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"We're Waiting"

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  • Carl Svensson
    If you want to grow , grow with us! http://rlc.meetup.com/120/ Join the group; and you will double your size overnight ! What are you waiting for? Don,
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 22, 2008
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      If you want to 'grow', 'grow' with us!

      http://rlc.meetup.com/120/

      Join the group; and you will double your size 'overnight'! What are
      you waiting for?

      Don, Bob, David: Gary Treistman is waiting for you on the Meet Up
      Group, and will join up here once you make your 'move'.

      What's the holdup?

      Carl
    • Bob Cotton
      Carl, Since you ask so forcefully, let me respond with candor. I was impressed with the turnout on Tuesday. It was a sizable group of people who evidently had
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 23, 2008
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        Carl,

        Since you ask so forcefully, let me respond with candor. I was
        impressed with the turnout on Tuesday. It was a sizable group of
        people who evidently had some things in common, such as support for
        Ron Paul. However, just what else they had in common was not explored
        in much depth, considering the length of the meeting.

        Ron Paul has well-known positions on many issues. Some of us differ
        with him on a few, such as immigration and abortion, but we supported
        him anyway due to agreement on many other issues. In contrast, the
        only specific issue proposed at the meeting was term limits.
        Libertarianism is not defined by support for term limits. If we are
        not to be a group of broadly libertarian activists in various parties,
        then I will soon lose interest.

        I just heard a talk by Lawrence Reid at FEE in which he described
        joining YAF in the 1960's. This was a Republican group, I believe, but
        they handed him various books such as Hayek's "The Road to Serfdom",
        Hazlitt's "Economics in One Lesson" and others. We might use Ron
        Paul's "The Revolution: A Manifesto" to educate/uncover supporters of
        libertarian ideas. Then we would at least know what we have in common.

        I am quite willing to give your group a chance. Let's see if those who
        showed up last Tuesday can read Ron's book and come away feeling that
        they agree with most of it, and be willing to participate in a group
        that uses it as a litmus test.

        Best regards,

        Bob Cotton

        On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 12:16 AM, Carl Svensson <csvensson@...> wrote:
        > If you want to 'grow', 'grow' with us!
        >
        > http://rlc.meetup.com/120/
        >
        > Join the group; and you will double your size 'overnight'! What are
        > you waiting for?
        >
        > Don, Bob, David: Gary Treistman is waiting for you on the Meet Up
        > Group, and will join up here once you make your 'move'.
        >
        > What's the holdup?
        >
        > Carl
        >
        >
      • Carl Svensson
        ... explored in much depth, considering the length of the meeting. I appreciate candor, and I hate being pushy , but time limitations require me to be
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 23, 2008
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          --- In RLCNY-HV@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Cotton" <rmcotton@...> wrote in
          part:
          >
          > Carl,
          >
          > Since you ask so forcefully, let me respond with candor. I was
          > impressed with the turnout on Tuesday. It was a sizable group of
          > people who evidently had some things in common, such as support for
          > Ron Paul. However, just what else they had in common was not
          explored in much depth, considering the length of the meeting.

          I appreciate candor, and I hate being "pushy", but time limitations
          require me to be "forceful" -- hey, I'm 65 -- if we are to
          accomplish anything tangible in the near future.

          I do not want to mislead anyone, by the way. While the majority of
          those attending Tuesday were Rob Paul partisans, every one was not,
          and everyone will not be.

          What everyone at that meeting had in common was a desire for limited
          government, free markets, personal freedom, and transparency in
          government to name a key few.

          We are going to have to reach out beyond the members of the Ron Paul
          coalition and the Libertarian Party if we are too have positive
          results on the electoral field. (Indeed, you, and I have major
          differences with many of the elements that surrounded Ron Paul
          (read the platform of the Constitution Party for example).

          > "....the only specific issue proposed at the meeting was term
          limits".

          I focused on that issue because it has such overwhelming support of
          the American people, and in the longer term, it is a "winning issue"
          even though it is overwhelming disparaged by most 'professional
          politicians" and the "mainline" media.

          I did touch upon Project Vote Smart, and its importance in finding
          out where candidates stand on the issues. Frankly, this is another
          area which most politicians like to avoid. Don't believe me?
          Contact your Congressman or Assemblyman tomorrow and ask him does
          he support or oppose ........... 90% of the time you will be stone
          walled if it a contentious subject, and this is despite the fact
          that most of our elected officials are safely tucked away in
          "gerrymandered" districts.

          And that is why I touched upon the importance of an effective
          lobbying operation.

          If you push long and hard enough, more often than not, you can
          find out where your representatives stand on a particular issue,
          but if you try to reach out as an individual as I have, and made
          contact with every member of the state legislature, you are going
          to get know where.

          I do know that the group lost focus, and as I stated in the Meet Up
          venue, that was my fault. However, the primary purpose of joining
          together at that first meeting was to 'feel each other out', and
          find something about each other. I, for one, accomplished this,
          and I have been in contact with many of the folks individually at
          this point, including you with "our conversation" about extending
          libertarian programming in the Hudson Valley.


          > If we are not to be a group of broadly libertarian activists in
          various parties, then I will soon lose interest.

          Unfortunately, we have to extend our informal alliance and
          fellowship beyond libertarians to the larger "advocates of
          limited government" if we are to be successful in curbing some
          of the abuses that are falling upon our Constitution and us. If you
          lose interest or we are not successful in achieving tangible goals,
          not only will you lose interest, but the prospects for your
          children and grandchildren to enjoy even our limited freedoms of
          today will be greatly reduced.
          >
          > I just heard a talk by Lawrence Reid at FEE in which he described
          > joining YAF in the 1960's. This was a Republican group, I believe,
          .......

          I was a member of YAF from 1960 to 1964, and while a majority of
          its sponsors were Republicans, it also enjoyed the support of many
          Democratic officeholders, and others too. (The political scene of
          the early 60's was much different than it is today).

          > they handed him various books such as Hayek's "The Road to Serfdom",
          > Hazlitt's "Economics in One Lesson" and others.

          The reality was that YAF was a political action organization, not a
          scholarly one, and for that reason my brother Art and I pulled back
          from YAF and the University of Arizona YR's to work with ISI --
          at that time the Intercollegiate Society of Individualists, now
          the Intercollegiate Studies Institute -- and we co-founded a
          University of Arizona Chapter. ISI was the voice of the intellectual
          student right -- a necessary fusion of traditionalists and
          libertarians -- which reached out to try to "educate" (inform) the
          intellectuals on campus of the superiority of free markets, limited
          government, and personal freedom. "Intellectuals" by the way, were
          defined by our movement as the dealers of "second-hand ideas". In
          reality, "intellectuals" are the folks who end up in academia
          teaching the "teachers of teachers", the folks in the editorial
          offices of influential media outlets, the scholars in"think-tanks",
          and the like. ISI, which was fashioned after the Fabian Society,
          was successful, especially in some areas (most notably Economics),
          and hopefully, will continue to have a positive impact.


          >We might use Ron Paul's "The Revolution: A Manifesto" to
          educate/uncover supporters of libertarian ideas. Then we would at
          least know what we have in common. I am quite willing to give your
          group a chance. Let's see if those who showed up last Tuesday can read
          Ron's book and come away feeling that they agree with most of it, and
          be willing to participate in a group that uses it as a litmus test>.

          Bob: This is a political action group; we seek to direct public
          policy in a pro-freedom direction. Frankly, you can not do that by
          "uncovering" supporters of libertarian ideas one by one, nor by
          spending the bulk of your time reading and discussing among ourselves
          OR spending one's time in political action that is ineffectual in
          producing results (i.e., sign waving, demonstrating at the Federal
          Reserve, and the like).

          I do not see "the group" as a "formal" one, but rather as a coalition
          of individuals that will undertake to support candidates, support and
          oppose legislation, and the like, when possible. And, I am confident
          that we can rally around many, many things that will advance free
          markets, limited government, and personal freedom. And, I would
          suggest that the way to find out what people think is to talk to them.

          Carl
        • Carl Svensson
          ... elements that surrounded Ron Paul(read the platform of the NY Constitution Party for example). If you read the platform of the NY Constitution Party, I
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 23, 2008
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            --- In RLCNY-HV@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Svensson" <csvensson@...> wrote:
            >
            > (Indeed, you, and I have major differences with many of the
            elements that surrounded Ron Paul(read the platform of the
            NY Constitution Party for example).

            If you read the platform of the NY Constitution Party, I think
            that you will agree that there are aspects that both of us do not
            agree with, but the reality is that these folks are limited
            government "folks" too, support free markets, transparency in
            government and defend the Constitution. (And you might remember
            too that Ron Paul endorsed the Constitution Party nominee over
            the Libertarian one).

            We can often work together to support and oppose legislation, and
            at times, support the same candidates too (i.e., Ron Paul).

            As far as I know, we only have one member of the NY Constitution
            aboard at this time - Joe Eldred, an officer, and member of their
            State Board who lives in Orange County (Hi Joe). If we are
            successful, I would expect more members to join us in time,
            including Paul Henderson, another officer and State Board member
            who hails from your "neck of the woods".


            Carl
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