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Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a tranny issue?

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  • Kevin Finch
    Thanks for the tips. I ll try the throttle switch adjustment and see how that works out. So I guess she is running normal for an RTS then. My only concern at
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 30, 2010
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      Thanks for the tips. I'll try the throttle switch adjustment and see how that
      works out. So I guess she is running normal for an RTS then. My only concern at
      this point is we are planning a trip to Colorado and I hear that some of the
      area has very steep grades. Any suggestions about traveling in the mountains
      with the RTS?

      One other concern. I was under the impression that the 410 gears would yield
      better fuel economy? The trip home averaged about 5 miles per gallon with an
      average speed of 65 mph. Is this about right or do you think I should have seen
      better fuel mileage?

      Again thanks for all the tips!



      ________________________________
      From: Pete <hawk_ii_mail@...>
      To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 11:04:12 AM
      Subject: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a tranny issue?

      Guess your bus is Bubba Jefs RTS

      It has a 6V92Ta not a 8v92

      If your problem arrises when you push the pedal to the floor and hold it thier -
      the tranny error code would usually be 21 - you can try pulling up the
      diagnostic switch and counting the pulses when it happens - do be aware that
      doing diagnostic while running will somethings shutdown the engine for a few
      seconds

      My guess is the TPS sender (the little pot that is inside the throttle pedal) is
      slightly out of adjustment - You can remove the throttle pedal and just loosen
      the screws that attach the pot so that it doesn't go as far

      My other guess is the TECL module (in the back about 1 or 2 feet down the ATEC
      computer cable there is a little black box about the size of a cigarette pack
      that INVERTS the PWM - (pulse width mudulated) DDEC TPS signal to tell the
      tranny the throttle position.

      Poor design - usually doesn't work all the time ??

      I would just try adjustng the throttle and use the tranny push buttons for down
      shifting on a hill - I understand that is the better way to handle hills -
      manually shifting down puts more pressure on the bands and lessens the friction
      from slippage ???

      P.S. -- Losing only 5-10 MPH on a hill is NORMAL for almost ANY RTS 


      Pete


      --- In RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com, "KevinF" <kevindapilot@...> wrote:
      >
      > I just purchached a 1988 RTS. I drove it home this weekend 500 miles. The
      >problem I'm having is that it looses power on the hills. She rolls great on flat
      >surface and down hills of course, but up a grade on the interstate (from
      >Atlanta) she looses 5-10 mph. Also the tranny light came on when I gave it too
      >much throttle from a low speed while climbing a ramp to a bridge. I know the
      >gears have been changed to 410, and I know the computer was swapped out. Has a
      >8v92TA engine.
      >
      >
      > The other thing I did notice is that there is no passing gear. the tranny wil
      >not step down when put under a load to increase the speed. It just acclerates at
      >its own pace, with no real noticable power.
      >
      > PETE? you know the bus that I bought, we spoke about it almost a year ago. JEFF
      >owned it in VA.
      >
      > Thanks for taking the time to read this post!
      >
      > Kevin
      >




      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • wayward@bigplanet.com
      Taller gears do not always translate into better fuel economy. Also it depends on the vehicle weight and what you are pulling behind you. I was getting about
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 1, 2010
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        Taller gears do not always translate into better fuel economy. Also
        it depends on the vehicle weight and what you are pulling behind you.
        I was getting about 7.5 mpg pulling my Jeep Wrangler. Keeping it at
        about 1700 rpm. I have a 350 hp 6V92 and 4:10 gears. Solo I was
        getting about 8.5 mpg. I can really tell in my Dina when I am pulling
        my new Jeep Unlimited. Driving it solo it will stay in 5th gear all
        the time and when I pull my Jeep it kicks down to 4th gear a lot. I
        was getting 10 mpg coming up from Texas in an empty bus, but now I am
        getting about 8 mpg in the conversion. The Dina has a small 11.1 60
        series with a B500, but fuel millage is not much better than the RTS.
        Fuel millage does matter, but bus conversions are not about saving
        fuel...lol. Wulf

        ---- Original Message ----
        From: kevindapilot@...
        To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
        tranny issue?
        Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 20:59:35 -0800 (PST)

        >Thanks for the tips. I'll try the throttle switch adjustment and see
        >how that
        >works out. So I guess she is running normal for an RTS then. My only
        >concern at
        >this point is we are planning a trip to Colorado and I hear that some
        >of the
        >area has very steep grades. Any suggestions about traveling in the
        >mountains
        >with the RTS?
        >
        >One other concern. I was under the impression that the 410 gears
        >would yield
        >better fuel economy? The trip home averaged about 5 miles per gallon
        >with an
        >average speed of 65 mph. Is this about right or do you think I should
        >have seen
        >better fuel mileage?
        >
        >Again thanks for all the tips!
        >
        >
        >
        >________________________________
        >From: Pete <hawk_ii_mail@...>
        >To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
        >Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 11:04:12 AM
        >Subject: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a tranny
        >issue?
        >
        >Guess your bus is Bubba Jefs RTS
        >
        >It has a 6V92Ta not a 8v92
        >
        >If your problem arrises when you push the pedal to the floor and hold
        >it thier -
        >the tranny error code would usually be 21 - you can try pulling up
        >the
        >diagnostic switch and counting the pulses when it happens - do be
        >aware that
        >doing diagnostic while running will somethings shutdown the engine
        >for a few
        >seconds
        >
        >My guess is the TPS sender (the little pot that is inside the
        >throttle pedal) is
        >slightly out of adjustment - You can remove the throttle pedal and
        >just loosen
        >the screws that attach the pot so that it doesn't go as far
        >
        >My other guess is the TECL module (in the back about 1 or 2 feet down
        >the ATEC
        >computer cable there is a little black box about the size of a
        >cigarette pack
        >that INVERTS the PWM - (pulse width mudulated) DDEC TPS signal to
        >tell the
        >tranny the throttle position.
        >
        >Poor design - usually doesn't work all the time ??
        >
        >I would just try adjustng the throttle and use the tranny push
        >buttons for down
        >shifting on a hill - I understand that is the better way to handle
        >hills -
        >manually shifting down puts more pressure on the bands and lessens
        >the friction
        >from slippage ???
        >
        >P.S. -- Losing only 5-10 MPH on a hill is NORMAL for almost ANY RTS 
        >
        >
        >Pete
        >
        >
        >--- In RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com, "KevinF" <kevindapilot@...>
        >wrote:
        >>
        >> I just purchached a 1988 RTS. I drove it home this weekend 500
        >miles. The
        >>problem I'm having is that it looses power on the hills. She rolls
        >great on flat
        >>surface and down hills of course, but up a grade on the interstate
        >(from
        >>Atlanta) she looses 5-10 mph. Also the tranny light came on when I
        >gave it too
        >>much throttle from a low speed while climbing a ramp to a bridge. I
        >know the
        >>gears have been changed to 410, and I know the computer was swapped
        >out. Has a
        >>8v92TA engine.
        >>
        >>
        >> The other thing I did notice is that there is no passing gear. the
        >tranny wil
        >>not step down when put under a load to increase the speed. It just
        >acclerates at
        >>its own pace, with no real noticable power.
        >>
        >> PETE? you know the bus that I bought, we spoke about it almost a
        >year ago. JEFF
        >>owned it in VA.
        >>
        >> Thanks for taking the time to read this post!
        >>
        >> Kevin
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >------------------------------------
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • carltwillbur@wmconnect.com
        Like others have said, slow accel is NORMAL... But if you can compare your RTS with another RTS, then you can determine if you have power issues. My parts
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 1, 2010
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          Like others have said, slow accel is NORMAL... But if you can compare your
          RTS with another RTS, then you can determine if you have power issues. My
          parts bus could run circles around my keeper bus. Both had the same rear
          end ratio. I mean no contest. Stop to top speed was 60 seconds in one and
          about half that in the other. Several things could contribute to that
          difference, all of which need to be addressed (meaning if turbo boost is off, fix
          that - or if air filter is dirty, change it etc...)

          Pulling a vehicle I lose 15% fuel economy.

          Tip on downshifting up a hill. Determine the speed at which it normally
          shifts into high (say 45 mph), then manually shift into 2nd at 45 when going
          up hill. DO NOT wait until you're at say 30 before downshifting.

          If the hill is steep enough, determine at what speed you shift into second
          while accelerating on the flat (say 20) and downshift into 1st at that speed.

          Note: typical upshift is 1st into 2nd, then lockup in 2nd, then 3rd while
          locked up. Trans will lockup in 1st if you manually keep it in 1st, making
          it seem like it shifts into 2nd, but only 1st locked up.

          And yes, you will be crawling up steep hills out west, especially with
          4.10's.

          The most common concern/complaint out west is overheating while pulling
          those long steep hills. Be prepared to go slow and pull over to let the beast
          cool down.

          THe DDEC will show overheating light around 204 degrees and engine shut
          down around 219. You cannot control that and need to cool it down at the 204
          mark. The computer will back off power quickly and will quickly hit the 219
          mark in those conditions.

          Check with others about trans overheating. Adding a trans heat gauge is a
          wise investment but I don't know the normal operating range for the V731.

          Carl</HTML>
        • Kevin Finch
          Thanks for the good info! I can I tell if Turbo boost is on or off? If it is off that may help a bit with the fuel milage as well as with climbing the hills! I
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 1, 2010
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            Thanks for the good info! I can I tell if Turbo boost is on or off? If it is off
            that may help a bit with the fuel milage as well as with climbing the hills! I
            dont have a tach so I have no idea what RPM's i'm running at. The bus has a the
            original dash, and I was thinking about changing it to something I can put more
            gagues in. A tach would be on of the first additions for sure! The speed ometer
            is off about 5 mph, my guess is because of the taller gears. could that cause
            the trans to shift at the wrong times?




            ________________________________
            From: "carltwillbur@..." <carltwillbur@...>
            To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 1:25:45 PM
            Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a tranny issue?

            Like others have said, slow accel is NORMAL...  But if you can compare your
            RTS with another RTS, then you can determine if you have power issues.  My
            parts bus could run circles around my keeper bus.  Both had the same rear
            end ratio.  I mean no contest.  Stop to top speed was 60 seconds in one and
            about half that in the other.  Several things could contribute to that
            difference, all of which need to be addressed (meaning if turbo boost is off,
            fix

            that - or if air filter is dirty, change it etc...)

            Pulling a vehicle I lose 15% fuel economy.

            Tip on downshifting up a hill.  Determine the speed at which it normally
            shifts into high (say 45 mph), then manually shift into 2nd at 45 when going
            up hill.  DO NOT wait until you're at say 30 before downshifting.

            If the hill is steep enough, determine at what speed you shift into second
            while accelerating on the flat (say 20) and downshift into 1st at that speed.

            Note: typical upshift is 1st into 2nd, then lockup in 2nd, then 3rd while
            locked up.  Trans will lockup in 1st if you manually keep it in 1st, making
            it seem like it shifts into 2nd, but only 1st locked up.

            And yes, you will be crawling up steep hills out west, especially with
            4.10's.

            The most common concern/complaint out west is overheating while pulling
            those long steep hills.  Be prepared to go slow and pull over to let the beast
            cool down.

            THe DDEC will show overheating light around 204 degrees and engine shut
            down around 219.  You cannot control that and need to cool it down at the 204
            mark.  The computer will back off power quickly and will quickly hit the 219
            mark in those conditions.

            Check with others about trans overheating.  Adding a trans heat gauge is a
            wise investment but I don't know the normal operating range for the V731.

            Carl</HTML>


            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kevin Finch
            The conversion in this bus is very basic, and incomplete. Water tanks are empty, and no vehicle being pulled. 7.5 mpg would be much easier to deal with than 5
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 1, 2010
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              The conversion in this bus is very basic, and incomplete. Water tanks are empty,
              and no vehicle being pulled. 7.5 mpg would be much easier to deal with than 5
              mpg, LOL! any suggestions?




              ________________________________
              From: "wayward@..." <wayward@...>
              To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 11:28:25 AM
              Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a tranny issue?

              Taller gears do not always translate into better fuel economy. Also
              it depends on the vehicle weight and what you are pulling behind you.
              I was getting about 7.5 mpg pulling my Jeep Wrangler. Keeping it at
              about 1700 rpm. I have a 350 hp 6V92 and 4:10 gears. Solo I was
              getting about 8.5 mpg. I can really tell in my Dina when I am pulling
              my new Jeep Unlimited. Driving it solo it will stay in 5th gear all
              the time and when I pull my Jeep it kicks down to 4th gear a lot. I
              was getting 10 mpg coming up from Texas in an empty bus, but now I am
              getting about 8 mpg in the conversion. The Dina has a small 11.1 60
              series with a B500, but fuel millage is not much better than the RTS.
              Fuel millage does matter, but bus conversions are not about saving
              fuel...lol. Wulf

              ---- Original Message ----
              From: kevindapilot@...
              To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
              tranny issue?
              Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 20:59:35 -0800 (PST)

              >Thanks for the tips. I'll try the throttle switch adjustment and see
              >how that
              >works out. So I guess she is running normal for an RTS then. My only
              >concern at
              >this point is we are planning a trip to Colorado and I hear that some
              >of the
              >area has very steep grades. Any suggestions about traveling in the
              >mountains
              >with the RTS?
              >
              >One other concern. I was under the impression that the 410 gears
              >would yield
              >better fuel economy? The trip home averaged about 5 miles per gallon
              >with an
              >average speed of 65 mph. Is this about right or do you think I should
              >have seen
              >better fuel mileage?
              >
              >Again thanks for all the tips!
              >
              >
              >
              >________________________________
              >From: Pete <hawk_ii_mail@...>
              >To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
              >Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 11:04:12 AM
              >Subject: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a tranny
              >issue?
              >
              >Guess your bus is Bubba Jefs RTS
              >
              >It has a 6V92Ta not a 8v92
              >
              >If your problem arrises when you push the pedal to the floor and hold
              >it thier -
              >the tranny error code would usually be 21 - you can try pulling up
              >the
              >diagnostic switch and counting the pulses when it happens - do be
              >aware that
              >doing diagnostic while running will somethings shutdown the engine
              >for a few
              >seconds
              >
              >My guess is the TPS sender (the little pot that is inside the
              >throttle pedal) is
              >slightly out of adjustment - You can remove the throttle pedal and
              >just loosen
              >the screws that attach the pot so that it doesn't go as far
              >
              >My other guess is the TECL module (in the back about 1 or 2 feet down
              >the ATEC
              >computer cable there is a little black box about the size of a
              >cigarette pack
              >that INVERTS the PWM - (pulse width mudulated) DDEC TPS signal to
              >tell the
              >tranny the throttle position.
              >
              >Poor design - usually doesn't work all the time ??
              >
              >I would just try adjustng the throttle and use the tranny push
              >buttons for down
              >shifting on a hill - I understand that is the better way to handle
              >hills -
              >manually shifting down puts more pressure on the bands and lessens
              >the friction
              >from slippage ???
              >
              >P.S. -- Losing only 5-10 MPH on a hill is NORMAL for almost ANY RTS 
              >
              >
              >Pete
              >
              >
              >--- In RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com, "KevinF" <kevindapilot@...>
              >wrote:
              >>
              >> I just purchached a 1988 RTS. I drove it home this weekend 500
              >miles. The
              >>problem I'm having is that it looses power on the hills. She rolls
              >great on flat
              >>surface and down hills of course, but up a grade on the interstate
              >(from
              >>Atlanta) she looses 5-10 mph. Also the tranny light came on when I
              >gave it too
              >>much throttle from a low speed while climbing a ramp to a bridge. I
              >know the
              >>gears have been changed to 410, and I know the computer was swapped
              >out. Has a
              >>8v92TA engine.
              >>
              >>
              >> The other thing I did notice is that there is no passing gear. the
              >tranny wil
              >>not step down when put under a load to increase the speed. It just
              >acclerates at
              >>its own pace, with no real noticable power.
              >>
              >> PETE? you know the bus that I bought, we spoke about it almost a
              >year ago. JEFF
              >>owned it in VA.
              >>
              >> Thanks for taking the time to read this post!
              >>
              >> Kevin
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >------------------------------------
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >     
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >




              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • wayward@bigplanet.com
              Between $ 0.40 per mile and $ 0.60 per mile is about all you can hope for. $ 0.25 per mile would be great, but you will need 12 mpg at $ 3.00 pg price. While a
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 2, 2010
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                Between $ 0.40 per mile and $ 0.60 per mile is about all you can hope
                for.
                $ 0.25 per mile would be great, but you will need 12 mpg at $ 3.00 pg
                price.
                While a full size car take about 1/2 of that much gas. If you travel
                light it's a lot cheaper using a car. It is just the feeling I have
                using the bus and we always had dogs to take along. It's actually
                mostly because our 3 dogs and cat that I got into motor homes and
                later buses. Nevertheless, it costs about $ 5.00 to drive 10 miles
                and that's something to think about. Maybe you remember when diesel
                was $ 0.14 per gallon or less than 1/2 of the gas...lol. Wulf

                ---- Original Message ----
                From: kevindapilot@...
                To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
                tranny issue?
                Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 20:35:35 -0800 (PST)

                >The conversion in this bus is very basic, and incomplete. Water tanks
                >are empty,
                >and no vehicle being pulled. 7.5 mpg would be much easier to deal
                >with than 5
                >mpg, LOL! any suggestions?
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >________________________________
                >From: "wayward@..." <wayward@...>
                >To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                >Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 11:28:25 AM
                >Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
                >tranny issue?
                >
                >Taller gears do not always translate into better fuel economy. Also
                >it depends on the vehicle weight and what you are pulling behind you.
                >I was getting about 7.5 mpg pulling my Jeep Wrangler. Keeping it at
                >about 1700 rpm. I have a 350 hp 6V92 and 4:10 gears. Solo I was
                >getting about 8.5 mpg. I can really tell in my Dina when I am pulling
                >my new Jeep Unlimited. Driving it solo it will stay in 5th gear all
                >the time and when I pull my Jeep it kicks down to 4th gear a lot. I
                >was getting 10 mpg coming up from Texas in an empty bus, but now I am
                >getting about 8 mpg in the conversion. The Dina has a small 11.1 60
                >series with a B500, but fuel millage is not much better than the RTS.
                >Fuel millage does matter, but bus conversions are not about saving
                >fuel...lol. Wulf
                >
                >---- Original Message ----
                >From: kevindapilot@...
                >To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
                >tranny issue?
                >Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 20:59:35 -0800 (PST)
                >
                >>Thanks for the tips. I'll try the throttle switch adjustment and see
                >>how that
                >>works out. So I guess she is running normal for an RTS then. My only
                >>concern at
                >>this point is we are planning a trip to Colorado and I hear that
                >some
                >>of the
                >>area has very steep grades. Any suggestions about traveling in the
                >>mountains
                >>with the RTS?
                >>
                >>One other concern. I was under the impression that the 410 gears
                >>would yield
                >>better fuel economy? The trip home averaged about 5 miles per gallon
                >>with an
                >>average speed of 65 mph. Is this about right or do you think I
                >should
                >>have seen
                >>better fuel mileage?
                >>
                >>Again thanks for all the tips!
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>________________________________
                >>From: Pete <hawk_ii_mail@...>
                >>To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                >>Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 11:04:12 AM
                >>Subject: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a tranny
                >>issue?
                >>
                >>Guess your bus is Bubba Jefs RTS
                >>
                >>It has a 6V92Ta not a 8v92
                >>
                >>If your problem arrises when you push the pedal to the floor and
                >hold
                >>it thier -
                >>the tranny error code would usually be 21 - you can try pulling up
                >>the
                >>diagnostic switch and counting the pulses when it happens - do be
                >>aware that
                >>doing diagnostic while running will somethings shutdown the engine
                >>for a few
                >>seconds
                >>
                >>My guess is the TPS sender (the little pot that is inside the
                >>throttle pedal) is
                >>slightly out of adjustment - You can remove the throttle pedal and
                >>just loosen
                >>the screws that attach the pot so that it doesn't go as far
                >>
                >>My other guess is the TECL module (in the back about 1 or 2 feet
                >down
                >>the ATEC
                >>computer cable there is a little black box about the size of a
                >>cigarette pack
                >>that INVERTS the PWM - (pulse width mudulated) DDEC TPS signal to
                >>tell the
                >>tranny the throttle position.
                >>
                >>Poor design - usually doesn't work all the time ??
                >>
                >>I would just try adjustng the throttle and use the tranny push
                >>buttons for down
                >>shifting on a hill - I understand that is the better way to handle
                >>hills -
                >>manually shifting down puts more pressure on the bands and lessens
                >>the friction
                >>from slippage ???
                >>
                >>P.S. -- Losing only 5-10 MPH on a hill is NORMAL for almost ANY RTS 
                >
                >>
                >>
                >>Pete
                >>
                >>
                >>--- In RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com, "KevinF" <kevindapilot@...>
                >>wrote:
                >>>
                >>> I just purchached a 1988 RTS. I drove it home this weekend 500
                >>miles. The
                >>>problem I'm having is that it looses power on the hills. She rolls
                >>great on flat
                >>>surface and down hills of course, but up a grade on the interstate
                >>(from
                >>>Atlanta) she looses 5-10 mph. Also the tranny light came on when I
                >>gave it too
                >>>much throttle from a low speed while climbing a ramp to a bridge. I
                >>know the
                >>>gears have been changed to 410, and I know the computer was swapped
                >>out. Has a
                >>>8v92TA engine.
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> The other thing I did notice is that there is no passing gear. the
                >>tranny wil
                >>>not step down when put under a load to increase the speed. It just
                >>acclerates at
                >>>its own pace, with no real noticable power.
                >>>
                >>> PETE? you know the bus that I bought, we spoke about it almost a
                >>year ago. JEFF
                >>>owned it in VA.
                >>>
                >>> Thanks for taking the time to read this post!
                >>>
                >>> Kevin
                >>>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>------------------------------------
                >>
                >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>     
                >>
                >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >------------------------------------
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Pete
                I relied to this message yesterday and never saw it posted - what s up with Yahoo Groups ???? For an RTS 4.10 -it s about 2150rpms at 75MPH or 28.6 rpms per
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 3, 2010
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                  I relied to this message yesterday and never saw it posted - what's up with Yahoo Groups ????

                  For an RTS 4.10 -it's about 2150rpms at 75MPH or 28.6 rpms per MPH

                  so if you keep your foot out of the throttle - run about 62-65 mph (1770-1860 rpms) which is about the top of the 6V92 efficency curve

                  but MORE IMPORTANTLY - ANYTHING over 60 mph - the drag just goes to hell - you will pay exponentially for every MPH over 60 mph

                  With my X-rts 35' DDEC-II California 277HP 4.10 without a toad - I could get almost 10MPG driving that way

                  If my math is correct the max speed for each gear at 2150 rpms - (what your DDEC and most mechanical goveners are set at)
                  FOR A 4.10 is about:

                  3rd = 75MPH
                  2nd = 55MPH
                  1st = 35MPH

                  so

                  My Downshifting Criteria was

                  A- IF I could no longer accelerate with more throttle
                  (the mphs are dropping).

                  B- AND the speed has dropped of so that the RTS was
                  under about 1200 to 1400 rpms which would be for a 4.10
                  47MPH in 3rd gear
                  30MPH in 2nd gear
                  THEN MANUALLY DOWN SHIFT


                  For mountain driving - the other simple rule for me was
                  NEVER NEVER go down a hill faster than you went up it !!!!!!!
                  (don't ask me how I know this - it was scary as hell)

                  Pete

                  P.S. - If you can get your RTS past 70MPH on a flat roads - YOUR TURBO IS WORKING

                  Simple DYNO TEST ---

                  (My X-RTS Benchmark)
                  0-60 MPH in 41.7 seconds
                  0-50 MPH in 28.5
                  0-40 MPH in 19.7
                  0-30 MPH in 13.3
                  Then you have a VERY good engine


                  You don't really need a tach - BUT if you do I sell a full set of Monaco Gauges with senders for $229 --> see
                  http://www.busnut.com/classifieds/index.php?a=2&b=707

                  and

                  http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2135217490037964197TjXmdx
                  (My X-RTS with the set installed - only have 2 black faced sets left)







                  --- In RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Finch <kevindapilot@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Thanks for the good info! I can I tell if Turbo boost is on or off? If it is off
                  > that may help a bit with the fuel milage as well as with climbing the hills! I
                  > dont have a tach so I have no idea what RPM's i'm running at. The bus has a the
                  > original dash, and I was thinking about changing it to something I can put more
                  > gagues in. A tach would be on of the first additions for sure! The speed ometer
                  > is off about 5 mph, my guess is because of the taller gears. could that cause
                  > the trans to shift at the wrong times?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: "carltwillbur@..." <carltwillbur@...>
                  > To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 1:25:45 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a tranny issue?
                  >
                  > Like others have said, slow accel is NORMAL...  But if you can compare your
                  > RTS with another RTS, then you can determine if you have power issues.  My
                  > parts bus could run circles around my keeper bus.  Both had the same rear
                  > end ratio.  I mean no contest.  Stop to top speed was 60 seconds in one and
                  > about half that in the other.  Several things could contribute to that
                  > difference, all of which need to be addressed (meaning if turbo boost is off,
                  > fix
                  >
                  > that - or if air filter is dirty, change it etc...)
                  >
                  > Pulling a vehicle I lose 15% fuel economy.
                  >
                  > Tip on downshifting up a hill.  Determine the speed at which it normally
                  > shifts into high (say 45 mph), then manually shift into 2nd at 45 when going
                  > up hill.  DO NOT wait until you're at say 30 before downshifting.
                  >
                  > If the hill is steep enough, determine at what speed you shift into second
                  > while accelerating on the flat (say 20) and downshift into 1st at that speed.
                  >
                  > Note: typical upshift is 1st into 2nd, then lockup in 2nd, then 3rd while
                  > locked up.  Trans will lockup in 1st if you manually keep it in 1st, making
                  > it seem like it shifts into 2nd, but only 1st locked up.
                  >
                  > And yes, you will be crawling up steep hills out west, especially with
                  > 4.10's.
                  >
                  > The most common concern/complaint out west is overheating while pulling
                  > those long steep hills.  Be prepared to go slow and pull over to let the beast
                  > cool down.
                  >
                  > THe DDEC will show overheating light around 204 degrees and engine shut
                  > down around 219.  You cannot control that and need to cool it down at the 204
                  > mark.  The computer will back off power quickly and will quickly hit the 219
                  > mark in those conditions.
                  >
                  > Check with others about trans overheating.  Adding a trans heat gauge is a
                  > wise investment but I don't know the normal operating range for the V731.
                  >
                  > Carl</HTML>
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • wayward@bigplanet.com
                  I used my GPS and I got 81 mph at 2250 rpm. I also have the 4:10 and I also run tall 11R24.5 tires. I am positive about the 81 mph off my GPS, because my Jeep
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 3, 2010
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                    I used my GPS and I got 81 mph at 2250 rpm. I also have the 4:10 and
                    I also run tall 11R24.5 tires. I am positive about the 81 mph off my
                    GPS, because my Jeep Wrangler also has a GPS and that match up
                    perfect. I maybe off on the rpm. The best I got running solo is about
                    8.5 mpg, but mine is a 40'
                    38,000 LB conversion. Pulling my 4 door Wrangler I get about 6.5 mpg,
                    but that square car is like towing a giant brick. Wulf

                    ---- Original Message ----
                    From: hawk_ii_mail@...
                    To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a tranny
                    issue?
                    Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 13:18:12 -0000

                    >I relied to this message yesterday and never saw it posted - what's
                    >up with Yahoo Groups ????
                    >
                    >For an RTS 4.10 -it's about 2150rpms at 75MPH or 28.6 rpms per MPH
                    >
                    >so if you keep your foot out of the throttle - run about 62-65 mph
                    >(1770-1860 rpms) which is about the top of the 6V92 efficency curve
                    >
                    >but MORE IMPORTANTLY - ANYTHING over 60 mph - the drag just goes to
                    >hell - you will pay exponentially for every MPH over 60 mph
                    >
                    >With my X-rts 35' DDEC-II California 277HP 4.10 without a toad - I
                    >could get almost 10MPG driving that way
                    >
                    >If my math is correct the max speed for each gear at 2150 rpms -
                    >(what your DDEC and most mechanical goveners are set at)
                    >FOR A 4.10 is about:
                    >
                    >3rd = 75MPH
                    >2nd = 55MPH
                    >1st = 35MPH
                    >
                    >so
                    >
                    >My Downshifting Criteria was
                    >
                    >A- IF I could no longer accelerate with more throttle
                    > (the mphs are dropping).
                    >
                    >B- AND the speed has dropped of so that the RTS was
                    > under about 1200 to 1400 rpms which would be for a 4.10
                    > 47MPH in 3rd gear
                    > 30MPH in 2nd gear
                    >THEN MANUALLY DOWN SHIFT
                    >
                    >
                    >For mountain driving - the other simple rule for me was
                    >NEVER NEVER go down a hill faster than you went up it !!!!!!!
                    >(don't ask me how I know this - it was scary as hell)
                    >
                    >Pete
                    >
                    >P.S. - If you can get your RTS past 70MPH on a flat roads - YOUR
                    >TURBO IS WORKING
                    >
                    >Simple DYNO TEST ---
                    >
                    >(My X-RTS Benchmark)
                    >0-60 MPH in 41.7 seconds
                    >0-50 MPH in 28.5
                    >0-40 MPH in 19.7
                    >0-30 MPH in 13.3
                    >Then you have a VERY good engine
                    >
                    >
                    >You don't really need a tach - BUT if you do I sell a full set of
                    >Monaco Gauges with senders for $229 --> see
                    >http://www.busnut.com/classifieds/index.php?a=2&b=707
                    >
                    >and
                    >
                    >http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2135217490037964197TjXmdx
                    >(My X-RTS with the set installed - only have 2 black faced sets left)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >--- In RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Finch <kevindapilot@...>
                    >wrote:
                    >>
                    >> Thanks for the good info! I can I tell if Turbo boost is on or off?
                    >If it is off
                    >> that may help a bit with the fuel milage as well as with climbing
                    >the hills! I
                    >> dont have a tach so I have no idea what RPM's i'm running at. The
                    >bus has a the
                    >> original dash, and I was thinking about changing it to something I
                    >can put more
                    >> gagues in. A tach would be on of the first additions for sure! The
                    >speed ometer
                    >> is off about 5 mph, my guess is because of the taller gears. could
                    >that cause
                    >> the trans to shift at the wrong times?
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> ________________________________
                    >> From: "carltwillbur@..." <carltwillbur@...>
                    >> To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                    >> Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 1:25:45 PM
                    >> Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
                    >tranny issue?
                    >>
                    >> Like others have said, slow accel is NORMAL...  But if you can
                    >compare your
                    >> RTS with another RTS, then you can determine if you have power
                    >issues.  My
                    >> parts bus could run circles around my keeper bus.  Both had the
                    >same rear
                    >> end ratio.  I mean no contest.  Stop to top speed was 60 seconds in
                    >one and
                    >> about half that in the other.  Several things could contribute to
                    >that
                    >> difference, all of which need to be addressed (meaning if turbo
                    >boost is off,
                    >> fix
                    >>
                    >> that - or if air filter is dirty, change it etc...)
                    >>
                    >> Pulling a vehicle I lose 15% fuel economy.
                    >>
                    >> Tip on downshifting up a hill.  Determine the speed at which it
                    >normally
                    >> shifts into high (say 45 mph), then manually shift into 2nd at 45
                    >when going
                    >> up hill.  DO NOT wait until you're at say 30 before downshifting.
                    >>
                    >> If the hill is steep enough, determine at what speed you shift into
                    >second
                    >> while accelerating on the flat (say 20) and downshift into 1st at
                    >that speed.
                    >>
                    >> Note: typical upshift is 1st into 2nd, then lockup in 2nd, then 3rd
                    >while
                    >> locked up.  Trans will lockup in 1st if you manually keep it in
                    >1st, making
                    >> it seem like it shifts into 2nd, but only 1st locked up.
                    >>
                    >> And yes, you will be crawling up steep hills out west, especially
                    >with
                    >> 4.10's.
                    >>
                    >> The most common concern/complaint out west is overheating while
                    >pulling
                    >> those long steep hills.  Be prepared to go slow and pull over to
                    >let the beast
                    >> cool down.
                    >>
                    >> THe DDEC will show overheating light around 204 degrees and engine
                    >shut
                    >> down around 219.  You cannot control that and need to cool it down
                    >at the 204
                    >> mark.  The computer will back off power quickly and will quickly
                    >hit the 219
                    >> mark in those conditions.
                    >>
                    >> Check with others about trans overheating.  Adding a trans heat
                    >gauge is a
                    >> wise investment but I don't know the normal operating range for the
                    >V731.
                    >>
                    >> Carl</HTML>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> ------------------------------------
                    >>
                    >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                  • Pete
                    Wulf - IIRC yours is a MUI with big injectors - true !!!
                    Message 9 of 20 , Dec 3, 2010
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                      Wulf - IIRC yours is a MUI with big injectors - true !!!



                      --- In RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com, wayward@... wrote:
                      >
                      > I used my GPS and I got 81 mph at 2250 rpm. I also have the 4:10 and
                      > I also run tall 11R24.5 tires. I am positive about the 81 mph off my
                      > GPS, because my Jeep Wrangler also has a GPS and that match up
                      > perfect. I maybe off on the rpm. The best I got running solo is about
                      > 8.5 mpg, but mine is a 40'
                      > 38,000 LB conversion. Pulling my 4 door Wrangler I get about 6.5 mpg,
                      > but that square car is like towing a giant brick. Wulf
                      >
                      > ---- Original Message ----
                      > From: hawk_ii_mail@...
                      > To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a tranny
                      > issue?
                      > Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 13:18:12 -0000
                      >
                      > >I relied to this message yesterday and never saw it posted - what's
                      > >up with Yahoo Groups ????
                      > >
                      > >For an RTS 4.10 -it's about 2150rpms at 75MPH or 28.6 rpms per MPH
                      > >
                      > >so if you keep your foot out of the throttle - run about 62-65 mph
                      > >(1770-1860 rpms) which is about the top of the 6V92 efficency curve
                      > >
                      > >but MORE IMPORTANTLY - ANYTHING over 60 mph - the drag just goes to
                      > >hell - you will pay exponentially for every MPH over 60 mph
                      > >
                      > >With my X-rts 35' DDEC-II California 277HP 4.10 without a toad - I
                      > >could get almost 10MPG driving that way
                      > >
                      > >If my math is correct the max speed for each gear at 2150 rpms -
                      > >(what your DDEC and most mechanical goveners are set at)
                      > >FOR A 4.10 is about:
                      > >
                      > >3rd = 75MPH
                      > >2nd = 55MPH
                      > >1st = 35MPH
                      > >
                      > >so
                      > >
                      > >My Downshifting Criteria was
                      > >
                      > >A- IF I could no longer accelerate with more throttle
                      > > (the mphs are dropping).
                      > >
                      > >B- AND the speed has dropped of so that the RTS was
                      > > under about 1200 to 1400 rpms which would be for a 4.10
                      > > 47MPH in 3rd gear
                      > > 30MPH in 2nd gear
                      > >THEN MANUALLY DOWN SHIFT
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >For mountain driving - the other simple rule for me was
                      > >NEVER NEVER go down a hill faster than you went up it !!!!!!!
                      > >(don't ask me how I know this - it was scary as hell)
                      > >
                      > >Pete
                      > >
                      > >P.S. - If you can get your RTS past 70MPH on a flat roads - YOUR
                      > >TURBO IS WORKING
                      > >
                      > >Simple DYNO TEST ---
                      > >
                      > >(My X-RTS Benchmark)
                      > >0-60 MPH in 41.7 seconds
                      > >0-50 MPH in 28.5
                      > >0-40 MPH in 19.7
                      > >0-30 MPH in 13.3
                      > >Then you have a VERY good engine
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >You don't really need a tach - BUT if you do I sell a full set of
                      > >Monaco Gauges with senders for $229 --> see
                      > >http://www.busnut.com/classifieds/index.php?a=2&b=707
                      > >
                      > >and
                      > >
                      > >http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2135217490037964197TjXmdx
                      > >(My X-RTS with the set installed - only have 2 black faced sets left)
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >--- In RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Finch <kevindapilot@>
                      > >wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >> Thanks for the good info! I can I tell if Turbo boost is on or off?
                      > >If it is off
                      > >> that may help a bit with the fuel milage as well as with climbing
                      > >the hills! I
                      > >> dont have a tach so I have no idea what RPM's i'm running at. The
                      > >bus has a the
                      > >> original dash, and I was thinking about changing it to something I
                      > >can put more
                      > >> gagues in. A tach would be on of the first additions for sure! The
                      > >speed ometer
                      > >> is off about 5 mph, my guess is because of the taller gears. could
                      > >that cause
                      > >> the trans to shift at the wrong times?
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> ________________________________
                      > >> From: "carltwillbur@" <carltwillbur@>
                      > >> To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                      > >> Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 1:25:45 PM
                      > >> Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
                      > >tranny issue?
                      > >>
                      > >> Like others have said, slow accel is NORMAL...  But if you can
                      > >compare your
                      > >> RTS with another RTS, then you can determine if you have power
                      > >issues.  My
                      > >> parts bus could run circles around my keeper bus.  Both had the
                      > >same rear
                      > >> end ratio.  I mean no contest.  Stop to top speed was 60 seconds in
                      > >one and
                      > >> about half that in the other.  Several things could contribute to
                      > >that
                      > >> difference, all of which need to be addressed (meaning if turbo
                      > >boost is off,
                      > >> fix
                      > >>
                      > >> that - or if air filter is dirty, change it etc...)
                      > >>
                      > >> Pulling a vehicle I lose 15% fuel economy.
                      > >>
                      > >> Tip on downshifting up a hill.  Determine the speed at which it
                      > >normally
                      > >> shifts into high (say 45 mph), then manually shift into 2nd at 45
                      > >when going
                      > >> up hill.  DO NOT wait until you're at say 30 before downshifting.
                      > >>
                      > >> If the hill is steep enough, determine at what speed you shift into
                      > >second
                      > >> while accelerating on the flat (say 20) and downshift into 1st at
                      > >that speed.
                      > >>
                      > >> Note: typical upshift is 1st into 2nd, then lockup in 2nd, then 3rd
                      > >while
                      > >> locked up.  Trans will lockup in 1st if you manually keep it in
                      > >1st, making
                      > >> it seem like it shifts into 2nd, but only 1st locked up.
                      > >>
                      > >> And yes, you will be crawling up steep hills out west, especially
                      > >with
                      > >> 4.10's.
                      > >>
                      > >> The most common concern/complaint out west is overheating while
                      > >pulling
                      > >> those long steep hills.  Be prepared to go slow and pull over to
                      > >let the beast
                      > >> cool down.
                      > >>
                      > >> THe DDEC will show overheating light around 204 degrees and engine
                      > >shut
                      > >> down around 219.  You cannot control that and need to cool it down
                      > >at the 204
                      > >> mark.  The computer will back off power quickly and will quickly
                      > >hit the 219
                      > >> mark in those conditions.
                      > >>
                      > >> Check with others about trans overheating.  Adding a trans heat
                      > >gauge is a
                      > >> wise investment but I don't know the normal operating range for the
                      > >V731.
                      > >>
                      > >> Carl</HTML>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> ------------------------------------
                      > >>
                      > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • morrow916@juno.com
                      Hello all had a rough year just got my computer back 6 million e-mail to catch up on. just wondering if you have 4.56 rear end what is the fuel mileage
                      Message 10 of 20 , Dec 3, 2010
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                        Hello all had a rough year just got my computer back 6 million e-mail to catch up on. just wondering if you have 4.56 rear end what is the fuel mileage
                        ____________________________________________________________
                        Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
                        If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
                        http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4cf965d9b8da44cd748st05duc

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Kevin Finch
                        I have 22.5 tires. Acceleration just seems slow to me, but after looking at the post that Pete sent concerning acceleration speeds and time, it must be
                        Message 11 of 20 , Dec 4, 2010
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                          I have 22.5 tires. Acceleration just seems slow to me, but after looking at the
                          post that Pete sent concerning acceleration speeds and time, it must be running
                          normal. I can say that during my 500 mile trip i was running pretty consistant
                          at about 65 mph. A few times she crawled to 70mph. Maybe the tire size is a
                          factor in MPG?

                          I think you mentioned the turbo may not be on. How can the turbo be turn on and
                          off. Working on trucks in the past, i've never seen a turbo that could be
                          switched on or off. Pete says if she can run up to 70 mph, the turbo is working.
                          Other than that I have no way of knowing  if it is or not.  

                          8.5 MPH would be great! In fact on of my easons for getting the RTS was because
                          I was told it would get better MPH, over an MCI or over the road coach.





                          ________________________________
                          From: "wayward@..." <wayward@...>
                          To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 8:18:04 AM
                          Subject: RE: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a tranny issue?

                          I used my GPS and I got 81 mph at 2250 rpm. I also have the 4:10 and
                          I also run tall 11R24.5 tires. I am positive about the 81 mph off my
                          GPS, because my Jeep Wrangler also has a GPS and that match up
                          perfect. I maybe off on the rpm. The best I got running solo is about
                          8.5 mpg, but mine is a 40'
                          38,000 LB conversion. Pulling my 4 door Wrangler I get about 6.5 mpg,
                          but that square car is like towing a giant brick. Wulf 

                          ---- Original Message ----
                          From: hawk_ii_mail@...
                          To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a tranny
                          issue?
                          Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 13:18:12 -0000

                          >I relied to this message yesterday and never saw it posted - what's
                          >up with Yahoo Groups ????
                          >
                          >For an RTS 4.10 -it's about 2150rpms at 75MPH or 28.6 rpms per MPH
                          >
                          >so if you keep your foot out of the throttle - run about 62-65 mph
                          >(1770-1860 rpms) which is about the top of the 6V92 efficency curve
                          >
                          >but MORE IMPORTANTLY - ANYTHING over 60 mph - the drag just goes to
                          >hell - you will pay exponentially for every MPH over 60 mph
                          >
                          >With my X-rts 35' DDEC-II California 277HP 4.10 without a toad - I
                          >could get almost 10MPG driving that way
                          >
                          >If my math is correct the max speed for each gear at 2150 rpms -
                          >(what your DDEC and most mechanical goveners are set at)
                          >FOR A 4.10 is about:
                          >
                          >3rd = 75MPH
                          >2nd = 55MPH
                          >1st = 35MPH
                          >
                          >so
                          >
                          >My Downshifting Criteria was
                          >
                          >A- IF I could no longer accelerate with more throttle
                          >  (the mphs are dropping).
                          >
                          >B- AND the speed has dropped of so that the RTS was
                          >  under about 1200 to 1400 rpms which would be for a 4.10
                          >  47MPH in 3rd gear
                          >  30MPH in 2nd gear
                          >THEN MANUALLY DOWN SHIFT
                          >
                          >
                          >For mountain driving - the other simple rule for me was
                          >NEVER NEVER go down a hill faster than you went up it !!!!!!!
                          >(don't ask me how I know this - it was scary as hell)
                          >
                          >Pete
                          >
                          >P.S. - If you can get your RTS past 70MPH on a flat roads - YOUR
                          >TURBO IS WORKING
                          >
                          >Simple DYNO TEST ---
                          >
                          >(My X-RTS Benchmark)
                          >0-60 MPH in 41.7 seconds
                          >0-50 MPH in 28.5
                          >0-40 MPH in 19.7
                          >0-30 MPH in 13.3
                          >Then you have a VERY good engine
                          >
                          >
                          >You don't really need a tach - BUT if you do I sell a full set of
                          >Monaco Gauges with senders for $229 --> see
                          >http://www.busnut.com/classifieds/index.php?a=2&b=707
                          >
                          >and
                          >
                          >http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2135217490037964197TjXmdx
                          >(My X-RTS with the set installed - only have 2 black faced sets left)
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >--- In RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Finch <kevindapilot@...>
                          >wrote:
                          >>
                          >> Thanks for the good info! I can I tell if Turbo boost is on or off?
                          >If it is off
                          >> that may help a bit with the fuel milage as well as with climbing
                          >the hills! I
                          >> dont have a tach so I have no idea what RPM's i'm running at. The
                          >bus has a the
                          >> original dash, and I was thinking about changing it to something I
                          >can put more
                          >> gagues in. A tach would be on of the first additions for sure! The
                          >speed ometer
                          >> is off about 5 mph, my guess is because of the taller gears. could
                          >that cause
                          >> the trans to shift at the wrong times?
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> ________________________________
                          >> From: "carltwillbur@..." <carltwillbur@...>
                          >> To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                          >> Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 1:25:45 PM
                          >> Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
                          >tranny issue?
                          >>
                          >> Like others have said, slow accel is NORMAL...  But if you can
                          >compare your
                          >> RTS with another RTS, then you can determine if you have power
                          >issues.  My
                          >> parts bus could run circles around my keeper bus.  Both had the
                          >same rear
                          >> end ratio.  I mean no contest.  Stop to top speed was 60 seconds in
                          >one and
                          >> about half that in the other.  Several things could contribute to
                          >that
                          >> difference, all of which need to be addressed (meaning if turbo
                          >boost is off,
                          >> fix
                          >>
                          >> that - or if air filter is dirty, change it etc...)
                          >>
                          >> Pulling a vehicle I lose 15% fuel economy.
                          >>
                          >> Tip on downshifting up a hill.  Determine the speed at which it
                          >normally
                          >> shifts into high (say 45 mph), then manually shift into 2nd at 45
                          >when going
                          >> up hill.  DO NOT wait until you're at say 30 before downshifting.
                          >>
                          >> If the hill is steep enough, determine at what speed you shift into
                          >second
                          >> while accelerating on the flat (say 20) and downshift into 1st at
                          >that speed.
                          >>
                          >> Note: typical upshift is 1st into 2nd, then lockup in 2nd, then 3rd
                          >while
                          >> locked up.  Trans will lockup in 1st if you manually keep it in
                          >1st, making
                          >> it seem like it shifts into 2nd, but only 1st locked up.
                          >>
                          >> And yes, you will be crawling up steep hills out west, especially
                          >with
                          >> 4.10's.
                          >>
                          >> The most common concern/complaint out west is overheating while
                          >pulling
                          >> those long steep hills.  Be prepared to go slow and pull over to
                          >let the beast
                          >> cool down.
                          >>
                          >> THe DDEC will show overheating light around 204 degrees and engine
                          >shut
                          >> down around 219.  You cannot control that and need to cool it down
                          >at the 204
                          >> mark.  The computer will back off power quickly and will quickly
                          >hit the 219
                          >> mark in those conditions.
                          >>
                          >> Check with others about trans overheating.  Adding a trans heat
                          >gauge is a
                          >> wise investment but I don't know the normal operating range for the
                          >V731.
                          >>
                          >> Carl</HTML>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> ------------------------------------
                          >>
                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>     
                          >>
                          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>
                          >
                          >




                          ------------------------------------

                          Yahoo! Groups Links






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Kevin Finch
                          I have 4:10 gears and currently getting 5 MPG! ________________________________ From: morrow916@juno.com To:
                          Message 12 of 20 , Dec 4, 2010
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                            I have 4:10 gears and currently getting 5 MPG!




                            ________________________________
                            From: "morrow916@..." <Morrow916@...>
                            To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 3:47:52 PM
                            Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a tranny issue?

                            Hello all had a rough year just got my computer back  6 million e-mail to catch
                            up on.  just wondering if you have 4.56 rear end what is the fuel mileage
                            ____________________________________________________________
                            Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
                            If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
                            http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4cf965d9b8da44cd748st05duc

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                            ------------------------------------

                            Yahoo! Groups Links






                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • wayward@bigplanet.com
                            That s not good enough. How is your air cleaner? What are you pulling with your bus? Is you turbo working ok? No leaks in the exhaust going to the turbo? Too
                            Message 13 of 20 , Dec 4, 2010
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                              That's not good enough. How is your air cleaner? What are you pulling
                              with your bus? Is you turbo working ok? No leaks in the exhaust going
                              to the turbo? Too much fuel and not enough air. Tire pressure? It
                              will depend on a lot of things. Where you are driving, how you are
                              driving and what you are pulling with your bus, but you should get at
                              least 6.5 mpg. Wulf

                              ---- Original Message ----
                              From: kevindapilot@...
                              To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
                              tranny issue?
                              Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 08:49:18 -0800 (PST)

                              >I have 4:10 gears and currently getting 5 MPG!
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >________________________________
                              >From: "morrow916@..." <Morrow916@...>
                              >To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                              >Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 3:47:52 PM
                              >Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
                              >tranny issue?
                              >
                              >Hello all had a rough year just got my computer back  6 million
                              >e-mail to catch
                              >up on.  just wondering if you have 4.56 rear end what is the fuel
                              >mileage
                              >____________________________________________________________
                              >Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
                              >If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
                              >http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4cf965d9b8da44cd748st05duc
                              >
                              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >------------------------------------
                              >
                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • wayward@bigplanet.com
                              If you got a bad turbo you will get a lot of black smoke. You could have a leak in the air box. Usually the leak is where the pipe goes in from the after
                              Message 14 of 20 , Dec 4, 2010
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                                If you got a bad turbo you will get a lot of black smoke. You could
                                have a leak in the air box. Usually the leak is where the pipe goes
                                in from the after cooler. But if you have a leak in the air box black
                                smoke will come out of that hole. All it takes is a small hole in the
                                exhaust system. I had a bad header in my Eagle. It was rusted out. It
                                was not blowing black smoke, but I lost power. I had a pyrometer on
                                my Eagle and a turbo pressure gauge these are very good gauges to
                                have if you running big injectors like we do. I noticed my Pyrometer
                                running really hot and turbo pressure was low. I knew right away the
                                turbo was not putting out enough. It was just a very small leak but I
                                cold hear it well enough after I opened the engine hatch. It was a
                                bitch to get the heater, because the Eagle uses a special header that
                                faces up and over, different from any other bus, but the RTS is no
                                problem to get about anything. Tire make only a 2.5% difference,
                                because the 12R22.5 is about as tall as the 11R24.5. I ran tires as
                                small as 11R22.5 on my RTS to get the best rpm for 65 mph. I went
                                back to the 11R24.5 Wulf

                                ---- Original Message ----
                                From: kevindapilot@...
                                To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
                                tranny issue?
                                Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 08:46:29 -0800 (PST)

                                >I have 22.5 tires. Acceleration just seems slow to me, but after
                                >looking at the
                                >post that Pete sent concerning acceleration speeds and time, it must
                                >be running
                                >normal. I can say that during my 500 mile trip i was running pretty
                                >consistant
                                >at about 65 mph. A few times she crawled to 70mph. Maybe the tire
                                >size is a
                                >factor in MPG?
                                >
                                >I think you mentioned the turbo may not be on. How can the turbo be
                                >turn on and
                                >off. Working on trucks in the past, i've never seen a turbo that
                                >could be
                                >switched on or off. Pete says if she can run up to 70 mph, the turbo
                                >is working.
                                >Other than that I have no way of knowing  if it is or not.  
                                >
                                >8.5 MPH would be great! In fact on of my easons for getting the RTS
                                >was because
                                >I was told it would get better MPH, over an MCI or over the road
                                >coach.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >________________________________
                                >From: "wayward@..." <wayward@...>
                                >To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                                >Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 8:18:04 AM
                                >Subject: RE: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
                                >tranny issue?
                                >
                                >I used my GPS and I got 81 mph at 2250 rpm. I also have the 4:10 and
                                >I also run tall 11R24.5 tires. I am positive about the 81 mph off my
                                >GPS, because my Jeep Wrangler also has a GPS and that match up
                                >perfect. I maybe off on the rpm. The best I got running solo is about
                                >8.5 mpg, but mine is a 40'
                                >38,000 LB conversion. Pulling my 4 door Wrangler I get about 6.5 mpg,
                                >but that square car is like towing a giant brick. Wulf 
                                >
                                >---- Original Message ----
                                >From: hawk_ii_mail@...
                                >To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                                >Subject: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a tranny
                                >issue?
                                >Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 13:18:12 -0000
                                >
                                >>I relied to this message yesterday and never saw it posted - what's
                                >>up with Yahoo Groups ????
                                >>
                                >>For an RTS 4.10 -it's about 2150rpms at 75MPH or 28.6 rpms per MPH
                                >>
                                >>so if you keep your foot out of the throttle - run about 62-65 mph
                                >>(1770-1860 rpms) which is about the top of the 6V92 efficency curve
                                >>
                                >>but MORE IMPORTANTLY - ANYTHING over 60 mph - the drag just goes to
                                >>hell - you will pay exponentially for every MPH over 60 mph
                                >>
                                >>With my X-rts 35' DDEC-II California 277HP 4.10 without a toad - I
                                >>could get almost 10MPG driving that way
                                >>
                                >>If my math is correct the max speed for each gear at 2150 rpms -
                                >>(what your DDEC and most mechanical goveners are set at)
                                >>FOR A 4.10 is about:
                                >>
                                >>3rd = 75MPH
                                >>2nd = 55MPH
                                >>1st = 35MPH
                                >>
                                >>so
                                >>
                                >>My Downshifting Criteria was
                                >>
                                >>A- IF I could no longer accelerate with more throttle
                                >>  (the mphs are dropping).
                                >>
                                >>B- AND the speed has dropped of so that the RTS was
                                >>  under about 1200 to 1400 rpms which would be for a 4.10
                                >>  47MPH in 3rd gear
                                >>  30MPH in 2nd gear
                                >>THEN MANUALLY DOWN SHIFT
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>For mountain driving - the other simple rule for me was
                                >>NEVER NEVER go down a hill faster than you went up it !!!!!!!
                                >>(don't ask me how I know this - it was scary as hell)
                                >>
                                >>Pete
                                >>
                                >>P.S. - If you can get your RTS past 70MPH on a flat roads - YOUR
                                >>TURBO IS WORKING
                                >>
                                >>Simple DYNO TEST ---
                                >>
                                >>(My X-RTS Benchmark)
                                >>0-60 MPH in 41.7 seconds
                                >>0-50 MPH in 28.5
                                >>0-40 MPH in 19.7
                                >>0-30 MPH in 13.3
                                >>Then you have a VERY good engine
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>You don't really need a tach - BUT if you do I sell a full set of
                                >>Monaco Gauges with senders for $229 --> see
                                >>http://www.busnut.com/classifieds/index.php?a=2&b=707
                                >>
                                >>and
                                >>
                                >>http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2135217490037964197TjXmdx
                                >>(My X-RTS with the set installed - only have 2 black faced sets
                                >left)
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>--- In RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Finch <kevindapilot@...>
                                >>wrote:
                                >>>
                                >>> Thanks for the good info! I can I tell if Turbo boost is on or
                                >off?
                                >>If it is off
                                >>> that may help a bit with the fuel milage as well as with climbing
                                >>the hills! I
                                >>> dont have a tach so I have no idea what RPM's i'm running at. The
                                >>bus has a the
                                >>> original dash, and I was thinking about changing it to something I
                                >>can put more
                                >>> gagues in. A tach would be on of the first additions for sure! The
                                >>speed ometer
                                >>> is off about 5 mph, my guess is because of the taller gears. could
                                >>that cause
                                >>> the trans to shift at the wrong times?
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>> ________________________________
                                >>> From: "carltwillbur@..." <carltwillbur@...>
                                >>> To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                                >>> Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 1:25:45 PM
                                >>> Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
                                >>tranny issue?
                                >>>
                                >>> Like others have said, slow accel is NORMAL...  But if you can
                                >>compare your
                                >>> RTS with another RTS, then you can determine if you have power
                                >>issues.  My
                                >>> parts bus could run circles around my keeper bus.  Both had the
                                >>same rear
                                >>> end ratio.  I mean no contest.  Stop to top speed was 60 seconds
                                >in
                                >>one and
                                >>> about half that in the other.  Several things could contribute to
                                >>that
                                >>> difference, all of which need to be addressed (meaning if turbo
                                >>boost is off,
                                >>> fix
                                >>>
                                >>> that - or if air filter is dirty, change it etc...)
                                >>>
                                >>> Pulling a vehicle I lose 15% fuel economy.
                                >>>
                                >>> Tip on downshifting up a hill.  Determine the speed at which it
                                >>normally
                                >>> shifts into high (say 45 mph), then manually shift into 2nd at 45
                                >>when going
                                >>> up hill.  DO NOT wait until you're at say 30 before downshifting.
                                >>>
                                >>> If the hill is steep enough, determine at what speed you shift
                                >into
                                >>second
                                >>> while accelerating on the flat (say 20) and downshift into 1st at
                                >>that speed.
                                >>>
                                >>> Note: typical upshift is 1st into 2nd, then lockup in 2nd, then
                                >3rd
                                >>while
                                >>> locked up.  Trans will lockup in 1st if you manually keep it in
                                >>1st, making
                                >>> it seem like it shifts into 2nd, but only 1st locked up.
                                >>>
                                >>> And yes, you will be crawling up steep hills out west, especially
                                >>with
                                >>> 4.10's.
                                >>>
                                >>> The most common concern/complaint out west is overheating while
                                >>pulling
                                >>> those long steep hills.  Be prepared to go slow and pull over to
                                >>let the beast
                                >>> cool down.
                                >>>
                                >>> THe DDEC will show overheating light around 204 degrees and engine
                                >>shut
                                >>> down around 219.  You cannot control that and need to cool it down
                                >>at the 204
                                >>> mark.  The computer will back off power quickly and will quickly
                                >>hit the 219
                                >>> mark in those conditions.
                                >>>
                                >>> Check with others about trans overheating.  Adding a trans heat
                                >>gauge is a
                                >>> wise investment but I don't know the normal operating range for
                                >the
                                >>V731.
                                >>>
                                >>> Carl</HTML>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>> ------------------------------------
                                >>>
                                >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>     
                                >>>
                                >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >>>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >------------------------------------
                                >
                                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • Kevin Finch
                                Wulf! Tire pressure is good. not pulling anything. air filter seems to be in good shape, and no leaks in the turbo that I can see. Just a bit of smoke on start
                                Message 15 of 20 , Dec 4, 2010
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                                  Wulf!
                                  Tire pressure is good. not pulling anything. air filter seems to be in good
                                  shape, and no leaks in the turbo that I can see. Just a bit of smoke on start up
                                  but clears very fast. Shes a little cold natured to start. temps here in La,
                                  about 75 degrees. It will start then run die out. I crank it maybe two more
                                  times and she starts running on the rough side  for a min or two, then smooths
                                  out and idles fine.




                                  ________________________________
                                  From: "wayward@..." <wayward@...>
                                  To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sat, December 4, 2010 1:20:14 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a tranny issue?

                                  That's not good enough. How is your air cleaner? What are you pulling
                                  with your bus? Is you turbo working ok? No leaks in the exhaust going
                                  to the turbo? Too much fuel and not enough air. Tire pressure? It
                                  will depend on a lot of things. Where you are driving, how you are
                                  driving and what you are pulling with your bus, but you should get at
                                  least 6.5 mpg. Wulf

                                  ---- Original Message ----
                                  From: kevindapilot@...
                                  To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
                                  tranny issue?
                                  Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 08:49:18 -0800 (PST)

                                  >I have 4:10 gears and currently getting 5 MPG!
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >________________________________
                                  >From: "morrow916@..." <Morrow916@...>
                                  >To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                                  >Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 3:47:52 PM
                                  >Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
                                  >tranny issue?
                                  >
                                  >Hello all had a rough year just got my computer back  6 million
                                  >e-mail to catch
                                  >up on.  just wondering if you have 4.56 rear end what is the fuel
                                  >mileage
                                  >____________________________________________________________
                                  >Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
                                  >If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
                                  >http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4cf965d9b8da44cd748st05duc
                                  >
                                  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >     
                                  >
                                  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >




                                  ------------------------------------

                                  Yahoo! Groups Links






                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • wayward@bigplanet.com
                                  Nothing there that I can see. Smoking a little at start-up is okay. If you got a lot of hills 5 mpg is not too bad. Driving with the cruise control (if you
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Dec 5, 2010
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                                    Nothing there that I can see. Smoking a little at start-up is okay.
                                    If you got a lot of hills 5 mpg is not too bad. Driving with the
                                    cruise control (if you have one) does help. Maybe your up-shift point
                                    cold be late and you stay 2nd too much. Mine shift up at about 50
                                    mph. Mine does a lot of up-and-down shifting if I don't keep it over
                                    50 mph. I don't remember too well, but I think there are rods in the
                                    valve-body to adjust the shift points. I know we adjusted the
                                    valve-body for the 350 hp from the 318 hp 8V71. Wulf

                                    ---- Original Message ----
                                    From: kevindapilot@...
                                    To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
                                    tranny issue?
                                    Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 11:59:53 -0800 (PST)

                                    >Wulf!
                                    >Tire pressure is good. not pulling anything. air filter seems to be
                                    >in good
                                    >shape, and no leaks in the turbo that I can see. Just a bit of smoke
                                    >on start up
                                    >but clears very fast. Shes a little cold natured to start. temps here
                                    >in La,
                                    >about 75 degrees. It will start then run die out. I crank it maybe
                                    >two more
                                    >times and she starts running on the rough side  for a min or two,
                                    >then smooths
                                    >out and idles fine.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >________________________________
                                    >From: "wayward@..." <wayward@...>
                                    >To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                                    >Sent: Sat, December 4, 2010 1:20:14 PM
                                    >Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
                                    >tranny issue?
                                    >
                                    >That's not good enough. How is your air cleaner? What are you pulling
                                    >with your bus? Is you turbo working ok? No leaks in the exhaust going
                                    >to the turbo? Too much fuel and not enough air. Tire pressure? It
                                    >will depend on a lot of things. Where you are driving, how you are
                                    >driving and what you are pulling with your bus, but you should get at
                                    >least 6.5 mpg. Wulf
                                    >
                                    >---- Original Message ----
                                    >From: kevindapilot@...
                                    >To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                                    >Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
                                    >tranny issue?
                                    >Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 08:49:18 -0800 (PST)
                                    >
                                    >>I have 4:10 gears and currently getting 5 MPG!
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>________________________________
                                    >>From: "morrow916@..." <Morrow916@...>
                                    >>To: RTS-bus-nuts@yahoogroups.com
                                    >>Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 3:47:52 PM
                                    >>Subject: Re: [RTS-bus-nuts] Re: 1988 RTS, Thinking I may have a
                                    >>tranny issue?
                                    >>
                                    >>Hello all had a rough year just got my computer back  6 million
                                    >>e-mail to catch
                                    >>up on.  just wondering if you have 4.56 rear end what is the fuel
                                    >>mileage
                                    >>____________________________________________________________
                                    >>Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
                                    >>If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
                                    >>http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4cf965d9b8da44cd748st05duc
                                    >>
                                    >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>------------------------------------
                                    >>
                                    >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>     
                                    >>
                                    >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
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