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Jut, excellent "wheat" in this commentary....Re: A timely commentary

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  • CDV
    Hola Sr. Jut, ***[CDV]You have your facts all wrong. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [Jut]Really?*** Sí, es verdad. Lo siento amigo.
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 1, 2006
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      Hola Sr. Jut,

      ***[CDV]You have your facts all wrong.
      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      [Jut]Really?***

      Sí, es verdad. Lo siento amigo.

      ***[Jut] What if I tell you that they were at the same time trying to
      secure REFORMS too.***

      Muy bien. Ése es porqué también fueron llamados los "reformadores" y
      el movimiento de la propaganda también fue llamado "movimiento de
      reforma."

      Continué tu estudio de Rizal. Mientras tanto, necesito practicar mi
      lecciones en español.

      Saludos,

      CDV


      --- In RP-Rizal@yahoogroups.com, jack <jackthejut@...> wrote:
      >
      > [CDV]
      > You have your facts all wrong.
      > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      > Really? Being ignorant of Rizal, I took Ms. Apostol's words at
      > face value because she is a careful writer and I assumed she
      > knows what she is talking about. Since you contradict my facts
      > which merely agree with hers, you presume yourself to be more
      > knowledgeable than she in this. Perhaps you think I should take
      > your word as fact instead of hers'. Maybe I should stand aside
      > and let you two battle it out. Meanwhile my money's on her, her
      > reasons and explanations unseen.
      >
      >
      > The propagandists were trying to let Madrid know of the abuses
      > of the authorities (especially the friars) in Manila. <snip> This
      > is common knowledge to even the Filipino who only relies on
      > what was "drummed into him in high school."
      > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      > It's my experience, when you phrase it like that, that you insinuate
      > that that was the ONLY thing the Propagandists were trying to do.
      > What if I tell you that they were at the same time trying to secure
      > REFORMS too. And they got some, like the Maura Law, tax
      > reforms, introduction of Civil, Penal, Criminal, and Commercial
      > Codes to replace the antiquated Laws of the Indies, and normal
      > schools. AHA! So it was not only about abuse of authorities, eh?
      > BTW, they also demanded at least ASSIMILATION. Was it not
      > possible that some impatient propagandists were leaning more on
      > a somewhat obtuse autonomy or independence attempt?
      >
      >
      > If you believe that the Propagandists were ONLY trying to let
      > Madrid know of the abuses . . . and were not trying to show
      > Madrid (or even indirectly HINT) that the Philippines was ready
      > (or at least CAPABLE OF TRYING) for independence, then
      > what do you IMAGINE Apostol meant when she wrote:"(Rizal)
      > <snip> with all those Filipino propagandists, trying to impress
      > upon the Spanish Cortes that the Filipinos were ready for
      > independence? Please explain, esp. about this "independence"
      > thing she said. Could you also put on record that you THINK
      > the propagandists never TRIED to IMPRESS, even by subtle
      > indirection that if fair demands were not met, there was a possibility
      > that the Philippines could go the way of former Spanish colonies in
      > the Americas..
      >
      >
      > I was hoping to discuss Rizal's concept of education and its
      > realation to "make men worthy"
      > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      > Don't get your hopes up as I do not wish to inflict upon this
      > forum such no-brainer subjects just to humor a buncombe
      > practitioner. Miserere nobis!
      >
      > jack
      >
    • CDV
      ***I GREW UP IN CATHOLIC SCHOOLS WHERE JOSE RIZAL was often described as a non-believer in Christian tenets and as someone who should be avoided if one wanted
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 1, 2006
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        ***I GREW UP IN CATHOLIC SCHOOLS WHERE JOSE RIZAL was often described
        as a non-believer in Christian tenets and as someone who should be
        avoided if one wanted to go to heaven after death.***

        I grew up in the Philippines not knowing that Rizal was an apostate
        Catholic and heard little if anything about the alleged retraction. I
        had the attitude typical of many if not most Filipinos. Anything that
        was "panahon pa ni Rizal" was irrelevant.

        ***I quote from the book: "Rizal also looked forward to eventual
        independence but he had little faith in political journalism,
        lobbying and strategy. For Rizal, the preparation needed for
        independence was education in its broadest sense—the formation of a
        people who would be worthy of their freedom and would protect it
        from its new tyrants."***

        This is what struck me most about Apostol's article. What is
        "education in the broadest sense?"

        CDV

        --- In RP-Rizal@yahoogroups.com, "Edgar Millan" <egadong@...> wrote:
        >
        > Rizal and People Power
        >
        >
        > By Eugenia Duran-Apostol
        > Inquirer
        >
        > Published on page A15 of the November 27, 2006 issue of the
        > Philippine Daily Inquirer
        >
        > (The following are excerpts from a lecture before the members of
        > PEN, a worldwide association of writers with 144 centers in 101
        > countries. Francisco Sionil Jose is the founder of PEN Philippines.)
        >
        >
        > I GREW UP IN CATHOLIC SCHOOLS WHERE JOSE RIZAL was often described
        > as a non-believer in Christian tenets and as someone who should be
        > avoided if one wanted to go to heaven after death.
        >
        > In Alfredo Roces and Gilda Cordero-Fernando's "Filipino Heritage"
        > encyclopedia, I found out from the Jesuit scholar John Schumacher
        > that Jose Rizal is really my kind of guy.
        >
        > He was so quarrelsome … going all the way to Germany, Paris and
        > Barcelona with all those Filipino propagandists, trying to impress
        > upon the Spanish Cortes that the Filipinos were ready for
        > independence … and that the Spanish colonizers were abusers,
        > persecutors and power-hungry.
        >
        > I quote from the book: "Rizal also looked forward to eventual
        > independence but he had little faith in political journalism,
        > lobbying and strategy. For Rizal, the preparation needed for
        > independence was education in its broadest sense—the formation of a
        > people who would be worthy of their freedom and would protect it
        > from its new tyrants."
        >
        > Rizal later broke away from the other propagandists. He wanted to
        > focus on education reform. But a firing squad ended his life at 35
        > years.
        >
        > Rizal did not see the changes in Philippine society during the
        > American occupation, especially the public school system the
        > Americans set up. He would have been quite pleased, only to be
        > disappointed later with the education system's decline that
        > accelerated during the martial law years. The exploding population
        > would exert tremendous pressure on the system itself. Overcrowded
        > schools, substandard facilities and too few really good teachers and
        > school administrators became endemic problems of post-Marcos era
        > administrations, from Cory Aquino, to Fidel Ramos, to Joseph "Erap"
        > Estrada and now to Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo.
        >
        > After my own disillusionment with the aftermath of Edsa 1986 and
        > Edsa II, we at the Foundation for Worldwide People Power revisited
        > our mandate sometime in 2002. We saw that all that we had reclaimed
        > through People Power—our democratic institutions, our freedom of
        > expression, and our dignity as Filipinos—could be easily lost again
        > if our youth had no opportunity to discover, nurture and protect
        > these freedoms "from its new tyrants."
        >
        > Making our education system relevant would directly meet this need.
        > But under present circumstances, wouldn't this be a quixotic
        > adventure at best?
        >
        > The average Grade 6 pupil can only answer half of the National
        > Achievement Test questions correctly. Only a little over 3,000
        > elementary schools out of the 29,000 that took the NAT this year
        > managed to score 75 percent or higher.
        >
        > High school students who can barely comprehend written lesson
        > materials—whether in English or Filipino—are not uncommon.
        >
        > How can you expect these young men and women to enjoy literary
        > masterpieces? How can they "discuss, debate and communicate," when
        > they have to struggle through the simple act of reading?
        >
        > In his essay simply titled "Instruction," Rizal declared that the
        > mission of education is "to elevate the country to the highest seat
        > of glory and to develop the people's mentality." Rizal further
        > argued, "Since education is the foundation of society and a
        > prerequisite for social progress, only through education could the
        > country be saved from domination."
        >
        > The FWWPP launched the Education Revolution in 2002 for two reasons.
        > First, because education is the best vehicle for social
        > transformation, we must make it ready to meet this enormous
        > challenge. Second, every Philippine Constitution says that the
        > national government is primarily responsible for equitable access to
        > quality education.
        >
        > But that responsibility is not exclusive. Those who will reap the
        > immeasurable benefits that a good education brings—and that is just
        > about everyone—must share this responsibility. This makes Education
        > Revolution a People Power movement. It calls on us to focus our
        > energies toward helping move every school community toward
        > excellence.
        >
        > After four years of research and field experience, the FWWPP now has
        > templates to help communities address their respective education
        > needs. We have started using a performance-based framework that
        > enables the school, the community and the resource holders to enter
        > into sustainable partnerships premised on realistic achievement
        > goals, such as consistently better NAT scores. Rather than asking
        > for donations, the school community organizes itself into a working
        > group that drafts a strategic plan for education quality. Such plan
        > could have, for instance, a community-based reading and math
        > tutoring program, or a workbook development and production activity.
        > With a plan like this, resource holders will know that their help is
        > being used to directly improve learning outcomes.
        >
        > Meanwhile, the educators on the FWWPP board—namely Dr. Jose Abueva,
        > Dr. Edilberto de Jesus, Dr. Maria Lim Ayuyao, Mr. Panfilo Domingo
        > and the late Dr. Doreen Fernandez—have stressed that meaningful
        > education reform cannot take place if no measures were made to
        > improve the teacher's professional capacity, values and motivation.
        >
        > The FWWPP's Mentoring the Mentors program does exactly this. It
        > combines teacher formation activities with active teaching and
        > learning strategies. Participating teachers learn to soberly assess
        > their skills. Expert resource persons suggest improvement avenues
        > and guide them on a journey of self-discovery, reinforcing in them
        > what being a teacher truly means.
        >
        > Our 2003 Mentoring the Mentors session for the Iloilo city schools
        > division has rapidly blossomed into implementations for all DepEd
        > regions.
        >
        > Likewise, the League of Corporate Foundations and the Philippine
        > Business for Education have integrated the FWWPP's Education
        > Revolution Community Participation framework into their "57-75"
        > and "No School Below 60" campaigns. The members of these two very
        > influential organizations have found the framework realistic and
        > doable.
        >
        > Rizal said "It is a useless life that is not consecrated to a great
        > ideal. It is like a stone wasted on the field, without becoming a
        > part of any edifice."
        >
        > Our motherland is the edifice, and her glory is our great ideal.
        > Education is the key to our deliverance.
        >
        > What a happy meeting of minds — Rizal and ours!
        >
        >
        >
        > ~ Eugenia Duran Apostol is the board chair of the Foundation for
        > Worldwide People Power.
        >
      • CDV
        ***We saw that all that we had reclaimed through People Power—our democratic institutions, our freedom of expression, and our dignity as Filipinos—could be
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 1, 2006
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          ***We saw that all that we had reclaimed
          through People Power—our democratic institutions, our freedom of
          expression, and our dignity as Filipinos—could be easily lost again
          if our youth had no opportunity to discover, nurture and protect
          these freedoms "from its new tyrants."***

          So the onus is on the older generation to give the youth the
          opportunity to discover, nurture and protect these freedoms 'from its
          new tyrants.' And while the older generation is doing that, they
          should at the same time be nurturing & protecting these freedoms while
          the youth are receiving this "opportunity" that they are receiving
          from their predecessors.

          But isn't the older generation for the most part clueless regarding
          these tasks?

          The solution to this "cluelessness" probably lies in what Fr.
          Shumacher termed "education in the broadest sense."

          Food for thought!

          CDV

          --- In RP-Rizal@yahoogroups.com, "Edgar Millan" <egadong@...> wrote:
          >
          > Rizal and People Power
          >
          >
          > By Eugenia Duran-Apostol
          > Inquirer
          >
          > Published on page A15 of the November 27, 2006 issue of the
          > Philippine Daily Inquirer
          >
          > (The following are excerpts from a lecture before the members of
          > PEN, a worldwide association of writers with 144 centers in 101
          > countries. Francisco Sionil Jose is the founder of PEN Philippines.)
          >
          >
          > I GREW UP IN CATHOLIC SCHOOLS WHERE JOSE RIZAL was often described
          > as a non-believer in Christian tenets and as someone who should be
          > avoided if one wanted to go to heaven after death.
          >
          > In Alfredo Roces and Gilda Cordero-Fernando's "Filipino Heritage"
          > encyclopedia, I found out from the Jesuit scholar John Schumacher
          > that Jose Rizal is really my kind of guy.
          >
          > He was so quarrelsome … going all the way to Germany, Paris and
          > Barcelona with all those Filipino propagandists, trying to impress
          > upon the Spanish Cortes that the Filipinos were ready for
          > independence … and that the Spanish colonizers were abusers,
          > persecutors and power-hungry.
          >
          > I quote from the book: "Rizal also looked forward to eventual
          > independence but he had little faith in political journalism,
          > lobbying and strategy. For Rizal, the preparation needed for
          > independence was education in its broadest sense—the formation of a
          > people who would be worthy of their freedom and would protect it
          > from its new tyrants."
          >
          > Rizal later broke away from the other propagandists. He wanted to
          > focus on education reform. But a firing squad ended his life at 35
          > years.
          >
          > Rizal did not see the changes in Philippine society during the
          > American occupation, especially the public school system the
          > Americans set up. He would have been quite pleased, only to be
          > disappointed later with the education system's decline that
          > accelerated during the martial law years. The exploding population
          > would exert tremendous pressure on the system itself. Overcrowded
          > schools, substandard facilities and too few really good teachers and
          > school administrators became endemic problems of post-Marcos era
          > administrations, from Cory Aquino, to Fidel Ramos, to Joseph "Erap"
          > Estrada and now to Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo.
          >
          > After my own disillusionment with the aftermath of Edsa 1986 and
          > Edsa II, we at the Foundation for Worldwide People Power revisited
          > our mandate sometime in 2002. We saw that all that we had reclaimed
          > through People Power—our democratic institutions, our freedom of
          > expression, and our dignity as Filipinos—could be easily lost again
          > if our youth had no opportunity to discover, nurture and protect
          > these freedoms "from its new tyrants."
          >
          > Making our education system relevant would directly meet this need.
          > But under present circumstances, wouldn't this be a quixotic
          > adventure at best?
          >
          > The average Grade 6 pupil can only answer half of the National
          > Achievement Test questions correctly. Only a little over 3,000
          > elementary schools out of the 29,000 that took the NAT this year
          > managed to score 75 percent or higher.
          >
          > High school students who can barely comprehend written lesson
          > materials—whether in English or Filipino—are not uncommon.
          >
          > How can you expect these young men and women to enjoy literary
          > masterpieces? How can they "discuss, debate and communicate," when
          > they have to struggle through the simple act of reading?
          >
          > In his essay simply titled "Instruction," Rizal declared that the
          > mission of education is "to elevate the country to the highest seat
          > of glory and to develop the people's mentality." Rizal further
          > argued, "Since education is the foundation of society and a
          > prerequisite for social progress, only through education could the
          > country be saved from domination."
          >
          > The FWWPP launched the Education Revolution in 2002 for two reasons.
          > First, because education is the best vehicle for social
          > transformation, we must make it ready to meet this enormous
          > challenge. Second, every Philippine Constitution says that the
          > national government is primarily responsible for equitable access to
          > quality education.
          >
          > But that responsibility is not exclusive. Those who will reap the
          > immeasurable benefits that a good education brings—and that is just
          > about everyone—must share this responsibility. This makes Education
          > Revolution a People Power movement. It calls on us to focus our
          > energies toward helping move every school community toward
          > excellence.
          >
          > After four years of research and field experience, the FWWPP now has
          > templates to help communities address their respective education
          > needs. We have started using a performance-based framework that
          > enables the school, the community and the resource holders to enter
          > into sustainable partnerships premised on realistic achievement
          > goals, such as consistently better NAT scores. Rather than asking
          > for donations, the school community organizes itself into a working
          > group that drafts a strategic plan for education quality. Such plan
          > could have, for instance, a community-based reading and math
          > tutoring program, or a workbook development and production activity.
          > With a plan like this, resource holders will know that their help is
          > being used to directly improve learning outcomes.
          >
          > Meanwhile, the educators on the FWWPP board—namely Dr. Jose Abueva,
          > Dr. Edilberto de Jesus, Dr. Maria Lim Ayuyao, Mr. Panfilo Domingo
          > and the late Dr. Doreen Fernandez—have stressed that meaningful
          > education reform cannot take place if no measures were made to
          > improve the teacher's professional capacity, values and motivation.
          >
          > The FWWPP's Mentoring the Mentors program does exactly this. It
          > combines teacher formation activities with active teaching and
          > learning strategies. Participating teachers learn to soberly assess
          > their skills. Expert resource persons suggest improvement avenues
          > and guide them on a journey of self-discovery, reinforcing in them
          > what being a teacher truly means.
          >
          > Our 2003 Mentoring the Mentors session for the Iloilo city schools
          > division has rapidly blossomed into implementations for all DepEd
          > regions.
          >
          > Likewise, the League of Corporate Foundations and the Philippine
          > Business for Education have integrated the FWWPP's Education
          > Revolution Community Participation framework into their "57-75"
          > and "No School Below 60" campaigns. The members of these two very
          > influential organizations have found the framework realistic and
          > doable.
          >
          > Rizal said "It is a useless life that is not consecrated to a great
          > ideal. It is like a stone wasted on the field, without becoming a
          > part of any edifice."
          >
          > Our motherland is the edifice, and her glory is our great ideal.
          > Education is the key to our deliverance.
          >
          > What a happy meeting of minds — Rizal and ours!
          >
          >
          >
          > ~ Eugenia Duran Apostol is the board chair of the Foundation for
          > Worldwide People Power.
          >
        • jack
          [Jut] What if I tell you that they were at the same time trying to secure REFORMS too. [CDV] Muy bien. Ése es porqué también fueron llamados los
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 2, 2006
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            [Jut] What if I tell you that they were at the same time trying to
            secure REFORMS too.
            [CDV] Muy bien. Ése es porqué también fueron llamados los
            "reformadores" y el movimiento de la propaganda también fue
            llamado "movimiento de reforma."
            - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            I don't know if you're being clever or if sarcasm is lost on you.

            jack
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