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Re: [RLC-Action] Father arrested over objections to curriculum in son's Kindergarten class

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  • bill Jambura
    Acknowledging that there are nontraditional families in a state with legalized gay marriage in a classroom is not imposing upon anyone, its stating fact.
    Message 1 of 44 , May 1 4:28 PM
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      Acknowledging that there are nontraditional families in a state with legalized gay marriage in a classroom is not "imposing" upon anyone, its stating fact.
       
      Sodomy is a fact of life as far back as the Old Testament.  Mosses, who I believe was a Jew, promulgated laws to deal with such activity within the Jewish society. Shouldn't those facts be stated concurrently within that classroom?  After all, they set an historical precedence. 
       
      Hitler killing Jews bothers me, but I do not protest the schools for teaching that it existed. 
       
      Hitler killing Jews, gypsies, mentally retarded children, etc bothers me too.  But that's tangential to gays demanding subsidized health care and social security survivor benefits.  "Joint Tenant, Right of Survivorship" takes care of all the private interests in any estate of real or personal property.  That's why the gay marriage argument in estate matters is a fraud. 
       
      Moreover, when any cross section of our society starts declaring a right to public monies based on their lifestyles, I 'll take issue with it--simply because I'm a taxpayer.  I'm not a Marxist or a socialist.  I don't equate "personal freedom" with a right to 'live for free off fruits of some one else's labor'.  In fact, the latter is a lack of "individual responsibility".
       
      I am willing to abide in peace with all my neighbors.  I have nothing for or against gays or anyone else until they expect me to expect me to subsidize, suffer from, clean up after, or be imposed upon by their lifestyles.  (Read carefully, that's NOT an "and" in the above sentence, it's a "or".
       
      Bill, with all respect, get your head out of your rump.
       
      "Heads in rumps" and the "F" word might be common language in your culture.  But it is uncommon for most families who prefer not to have their children imposed upon by being exposed to that culture, directly or superficially--especially in a public school where they are a captured audience.  Unfortunately, trash talk has replaced grammar and diagrammed sentences within our public schools as our children become the front line in this clash of cultures.
       
      All our children, gay or straight, would be better served if public schools focused on reading, writing and arithmetic and saved all this extraneous stuff for university level debating.  Childhood has an implicit right to innocence.  Let's teach our children how to think instead of trying to indoctrinate them within the sway of emotional debate. 
       
       
       
      On Sun, 1 May 2005 17:09:51 -0400 Jason Burkins <jason@...> writes:
      Bill,

      Acknowledging that there are non-traditional families in a state with legalized gay marriage in a classroom is not "imposing" upon anyone, its stating fact. If that fact bothers you, well tough luck. Hitler killing Jews bothers me, but I do not protest the schools for teaching that it existed. 
      From what I understand the material used in this classroom did not endorse nor did it condemn the existence of non-traditional families, it simply states that they exist. To do anything else is to deny children the facts and becomes censorship truly unbecoming of any libertarian minded individual. 

      Now to address your wildly flailing accusations about gay people: first of all, chronic diseases? Bill, with all respect, get your head out of your rump. This thinly veiled reference to AIDS is about 15 years out of date. Its time for new material my friend. The diseases you reference are far, far, far from gay specific these days. Oh and Bill, not all gay people have chronic diseases, sorry to break it to ya. 

      In terms of the whole gay marriage argument you speak to, I invite you to read my commentary piece on the issue at http://jason.burkins.net/marriage.html. There is a solution available to us that keeps church and state separate. I should hope you, as a libertarian thinking person, would agree with this approach. 

      Frankly, most of what you said goes in the looney notion file otherwise known as my e-mail trash bin, but I took the bait and responded anyway. 

      More and more I find too many RLC'ers letting their religious beliefs on certain issues get in the way of the way of their otherwise libertarian philosophies. These are not easy issues, especially when made complicated by religious traditions and long held convictions. That doesn't excuse anyone however for bigotry and ignorance. 



      On May 1, 2005, at 4:30 PM, bill Jambura wrote:


      My first problem with gays is that they demand that their lifestyle be
      endorsed by those oppose sodomy.  Moreover, I think the gays 'live and
      let live' argument is phony.  Instead, it's a roundabout spat over money,
      i.e. taxpayer subsidies for government bureaucrats that have 'life
      partners' with chronic diseases that are disproportionately concentrated
      among the gays.

      If they choose to live a risky lifestyle, then they should pay for it.
      In a Republican sense, before the death of republicanism, we used to
      banner "personal freedom AND individual responsibility".  But those days
      are gone, and now the fight is over who gets a free ride and who pays the
      toll.  What clouds the issue is the 'moral certainty' of countervailing
      special interests.



      On Sun, 01 May 2005 17:30:09 +0000 "michael franks"
      <michaelafranks@...> writes:
      > As usual,    the "pro-sin" guys of the RLC think anyone is a bigot
      > who
      > thinks homosexuality is wrong or those who are a Christian.
      >
      > The founders were revolutionaries and is why we are all here now.  
      > So is
      > the concept of revolution now wrong?
      >
      > and why the need for the "F" word on here?
      >
      > Makes me glad to be here in Texas and not in California.
      >
      > I for one would be for the Texas RLC leaving the National RLC to
      > distance
      > ourselves from being considered a "pro sin" organization.  We would
      > be
      > CRUCIFIED here if the personal views of some of the National RLC
      > guys ever
      > came out as being attached to us as an organization.
      >
      > Michael
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > >
      > >This is getting ridiculous.  The guy was arrested for trespassing. 
      > He
      > >admitted to trespassing, he even refused to pay his bail so that he
      > could
      > >spend the night in prison to try and get more press attention. 
      > This is no
      > >different from the people that chain themselves across a street to
      > stop
      > >traffic while protesting pollution from SUVs.  He may have had a
      > valid
      > >point
      > >about not wanting his kids to be taught things that his bigoted
      > little mind
      > >finds objectionable, but he doesn't have a right to refuse to leave
      > the
      > >school after he has been told to leave.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >Let's also look at the news sources. Adam is offering us a press
      > release
      > >from a group called "Article 8 Alliance", a Waltham, MA single
      > issue anti
      > >gay group.  No legitimate news articles have been offered, instead
      > he
      > >expects everyone to accept the ideology of the press release and
      > pick up
      > >the
      > >pitchforks like the photo on the Article 8 website of a guy with a
      > sign
      > >that
      > >states "Time for the 2nd Revolution".
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >And by the way, the jackass that got himself arrested IS A MEMBER
      > OF THE
      > >ARTICLE 8 ALLIANCE.  THIS WAS A FUCKING STAGED EVENT!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >People, read the Article 8 Alliance website for a change.  This is
      > not a
      > >group that we want to be associating ourselves with in any way.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >Now, on to the real news of this story.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >The Nashua Telegraph
      > >
      >
      >http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050429/NEWS0
      2/50
      > >429002/-1/news
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >Boston.Com
      > >
      >
      >http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/04/29/arrested_father_had
      _poi
      > >nt_to_make/
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      Yahoo! Groups Links



       
    • Adam J Bernay
      From: bill Jambura Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:40 PM ... No, they are not. They are a method of collecting taxes, various kinds of taxes. You can have a
      Message 44 of 44 , May 3 10:47 PM
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        From: bill Jambura
        Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:40 PM

        >> Why? 

        > Because payroll taxes are a flat tax on income

        No, they are not. They are a method of collecting taxes, various kinds of
        taxes. You can have a flat tax without a payroll tax.
         
        >> As I said, a part of this would be eliminating al
        >> deductions and whatnot.
        >
        > But if you eliminate all the deductions, you've solved
        > the problem.

        Thank you for admitting that.

        > But as a practical matter, eliminating deductions and
        > loopholes will never happen.  As long as there is any
        > income tax code, buying politicians is the best investment
        > any crony can make. 

        It will never happen as long as skeptics say it won't.
         
        > Except for a short-lived reprieve from a complex tax
        > form (which will never happen), all your flat tax does
        > is provide a tax cut for the rich by eliminating the
        > progressive scale. 

        Actually, no, because if we go with the proposal I make, they will pay MORE
        because they won't have their tax shelters, etc.

        >> The government knows how much you make (and that's all)
        >> with a flat tax...
        >
        > Not only does the government know how much you make, they
        > can demand, whenever they want, that you produce your
        > receipts to account for your deductions. 

        What part of "no deductions" don't you understand?


        Adam
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