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[RTB Discussion Group] Re: Are you publishing false testimony in an attempt to damage someone's reputation?

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  • vr_junkie2
    ... The many revelations that were made to the group show that VR-Stalkie has been guilty of bearing false witness and slander and finding excuses to smear
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 8, 2002
      --- In RTB_Discussion_Group@y..., "kurt_streutker"
      <kurt_streutker@y...> wrote:

      >>>
      The many revelations that were made to the group show that VR-Stalkie
      has been guilty of bearing false witness and slander and finding
      excuses to smear that have nothing to do with OEC v YEC, which is why
      he was booted off.
      >>>

      Bearing false witness? Slander?

      Care to prove those accusations???

      Kurt I did not bring these issues back up - you did! You are making
      them relevant now - you can not accuse me of things without my right
      to refute the charges.

      Let's review...

      You admitted posting the Million Dollar fund raising ad - that is
      not false witness. Nor is it slander. If you consider/acknowledge
      such an ad as slanderous - you cannot blame me. I am not responsible
      for your ad Kurt - YOU ARE!

      And you came FAR short of proving you were not multiple people on
      this list or at best all writing all your posts together (assuming
      all or any of them were actually other people). I provided verifiable
      facts and information that others could verify themselves - and I
      received multiple supportive private e-mails - from both camps. If
      you want to get into an IP debate and the details of high speed
      account providers, I will be more than happy to get into that as far
      as you want to go! The fact remains - until we know who those people
      are, and exactly who is moderating this list (moderators are not
      usually anonymous) - you will NEVER rid yourself of the cloud you
      yourself have created and perpetuated.


      -VR
    • nutty@case.total
      Hi Jerikane, Welcome to the group. I must say that you seem to have grasped the Kurt type very well. I must also warn that you are about to get some of the
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 15, 2002
        Hi Jerikane,

        Welcome to the group. I must say that you seem to have grasped the Kurt type very well. I must also warn that you are about to get some of the "hand waving, name calling, rhetoric" that you say you do not like, so duck Kurt will be attacking you soon.

        Please could you introduce yourself to us, who you are, where you come from, Church allegiance, etc... It is purely from a point of view of I am curious and like to "picture" the person I am communicating with. You will find me in one of the earlier posts.

        God Bless
        Peter Carter

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: jerikane2938423
        To: RTB_Discussion_Group@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 1:31 AM
        Subject: [RTB Discussion Group] Re: Are you publishing false testimony in an attempt to damage someone's reputation?


        --- In RTB_Discussion_Group@y..., "kurt_streutker"
        <kurt_streutker@y...> wrote:
        > This emotional response by Holzmann is also typical. Fact remains,
        > he said what he said! This not only includes grossly misinformed
        > views on YEC (e.g. hardlay having read any AiG material and
        > uncritically accepting the words of theistic evolutionist Morton
        and
        > Christadephian heretic Hayward) and the pro-Romanist comments on
        both
        > Protestant and Catholic books.

        Emotional response indeed! Look who is talking! Name-calling no less.


        >
        > But don't let it be said that we don't acknowledge improvement when
        > true. I wholeheartedly commend Holzmann for including those
        > excellent Sola Fide books and rebuttals of those Popish books, as
        > well as the first-rate AiG books like Refuting Evolution (despite
        > being trashed by that supposedly moderate OEC Kyle Witten on
        Amazon),
        > and that book refuting Ross by Bebber and Taylor (whose actual
        > *arguments* remain mostly unanswered).

        "Refuting Evolution" doesn't even stand next to original books like
        those by Denton, Behe & Dembski. "RE" is nothing but already
        published material infused with YE beliefs. And Bebber/Taylor belongs
        on the psuedoscience rack.

        >claiming that YECs deny plate tectonics

        They did until relatively recently, and many still do.

        > (ignoring Dr Baumgardner's catastrophic plate tectonics theory
        > endorsed by AiG),

        Catastrophic ptt violates physics and common sense left and right, so
        he rightly ingonred it. Does anyone address flat earth arguments? No.

        attacking the moon dust argument (which
        > creationists themselves refuted long ago),

        Really? Could have fooled me, reading through their literature and
        the vague, padded, semi-hidden refutation on the AIG site.


        > Frankly, responsible Christian book distributors (who don't have an
        > old-earth axe to grind) could exercise considerable quality control
        > on books.

        Yes, I wish they would stop selling any and all books that promote
        psuedoscience (young-earthism).


        Yep, Kurt, I can be in your face too, but without being malicious.
        Funny thing is, I have never read an OEC book that was emotional, or
        unscholarly, or full of name-calling. Why is it that this is so
        common in YEC books? (I suppose you will deny this) The spend so much
        time attacking other Christians, it is no wonder natuarlists and the
        public largely ignores what good things they say about the problems
        with evolution.









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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • kurt_streutker
        So calling a compromise of truth is name calling. Exposing OE heresy is not PC. If the teaching is wrong, it must be exposed and the teachers of the heresy
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 16, 2002
          So calling a compromise of truth is name calling.
          Exposing OE heresy is not PC.

          If the teaching is wrong, it must be exposed and the teachers of the
          heresy must be marked out! Romans 16 make that perfectly clear.

          So PC, Paul (Elijah, John the Baptist, etc.) was out of line. Should
          he have been more tollerant?



          --- In RTB_Discussion_Group@y..., "nutty@c..." <pcarter@b...> wrote:
          > Hi Jerikane,
          >
          > Welcome to the group. I must say that you seem to have grasped the
          Kurt type very well. I must also warn that you are about to get some
          of the "hand waving, name calling, rhetoric" that you say you do not
          like, so duck Kurt will be attacking you soon.
          >
          > Please could you introduce yourself to us, who you are, where you
          come from, Church allegiance, etc... It is purely from a point of
          view of I am curious and like to "picture" the person I am
          communicating with. You will find me in one of the earlier posts.
          (Ask Virtual Reality to do the same!!)
          >
          > God Bless
          > Peter Carter
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: jerikane2938423
          > To: RTB_Discussion_Group@y...
          > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 1:31 AM
          > Subject: [RTB Discussion Group] Re: Are you publishing false
          testimony in an attempt to damage someone's reputation?
          >
          >
          > --- In RTB_Discussion_Group@y..., "kurt_streutker"
          > <kurt_streutker@y...> wrote:
          > > This emotional response by Holzmann is also typical. Fact
          remains,
          > > he said what he said! This not only includes grossly
          misinformed
          > > views on YEC (e.g. hardlay having read any AiG material and
          > > uncritically accepting the words of theistic evolutionist
          Morton
          > and
          > > Christadephian heretic Hayward) and the pro-Romanist comments
          on
          > both
          > > Protestant and Catholic books.
          >
          > Emotional response indeed! Look who is talking! Name-calling no
          less.
          >
          >
          > >
          > > But don't let it be said that we don't acknowledge improvement
          when
          > > true. I wholeheartedly commend Holzmann for including those
          > > excellent Sola Fide books and rebuttals of those Popish books,
          as
          > > well as the first-rate AiG books like Refuting Evolution
          (despite
          > > being trashed by that supposedly moderate OEC Kyle Witten on
          > Amazon),
          > > and that book refuting Ross by Bebber and Taylor (whose actual
          > > *arguments* remain mostly unanswered).
          >
          > "Refuting Evolution" doesn't even stand next to original books
          like
          > those by Denton, Behe & Dembski. "RE" is nothing but already
          > published material infused with YE beliefs. And Bebber/Taylor
          belongs
          > on the psuedoscience rack.
          >
          > >claiming that YECs deny plate tectonics
          >
          > They did until relatively recently, and many still do.
          >
          > > (ignoring Dr Baumgardner's catastrophic plate tectonics theory
          > > endorsed by AiG),
          >
          > Catastrophic ptt violates physics and common sense left and
          right, so
          > he rightly ingonred it. Does anyone address flat earth arguments?
          No.
          >
          > attacking the moon dust argument (which
          > > creationists themselves refuted long ago),
          >
          > Really? Could have fooled me, reading through their literature
          and
          > the vague, padded, semi-hidden refutation on the AIG site.
          >
          >
          > > Frankly, responsible Christian book distributors (who don't
          have an
          > > old-earth axe to grind) could exercise considerable quality
          control
          > > on books.
          >
          > Yes, I wish they would stop selling any and all books that
          promote
          > psuedoscience (young-earthism).
          >
          >
          > Yep, Kurt, I can be in your face too, but without being
          malicious.
          > Funny thing is, I have never read an OEC book that was emotional,
          or
          > unscholarly, or full of name-calling. Why is it that this is so
          > common in YEC books? (I suppose you will deny this) The spend so
          much
          > time attacking other Christians, it is no wonder natuarlists and
          the
          > public largely ignores what good things they say about the
          problems
          > with evolution.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >
          > Click here to find your contact lenses!
          >
          > Question the Assumptions of Naturalism which are foundational
          > to OEC at http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • nutty@case.total
          May I encourage you: In your concern for accurate interpretations of Genesis 1-11: please be careful not to ignore the rest of Scripture, like Leviticus 19:16
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 16, 2002
            May I encourage you: In your concern for accurate interpretations
            of Genesis 1-11: please be careful not to ignore the rest of
            Scripture, like Leviticus 19:16 (which says, "Do not go about
            spreading slander among your people") or Psalm 15:3 (which describes the man
            who is permitted to dwell in God's sanctuary: he "has no slander on his
            tongue,...does his neighbor no wrong and casts no slur on his
            fellowman"). Of course there are many other passages that speak in
            similar terms: Matthew 15:19 (which mentions false testimony and
            slander), or 2 Corinthians 12:20....I'm sure you understand what
            I'm > talking about.]

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: kurt_streutker
            To: RTB_Discussion_Group@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 9:54 PM
            Subject: [RTB Discussion Group] Re: Are you publishing false testimony in an attempt to damage someone's reputation?


            So calling a compromise of truth is name calling.
            Exposing OE heresy is not PC.

            If the teaching is wrong, it must be exposed and the teachers of the
            heresy must be marked out! Romans 16 make that perfectly clear.

            So PC, Paul (Elijah, John the Baptist, etc.) was out of line. Should
            he have been more tollerant?



            --- In RTB_Discussion_Group@y..., "nutty@c..." <pcarter@b...> wrote:
            > Hi Jerikane,
            >
            > Welcome to the group. I must say that you seem to have grasped the
            Kurt type very well. I must also warn that you are about to get some
            of the "hand waving, name calling, rhetoric" that you say you do not
            like, so duck Kurt will be attacking you soon.
            >
            > Please could you introduce yourself to us, who you are, where you
            come from, Church allegiance, etc... It is purely from a point of
            view of I am curious and like to "picture" the person I am
            communicating with. You will find me in one of the earlier posts.
            (Ask Virtual Reality to do the same!!)
            >
            > God Bless
            > Peter Carter
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: jerikane2938423
            > To: RTB_Discussion_Group@y...
            > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 1:31 AM
            > Subject: [RTB Discussion Group] Re: Are you publishing false
            testimony in an attempt to damage someone's reputation?
            >
            >
            > --- In RTB_Discussion_Group@y..., "kurt_streutker"
            > <kurt_streutker@y...> wrote:
            > > This emotional response by Holzmann is also typical. Fact
            remains,
            > > he said what he said! This not only includes grossly
            misinformed
            > > views on YEC (e.g. hardlay having read any AiG material and
            > > uncritically accepting the words of theistic evolutionist
            Morton
            > and
            > > Christadephian heretic Hayward) and the pro-Romanist comments
            on
            > both
            > > Protestant and Catholic books.
            >
            > Emotional response indeed! Look who is talking! Name-calling no
            less.
            >
            >
            > >
            > > But don't let it be said that we don't acknowledge improvement
            when
            > > true. I wholeheartedly commend Holzmann for including those
            > > excellent Sola Fide books and rebuttals of those Popish books,
            as
            > > well as the first-rate AiG books like Refuting Evolution
            (despite
            > > being trashed by that supposedly moderate OEC Kyle Witten on
            > Amazon),
            > > and that book refuting Ross by Bebber and Taylor (whose actual
            > > *arguments* remain mostly unanswered).
            >
            > "Refuting Evolution" doesn't even stand next to original books
            like
            > those by Denton, Behe & Dembski. "RE" is nothing but already
            > published material infused with YE beliefs. And Bebber/Taylor
            belongs
            > on the psuedoscience rack.
            >
            > >claiming that YECs deny plate tectonics
            >
            > They did until relatively recently, and many still do.
            >
            > > (ignoring Dr Baumgardner's catastrophic plate tectonics theory
            > > endorsed by AiG),
            >
            > Catastrophic ptt violates physics and common sense left and
            right, so
            > he rightly ingonred it. Does anyone address flat earth arguments?
            No.
            >
            > attacking the moon dust argument (which
            > > creationists themselves refuted long ago),
            >
            > Really? Could have fooled me, reading through their literature
            and
            > the vague, padded, semi-hidden refutation on the AIG site.
            >
            >
            > > Frankly, responsible Christian book distributors (who don't
            have an
            > > old-earth axe to grind) could exercise considerable quality
            control
            > > on books.
            >
            > Yes, I wish they would stop selling any and all books that
            promote
            > psuedoscience (young-earthism).
            >
            >
            > Yep, Kurt, I can be in your face too, but without being
            malicious.
            > Funny thing is, I have never read an OEC book that was emotional,
            or
            > unscholarly, or full of name-calling. Why is it that this is so
            > common in YEC books? (I suppose you will deny this) The spend so
            much
            > time attacking other Christians, it is no wonder natuarlists and
            the
            > public largely ignores what good things they say about the
            problems
            > with evolution.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >
            > Click here to find your contact lenses!
            >
            > Question the Assumptions of Naturalism which are foundational
            > to OEC at http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            ADVERTISEMENT



            Question the Assumptions of Naturalism which are foundational
            to OEC at http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp



            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



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