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Re: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)

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  • Dave Nalle
    ... While there are some excellent books on the list I think we d want to stick more to fundamentals and include fewer controversial books. Some of what s on
    Message 1 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009
      Rob Alexander wrote:
      >
      > I like the list at
      > http://www.campaignforliberty.com/edu/reading-list.php
      > <http://www.campaignforliberty.com/edu/reading-list.php>.
      >




      While there are some excellent books on the list I think we'd want to
      stick more to
      fundamentals and include fewer controversial books. Some of what's on
      there is
      specifically anti-business, anti-republican and borderline
      anti-american. Too much
      emphasis on unfocused radicalism and too little on liberty.

      Dave
    • Bryan Haddock
      I agree... I believe that it s important that we establish our platform in such a way as to attract conservative Republicans AND Libertarians without
      Message 2 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009
        I agree... I believe that it's important that we establish our platform in such a way as to attract conservative Republicans AND Libertarians without compromising our principles.

        The language that we have on the RLC website seems very accessible to both of these groups... I'm curious as to how we've established our parameters regarding the type of people we want to attract...

        Again, I'm new to this group... don't mean to beat a dead horse... but is there some "target audience" that we have clearly defined in such a way that we're all on the same page?

        My background is in marketing, so this is my first question.  Since I've been involved with the RLC and spoken with several different folks, it seems that there's not a clear, universal consensus as to what our primary "platform" is, other than the big 3:  "Limited government, individual liberty, and free enterprise..." which is a very good start, but still leaves much to the imagination.

        -b

        On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Dave Nalle <graball@...> wrote:

        While there are some excellent books on the list I think we'd want to
        stick more to
        fundamentals and include fewer controversial books. Some of what's on
        there is
        specifically anti-business, anti-republican and borderline
        anti-american. Too much
        emphasis on unfocused radicalism and too little on liberty.

        Dave



        --
        Bryan Haddock
        bryan@...
        www.bhaddock.com
        423-991-2143

      • George Blumel
        On any book list there will be some that will find critics --I like that list and have read many of the books over the years but there are a couple that I
        Message 3 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009

           On any book list there will be some that will find critics --I like that list and have read many of the books over the years but there are a couple that I disagree with at least in part. That is to be expected –but we learn from all of them.  I went to Barnes & Noble on Tuesday to buy Mark Levin’s Tyranny and Liberty   but they were sold out the day they got them in. So I ordered from Amazon.  I buy a lot of books and would order through RLC if it gets set up.  –Geo.

           


          From: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dave Nalle
          Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:17 AM
          To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)

           

          Rob Alexander wrote:

          >
          > I like the list at
          > http://www.campaign forliberty. com/edu/reading- list.php
          > <http://www.campaign forliberty. com/edu/reading- list.php>.
          >

          While there are some excellent books on the list I think we'd want to
          stick more to
          fundamentals and include fewer controversial books. Some of what's on
          there is
          specifically anti-business, anti-republican and borderline
          anti-american. Too much
          emphasis on unfocused radicalism and too little on liberty.

          Dave

        • Mr geoff broughton
          I agree George, both in that any book will have its critics and that I would buy books through RLC. Here is an idea. Instead of importing a list from
          Message 4 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009
            I agree George, both in that any book will have its critics and that I would buy books through RLC.

            Here is an idea.  Instead of importing a list from somewhere else.  We create a members list.  Where each of us adds to it from books that we have read ourselves.  We can make the list somewhat interactive where members can comment on the books they have read on the list. 


            From: George Blumel <gblumel@...>
            To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 8:38:36 AM
            Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)

             On any book list there will be some that will find critics --I like that list and have read many of the books over the years but there are a couple that I disagree with at least in part. That is to be expected –but we learn from all of them.  I went to Barnes & Noble on Tuesday to buy Mark Levin’s Tyranny and Liberty   but they were sold out the day they got them in. So I ordered from Amazon.  I buy a lot of books and would order through RLC if it gets set up.  –Geo.

             


            From: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of Dave Nalle
            Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:17 AM
            To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
            Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)

             

            Rob Alexander wrote:

            >
            > I like the list at
            > http://www.campaign forliberty. com/edu/reading- list.php
            > <http://www.campaign forliberty. com/edu/reading- list.php>.
            >

            While there are some excellent books on the list I think we'd want to
            stick more to
            fundamentals and include fewer controversial books. Some of what's on
            there is
            specifically anti-business, anti-republican and borderline
            anti-american. Too much
            emphasis on unfocused radicalism and too little on liberty.

            Dave


          • Dave Nalle
            ... That s more or less what I was thinking. I ve put together a basic list of standards and I thought I d just ask for suggestions of additions. Dave
            Message 5 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009
              Mr geoff broughton wrote:
              > I agree George, both in that any book will have its critics and that I
              > would buy books through RLC.
              >
              > Here is an idea. Instead of importing a list from somewhere else. We
              > create a members list. Where each of us adds to it from books that we
              > have read ourselves. We can make the list somewhat interactive where
              > members can comment on the books they have read on the list.












              That's more or less what I was thinking. I've put together a basic list of
              standards and I thought I'd just ask for suggestions of additions.

              Dave
              >
              >
            • Rob Alexander
              I think it would be great if we could figure out a way to incorporate the GoodReads social network into this. Maybe we could use
              Message 6 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009
                I think it would be great if we could figure out a way to incorporate the GoodReads social network into this. Maybe we could use GoodReads' groups feature. You can take a look at the Books for Liberty and Individual Freedom group and my profile for some ideas of what GoodReads is about.


                - Rob Alexander


                On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Mr geoff broughton <perrinvk@...> wrote:

                I agree George, both in that any book will have its critics and that I would buy books through RLC.

                Here is an idea.  Instead of importing a list from somewhere else.  We create a members list.  Where each of us adds to it from books that we have read ourselves.  We can make the list somewhat interactive where members can comment on the books they have read on the list. 


                From: George Blumel <gblumel@...>Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 8:38:36 AM
                Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)

                 On any book list there will be some that will find critics --I like that list and have read many of the books over the years but there are a couple that I disagree with at least in part. That is to be expected –but we learn from all of them.  I went to Barnes & Noble on Tuesday to buy Mark Levin’s Tyranny and Liberty   but they were sold out the day they got them in. So I ordered from Amazon.  I buy a lot of books and would order through RLC if it gets set up.  –Geo.

                 


                From: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of Dave Nalle


                Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:17 AM
                To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com

                Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)

                 

                Rob Alexander wrote:


                >
                > I like the list at
                > http://www.campaign forliberty. com/edu/reading- list.php
                > <http://www.campaign forliberty. com/edu/reading- list.php>.

                >

                While there are some excellent books on the list I think we'd want to
                stick more to
                fundamentals and include fewer controversial books. Some of what's on
                there is
                specifically anti-business, anti-republican and borderline
                anti-american. Too much
                emphasis on unfocused radicalism and too little on liberty.

                Dave


              • David Johnson
                ... Actually they seemed quite sensible, and classics of the libertarian movement: Hazlitt, Weaver, Rothbard, Read, etc. I can t see anything that is
                Message 7 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009
                  >> I like the list at
                  >> http://www.campaignforliberty.com/edu/reading-list.php
                  >> <http://www.campaignforliberty.com/edu/reading-list.php>.
                  >>
                  > While there are some excellent books on the list I think we'd want to
                  > stick more to
                  > fundamentals and include fewer controversial books. Some of what's on
                  > there is
                  > specifically anti-business, anti-republican and borderline
                  > anti-american. Too much
                  > emphasis on unfocused radicalism and too little on liberty.

                  Actually they seemed quite sensible, and classics of the libertarian
                  movement: Hazlitt, Weaver, Rothbard, Read, etc. I can't see anything that
                  is anti-business, even if I squint. The only anti-Republican one is
                  DiLorenzo's book on Lincoln. I agree that is it controversial, but the
                  Republican Party it exposes is one that is a century gone. And nothing
                  anti-American as I would understand the term, unless you're referring to
                  the anti-interventionist tomes.

                  There is one conspiracy theory book on the list, and that raised my
                  eyebrow. Its endorsement by the Campaign For Liberty is troubling (and
                  makes me glad I didn't rush out and join them).

                  But I don't think Rob is suggesting we adopt that booklist en masse. We
                  will have our own list, and there is no reason we need to cut-n-paste from
                  another. I think maybe three quarters of the books would comfortably fit
                  in an RLC list.

                  --
                  David Johnson
                • David Johnson
                  ... This might be a better topic for RLC-Discuss, but outreach and recruitment are definite RLC-Action topics, so I ll respond. The Big Three points covers
                  Message 8 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009
                    > My background is in marketing, so this is my first question. Since I've
                    > been involved with the RLC and spoken with several different folks, it
                    > seems
                    > that there's not a clear, universal consensus as to what our primary
                    > "platform" is, other than the big 3: "Limited government, individual
                    > liberty, and free enterprise..." which is a very good start, but still
                    > leaves much to the imagination.

                    This might be a better topic for RLC-Discuss, but outreach and recruitment
                    are definite RLC-Action topics, so I'll respond.

                    The Big Three points covers everything, but they're way too broad. The
                    reason they don't get narrowed down much further is that you then start to
                    lose people. Does limited government mean we can't invade and occupy Iraq?
                    Does individual liberty apply to Mexicans? Or do the unborn? Does free
                    enterprise mean we have to abolish the Fed? All of these questions have
                    been argued over bitterly within the RLC.

                    It's the RLC's culture to not take a stand on issues of internal
                    controversy. Our desire is to win over small-government Republicans, not
                    to devolve into a debating society or engage in purity purges. For
                    example, we have not taken a firm stand on abortion (though we all agree
                    that government should not be funding it). If we came out solidly in favor
                    of pro-choice, we would lose 90% of conservatives. And if we came out
                    solidly in favor of pro-life, we would lose 90% of libertarians.

                    When people ask me about the RLC, I describe us as "big tent
                    libertarians". Surprisingly enough, conservatives are totally cool with
                    that. The 'L' word no longer offends Republicans like it did twenty years
                    ago. Once they know you're not infiltrator from the LP, they accept you.
                    Where they get their fur ruffled is when you start talking too radical.
                    Walk a few precincts for some local GOP candidates, and you're their best
                    friend!

                    --
                    David Johnson
                  • jap1@peoplepc.com
                    ... way that we re all on the same page? That’s a good question—and one with different answers for different purposes… As for “corporate culture,” I
                    Message 9 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009

                      > ... is there some "target audience" that we have clearly defined in such a way that we're all on the same page?

                       

                      That’s a good question—and one with different answers for different purposes…

                       

                      As for “corporate culture,” I think the RLC should be and has been composed of core activists who would be comfortable being categorized in the 80-80 or above range on the World’s Smallest Political Quiz—essentially, Libertarian Party-like people philosophically but with a good dose of political realism and professionalism and without the “ideological idiosyncrasies.”

                       

                      As for the broader RLC membership, when I work membership outreach tables, I say that we “represent anyone scoring on the top half of the chart” on the World’s Smallest Political Quiz.    Realistically, though, I don’t really expect anyone who is not “in or near the libertarian quadrant” on the chart to be likely members.

                       

                      In local chapters, I invite and welcome all comers.  Anyone who is at least interested in hearing the libertarian message contributes to the organization by just being involved.  Further, their presence serves our mission of “promoting libertarianism with the GOP.”

                       

                      >…it seems that there's not a clear, universal

                      consensus as to what our primary "platform" is, other than the big 3:  "Limited government, individual liberty, and free enterprise..." which is a very good start, but still leaves much to the imagination.

                       

                      The “big 3” as you call them are purposefully broad.  First, we’ve learned from the LP, the YRs, etc., that “platform fights” are divisive and tend to drive members away rather than unify them.  (When what you refer to as our “platform” was adopted, it was explicitly intended as not a platform but a “resolution”.  The difference is subtle but important.  The resolution serves the practical necessity of providing something we can point to when people inevitably ask what the RLC stands for, but—unlike like a platform—is not intended to be fought over at every convention or in any way construed as a litmus test for membership.  The fact that you found it “very accessible” to both libertarian and conservative Republicans shows that it has been successful.)  Second, while we do occasionally issue position statements or sign on to those of coalition allies, the primary reason d’être of the organization is not to espouse positions on issues but to “promote liberty-minded individuals within the Party and for elective office.”  (By empowering our members, we indirectly champion the issues they choose to focus upon.)  We recognize that being associated with specific positions could sometimes be a liability for candidates we support.  Thus, it is better to be known for our broad principles and let our candidates spell out the details as the needs of their campaigns and their constituents’ tolerance for innovative ideas dictate.

                      Jeff Palmer - jap1@...
                      North Carolina Republican Liberty Caucus

                      From: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Haddock
                      Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:26 AM
                      To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)

                       

                      I agree... I believe that it's important that we establish our platform in such a way as to attract conservative Republicans AND Libertarians without compromising our principles.

                      The language that we have on the RLC website seems very accessible to both of these groups... I'm curious as to how we've established our parameters regarding the type of people we want to attract...

                      Again, I'm new to this group... don't mean to beat a dead horse... but is there some "target audience" that we have clearly defined in such a way that we're all on the same page?

                      My background is in marketing, so this is my first question.  Since I've been involved with the RLC and spoken with several different folks, it seems that there's not a clear, universal consensus as to what our primary "platform" is, other than the big 3:  "Limited government, individual liberty, and free enterprise..." which is a very good start, but still leaves much to the imagination.
                      --
                      Bryan Haddock
                      bryan@...
                      www.bhaddock.com
                      423-991-2143

                       

                    • George Blumel
                      David: See Statement of Principles and Positions at http://rlcfl.org/about/principles.html On abortion, my guess is you have to be way off on the 90% of
                      Message 10 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009

                        David: See Statement of Principles and Positions at    http://rlcfl.org/about/principles.html

                         

                        On abortion, my guess is you have to be way off on the 90% of libertarians in favor of abortion. Ron Paul is certainly pro-life and my guess is that by far most of the libertarians in the RLC are pro-life as well. The right to life, liberty…..  You may be right of the LP but not the RLC, in my somewhat limited exposure anyway.  –Geo.


                        From: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Johnson
                        Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:16 PM
                        To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)

                         

                        > My background is in marketing, so this is my first question. Since I've

                        > been involved with the RLC and spoken with several different folks, it
                        > seems
                        > that
                        there's not a clear, universal consensus as to what our primary
                        > "platform" is, other than the big 3: "Limited government,
                        individual
                        > liberty, and free enterprise.. ." which is a very good start, but
                        still
                        > leaves much to the imagination.

                        This might be a better topic for RLC-Discuss, but outreach and recruitment
                        are definite RLC-Action topics, so I'll respond.

                        The Big Three points covers everything, but they're way too broad. The
                        reason they don't get narrowed down much further is that you then start to
                        lose people. Does limited government mean we can't invade and occupy Iraq ?
                        Does individual liberty apply to Mexicans? Or do the unborn? Does free
                        enterprise mean we have to abolish the Fed? All of these questions have
                        been argued over bitterly within the RLC.

                        It's the RLC's culture to not take a stand on issues of internal
                        controversy. Our desire is to win over small-government Republicans, not
                        to devolve into a debating society or engage in purity purges. For
                        example, we have not taken a firm stand on abortion (though we all agree
                        that government should not be funding it). If we came out solidly in favor
                        of pro-choice, we would lose 90% of conservatives. And if we came out
                        solidly in favor of pro-life, we would lose 90% of libertarians
                        .

                        When people ask me about the RLC, I describe us as "big tent
                        libertarians" . Surprisingly enough, conservatives are totally cool with
                        that. The 'L' word no longer offends Republicans like it did twenty years
                        ago. Once they know you're not infiltrator from the LP, they accept you.
                        Where they get their fur ruffled is when you start talking too radical.
                        Walk a few precincts for some local GOP candidates, and you're their best
                        friend!

                        --
                        David Johnson

                      • John Orlando
                        [We are far a field from appropriate content for RLC-Action, i.e, Should the RLC sell books on the website? -- Good, What do we think about abortion??
                        Message 11 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009
                          Gents & Ladies,

                          I've been reading these posts for a couple days now.  Maryland was recently chartered and as their chairman, I was invited into this discussion.  I understand that a lot of people have different views on this subject. 

                          On a more practical level, FOCA requires all hospitals to perform abortions.  Many hospitals have been set up by the churches that are fundamentally against abortions.

                          Would the RLC be against FOCA in so much as it forces doctors via the intrusion of the government to act in manors that are contrary to their own beliefs???

                          What are your thoughts??

                          John Orlando, Chairman
                          Maryland Republican Liberty Caucus

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "George Blumel" <gblumel@...>
                          To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] RLC Statement of Principles and Positions
                          Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 15:58:00 -0400

                          David: See Statement of Principles and Positions at    http://rlcfl. org/about/ principles. html

                           

                          On abortion, my guess is you have to be way off on the 90% of libertarians in favor of abortion. Ron Paul is certainly pro-life and my guess is that by far most of the libertarians in the RLC are pro-life as well. The right to life, liberty…..  You may be right of the LP but not the RLC, in my somewhat limited exposure anyway.  –Geo.


                          From: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of David Johnson
                          Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:16 PM
                          To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                          Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)

                           

                          > My background is in marketing, so this is my first question. Since I've
                          > been involved with the RLC and spoken with several different folks, it
                          > seems
                          > that
                          there's not a clear, universal consensus as to what our primary
                          > "platform" is, other than the big 3: "Limited government, individual
                          > liberty, and free enterprise.. ." which is a very good start, but still
                          > leaves much to the imagination.

                          This might be a better topic for RLC-Discuss, but outreach and recruitment
                          are definite RLC-Action topics, so I'll respond.

                          The Big Three points covers everything, but they're way too broad. The
                          reason they don't get narrowed down much further is that you then start to
                          lose people. Does limited government mean we can't invade and occupy Iraq ?
                          Does individual liberty apply to Mexicans? Or do the unborn? Does free
                          enterprise mean we have to abolish the Fed? All of these questions have
                          been argued over bitterly within the RLC.

                          It's the RLC's culture to not take a stand on issues of internal
                          controversy. Our desire is to win over small-government Republicans, not
                          to devolve into a debating society or engage in purity purges. For
                          example, we have not taken a firm stand on abortion (though we all agree
                          that government should not be funding it). If we came out solidly in favor
                          of pro-choice, we would lose 90% of conservatives. And if we came out
                          solidly in favor of pro-life, we would lose 90% of libertarians
                          .

                          When people ask me about the RLC, I describe us as "big tent
                          libertarians" . Surprisingly enough, conservatives are totally cool with
                          that. The 'L' word no longer offends Republicans like it did twenty years
                          ago. Once they know you're not infiltrator from the LP, they accept you.
                          Where they get their fur ruffled is when you start talking too radical.
                          Walk a few precincts for some local GOP candidates, and you're their best
                          friend!

                          --
                          David Johnson


                        • George Blumel
                          Great idea. _____ From: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr geoff broughton Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:12 AM
                          Message 12 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009

                            Great idea.

                             


                            From: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Mr geoff broughton
                            Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:12 AM
                            To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)

                             

                            I agree George, both in that any book will have its critics and that I would buy books through RLC.

                            Here is an idea.  Instead of importing a list from somewhere else.  We create a members list.  Where each of us adds to it from books that we have read ourselves.  We can make the list somewhat interactive where members can comment on the books they have read on the list. 

                             


                            From: George Blumel <gblumel@bellsouth. net>
                            To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 8:38:36 AM
                            Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)

                             On any book list there will be some that will find critics --I like that list and have read many of the books over the years but there are a couple that I disagree with at least in part. That is to be expected –but we learn from all of them.  I went to Barnes & Noble on Tuesday to buy Mark Levin’s Tyranny and Liberty   but they were sold out the day they got them in. So I ordered from Amazon.  I buy a lot of books and would order through RLC if it gets set up.  –Geo.

                             


                            From: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of Dave Nalle
                            Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:17 AM
                            To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                            Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)

                             

                            Rob Alexander wrote:

                            >
                            > I like the list at
                            >
                            target="_blank">http://www.campaign forliberty. com/edu/reading- list.php
                            > <
                            target="_blank">http://www.campaign forliberty. com/edu/reading- list.php>.
                            >

                            While there are some excellent books on the list I think we'd want to
                            stick more to
                            fundamentals and include fewer controversial books. Some of what's on
                            there is
                            specifically anti-business, anti-republican and borderline
                            anti-american. Too much
                            emphasis on unfocused radicalism and too little on liberty.

                            Dave

                             

                          • John Mitchel, LtCol, USAF (Ret
                            To: RLC-Action group,   Although the book described at www.patriotpressohio.com is available only at that site or by mail orders (Patriot Press Ohio c/o John
                            Message 13 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009
                              To: RLC-Action group,
                               
                              Although the book described at www.patriotpressohio.com is available only
                              at that site or by mail orders (Patriot Press Ohio c/o John Mitchel P.O. Box 341083, Beavercreek, OH 45434), I'd like to add it to the list.  I would be happy to
                              donate 20 percent of the purchase price to the RLC for sales generated by
                              this website.  Check it out at your convenience.
                               
                              Cheers,
                               
                              Mitch 

                              --- On Thu, 3/26/09, George Blumel <gblumel@...> wrote:
                              From: George Blumel <gblumel@...>
                              Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)
                              To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Thursday, March 26, 2009, 5:03 PM

                              Great idea.

                               


                              From: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of Mr geoff broughton
                              Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:12 AM
                              To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                              Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)

                               

                              I agree George, both in that any book will have its critics and that I would buy books through RLC.

                              Here is an idea.  Instead of importing a list from somewhere else.  We create a members list.  Where each of us adds to it from books that we have read ourselves.  We can make the list somewhat interactive where members can comment on the books they have read on the list. 

                               


                              From: George Blumel <gblumel@bellsouth. net>
                              To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 8:38:36 AM
                              Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)

                               On any book list there will be some that will find critics --I like that list and have read many of the books over the years but there are a couple that I disagree with at least in part. That is to be expected –but we learn from all of them.  I went to Barnes & Noble on Tuesday to buy Mark Levin’s Tyranny and Liberty   but they were sold out the day they got them in. So I ordered from Amazon.  I buy a lot of books and would order through RLC if it gets set up.  –Geo.

                               


                              From: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of Dave Nalle
                              Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:17 AM
                              To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                              Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)

                               

                              Rob Alexander wrote:
                              >
                              > I like the list at
                              > http://www.campaign forliberty. com/edu/reading- list.php
                              > <http://www.campaign forliberty. com/edu/reading- list.php>.
                              >

                              While there are some excellent books on the list I think we'd want to
                              stick more to
                              fundamentals and include fewer controversial books. Some of what's on
                              there is
                              specifically anti-business, anti-republican and borderline
                              anti-american. Too much
                              emphasis on unfocused radicalism and too little on liberty.

                              Dave

                               

                            • jap1@peoplepc.com
                              I don t know how the message below made it to the list without the following notation: [We are far afield from appropriate content for RLC-Action, i. e,
                              Message 14 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009

                                I don’t know how the message below made it to the list without the following notation:

                                 

                                [We are far afield from appropriate content for RLC-Action, i. e, "Should the RLC sell books on the website?" -- Good, "What do we think about abortion?" --Bad!  Since you're new to this group, I'll let this last post go through so folks can respond privately.  However (and I direct this to everyone), further discussion should be taken to RLC-Discuss.  Thanks. -- Moderator]

                                 

                                Let’s please take this to RLC-Discuss.

                                Jeff Palmer - jap1@...
                                Moderator

                                From: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Orlando
                                Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 4:47 PM
                                To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] RLC Statement of Principles and Positions


                                Gents & Ladies,

                                I've been reading these posts for a couple days now.  Maryland was recently chartered and as their chairman, I was invited into this discussion.  I understand that a lot of people have different views on this subject. 

                                On a more practical level, FOCA requires all hospitals to perform abortions.  Many hospitals have been set up by the churches that are fundamentally against abortions.

                                Would the RLC be against FOCA in so much as it forces doctors via the intrusion of the government to act in manors that are contrary to their own beliefs???

                                What are your thoughts??

                                John Orlando, Chairman
                                Maryland Republican Liberty Caucus

                                 

                              • John Mitchel, LtCol, USAF (Ret
                                John,   In my opinion, pro-life = pro-liberty.  The key question never asked or answered by Roe v. Wade is, When does human life begin?   If the Supremes
                                Message 15 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009
                                  John,
                                   
                                  In my opinion, pro-life = pro-liberty.  The key question never asked or answered by Roe v. Wade is, "When does human life begin?"  If the Supremes would have answered that question then the Constitution would protect human life from conception forward, but by careful design, in my opinion, they left open the answer to when "person-hood" begins.  Then there's always the hypothetical -- "What if a first tri-mester fetus is killed on the way to the abortion clinic by a negligent motorist......?  I don't think there is a court in the land that would not hold the negligent motorist accountable for manslaughter to the fullest extent of the law.  And let's not forget the death penalty.  We can't trust the government to spend our taxes responsibly, why should we leave life and death matters like capital punishment to them to sort out equal justice under the law.  Life in prison and restitution to the murdered victim's survivors would be more in line with Libertarianism, I believe.
                                   
                                  John Mitchel
                                  RLC-OH  

                                  --- On Thu, 3/26/09, John Orlando <jcorlando@...> wrote:
                                  From: John Orlando <jcorlando@...>
                                  Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] RLC Statement of Principles and Positions
                                  To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Thursday, March 26, 2009, 4:46 PM


                                  Gents & Ladies,

                                  I've been reading these posts for a couple days now.  Maryland was recently chartered and as their chairman, I was invited into this discussion.  I understand that a lot of people have different views on this subject. 

                                  On a more practical level, FOCA requires all hospitals to perform abortions.  Many hospitals have been set up by the churches that are fundamentally against abortions.

                                  Would the RLC be against FOCA in so much as it forces doctors via the intrusion of the government to act in manors that are contrary to their own beliefs???

                                  What are your thoughts??

                                  John Orlando, Chairman
                                  Maryland Republican Liberty Caucus

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "George Blumel" <gblumel@bellsouth. net>
                                  To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] RLC Statement of Principles and Positions
                                  Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 15:58:00 -0400

                                  David: See Statement of Principles and Positions at    http://rlcfl. org/about/ principles. html

                                   

                                  On abortion, my guess is you have to be way off on the 90% of libertarians in favor of abortion. Ron Paul is certainly pro-life and my guess is that by far most of the libertarians in the RLC are pro-life as well. The right to life, liberty…..  You may be right of the LP but not the RLC, in my somewhat limited exposure anyway.  –Geo.


                                  From: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of David Johnson
                                  Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:16 PM
                                  To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)

                                   

                                  > My background is in marketing, so this is my first question. Since I've
                                  > been involved with the RLC and spoken with several different folks, it
                                  > seems
                                  > that
                                  there's not a clear, universal consensus as to what our primary
                                  > "platform" is, other than the big 3: "Limited government, individual
                                  > liberty, and free enterprise.. ." which is a very good start, but still
                                  > leaves much to the imagination.

                                  This might be a better topic for RLC-Discuss, but outreach and recruitment
                                  are definite RLC-Action topics, so I'll respond.

                                  The Big Three points covers everything, but they're way too broad. The
                                  reason they don't get narrowed down much further is that you then start to
                                  lose people. Does limited government mean we can't invade and occupy Iraq ?
                                  Does individual liberty apply to Mexicans? Or do the unborn? Does free
                                  enterprise mean we have to abolish the Fed? All of these questions have
                                  been argued over bitterly within the RLC.

                                  It's the RLC's culture to not take a stand on issues of internal
                                  controversy. Our desire is to win over small-government Republicans, not
                                  to devolve into a debating society or engage in purity purges. For
                                  example, we have not taken a firm stand on abortion (though we all agree
                                  that government should not be funding it). If we came out solidly in favor
                                  of pro-choice, we would lose 90% of conservatives. And if we came out
                                  solidly in favor of pro-life, we would lose 90% of libertarians
                                  .

                                  When people ask me about the RLC, I describe us as "big tent
                                  libertarians" . Surprisingly enough, conservatives are totally cool with
                                  that. The 'L' word no longer offends Republicans like it did twenty years
                                  ago. Once they know you're not infiltrator from the LP, they accept you.
                                  Where they get their fur ruffled is when you start talking too radical.
                                  Walk a few precincts for some local GOP candidates, and you're their best
                                  friend!

                                  --
                                  David Johnson

                                • John Orlando
                                  John, I think Jeff Palmer wanted us to take this discussion to RLC-Discuss@yahoogroups.com BTW will you be in Jacksonville, tomorrow? we can pick up this
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009
                                    John,

                                    I think Jeff Palmer wanted us to take this discussion to RLC-Discuss@yahoogroups.com

                                    BTW will you be in Jacksonville, tomorrow?  we can pick up this conversation then.

                                    John Orlando, MBA, Chairman
                                    Maryland Republican Liberty Caucus.
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "John Mitchel, LtCol, USAF \(Ret" <mitch07ohio@...>
                                    To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] RLC Statement of Principles and Positions
                                    Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:59:47 -0700 (PDT)

                                    John,
                                     
                                    In my opinion, pro-life = pro-liberty.  The key question never asked or answered by Roe v. Wade is, "When does human life begin?"  If the Supremes would have answered that question then the Constitution would protect human life from conception forward, but by careful design, in my opinion, they left open the answer to when "person-hood" begins.  Then there's always the hypothetical -- "What if a first tri-mester fetus is killed on the way to the abortion clinic by a negligent motorist.... ..?  I don't think there is a court in the land that would not hold the negligent motorist accountable for manslaughter to the fullest extent of the law.  And let's not forget the death penalty.  We can't trust the government to spend our taxes responsibly, why should we leave life and death matters like capital punishment to them to sort out equal justice under the law.  Life in prison and restitution to the murdered victim's survivors would be more in line with Libertarianism, I believe.
                                     
                                    John Mitchel
                                    RLC-OH  

                                    --- On Thu, 3/26/09, John Orlando <jcorlando@mail. com> wrote:
                                    From: John Orlando <jcorlando@mail. com>
                                    Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] RLC Statement of Principles and Positions
                                    To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                                    Date: Thursday, March 26, 2009, 4:46 PM


                                    Gents & Ladies,

                                    I've been reading these posts for a couple days now.  Maryland was recently chartered and as their chairman, I was invited into this discussion.  I understand that a lot of people have different views on this subject. 

                                    On a more practical level, FOCA requires all hospitals to perform abortions.  Many hospitals have been set up by the churches that are fundamentally against abortions.

                                    Would the RLC be against FOCA in so much as it forces doctors via the intrusion of the government to act in manors that are contrary to their own beliefs???

                                    What are your thoughts??

                                    John Orlando, Chairman
                                    Maryland Republican Liberty Caucus

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "George Blumel" <gblumel@bellsouth. net>
                                    To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] RLC Statement of Principles and Positions
                                    Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 15:58:00 -0400

                                    David: See Statement of Principles and Positions at    http://rlcfl. org/about/ principles. html

                                     

                                    On abortion, my guess is you have to be way off on the 90% of libertarians in favor of abortion. Ron Paul is certainly pro-life and my guess is that by far most of the libertarians in the RLC are pro-life as well. The right to life, liberty…..  You may be right of the LP but not the RLC, in my somewhat limited exposure anyway.  –Geo.


                                    From: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of David Johnson
                                    Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:16 PM
                                    To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)

                                     

                                    > My background is in marketing, so this is my first question. Since I've
                                    > been involved with the RLC and spoken with several different folks, it
                                    > seems
                                    > that
                                    there's not a clear, universal consensus as to what our primary
                                    > "platform" is, other than the big 3: "Limited government, individual
                                    > liberty, and free enterprise.. ." which is a very good start, but still
                                    > leaves much to the imagination.

                                    This might be a better topic for RLC-Discuss, but outreach and recruitment
                                    are definite RLC-Action topics, so I'll respond.

                                    The Big Three points covers everything, but they're way too broad. The
                                    reason they don't get narrowed down much further is that you then start to
                                    lose people. Does limited government mean we can't invade and occupy Iraq ?
                                    Does individual liberty apply to Mexicans? Or do the unborn? Does free
                                    enterprise mean we have to abolish the Fed? All of these questions have
                                    been argued over bitterly within the RLC.

                                    It's the RLC's culture to not take a stand on issues of internal
                                    controversy. Our desire is to win over small-government Republicans, not
                                    to devolve into a debating society or engage in purity purges. For
                                    example, we have not taken a firm stand on abortion (though we all agree
                                    that government should not be funding it). If we came out solidly in favor
                                    of pro-choice, we would lose 90% of conservatives. And if we came out
                                    solidly in favor of pro-life, we would lose 90% of libertarians
                                    .

                                    When people ask me about the RLC, I describe us as "big tent
                                    libertarians" . Surprisingly enough, conservatives are totally cool with
                                    that. The 'L' word no longer offends Republicans like it did twenty years
                                    ago. Once they know you're not infiltrator from the LP, they accept you.
                                    Where they get their fur ruffled is when you start talking too radical.
                                    Walk a few precincts for some local GOP candidates, and you're their best
                                    friend!

                                    --
                                    David Johnson


                                  • John Mitchel, LtCol, USAF (Ret
                                    John,   You re right.  I launched the email before receiving Jeff s post.    Mitch   PS: Regretfully I will not make it to Jacksonville.  Hope you and
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Mar 27, 2009
                                      John,
                                       
                                      You're right.  I launched the email before receiving Jeff's post. 
                                       
                                      Mitch
                                       
                                      PS: Regretfully I will not make it to Jacksonville.  Hope you and the other RLC troops
                                      have a safe and productive convention.

                                      --- On Thu, 3/26/09, John Orlando <jcorlando@...> wrote:
                                      From: John Orlando <jcorlando@...>
                                      Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] RLC Statement of Principles and Positions
                                      To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Thursday, March 26, 2009, 9:23 PM


                                      John,

                                      I think Jeff Palmer wanted us to take this discussion to RLC-Discuss@ yahoogroups. com

                                      BTW will you be in Jacksonville, tomorrow?  we can pick up this conversation then.

                                      John Orlando, MBA, Chairman
                                      Maryland Republican Liberty Caucus.
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "John Mitchel, LtCol, USAF \(Ret" <mitch07ohio@ sbcglobal. net>
                                      To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] RLC Statement of Principles and Positions
                                      Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:59:47 -0700 (PDT)

                                      John,
                                       
                                      In my opinion, pro-life = pro-liberty.  The key question never asked or answered by Roe v. Wade is, "When does human life begin?"  If the Supremes would have answered that question then the Constitution would protect human life from conception forward, but by careful design, in my opinion, they left open the answer to when "person-hood" begins.  Then there's always the hypothetical -- "What if a first tri-mester fetus is killed on the way to the abortion clinic by a negligent motorist.... ..?  I don't think there is a court in the land that would not hold the negligent motorist accountable for manslaughter to the fullest extent of the law.  And let's not forget the death penalty.  We can't trust the government to spend our taxes responsibly, why should we leave life and death matters like capital punishment to them to sort out equal justice under the law.  Life in prison and restitution to the murdered victim's survivors would be more in line with Libertarianism, I believe.
                                       
                                      John Mitchel
                                      RLC-OH  

                                      --- On Thu, 3/26/09, John Orlando <jcorlando@mail. com> wrote:
                                      From: John Orlando <jcorlando@mail. com>
                                      Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] RLC Statement of Principles and Positions
                                      To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                                      Date: Thursday, March 26, 2009, 4:46 PM


                                      Gents & Ladies,

                                      I've been reading these posts for a couple days now.  Maryland was recently chartered and as their chairman, I was invited into this discussion.  I understand that a lot of people have different views on this subject. 

                                      On a more practical level, FOCA requires all hospitals to perform abortions.  Many hospitals have been set up by the churches that are fundamentally against abortions.

                                      Would the RLC be against FOCA in so much as it forces doctors via the intrusion of the government to act in manors that are contrary to their own beliefs???

                                      What are your thoughts??

                                      John Orlando, Chairman
                                      Maryland Republican Liberty Caucus

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "George Blumel" <gblumel@bellsouth. net>
                                      To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] RLC Statement of Principles and Positions
                                      Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 15:58:00 -0400

                                      David: See Statement of Principles and Positions at    http://rlcfl. org/about/ principles. html

                                       

                                      On abortion, my guess is you have to be way off on the 90% of libertarians in favor of abortion. Ron Paul is certainly pro-life and my guess is that by far most of the libertarians in the RLC are pro-life as well. The right to life, liberty…..  You may be right of the LP but not the RLC, in my somewhat limited exposure anyway.  –Geo.


                                      From: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of David Johnson
                                      Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:16 PM
                                      To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] RLC Web Bookstore (Was Re: Conservative Manifesto?)

                                       

                                      > My background is in marketing, so this is my first question. Since I've
                                      > been involved with the RLC and spoken with several different folks, it
                                      > seems
                                      > that
                                      there's not a clear, universal consensus as to what our primary
                                      > "platform" is, other than the big 3: "Limited government, individual
                                      > liberty, and free enterprise.. ." which is a very good start, but still
                                      > leaves much to the imagination.

                                      This might be a better topic for RLC-Discuss, but outreach and recruitment
                                      are definite RLC-Action topics, so I'll respond.

                                      The Big Three points covers everything, but they're way too broad. The
                                      reason they don't get narrowed down much further is that you then start to
                                      lose people. Does limited government mean we can't invade and occupy Iraq ?
                                      Does individual liberty apply to Mexicans? Or do the unborn? Does free
                                      enterprise mean we have to abolish the Fed? All of these questions have
                                      been argued over bitterly within the RLC.

                                      It's the RLC's culture to not take a stand on issues of internal
                                      controversy. Our desire is to win over small-government Republicans, not
                                      to devolve into a debating society or engage in purity purges. For
                                      example, we have not taken a firm stand on abortion (though we all agree
                                      that government should not be funding it). If we came out solidly in favor
                                      of pro-choice, we would lose 90% of conservatives. And if we came out
                                      solidly in favor of pro-life, we would lose 90% of libertarians
                                      .

                                      When people ask me about the RLC, I describe us as "big tent
                                      libertarians" . Surprisingly enough, conservatives are totally cool with
                                      that. The 'L' word no longer offends Republicans like it did twenty years
                                      ago. Once they know you're not infiltrator from the LP, they accept you.
                                      Where they get their fur ruffled is when you start talking too radical.
                                      Walk a few precincts for some local GOP candidates, and you're their best
                                      friend!

                                      --
                                      David Johnson


                                    • Erik Setzer
                                      I don t mean to hijack the discussion here, but since you ve mentioned the convention, I d like to post a link to some photos of volunteers working hard last
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Mar 27, 2009
                                        I don't mean to hijack the discussion here, but since you've mentioned the convention, I'd like to post a link to some photos of volunteers working hard last night on preparations:
                                        http://s637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/rlcnef/RLC%20Convention%20Thursday/

                                        Not everyone who was involved got in on the photos, as my camera unfortunately died early.  I would have loved to get pictures of the finished bags and binders and everything else.  There was a lot of work to be done (and still is, today!), but a lot of people ready and willing to help.  I believe this convention will most definitely be productive and exciting!

                                        -Erik



                                        On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 6:40 AM, John Mitchel, LtCol, USAF (Ret <mitch07ohio@...> wrote:

                                        PS: Regretfully I will not make it to Jacksonville.  Hope you and the other RLC troops
                                        have a safe and productive convention.

                                        --- On Thu, 3/26/09, John Orlando <jcorlando@...> wrote:
                                        From: John Orlando <jcorlando@...>
                                        Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] RLC Statement of Principles and Positions
                                        To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Thursday, March 26, 2009, 9:23 PM


                                        BTW will you be in Jacksonville, tomorrow?  we can pick up this conversation then.

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