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Re: Re: Re: pubDate time zone?

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  • Gerhard Poul
    Bill Kearney wrote in message news:003601c2e17c$067ced40$2000a8c0@wkearney.com... ... some ... any, ... Maybe, but that doesn t
    Message 1 of 34 , Mar 3, 2003
      "Bill Kearney" <ml_yahoo@...> wrote in message
      news:003601c2e17c$067ced40$2000a8c0@......
      > > > What?
      > >
      > > It means that a time in and of itself cannot be predictable. But a time
      > > specified as "Sat, 07 Sep 2002 0:00:01 GMT" is exactly specified. In
      some
      > > contexts it may be even over-specified because you don't have to save a
      > > weekday to calculate which time it was. Therefore you only need to have
      > > day/month/year, hour/minute/second, and timezone to precisely specify a
      > > random point in time.
      >
      > Thus using ISO-8601 timestamps is an even better idea. That and they're
      > language neutral. And also quite explicit in expressing the timezone, if
      any,
      > that's used.

      Maybe, but that doesn't answer the initial question about why everyone is
      using GMT.

      > > > Define what you mean by "reliable".
      > > adj 1: worthy of reliance or trust; "a reliable source of information";
      >
      > That much is /obvious/. It's just not at all clear what you mean.

      If my definition of reliable is obvious, then please post a more specific
      question and I'll be happy to answer it.

      > > No, this is not clear. The generator of this RSS file is not the one who
      > > parses them and who just provides it for others to use. To make an extra
      > > step to convert it to GMT is just a source of unreliability.
      >
      > What? That's so overly simplistic a statement as to almost be a stupid
      one.
      >
      > > Note: The most reliable conversion is a conversion you don't have to
      make!
      >
      > Likewise.

      Sarcastic and hostile remarks won't help.

      > > btw: You've started to call it GMT so please stick to it and don't
      switch
      > > between 'GMT' and 'UTC' at will. thanks!
      >
      > Considering they're the same it's hardly significant. GMT is not BST
      (which can
      > shift).
      >
      > Apparently you're not aware of the many other time and timezone related
      issues
      > so arguing this point is probably pointless.

      speaking of sarcastic comments...

      Best regards,
      Gerhard Poul
    • petite_lapin_blue
      ... much... ... Good. Any interesting papers or references you would like to share? Or better yet: concrete solutions. ... Ok. Not worth discussing such
      Message 34 of 34 , Mar 9, 2003
        --- In RSS2-Support@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kearney" <ml_yahoo@i...>
        wrote:
        > > <ot>
        > > Regarding geographical location... a time zone doesn't help
        much...
        > > but combined with the host IP address... it helps.
        > > </ot>
        >
        > Now you're in an area where I'm extremely familiar.

        Good. Any interesting papers or references you would like to share?
        Or better yet: concrete solutions.

        > And you're wrong again.

        Ok. Not worth discussing such dogmatic statement. Plus, what is this
        fixation with "right and wrong"? Why getting all religious all of the
        sudden? This is just software after all.

        > Geographic data from IP address is nearly useless. We track it on
        Syndic8 and
        > it's wrong FAR more often than it's right. Mainly because the
        tools used to do
        > IP lookups reference netblock or whois information. Most of the
        time this info
        > is not "where" the feed considers itself to reside.

        That's fine. No point in running in circle trying to find the
        unconditional truth. Approximation is just swell considering that
        there is no other alternative at the moment. But as always, I'm most
        likely wrong about that also.

        > Look, I understand the point you're trying to make.

        Compassion at last.

        > But you're just plain wrong.

        No arguing about that.

        > If you want to indicate location information, the Dublin Core
        format for
        > coverage and DCMI point allow you to express it exactly.

        Perhaps. But this requires an human being somewhere taking the time
        to generate such information in the first place. I'm most likely
        utterly wrong about that, but from the outset IP addresses and
        time-zones seems in more widespread use than semantically meaningful
        Dublin Core scribbling.

        > Trying to 'fake it' with a timezone is going to be wrong way more
        than it's ever right.

        Well... waiting for Godot and the "semantic web" sounds like an
        attractive alternative of course. But there is hope: as this is "an
        area where [you are] extremely familiar". Any pointers to concrete
        alternatives much appreciated therefore. Thanks.

        > Consider what happens when you run your laptop from a different
        timezone. Or if
        > the server is running (or serving) the feed from a timezone
        different than the
        > authoring timezone. There's no way to reliably extract positioning
        information
        > here. It's not like the people that created these specs didn't
        take this into
        > account.

        This is fine. Some zealots are obsessively looking for the absolute
        truth. Others are just trying to get by with what they have today.

        Cheers,

        PA.
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