that ceremony, and overseeing
      the sweat lodges to guide the people to do it the right way, to
      instead Barry's own idea and agreement to raise money to support
      a peyote tipi meeting at the Rainbow Gathering which was all that
      was on Crow Dog's mind yesterday on the phone. I explained that
      thing is outside my experience and I have found Barry Tillman
      to be unreliable so I was not sure if he was going to fulfill that
      commitment to finance his way there for that peyote meeting.

      Barry unknowingly has destroyed the plan I had offered for
      Crow Dog to get onto a better path, by waiving the big
      money involved in these peyote meetings. It is now out
      of my hands and I can only announce that I am no longer
      promoting or supporting Leonard Crow Dog to come to
      the Rainbow Gathering. Knowing that he has a long-standing
      history with so many folks of alcohol abuse, which has not
      apparently gotten any better, it would in that light seem
      not good for him to bring that kind of unhealthy behavior
      to the gathering anyway and this is something that no longer
      should be overlooked because of his earlier reputation as a
      wise and good medicine man. He will be in my prayers also.

      Yes, I have good memories of him from 1977-98, but now
      I see his behavior has become unhealthy for himself and
      those of his influence. My admonitions as usual are
      that folks like Barry Tillman should better become deeper
      in their own spiritual ways, eg Judaism, instead of just taking
      on another's ego trip and following "Indian ways" not recognized
      as righteous by the proper leaders such as Chief Arvol Looking Horse.

      All My Relations

      "The truth will set you free, but first it may piss you off!"

      5/11/2006 5:52 PM

      ---begin important fwd post

      My below reference to "doing it the right way" means following
      the Lakota Ceremonial Protocol Directive of Chief Arvol Looking
      Horse. In the case of the inipi sweat lodge this means all of the
      hippie dippie sweats, by any cute names folks want to use for
      them, are dangerous misappropriation of sacred things for personal
      pleasure and toying around with, exactly the problem with folks
      who will not accept that there is a right and wrong and only
      selfishly see things in terms of what they want to do for personal
      desire gratification, and what they can "get away with," without
      realizing that such "authorities" expressed as this are for everyone's
      good and safety, as this writer below well explains, with whom
      I generally agree. Except I seem to have been misunderstood a bit,
      so for the record should say that I have stayed out of more offered
      inipi sweat lodges than I have participated in since my first one
      conducted by Dennis Banks at DQU in 1982. Most recently I had
      good learning experiences on all this in my area and refused to
      participate in what did not seem right. Also below is mentioned
      an incident with Archie Fire Lame Deer which I will investigate
      further since I respected and worked with him and do not agree
      with the assessment of him below. Many folks, of all ways, are
      unduly influenced and corrupted by the money trip, but
      one must look deeper for what is really going on.

      Also, I have no intention ever of conducting or initiating any
      kind of sweat lodge ceremony. The only thing I have been
      promoting is conducting a June 21 World Peace and Prayer
      Day Ceremony at the Colorado Rainbow Gathering, per
      proper protocol sent by Chief Looking Horse months ago
      via Paulah Horn for this purpose, and promoting the idea
      that at this year's gathering there should be no sweat lodges
      done unless "they are conducted right by those with the right".

      -----Original Message-----
      From: greatlakesrainbow@yahoogroups.com
      On Behalf Of ojibwesweetgrass
      Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 10:15 AM
      To: greatlakesrainbow@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [GLOW] Re: lethal sweat lodges - A WARNING OUT OF LOVE

      It is commonly believed that sweat lodge deaths are NOT due to lack
      of knowledge about how to "do it right" The belief that you can
      erase the damage done by exploiting Native culture by simply
      learning how to "do it right" is antithetical to the indigenous mind.
      Your thinking reveals a European mindframe.

      The most you can ever know about Native Spirituality is this:

      Those who know, don't tell
      Those who tell, don't know.

      I have never met a legitimate indigenous elder who didn't state that
      the reason people die in sweat lodges is that those who are NOT
      ENTITLED to perform them can't handle the power of the ritual. They
      all say that power in the hands of the ignorant and the arrogant can
      only be destructive. There is a general consensus among legitimate
      spiritual leaders that nonNDNZ can only harm themselves spiritually
      by trying to "practice" our spiritual ways. It has absolutely
      nothing to do with the type of materials they choose.

      There is a small minority of people on the internet who try to make
      it look and are very, very skilled at silencing legitimate indigenous
      They all stand to gain economically by strip mining our spirituality
      and selling it to the highest bidder.

      Crow Dog is a very controversial and universally despised character
      where I come from. I met him once and asked him to give me
      his 'knowledge' for free because I don't have the money to pay for
      his tapes and workshops. He got very nervous and refused. To a real
      (TM) NDN, this says a lot about him.

      This is taken from a very popular NDN site

      Please talk a moment to remember the victims of
      the exploitation of our culture in your prayers
      Rowen Cooke 37, Melbourne Australia
      died in a sweat lodge 2004
      Kylie Watts, 30 Byron Bay in New South Wales
      died in a sweat lodge in 2003
      Kirsten "Kris" Babcock 34 Redding, California
      died in a sweat lodge in 2002
      David Thomas Hawker, 36, of Union City, California
      died in a sweat lodge in 2002
      Gordon Reynolds, 43 of Twickenham, West London
      died in a sweat lodge on November 21, 1996
      Kelly Rice, 35 of Austin, Texas, housekeeper and masseuse, died of
      accidental heatstroke inside a sweat lodge 1993
      Ronald Delgado of Santa Barbara California was killed in Archie Fire
      Lame Deer's 'Vision Quest' on July 12, 1980"

      Lame Deer is a well known fraud and associated with
      most of the people conducting nonNDN sweats.

      Every summer, I pray that no one else has to die in a sweat lodge.

      I can't understand how anyone who has any genuine respect for
      indigenous people could even consider contributing to the
      destruction of our spirituality by participating in one of Crow
      Dog's sham sweats. This practice goes against all the beliefs of
      all the rainbows that I have become freinds with over the years.
      It's well know in NDN country that the man INTENDS to harm nonNDNZ
      by pushing his poison on them.

      I would recommend that you contact a legitimate, heriditary elder in
      the geographic area where you intend to conduct this sham ceremony
      and genuinely listen to him about the issue of nonNDNZ colonizing
      our spirituality. If you'd like to E-mail me privatley with the
      location, I would be happy to try get you in touch with a LEGITIMATE
      elder who would be willing to counsel you on this matter. I really
      hope that the pain and anguish that you will cause indigenous people
      when you conduct these ceremonies should be taken into account
      before you make any decsions - for a change.


      Mukwa Oodem

      --- In greatlakesrainbow@yahoogroups.com, "David Crockett Williams"
      <gear2000@...> wrote:
      > This is what got me going on my recent months rampage
      > ranting and raving over these rainbow lists to no avail
      > it seems. It was from Paulah Horne who explained on
      > behalf of Chief Arvol Looking Horse, 19th generation
      > keeper of the original White Buffalo Calf Pipe bundle,
      > that the reason he issued his Lakota Ceremonial Protocol
      > directive three years ago amid much controversy, saying
      > in essence regarding the inipi ("sweat lodge") and all the
      > other of the Seven Sacred Rites of the Sacred Pipe, that
      > "they should be done right or not at all". So far not one
      > person on these rainbow lists has agreed with this statement
      > and all are just arguing for continued "hippie dippie" sweat
      > lodge versions as most at the Rainbow Gatherings seem to
      > be. This Protocol Directive was issued because the news
      > press people were phoning the Lakota leaders with reports
      > of folks not knowing what they were doing conducting
      > sweat lodges with plastic etc and folks were dying in the
      > "Lakota sweat lodge" that was nothing to do with Lakota
      > people or ceremonies or leaders. Chief Looking Horse
      > says that he believes this pirating of their culture and
      > prayer ceremonies is what is spiritually responsible for
      > the bad condition that his people are in especially their
      > youth with alcoholism and now even methamphetamine
      > epidemics on the reservation, ie, that the new age types
      > just take and use anything the want to try and copy
      > without regard or respect for what the original culture
      > people want or how they do it. Anyone who conducts
      > the inipi now who pours the water must know the prayers
      > in the Lakota language, etc. This is why I have vigorously
      > invited Chief Leonard Crow Dog by phone to come to the
      > gathering this year to properly conduct and oversee the
      > inipi ceremonies that they are done right or not at all,
      > but except for Felipe Chavez, nobody else seems supportive
      > of this. This is what has had me so angry at the rainbow
      > folks in general on these lists where nobody is speaking
      > up for doing things right, like nobody cares about right
      > and wrong as long as everyone is polite and nice to
      > each other.
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: greatlakesrainbow@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:greatlakesrainbow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Taraka Das
      > Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 2:32 PM
      > To: greatlakesrainbow@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [GLOW] Indian Lore controversy
      > Wow man, I have never heard of anyone dying at a sweat lodge.
      > Running Wolf of Gadohi Usquanagodhi says that the tempertures
      > a lodge, scientifically measured, should kill, and that people
      > survive the ordeal through medicine and prayer, so I don't want to
      > be overly skeptical. But I am skeptical that a hippie who
      > has "GOTTEN" the teachings from a proper medicine teacher would so
      > woefully fail to conduct a proper lodge that people would die.
      > Please tell me the source of your info.
      > Mitakuye Oyasin!
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