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RE: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

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  • George Blumel
    The misconception that Mr Johnson expresses below needs to be put in perspective. I know of NO RLCer who is slavish to anything or anybody, much less a
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008
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      The misconception that Mr Johnson expresses below needs to be put in perspective.  I know of NO RLCer who is “slavish” to anything or anybody, much less a political party; no one except Mr Johnson has ever suggested anything like “my party, right or wrong..”  We are part of the party, not subject to it. We are helping to set the agenda in a libertarian direction and we are succeeding –check out the 2008 Platform and compare it to the 2004 version as one example already.  Mr Johnson and some others seem to think that the party sends out directives and we all jump to it.  They should get involved and find out how the real world works.  We have a lot to do and a long way to go and we don’t need this misinformed negativity in our way. Bring your libertarian principles, knowledge and understanding of our Constitutional Republic and get busy educating and influencing within the party. That’s our purpose and goal.  –Geo.

       

       


      From: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Johnson
      Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 9:50 PM
      To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

       

      On Sunday 14 September 2008 03:46:38 pm George Blumel wrote:

      > The post by McLenden belongs on the LP site, not the RLC group. This is
      > not appropriate for a Republican group. What are you thinking? Anything
      > you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly equal to
      > support for the Obama bin Biden ticket.

      On the other hand, slavish devotion to the Republican Party does nothing to
      advance liberty. How can we possibly influence the party leadership when it
      knows we'll roll over and support whatever statist manages to get on the
      ticket? The attitude of "my party right or wrong" has to go. When the party
      is wrong we must not be afraid to tell it is wrong.

      --
      David Johnson

    • David Johnson
      ... My slavish statement was directed towards the following quote: Anything you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly equal to support for
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008
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        > The misconception that Mr Johnson expresses below needs to be put in
        > perspective. I know of NO RLCer who is "slavish" to anything or anybody,
        > much less a political party; no one except Mr Johnson has ever suggested
        > anything like "my party, right or wrong.." We are part of the party, not
        > subject to it. We are helping to set the agenda in a libertarian direction
        > and we are succeeding -check out the 2008 Platform and compare it to the
        > 2004 version as one example already. Mr Johnson and some others seem to
        > think that the party sends out directives and we all jump to it. They
        > should get involved and find out how the real world works. We have a lot
        > to do and a long way to go and we don't need this misinformed negativity
        > in our way. Bring your libertarian principles, knowledge and
        > understanding of our Constitutional Republic and get busy educating and
        > influencing within the party. That's our purpose and goal. -Geo.

        My "slavish" statement was directed towards the following quote:

        "Anything you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly
        equal to support for the Obama bin Biden ticket."

        I interpret this as meaning I must support whoever the party nominates no
        matter what. I cannot do that. I won't work against McCain, but neither
        can I actively campaign for him. Don't lay a guilt trip on me about
        enabling Obama.

        The only power we have as the RLC is our reputation and our support of
        libertarian candidates. But we lose our reputation when we support
        non-libertarian candidates. Telling us all to shut up and back McCain
        emasculates us. It sending a clear signal to the party leadership that we
        will support anyone they tell us to. We shouldn't be supporting Barr, but
        neither should we be elbowing our way to the front of McCain's
        cheerleading section.

        David Johnson

        p.s. Regarding that original post urging Ron Paul to accept Barr's offer,
        I think it's a silly idea am I am in no way endorsing it.
      • George Blumel
        Actions have consequences: if you refuse to support the candidate of your own professed party, then you are indeed enabling the opponent. McCain was almost
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008
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          Actions have consequences: if you refuse to support the candidate of your own professed party, then you are indeed enabling the opponent.  McCain was almost surely not the first choice for president of any RLCer. But when it comes down to two, us and them, it is either us or them. Simple.  Now, looking forward, let’s work hard and make sure that next time the primary winner is as libertarian a candidate as possible.  There are some coming up the line and they need our support.  Look at McCain’s advisors –there are some of our people up there notably Steve Forbes. Now let’s drop this discussion and get to work helping McCain-Palin keep Obama bin Biden from appointing to the Supreme Court those who will take away our Constitution completely (among other devastating anti-libertarian actions.).                         -Geo

           


          From: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Johnson
          Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 2:27 PM
          To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

           

          > The misconception that Mr Johnson expresses below needs to be put in

          > perspective. I know of NO RLCer who is "slavish" to anything or
          anybody,
          > much less a political party; no one except Mr Johnson has ever suggested
          > anything like "my party, right or wrong.." We are part of the party,
          not
          > subject to it. We are helping to set the agenda in a libertarian direction
          > and we are succeeding -check out the 2008 Platform and compare it to the
          > 2004 version as one example already. Mr Johnson and some others seem to
          > think that the party sends out directives and we all jump to it. They
          > should get involved and find out how the real world works. We have a lot
          > to do and a long way to go and we don't need this misinformed negativity
          > in our way. Bring your libertarian principles, knowledge and
          > understanding of our Constitutional
          Republic and get busy educating and
          > influencing within the party. That's our purpose and goal. -Geo.

          My "slavish" statement was directed towards the following quote:

          "Anything you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly
          equal to support for the Obama bin Biden ticket."

          I interpret this as meaning I must support whoever the party nominates no
          matter what. I cannot do that. I won't work against McCain, but neither
          can I actively campaign for him. Don't lay a guilt trip on me about
          enabling Obama.

          The only power we have as the RLC is our reputation and our support of
          libertarian candidates. But we lose our reputation when we support
          non-libertarian candidates. Telling us all to shut up and back McCain
          emasculates us. It sending a clear signal to the party leadership that we
          will support anyone they tell us to. We shouldn't be supporting Barr, but
          neither should we be elbowing our way to the front of McCain's
          cheerleading section.

          David Johnson

          p.s. Regarding that original post urging Ron Paul to accept Barr's offer,
          I think it's a silly idea am I am in no way endorsing it.

        • westmiller@aol.com
          ... I have warned Guy McLendon about posting solicitations for LP projects or campaigns on RLC sites ... but it looks like we ll have to put him on moderated
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008
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            George Blumel wrote:
            > The post by McLenden belongs on the LP site ...

            I have warned Guy McLendon about posting solicitations
            for LP projects or campaigns on RLC sites ... but it looks like
            we'll have to put him on moderated mode. We have absolutely
            no responsibility to facilitate any LP objectives.

            But, do note that the RLC has no "litmus test" for becoming
            a member and participating in this forum. We have a distinct
            membership class ("Associate Member") for those who are
            not "affiliated" with the GOP. Those members CANNOT be
            RLC officers or delegates, nor hold any official position in
            the RLC, but they can participate in RLC forums.

            Posted by: "David Johnson"
            > How can we possibly influence the party leadership when it
            > knows we'll roll over and support whatever statist ...

            Be careful about the "we" in this sentence. The RLC does
            not monitor, enforce, nor purge members who cast a ballot
            for non-GOP candidates (nor those who participate in any
            other political party ... ie: "Associates").

            The RLC itself, a different "we", does not ever endorse
            any candidate *in opposition to a formal GOP candidate*,
            but we do - and have - endorsed LP candidates in races
            where there is no GOP nominee. Even if we do not formally
            endorsed an official GOP nominee, *as an organization*
            we implicitly favor GOP candidates over any alternatives.

            The RLC itself *never* contributes to any campaign,
            GOP or otherwise. That function is exclusive to RLCUSA-
            PAC, which is "affiliated with" the RLC, but has a separate
            Board and checking account.

            > ... The attitude of "my party right or wrong" has to go.
            > When the party is wrong we must not be afraid to tell
            > it is wrong.
            That's the whole purpose of the RLC: to advance liberty
            ideals in the GOP ... frequently in direct opposition to the
            party platform and official GOP candidate positions.

            But, in order to work *within* the party, we almost never
            make official RLC statements in opposition to any GOP
            candidate as an individual. Members and officers are free
            to criticize any candidate they please, but *may not do
            so as an official RLC representative* in a public forum.

            RLC-Action is a *private* forum, for members-only, but
            we discourage any kind of personal attacks on anyone,
            candidate or not. Also bear in mind that this forum is
            for activism, NOT for discussion of candidates or issues.
            Queries about RLC policy are welcome.

            Bill




            **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
            plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
            (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
          • John Conway
            Boil all the fat off of it, and this forum should never be used to denigrate the Republican Party. That only causes them to circle the wagons against the
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008
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                  Boil all the fat off of it, and this forum should never be used to denigrate the Republican Party.  That only causes them to circle the wagons against the perceived threat.  We're trying to help them re-discover their roots, not put them out of business.  The rank and file there are just a susceptible to NEOCON propaganda as the rest of the country.  We are the light for them.  The rank and file there are not collectivist. However, they are for the most part uninformede.  Therefore, they are our allies.  We are the light.
               
              In Liberty,
              John Conway

              Republican Liberty Caucus
              "Pursuing libertarianism within the GOP since 1990"


              ----- Original Message ----
              From: George Blumel <gblumel@...>
              To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 1:39:09 PM
              Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

              The misconception that Mr Johnson expresses below needs to be put in perspective.  I know of NO RLCer who is “slavish” to anything or anybody, much less a political party; no one except Mr Johnson has ever suggested anything like “my party, right or wrong..”  We are part of the party, not subject to it. We are helping to set the agenda in a libertarian direction and we are succeeding –check out the 2008 Platform and compare it to the 2004 version as one example already.  Mr Johnson and some others seem to think that the party sends out directives and we all jump to it.  They should get involved and find out how the real world works.  We have a lot to do and a long way to go and we don’t need this misinformed negativity in our way. Bring your libertarian principles, knowledge and understanding of our Constitutional Republic and get busy educating and influencing within the party. That’s our purpose and goal.  –Geo.

               

               


              From: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of David Johnson
              Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 9:50 PM
              To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
              Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

               

              On Sunday 14 September 2008 03:46:38 pm George Blumel wrote:

              > The post by McLenden belongs on the LP site, not the RLC group. This is
              > not appropriate for a Republican group. What are you thinking? Anything
              > you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly equal to
              > support for the Obama bin Biden ticket.

              On the other hand, slavish devotion to the Republican Party does nothing to
              advance liberty. How can we possibly influence the party leadership when it
              knows we'll roll over and support whatever statist manages to get on the
              ticket? The attitude of "my party right or wrong" has to go. When the party
              is wrong we must not be afraid to tell it is wrong.

              --
              David Johnson


            • Mr geoff broughton
              I hate to agree with George on just about anything. But he is right, this is a Republican group. We will all make our own choice when we go to cast our
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008
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                I hate to agree with George on just about anything.  But he is right, this is a Republican group.  We will all make our own choice when we go to cast our ballot for president, i am sure that most of us who came to the Republican party because of Dr. Paul, will feel entirely different about our choices then some others, but there are many other, more appropriate discussion boards to take up the 3rd party cause on.

                I hate to derail a discussion like this, but has anyone reached out to homeschoolers?  I would bet money that most people who do homeschooling vote Republican, as votes about the topic usually fall along party lines. 

                We were brainstorming about ways we could get more awareness out there about Liberty, and coming up with some curriculum for homeschoolers was mentioned. 

                Geoff

                ----- Original Message ----
                From: George Blumel <gblumel@...>
                To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 1:28:06 PM
                Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

                Actions have consequences: if you refuse to support the candidate of your own professed party, then you are indeed enabling the opponent.  McCain was almost surely not the first choice for president of any RLCer. But when it comes down to two, us and them, it is either us or them. Simple.  Now, looking forward, let’s work hard and make sure that next time the primary winner is as libertarian a candidate as possible.  There are some coming up the line and they need our support.  Look at McCain’s advisors –there are some of our people up there notably Steve Forbes. Now let’s drop this discussion and get to work helping McCain-Palin keep Obama bin Biden from appointing to the Supreme Court those who will take away our Constitution completely (among other devastating anti-libertarian actions.).                         -Geo

                 


                From: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of David Johnson
                Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 2:27 PM
                To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

                 

                > The misconception that Mr Johnson expresses below needs to be put in

                > perspective. I know of NO RLCer who is "slavish" to anything or
                anybody,
                > much less a political party; no one except Mr Johnson has ever suggested
                > anything like "my party, right or wrong.." We are part of the party,
                not
                > subject to it. We are helping to set the agenda in a libertarian direction
                > and we are succeeding -check out the 2008 Platform and compare it to the
                > 2004 version as one example already. Mr Johnson and some others seem to
                > think that the party sends out directives and we all jump to it. They
                > should get involved and find out how the real world works. We have a lot
                > to do and a long way to go and we don't need this misinformed negativity
                > in our way. Bring your libertarian principles, knowledge and
                > understanding of our Constitutional
                Republic and get busy educating and
                > influencing within the party. That's our purpose and goal. -Geo.

                My "slavish" statement was directed towards the following quote:

                "Anything you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly
                equal to support for the Obama bin Biden ticket."

                I interpret this as meaning I must support whoever the party nominates no
                matter what. I cannot do that. I won't work against McCain, but neither
                can I actively campaign for him. Don't lay a guilt trip on me about
                enabling Obama.

                The only power we have as the RLC is our reputation and our support of
                libertarian candidates. But we lose our reputation when we support
                non-libertarian candidates. Telling us all to shut up and back McCain
                emasculates us. It sending a clear signal to the party leadership that we
                will support anyone they tell us to. We shouldn't be supporting Barr, but
                neither should we be elbowing our way to the front of McCain's
                cheerleading section.

                David Johnson

                p.s. Regarding that original post urging Ron Paul to accept Barr's offer,
                I think it's a silly idea am I am in no way endorsing it.


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