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Re: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

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  • John Conway
    We need a meeting. We shouldn t even be talking about any other party here. The RLC is a tool for change, one of many at our disposal. Lets play the part
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 14, 2008
      We need a meeting.  We shouldn't even be talking about any other party here.  The RLC is a tool for change, one of many at our disposal.
      Lets play the part here.  Start another forum and change your E address for other discussions.  Don't think for one minute that we aren't being monitored by others.
       
      In Liberty,
      John Conway

      Republican Liberty Caucus
      "Pursuing libertarianism within the GOP since 1990"


      ----- Original Message ----
      From: David Baumgardner <dpbaumgardner@...>
      To: rlc-action@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 10:39:10 PM
      Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

      However, if the party sees the caucus support another party over the Republicans.  it will dismiss the caucus as just a tool for the LP.  RLC candidates will never get the Republicam support they need.  The party will rightly suggest that liberty-Republicans aren't true Republicans because they support the LP when they don't get their way.
       
      It is not a matter of rolling over.  It is a matter of gaining credibility and applying the force within the Republican Party to get our agenda recognized and respected.  That doesn't happen by bailing the first sign of not getting our way. 




      To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
      From: david@usermode. org
      Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 18:49:54 -0700
      Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement


      On Sunday 14 September 2008 03:46:38 pm George Blumel wrote:
      > The post by McLenden belongs on the LP site, not the RLC group. This is
      > not appropriate for a Republican group. What are you thinking? Anything
      > you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly equal to
      > support for the Obama bin Biden ticket.

      On the other hand, slavish devotion to the Republican Party does nothing to
      advance liberty. How can we possibly influence the party leadership when it
      knows we'll roll over and support whatever statist manages to get on the
      ticket? The attitude of "my party right or wrong" has to go. When the party
      is wrong we must not be afraid to tell it is wrong.

      --
      David Johnson



      See how Windows Mobile brings your life together—at home, work, or on the go. See Now

    • Louis William Rose
      Snnnnoooorrrrrrrrrrr... ... November ... offer. ... president, has ... upcoming ... to seriously ... leadership ... Fahrenkopf, in ... efforts ... Party and
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008
        Snnnnoooorrrrrrrrrrr...

        --- In RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com, "Guy McLendon" <guy@...> wrote:
        >
        > There is still an opportunity for Ron Paul to be on the ballot in
        November
        > 2008. Please call Ron's office, and ask him to accept Bob Barr's
        offer.
        >
        >
        >
        > Guy McLendon
        >
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: Russ Verney, BobBarr2008.com [mailto:info@...]
        > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 1:58 PM
        > To: hclpchair@...
        > Subject: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement
        >
        >
        >
        > Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement
        >
        > Asks Paul to Run as his Vice President
        >
        > Atlanta, GA - Bob Barr, the Libertarian Party nominee for
        president, has
        > invited GOP Congressman Ron Paul to be his running mate in the
        upcoming
        > election. In a letter sent to Paul, Barr called Paul one of the "few
        > American patriots" who exist in today's society, and asked him
        to "seriously
        > consider this final offer as an opportunity to show true, lasting
        leadership
        > beyond party politics."
        >
        > Barr cited Paul's 1987 letter to then-GOP Chairman Frank
        Fahrenkopf, in
        > which Paul stated that, "after years of trying to work through the
        > Republican Party both in and out of government. . . concluded that
        efforts
        > must be carried on outside the Republican Party."
        >
        > Though recognizing Paul's personal investment in the Republican
        Party and
        > his recent attempts to reform the party from inside, Barr said he
        disagreed
        > with Paul's strategy. "Better options remain that will carry a
        message of
        > liberty onto the ballot in November and beyond," Barr stated,
        adding at a
        > news conference called today at the National Press Club,
        that "change in
        > politics and public policy in America cannot and will not be done
        from
        > within the current, two-party system."
        >
        > Barr continued, "'The status quo will not change the status quo'
        and impact
        > comes entirely from gaining votes in the General Election." That is
        why Barr
        > said he would remain focused on the Libertarian Party's electoral
        effort and
        > clear message, and why he invited Paul to join him.
        >
        > "While you declined my offer to seek the Libertarian presidential
        nomination
        > many months ago, I ask that you seriously consider this final offer
        as an
        > opportunity to show true, lasting leadership beyond party
        politics," Barr
        > stated in his letter to Paul.
        >
        > Barr's running mate, Wayne Allyn Root, expressed support: "As the
        > Libertarian Party vice presidential nominee, I believe in one thing
        above
        > all else-principle. There can be no compromise on the ideals of
        limited
        > government, lower taxes, lower spending, and more freedom for the
        American
        > people. Those are the principles to which I've dedicated my life.
        The GOP
        > and Democratic candidates only give lip service-at best-to these
        ideals and
        > principles. It is only an act at election time every four years."
        >
        > "I want to end the charade once and for all," Root continued. "I am
        willing
        > to sacrifice anything to advance the cause of liberty, freedom,
        smaller
        > government and to enable the American taxpayer to keep more of
        their own
        > money and property. Understanding Dr. Ron Paul's reputation and name
        > recognition in the freedom movement, I am willing to step aside as
        > Libertarian vice presidential candidate if he would be willing to
        take my
        > place. I will pledge to work day and night, just as I have as the
        vice
        > presidential nominee, to support Dr. Paul. I believe this is a
        wonderful
        > opportunity for the Libertarian and freedom movements. I encourage
        Dr. Paul
        > to accept Congressman Barr's offer. The campaign is making this
        offer
        > because we believe there is no sacrifice too large when it comes to
        > improving the lives of the American people and American taxpayers."
        >
        > Barr's letter to Paul can be found here
        > <http://cp20.com/Tracking/t.c?1RN5-27Dd-5bDGv0> .
        >
        > Paul's letter to the GOP can be found here
        > <http://cp20.com/Tracking/t.c?1RN5-27De-5bDGv1> .
        >
        > Libertarian Party presidential candidate Bob Barr represented the
        7th
        > District of Georgia in the U. S. House of Representatives from 1995
        to 2003.
        >
        > <http://cp20.com/Tracking/t.c?1RN5-27Df-5bDGv2>
        >
        > To donate by mail:
        >
        > Barr 2008 Presidential Committee
        > P.O. Box 725007
        > Atlanta, GA 31139
        >
        > To donate by phone:
        >
        > Call 1-800-Bob-Barr
        >
        > Paid for by Barr 2008 Presidential Committee.
        >
        > Federal law requires us to report the name, address, and name of
        employer
        > and occupation for any individual whose aggregate contributions
        total over
        > $200 in a calendar year. Corporate contributions and gifts from
        foreign
        > nationals are prohibited. Personal Credit Card gifts only.
        Contributions are
        > not tax deductible for income tax purposes. Limit of $2,300 per
        person per
        > election and $4,600 per couple if signed by both parties and drawn
        on a
        > jointly held bank account.
        >
        >
        > You are subscribed to this newsletter as hclpchair@... Please click
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        -5bDGv7>
        >
      • George Blumel
        The misconception that Mr Johnson expresses below needs to be put in perspective. I know of NO RLCer who is slavish to anything or anybody, much less a
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008

          The misconception that Mr Johnson expresses below needs to be put in perspective.  I know of NO RLCer who is “slavish” to anything or anybody, much less a political party; no one except Mr Johnson has ever suggested anything like “my party, right or wrong..”  We are part of the party, not subject to it. We are helping to set the agenda in a libertarian direction and we are succeeding –check out the 2008 Platform and compare it to the 2004 version as one example already.  Mr Johnson and some others seem to think that the party sends out directives and we all jump to it.  They should get involved and find out how the real world works.  We have a lot to do and a long way to go and we don’t need this misinformed negativity in our way. Bring your libertarian principles, knowledge and understanding of our Constitutional Republic and get busy educating and influencing within the party. That’s our purpose and goal.  –Geo.

           

           


          From: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Johnson
          Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 9:50 PM
          To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

           

          On Sunday 14 September 2008 03:46:38 pm George Blumel wrote:

          > The post by McLenden belongs on the LP site, not the RLC group. This is
          > not appropriate for a Republican group. What are you thinking? Anything
          > you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly equal to
          > support for the Obama bin Biden ticket.

          On the other hand, slavish devotion to the Republican Party does nothing to
          advance liberty. How can we possibly influence the party leadership when it
          knows we'll roll over and support whatever statist manages to get on the
          ticket? The attitude of "my party right or wrong" has to go. When the party
          is wrong we must not be afraid to tell it is wrong.

          --
          David Johnson

        • David Johnson
          ... My slavish statement was directed towards the following quote: Anything you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly equal to support for
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008
            > The misconception that Mr Johnson expresses below needs to be put in
            > perspective. I know of NO RLCer who is "slavish" to anything or anybody,
            > much less a political party; no one except Mr Johnson has ever suggested
            > anything like "my party, right or wrong.." We are part of the party, not
            > subject to it. We are helping to set the agenda in a libertarian direction
            > and we are succeeding -check out the 2008 Platform and compare it to the
            > 2004 version as one example already. Mr Johnson and some others seem to
            > think that the party sends out directives and we all jump to it. They
            > should get involved and find out how the real world works. We have a lot
            > to do and a long way to go and we don't need this misinformed negativity
            > in our way. Bring your libertarian principles, knowledge and
            > understanding of our Constitutional Republic and get busy educating and
            > influencing within the party. That's our purpose and goal. -Geo.

            My "slavish" statement was directed towards the following quote:

            "Anything you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly
            equal to support for the Obama bin Biden ticket."

            I interpret this as meaning I must support whoever the party nominates no
            matter what. I cannot do that. I won't work against McCain, but neither
            can I actively campaign for him. Don't lay a guilt trip on me about
            enabling Obama.

            The only power we have as the RLC is our reputation and our support of
            libertarian candidates. But we lose our reputation when we support
            non-libertarian candidates. Telling us all to shut up and back McCain
            emasculates us. It sending a clear signal to the party leadership that we
            will support anyone they tell us to. We shouldn't be supporting Barr, but
            neither should we be elbowing our way to the front of McCain's
            cheerleading section.

            David Johnson

            p.s. Regarding that original post urging Ron Paul to accept Barr's offer,
            I think it's a silly idea am I am in no way endorsing it.
          • George Blumel
            Actions have consequences: if you refuse to support the candidate of your own professed party, then you are indeed enabling the opponent. McCain was almost
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008

              Actions have consequences: if you refuse to support the candidate of your own professed party, then you are indeed enabling the opponent.  McCain was almost surely not the first choice for president of any RLCer. But when it comes down to two, us and them, it is either us or them. Simple.  Now, looking forward, let’s work hard and make sure that next time the primary winner is as libertarian a candidate as possible.  There are some coming up the line and they need our support.  Look at McCain’s advisors –there are some of our people up there notably Steve Forbes. Now let’s drop this discussion and get to work helping McCain-Palin keep Obama bin Biden from appointing to the Supreme Court those who will take away our Constitution completely (among other devastating anti-libertarian actions.).                         -Geo

               


              From: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Johnson
              Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 2:27 PM
              To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

               

              > The misconception that Mr Johnson expresses below needs to be put in

              > perspective. I know of NO RLCer who is "slavish" to anything or
              anybody,
              > much less a political party; no one except Mr Johnson has ever suggested
              > anything like "my party, right or wrong.." We are part of the party,
              not
              > subject to it. We are helping to set the agenda in a libertarian direction
              > and we are succeeding -check out the 2008 Platform and compare it to the
              > 2004 version as one example already. Mr Johnson and some others seem to
              > think that the party sends out directives and we all jump to it. They
              > should get involved and find out how the real world works. We have a lot
              > to do and a long way to go and we don't need this misinformed negativity
              > in our way. Bring your libertarian principles, knowledge and
              > understanding of our Constitutional
              Republic and get busy educating and
              > influencing within the party. That's our purpose and goal. -Geo.

              My "slavish" statement was directed towards the following quote:

              "Anything you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly
              equal to support for the Obama bin Biden ticket."

              I interpret this as meaning I must support whoever the party nominates no
              matter what. I cannot do that. I won't work against McCain, but neither
              can I actively campaign for him. Don't lay a guilt trip on me about
              enabling Obama.

              The only power we have as the RLC is our reputation and our support of
              libertarian candidates. But we lose our reputation when we support
              non-libertarian candidates. Telling us all to shut up and back McCain
              emasculates us. It sending a clear signal to the party leadership that we
              will support anyone they tell us to. We shouldn't be supporting Barr, but
              neither should we be elbowing our way to the front of McCain's
              cheerleading section.

              David Johnson

              p.s. Regarding that original post urging Ron Paul to accept Barr's offer,
              I think it's a silly idea am I am in no way endorsing it.

            • westmiller@aol.com
              ... I have warned Guy McLendon about posting solicitations for LP projects or campaigns on RLC sites ... but it looks like we ll have to put him on moderated
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008
                George Blumel wrote:
                > The post by McLenden belongs on the LP site ...

                I have warned Guy McLendon about posting solicitations
                for LP projects or campaigns on RLC sites ... but it looks like
                we'll have to put him on moderated mode. We have absolutely
                no responsibility to facilitate any LP objectives.

                But, do note that the RLC has no "litmus test" for becoming
                a member and participating in this forum. We have a distinct
                membership class ("Associate Member") for those who are
                not "affiliated" with the GOP. Those members CANNOT be
                RLC officers or delegates, nor hold any official position in
                the RLC, but they can participate in RLC forums.

                Posted by: "David Johnson"
                > How can we possibly influence the party leadership when it
                > knows we'll roll over and support whatever statist ...

                Be careful about the "we" in this sentence. The RLC does
                not monitor, enforce, nor purge members who cast a ballot
                for non-GOP candidates (nor those who participate in any
                other political party ... ie: "Associates").

                The RLC itself, a different "we", does not ever endorse
                any candidate *in opposition to a formal GOP candidate*,
                but we do - and have - endorsed LP candidates in races
                where there is no GOP nominee. Even if we do not formally
                endorsed an official GOP nominee, *as an organization*
                we implicitly favor GOP candidates over any alternatives.

                The RLC itself *never* contributes to any campaign,
                GOP or otherwise. That function is exclusive to RLCUSA-
                PAC, which is "affiliated with" the RLC, but has a separate
                Board and checking account.

                > ... The attitude of "my party right or wrong" has to go.
                > When the party is wrong we must not be afraid to tell
                > it is wrong.
                That's the whole purpose of the RLC: to advance liberty
                ideals in the GOP ... frequently in direct opposition to the
                party platform and official GOP candidate positions.

                But, in order to work *within* the party, we almost never
                make official RLC statements in opposition to any GOP
                candidate as an individual. Members and officers are free
                to criticize any candidate they please, but *may not do
                so as an official RLC representative* in a public forum.

                RLC-Action is a *private* forum, for members-only, but
                we discourage any kind of personal attacks on anyone,
                candidate or not. Also bear in mind that this forum is
                for activism, NOT for discussion of candidates or issues.
                Queries about RLC policy are welcome.

                Bill




                **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
                plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
                (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
              • John Conway
                Boil all the fat off of it, and this forum should never be used to denigrate the Republican Party. That only causes them to circle the wagons against the
                Message 7 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008
                      Boil all the fat off of it, and this forum should never be used to denigrate the Republican Party.  That only causes them to circle the wagons against the perceived threat.  We're trying to help them re-discover their roots, not put them out of business.  The rank and file there are just a susceptible to NEOCON propaganda as the rest of the country.  We are the light for them.  The rank and file there are not collectivist. However, they are for the most part uninformede.  Therefore, they are our allies.  We are the light.
                   
                  In Liberty,
                  John Conway

                  Republican Liberty Caucus
                  "Pursuing libertarianism within the GOP since 1990"


                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: George Blumel <gblumel@...>
                  To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 1:39:09 PM
                  Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

                  The misconception that Mr Johnson expresses below needs to be put in perspective.  I know of NO RLCer who is “slavish” to anything or anybody, much less a political party; no one except Mr Johnson has ever suggested anything like “my party, right or wrong..”  We are part of the party, not subject to it. We are helping to set the agenda in a libertarian direction and we are succeeding –check out the 2008 Platform and compare it to the 2004 version as one example already.  Mr Johnson and some others seem to think that the party sends out directives and we all jump to it.  They should get involved and find out how the real world works.  We have a lot to do and a long way to go and we don’t need this misinformed negativity in our way. Bring your libertarian principles, knowledge and understanding of our Constitutional Republic and get busy educating and influencing within the party. That’s our purpose and goal.  –Geo.

                   

                   


                  From: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of David Johnson
                  Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 9:50 PM
                  To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                  Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

                   

                  On Sunday 14 September 2008 03:46:38 pm George Blumel wrote:

                  > The post by McLenden belongs on the LP site, not the RLC group. This is
                  > not appropriate for a Republican group. What are you thinking? Anything
                  > you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly equal to
                  > support for the Obama bin Biden ticket.

                  On the other hand, slavish devotion to the Republican Party does nothing to
                  advance liberty. How can we possibly influence the party leadership when it
                  knows we'll roll over and support whatever statist manages to get on the
                  ticket? The attitude of "my party right or wrong" has to go. When the party
                  is wrong we must not be afraid to tell it is wrong.

                  --
                  David Johnson


                • Mr geoff broughton
                  I hate to agree with George on just about anything. But he is right, this is a Republican group. We will all make our own choice when we go to cast our
                  Message 8 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008
                    I hate to agree with George on just about anything.  But he is right, this is a Republican group.  We will all make our own choice when we go to cast our ballot for president, i am sure that most of us who came to the Republican party because of Dr. Paul, will feel entirely different about our choices then some others, but there are many other, more appropriate discussion boards to take up the 3rd party cause on.

                    I hate to derail a discussion like this, but has anyone reached out to homeschoolers?  I would bet money that most people who do homeschooling vote Republican, as votes about the topic usually fall along party lines. 

                    We were brainstorming about ways we could get more awareness out there about Liberty, and coming up with some curriculum for homeschoolers was mentioned. 

                    Geoff

                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: George Blumel <gblumel@...>
                    To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 1:28:06 PM
                    Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

                    Actions have consequences: if you refuse to support the candidate of your own professed party, then you are indeed enabling the opponent.  McCain was almost surely not the first choice for president of any RLCer. But when it comes down to two, us and them, it is either us or them. Simple.  Now, looking forward, let’s work hard and make sure that next time the primary winner is as libertarian a candidate as possible.  There are some coming up the line and they need our support.  Look at McCain’s advisors –there are some of our people up there notably Steve Forbes. Now let’s drop this discussion and get to work helping McCain-Palin keep Obama bin Biden from appointing to the Supreme Court those who will take away our Constitution completely (among other devastating anti-libertarian actions.).                         -Geo

                     


                    From: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of David Johnson
                    Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 2:27 PM
                    To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                    Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

                     

                    > The misconception that Mr Johnson expresses below needs to be put in

                    > perspective. I know of NO RLCer who is "slavish" to anything or
                    anybody,
                    > much less a political party; no one except Mr Johnson has ever suggested
                    > anything like "my party, right or wrong.." We are part of the party,
                    not
                    > subject to it. We are helping to set the agenda in a libertarian direction
                    > and we are succeeding -check out the 2008 Platform and compare it to the
                    > 2004 version as one example already. Mr Johnson and some others seem to
                    > think that the party sends out directives and we all jump to it. They
                    > should get involved and find out how the real world works. We have a lot
                    > to do and a long way to go and we don't need this misinformed negativity
                    > in our way. Bring your libertarian principles, knowledge and
                    > understanding of our Constitutional
                    Republic and get busy educating and
                    > influencing within the party. That's our purpose and goal. -Geo.

                    My "slavish" statement was directed towards the following quote:

                    "Anything you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly
                    equal to support for the Obama bin Biden ticket."

                    I interpret this as meaning I must support whoever the party nominates no
                    matter what. I cannot do that. I won't work against McCain, but neither
                    can I actively campaign for him. Don't lay a guilt trip on me about
                    enabling Obama.

                    The only power we have as the RLC is our reputation and our support of
                    libertarian candidates. But we lose our reputation when we support
                    non-libertarian candidates. Telling us all to shut up and back McCain
                    emasculates us. It sending a clear signal to the party leadership that we
                    will support anyone they tell us to. We shouldn't be supporting Barr, but
                    neither should we be elbowing our way to the front of McCain's
                    cheerleading section.

                    David Johnson

                    p.s. Regarding that original post urging Ron Paul to accept Barr's offer,
                    I think it's a silly idea am I am in no way endorsing it.


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