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Re: [RTB Discussion Group] Re: Are you publishing false testimony in an attempt to damage someone's reputation?

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  • nutty@case.total
    Kurt, As usual you are avoiding the problem which is your attitude... NOT... anyone else s. Your tactics are in question as is your integrity. The way you
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 8 3:50 AM
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      Kurt,

      As usual you are avoiding the problem which is your attitude... NOT... anyone else's. Your tactics are in question as is your integrity. The way you attack fellow Christians is what the post referred to.

      God Bless
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: kurt_streutker
      To: RTB_Discussion_Group@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 4:38 AM
      Subject: [RTB Discussion Group] Re: Are you publishing false testimony in an attempt to damage someone's reputation?


      PC: "I have done a 'cut 'n paste' once again because it seems that
      the relevant portion was ignored..."

      More likely, it was a passage more of a warning to the anti-YECs
      around here.

      PC: "Kurt, I actually believe that Gromit behaved in a *far* more
      Christian way than you."

      Oh right, attacking the inerrancy of Scripture was REALLY Christ-like
      wasn't it, never ming John 10:35. And I wouldn't even make vile
      comments about ANYONE's Mom that this perverted heretic made about
      Christ's Mom.

      PC: "The many revelations that were made to the group show that as
      well as you ignoring the well placed warning I have highlighted."

      The many revelations that were made to the group show that VR-Stalkie
      has been guilty of bearing false witness and slander and finding
      excuses to smear that have nothing to do with OEC v YEC, which is why
      he was booted off. And PC shows that he is only too willing to
      believe this nonsense, as well as the nonsensical idea that the
      virginal-conception-denying Gromit was a genuine Christian.



      --- In RTB_Discussion_Group@y..., "nutty@c..." <pcarter@b...> wrote:
      > Hi,
      >
      > I have done a 'cut 'n paste' once again because it seems that the
      relevant portion was ignored...
      >
      > Kurt, I actually believe that Gromit behaved in a *far* more
      Christian way than you. The many revelations that were made to the
      group show that as well as you ignoring the well placed warning I
      have highlighted.
      >
      > May I encourage you: In your concern for accurate interpretations
      > of Genesis 1-11: please be careful not to ignore the rest of
      > Scripture, like Leviticus 19:16 (which says, "Do not go about
      spreading
      > slander among your people") or Psalm 15:3 (which describes the man
      who is permitted to dwell in God's sanctuary: he "has no slander on
      his
      > tongue,...does his neighbor no wrong and casts no slur on his
      > fellowman"). Of course there are many other passages that speak in
      > similar terms: Matthew 15:19 (which mentions false testimony and
      > slander), or 2 Corinthians 12:20....I'm sure you understand what
      > I'm > talking about.]
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: kurt_streutker
      > To: RTB_Discussion_Group@y...
      > Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 11:04 PM
      > Subject: [RTB Discussion Group] Re: Are you publishing false
      testimony in an attempt to damage someone's reputation?
      >
      >
      > This emotional response by Holzmann is also typical. Fact
      remains,
      > he said what he said! This not only includes grossly misinformed
      > views on YEC (e.g. hardlay having read any AiG material and
      > uncritically accepting the words of theistic evolutionist Morton
      and
      > Christadephian heretic Hayward) and the pro-Romanist comments on
      both
      > Protestant and Catholic books.
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • vr_junkie2
      ... The many revelations that were made to the group show that VR-Stalkie has been guilty of bearing false witness and slander and finding excuses to smear
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 8 11:07 AM
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        --- In RTB_Discussion_Group@y..., "kurt_streutker"
        <kurt_streutker@y...> wrote:

        >>>
        The many revelations that were made to the group show that VR-Stalkie
        has been guilty of bearing false witness and slander and finding
        excuses to smear that have nothing to do with OEC v YEC, which is why
        he was booted off.
        >>>

        Bearing false witness? Slander?

        Care to prove those accusations???

        Kurt I did not bring these issues back up - you did! You are making
        them relevant now - you can not accuse me of things without my right
        to refute the charges.

        Let's review...

        You admitted posting the Million Dollar fund raising ad - that is
        not false witness. Nor is it slander. If you consider/acknowledge
        such an ad as slanderous - you cannot blame me. I am not responsible
        for your ad Kurt - YOU ARE!

        And you came FAR short of proving you were not multiple people on
        this list or at best all writing all your posts together (assuming
        all or any of them were actually other people). I provided verifiable
        facts and information that others could verify themselves - and I
        received multiple supportive private e-mails - from both camps. If
        you want to get into an IP debate and the details of high speed
        account providers, I will be more than happy to get into that as far
        as you want to go! The fact remains - until we know who those people
        are, and exactly who is moderating this list (moderators are not
        usually anonymous) - you will NEVER rid yourself of the cloud you
        yourself have created and perpetuated.


        -VR
      • nutty@case.total
        Hi Jerikane, Welcome to the group. I must say that you seem to have grasped the Kurt type very well. I must also warn that you are about to get some of the
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 15 11:25 PM
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          Hi Jerikane,

          Welcome to the group. I must say that you seem to have grasped the Kurt type very well. I must also warn that you are about to get some of the "hand waving, name calling, rhetoric" that you say you do not like, so duck Kurt will be attacking you soon.

          Please could you introduce yourself to us, who you are, where you come from, Church allegiance, etc... It is purely from a point of view of I am curious and like to "picture" the person I am communicating with. You will find me in one of the earlier posts.

          God Bless
          Peter Carter

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: jerikane2938423
          To: RTB_Discussion_Group@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 1:31 AM
          Subject: [RTB Discussion Group] Re: Are you publishing false testimony in an attempt to damage someone's reputation?


          --- In RTB_Discussion_Group@y..., "kurt_streutker"
          <kurt_streutker@y...> wrote:
          > This emotional response by Holzmann is also typical. Fact remains,
          > he said what he said! This not only includes grossly misinformed
          > views on YEC (e.g. hardlay having read any AiG material and
          > uncritically accepting the words of theistic evolutionist Morton
          and
          > Christadephian heretic Hayward) and the pro-Romanist comments on
          both
          > Protestant and Catholic books.

          Emotional response indeed! Look who is talking! Name-calling no less.


          >
          > But don't let it be said that we don't acknowledge improvement when
          > true. I wholeheartedly commend Holzmann for including those
          > excellent Sola Fide books and rebuttals of those Popish books, as
          > well as the first-rate AiG books like Refuting Evolution (despite
          > being trashed by that supposedly moderate OEC Kyle Witten on
          Amazon),
          > and that book refuting Ross by Bebber and Taylor (whose actual
          > *arguments* remain mostly unanswered).

          "Refuting Evolution" doesn't even stand next to original books like
          those by Denton, Behe & Dembski. "RE" is nothing but already
          published material infused with YE beliefs. And Bebber/Taylor belongs
          on the psuedoscience rack.

          >claiming that YECs deny plate tectonics

          They did until relatively recently, and many still do.

          > (ignoring Dr Baumgardner's catastrophic plate tectonics theory
          > endorsed by AiG),

          Catastrophic ptt violates physics and common sense left and right, so
          he rightly ingonred it. Does anyone address flat earth arguments? No.

          attacking the moon dust argument (which
          > creationists themselves refuted long ago),

          Really? Could have fooled me, reading through their literature and
          the vague, padded, semi-hidden refutation on the AIG site.


          > Frankly, responsible Christian book distributors (who don't have an
          > old-earth axe to grind) could exercise considerable quality control
          > on books.

          Yes, I wish they would stop selling any and all books that promote
          psuedoscience (young-earthism).


          Yep, Kurt, I can be in your face too, but without being malicious.
          Funny thing is, I have never read an OEC book that was emotional, or
          unscholarly, or full of name-calling. Why is it that this is so
          common in YEC books? (I suppose you will deny this) The spend so much
          time attacking other Christians, it is no wonder natuarlists and the
          public largely ignores what good things they say about the problems
          with evolution.









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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • kurt_streutker
          So calling a compromise of truth is name calling. Exposing OE heresy is not PC. If the teaching is wrong, it must be exposed and the teachers of the heresy
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 16 12:54 PM
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            So calling a compromise of truth is name calling.
            Exposing OE heresy is not PC.

            If the teaching is wrong, it must be exposed and the teachers of the
            heresy must be marked out! Romans 16 make that perfectly clear.

            So PC, Paul (Elijah, John the Baptist, etc.) was out of line. Should
            he have been more tollerant?



            --- In RTB_Discussion_Group@y..., "nutty@c..." <pcarter@b...> wrote:
            > Hi Jerikane,
            >
            > Welcome to the group. I must say that you seem to have grasped the
            Kurt type very well. I must also warn that you are about to get some
            of the "hand waving, name calling, rhetoric" that you say you do not
            like, so duck Kurt will be attacking you soon.
            >
            > Please could you introduce yourself to us, who you are, where you
            come from, Church allegiance, etc... It is purely from a point of
            view of I am curious and like to "picture" the person I am
            communicating with. You will find me in one of the earlier posts.
            (Ask Virtual Reality to do the same!!)
            >
            > God Bless
            > Peter Carter
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: jerikane2938423
            > To: RTB_Discussion_Group@y...
            > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 1:31 AM
            > Subject: [RTB Discussion Group] Re: Are you publishing false
            testimony in an attempt to damage someone's reputation?
            >
            >
            > --- In RTB_Discussion_Group@y..., "kurt_streutker"
            > <kurt_streutker@y...> wrote:
            > > This emotional response by Holzmann is also typical. Fact
            remains,
            > > he said what he said! This not only includes grossly
            misinformed
            > > views on YEC (e.g. hardlay having read any AiG material and
            > > uncritically accepting the words of theistic evolutionist
            Morton
            > and
            > > Christadephian heretic Hayward) and the pro-Romanist comments
            on
            > both
            > > Protestant and Catholic books.
            >
            > Emotional response indeed! Look who is talking! Name-calling no
            less.
            >
            >
            > >
            > > But don't let it be said that we don't acknowledge improvement
            when
            > > true. I wholeheartedly commend Holzmann for including those
            > > excellent Sola Fide books and rebuttals of those Popish books,
            as
            > > well as the first-rate AiG books like Refuting Evolution
            (despite
            > > being trashed by that supposedly moderate OEC Kyle Witten on
            > Amazon),
            > > and that book refuting Ross by Bebber and Taylor (whose actual
            > > *arguments* remain mostly unanswered).
            >
            > "Refuting Evolution" doesn't even stand next to original books
            like
            > those by Denton, Behe & Dembski. "RE" is nothing but already
            > published material infused with YE beliefs. And Bebber/Taylor
            belongs
            > on the psuedoscience rack.
            >
            > >claiming that YECs deny plate tectonics
            >
            > They did until relatively recently, and many still do.
            >
            > > (ignoring Dr Baumgardner's catastrophic plate tectonics theory
            > > endorsed by AiG),
            >
            > Catastrophic ptt violates physics and common sense left and
            right, so
            > he rightly ingonred it. Does anyone address flat earth arguments?
            No.
            >
            > attacking the moon dust argument (which
            > > creationists themselves refuted long ago),
            >
            > Really? Could have fooled me, reading through their literature
            and
            > the vague, padded, semi-hidden refutation on the AIG site.
            >
            >
            > > Frankly, responsible Christian book distributors (who don't
            have an
            > > old-earth axe to grind) could exercise considerable quality
            control
            > > on books.
            >
            > Yes, I wish they would stop selling any and all books that
            promote
            > psuedoscience (young-earthism).
            >
            >
            > Yep, Kurt, I can be in your face too, but without being
            malicious.
            > Funny thing is, I have never read an OEC book that was emotional,
            or
            > unscholarly, or full of name-calling. Why is it that this is so
            > common in YEC books? (I suppose you will deny this) The spend so
            much
            > time attacking other Christians, it is no wonder natuarlists and
            the
            > public largely ignores what good things they say about the
            problems
            > with evolution.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >
            > Click here to find your contact lenses!
            >
            > Question the Assumptions of Naturalism which are foundational
            > to OEC at http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • nutty@case.total
            May I encourage you: In your concern for accurate interpretations of Genesis 1-11: please be careful not to ignore the rest of Scripture, like Leviticus 19:16
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 16 11:08 PM
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              May I encourage you: In your concern for accurate interpretations
              of Genesis 1-11: please be careful not to ignore the rest of
              Scripture, like Leviticus 19:16 (which says, "Do not go about
              spreading slander among your people") or Psalm 15:3 (which describes the man
              who is permitted to dwell in God's sanctuary: he "has no slander on his
              tongue,...does his neighbor no wrong and casts no slur on his
              fellowman"). Of course there are many other passages that speak in
              similar terms: Matthew 15:19 (which mentions false testimony and
              slander), or 2 Corinthians 12:20....I'm sure you understand what
              I'm > talking about.]

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: kurt_streutker
              To: RTB_Discussion_Group@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 9:54 PM
              Subject: [RTB Discussion Group] Re: Are you publishing false testimony in an attempt to damage someone's reputation?


              So calling a compromise of truth is name calling.
              Exposing OE heresy is not PC.

              If the teaching is wrong, it must be exposed and the teachers of the
              heresy must be marked out! Romans 16 make that perfectly clear.

              So PC, Paul (Elijah, John the Baptist, etc.) was out of line. Should
              he have been more tollerant?



              --- In RTB_Discussion_Group@y..., "nutty@c..." <pcarter@b...> wrote:
              > Hi Jerikane,
              >
              > Welcome to the group. I must say that you seem to have grasped the
              Kurt type very well. I must also warn that you are about to get some
              of the "hand waving, name calling, rhetoric" that you say you do not
              like, so duck Kurt will be attacking you soon.
              >
              > Please could you introduce yourself to us, who you are, where you
              come from, Church allegiance, etc... It is purely from a point of
              view of I am curious and like to "picture" the person I am
              communicating with. You will find me in one of the earlier posts.
              (Ask Virtual Reality to do the same!!)
              >
              > God Bless
              > Peter Carter
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: jerikane2938423
              > To: RTB_Discussion_Group@y...
              > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 1:31 AM
              > Subject: [RTB Discussion Group] Re: Are you publishing false
              testimony in an attempt to damage someone's reputation?
              >
              >
              > --- In RTB_Discussion_Group@y..., "kurt_streutker"
              > <kurt_streutker@y...> wrote:
              > > This emotional response by Holzmann is also typical. Fact
              remains,
              > > he said what he said! This not only includes grossly
              misinformed
              > > views on YEC (e.g. hardlay having read any AiG material and
              > > uncritically accepting the words of theistic evolutionist
              Morton
              > and
              > > Christadephian heretic Hayward) and the pro-Romanist comments
              on
              > both
              > > Protestant and Catholic books.
              >
              > Emotional response indeed! Look who is talking! Name-calling no
              less.
              >
              >
              > >
              > > But don't let it be said that we don't acknowledge improvement
              when
              > > true. I wholeheartedly commend Holzmann for including those
              > > excellent Sola Fide books and rebuttals of those Popish books,
              as
              > > well as the first-rate AiG books like Refuting Evolution
              (despite
              > > being trashed by that supposedly moderate OEC Kyle Witten on
              > Amazon),
              > > and that book refuting Ross by Bebber and Taylor (whose actual
              > > *arguments* remain mostly unanswered).
              >
              > "Refuting Evolution" doesn't even stand next to original books
              like
              > those by Denton, Behe & Dembski. "RE" is nothing but already
              > published material infused with YE beliefs. And Bebber/Taylor
              belongs
              > on the psuedoscience rack.
              >
              > >claiming that YECs deny plate tectonics
              >
              > They did until relatively recently, and many still do.
              >
              > > (ignoring Dr Baumgardner's catastrophic plate tectonics theory
              > > endorsed by AiG),
              >
              > Catastrophic ptt violates physics and common sense left and
              right, so
              > he rightly ingonred it. Does anyone address flat earth arguments?
              No.
              >
              > attacking the moon dust argument (which
              > > creationists themselves refuted long ago),
              >
              > Really? Could have fooled me, reading through their literature
              and
              > the vague, padded, semi-hidden refutation on the AIG site.
              >
              >
              > > Frankly, responsible Christian book distributors (who don't
              have an
              > > old-earth axe to grind) could exercise considerable quality
              control
              > > on books.
              >
              > Yes, I wish they would stop selling any and all books that
              promote
              > psuedoscience (young-earthism).
              >
              >
              > Yep, Kurt, I can be in your face too, but without being
              malicious.
              > Funny thing is, I have never read an OEC book that was emotional,
              or
              > unscholarly, or full of name-calling. Why is it that this is so
              > common in YEC books? (I suppose you will deny this) The spend so
              much
              > time attacking other Christians, it is no wonder natuarlists and
              the
              > public largely ignores what good things they say about the
              problems
              > with evolution.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              >
              > Click here to find your contact lenses!
              >
              > Question the Assumptions of Naturalism which are foundational
              > to OEC at http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


              Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT



              Question the Assumptions of Naturalism which are foundational
              to OEC at http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp



              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



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