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RE: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

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  • George Blumel
    The post by McLenden belongs on the LP site, not the RLC group. This is not appropriate for a Republican group. What are you thinking? Anything you do to
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 14, 2008
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      The post by McLenden belongs on the LP site, not the RLC group.  This is not appropriate for a Republican group. What are you thinking?  Anything you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly equal to support for the Obama bin Biden ticket.  Bob Barr is not showing leadership –he is trying to lead the Ron Paul cultists down the path of opposition to the Republican candidates. Barr-Paul should get together and call themselves the Revanchist ticket. They both are losers in Republican primaries and all they want is revenge for personal reasons and to hell with the Republic!

       

      The Republican Liberty Caucus is making headway in education and influence within a major party where there is an opportunity to succeed and really make a difference for the future of freedom. Guy McLendon belongs in the LP, not the GOP, for this ultimately pro-Obama idea.   Surely you are aware of his Marxist background and goals.

       

      Palin, Sanford , Jindal, Hensarling, Flake, Pence and about 50 others (see the Republican Study Committee) are the future of the party –they will instill our libertarian ideals in the government –but they need support. Ron Paul lost.  The fight for liberty goes on…  -Geo.


      From: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Guy McLendon
      Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 7:04 PM
      To: ronpaul-490@...; ronpaul-1655@...; RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com; RLCTX@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

       

      There is still an opportunity for Ron Paul to be on the ballot in November 2008.  Please call Ron’s office, and ask him to accept Bob Barr’s offer.

       

      Guy McLendon

       


      From: Russ Verney, BobBarr2008. com [mailto:info@ bobbarr2008. com]
      Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 1:58 PM
      To: hclpchair@lptexas. org
      Subject: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

       

      Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

      Asks Paul to Run as his Vice President

      Atlanta , GA - Bob Barr, the Libertarian Party nominee for president, has invited GOP Congressman Ron Paul to be his running mate in the upcoming election. In a letter sent to Paul, Barr called Paul one of the "few American patriots" who exist in today's society, and asked him to "seriously consider this final offer as an opportunity to show true, lasting leadership beyond party politics."

      Barr cited Paul's 1987 letter to then-GOP Chairman Frank Fahrenkopf, in which Paul stated that, "after years of trying to work through the Republican Party both in and out of government. . . concluded that efforts must be carried on outside the Republican Party."

      Though recognizing Paul's personal investment in the Republican Party and his recent attempts to reform the party from inside, Barr said he disagreed with Paul's strategy. "Better options remain that will carry a message of liberty onto the ballot in November and beyond," Barr stated, adding at a news conference called today at the National Press Club, that "change in politics and public policy in America cannot and will not be done from within the current, two-party system."

      Barr continued, "'The status quo will not change the status quo' and impact comes entirely from gaining votes in the General Election." That is why Barr said he would remain focused on the Libertarian Party's electoral effort and clear message, and why he invited Paul to join him.

      "While you declined my offer to seek the Libertarian presidential nomination many months ago, I ask that you seriously consider this final offer as an opportunity to show true, lasting leadership beyond party politics," Barr stated in his letter to Paul.

      Barr's running mate, Wayne Allyn Root, expressed support: "As the Libertarian Party vice presidential nominee, I believe in one thing above all else-principle. There can be no compromise on the ideals of limited government, lower taxes, lower spending, and more freedom for the American people. Those are the principles to which I've dedicated my life. The GOP and Democratic candidates only give lip service-at best-to these ideals and principles. It is only an act at election time every four years."

      "I want to end the charade once and for all," Root continued. "I am willing to sacrifice anything to advance the cause of liberty, freedom, smaller government and to enable the American taxpayer to keep more of their own money and property. Understanding Dr. Ron Paul's reputation and name recognition in the freedom movement, I am willing to step aside as Libertarian vice presidential candidate if he would be willing to take my place. I will pledge to work day and night, just as I have as the vice presidential nominee, to support Dr. Paul. I believe this is a wonderful opportunity for the Libertarian and freedom movements. I encourage Dr. Paul to accept Congressman Barr's offer. The campaign is making this offer because we believe there is no sacrifice too large when it comes to improving the lives of the American people and American taxpayers."

      Barr's letter to Paul can be found here.

      Paul's letter to the GOP can be found here.

      Libertarian Party presidential candidate Bob Barr represented the 7th District of Georgia in the U. S. House of Representatives from 1995 to 2003.

      To donate by mail:

      Barr 2008 Presidential Committee
      P.O. Box 725007
      Atlanta , GA 31139

      To donate by phone:

      Call 1-800-Bob-Barr

      Paid for by Barr 2008 Presidential Committee.

      Federal law requires us to report the name, address, and name of employer and occupation for any individual whose aggregate contributions total over $200 in a calendar year. Corporate contributions and gifts from foreign nationals are prohibited. Personal Credit Card gifts only. Contributions are not tax deductible for income tax purposes. Limit of $2,300 per person per election and $4,600 per couple if signed by both parties and drawn on a jointly held bank account.


      You are subscribed to this newsletter as hclpchair@lptexas. org. Please click here to modify your message preferences or to unsubscribe from any future mailings. We will respect all unsubscribe requests.


    • David Johnson
      ... On the other hand, slavish devotion to the Republican Party does nothing to advance liberty. How can we possibly influence the party leadership when it
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 14, 2008
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        On Sunday 14 September 2008 03:46:38 pm George Blumel wrote:
        > The post by McLenden belongs on the LP site, not the RLC group. This is
        > not appropriate for a Republican group. What are you thinking? Anything
        > you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly equal to
        > support for the Obama bin Biden ticket.

        On the other hand, slavish devotion to the Republican Party does nothing to
        advance liberty. How can we possibly influence the party leadership when it
        knows we'll roll over and support whatever statist manages to get on the
        ticket? The attitude of "my party right or wrong" has to go. When the party
        is wrong we must not be afraid to tell it is wrong.

        --
        David Johnson
      • David Baumgardner
        However, if the party sees the caucus support another party over the Republicans. it will dismiss the caucus as just a tool for the LP. RLC candidates will
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 14, 2008
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          However, if the party sees the caucus support another party over the Republicans.  it will dismiss the caucus as just a tool for the LP.  RLC candidates will never get the Republicam support they need.  The party will rightly suggest that liberty-Republicans aren't true Republicans because they support the LP when they don't get their way.
           
          It is not a matter of rolling over.  It is a matter of gaining credibility and applying the force within the Republican Party to get our agenda recognized and respected.  That doesn't happen by bailing the first sign of not getting our way. 




          To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
          From: david@...
          Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 18:49:54 -0700
          Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement


          On Sunday 14 September 2008 03:46:38 pm George Blumel wrote:
          > The post by McLenden belongs on the LP site, not the RLC group. This is
          > not appropriate for a Republican group. What are you thinking? Anything
          > you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly equal to
          > support for the Obama bin Biden ticket.

          On the other hand, slavish devotion to the Republican Party does nothing to
          advance liberty. How can we possibly influence the party leadership when it
          knows we'll roll over and support whatever statist manages to get on the
          ticket? The attitude of "my party right or wrong" has to go. When the party
          is wrong we must not be afraid to tell it is wrong.

          --
          David Johnson



          See how Windows Mobile brings your life together—at home, work, or on the go. See Now
        • David Baumgardner
          However, if the party sees the caucus support another party over the Republicans. it will dismiss the caucus as just a tool for the LP. RLC candidates will
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 14, 2008
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            However, if the party sees the caucus support another party over the Republicans.  it will dismiss the caucus as just a tool for the LP.  RLC candidates will never get the Republicam support they need.  The party will rightly suggest that liberty-Republicans aren't true Republicans because they support the LP when they don't get their way.
             
            It is not a matter of rolling over.  It is a matter of gaining credibility and applying the force within the Republican Party to get our agenda recognized and respected.  That doesn't happen by bailing the first sign of not getting our way. 




            To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
            From: david@...
            Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 18:49:54 -0700
            Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement


            On Sunday 14 September 2008 03:46:38 pm George Blumel wrote:
            > The post by McLenden belongs on the LP site, not the RLC group. This is
            > not appropriate for a Republican group. What are you thinking? Anything
            > you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly equal to
            > support for the Obama bin Biden ticket.

            On the other hand, slavish devotion to the Republican Party does nothing to
            advance liberty. How can we possibly influence the party leadership when it
            knows we'll roll over and support whatever statist manages to get on the
            ticket? The attitude of "my party right or wrong" has to go. When the party
            is wrong we must not be afraid to tell it is wrong.

            --
            David Johnson



            Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live. See Now
          • John Conway
            We need a meeting. We shouldn t even be talking about any other party here. The RLC is a tool for change, one of many at our disposal. Lets play the part
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 14, 2008
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              We need a meeting.  We shouldn't even be talking about any other party here.  The RLC is a tool for change, one of many at our disposal.
              Lets play the part here.  Start another forum and change your E address for other discussions.  Don't think for one minute that we aren't being monitored by others.
               
              In Liberty,
              John Conway

              Republican Liberty Caucus
              "Pursuing libertarianism within the GOP since 1990"


              ----- Original Message ----
              From: David Baumgardner <dpbaumgardner@...>
              To: rlc-action@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 10:39:10 PM
              Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

              However, if the party sees the caucus support another party over the Republicans.  it will dismiss the caucus as just a tool for the LP.  RLC candidates will never get the Republicam support they need.  The party will rightly suggest that liberty-Republicans aren't true Republicans because they support the LP when they don't get their way.
               
              It is not a matter of rolling over.  It is a matter of gaining credibility and applying the force within the Republican Party to get our agenda recognized and respected.  That doesn't happen by bailing the first sign of not getting our way. 




              To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
              From: david@usermode. org
              Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 18:49:54 -0700
              Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement


              On Sunday 14 September 2008 03:46:38 pm George Blumel wrote:
              > The post by McLenden belongs on the LP site, not the RLC group. This is
              > not appropriate for a Republican group. What are you thinking? Anything
              > you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly equal to
              > support for the Obama bin Biden ticket.

              On the other hand, slavish devotion to the Republican Party does nothing to
              advance liberty. How can we possibly influence the party leadership when it
              knows we'll roll over and support whatever statist manages to get on the
              ticket? The attitude of "my party right or wrong" has to go. When the party
              is wrong we must not be afraid to tell it is wrong.

              --
              David Johnson



              See how Windows Mobile brings your life together—at home, work, or on the go. See Now

            • Louis William Rose
              Snnnnoooorrrrrrrrrrr... ... November ... offer. ... president, has ... upcoming ... to seriously ... leadership ... Fahrenkopf, in ... efforts ... Party and
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008
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                Snnnnoooorrrrrrrrrrr...

                --- In RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com, "Guy McLendon" <guy@...> wrote:
                >
                > There is still an opportunity for Ron Paul to be on the ballot in
                November
                > 2008. Please call Ron's office, and ask him to accept Bob Barr's
                offer.
                >
                >
                >
                > Guy McLendon
                >
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: Russ Verney, BobBarr2008.com [mailto:info@...]
                > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 1:58 PM
                > To: hclpchair@...
                > Subject: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement
                >
                >
                >
                > Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement
                >
                > Asks Paul to Run as his Vice President
                >
                > Atlanta, GA - Bob Barr, the Libertarian Party nominee for
                president, has
                > invited GOP Congressman Ron Paul to be his running mate in the
                upcoming
                > election. In a letter sent to Paul, Barr called Paul one of the "few
                > American patriots" who exist in today's society, and asked him
                to "seriously
                > consider this final offer as an opportunity to show true, lasting
                leadership
                > beyond party politics."
                >
                > Barr cited Paul's 1987 letter to then-GOP Chairman Frank
                Fahrenkopf, in
                > which Paul stated that, "after years of trying to work through the
                > Republican Party both in and out of government. . . concluded that
                efforts
                > must be carried on outside the Republican Party."
                >
                > Though recognizing Paul's personal investment in the Republican
                Party and
                > his recent attempts to reform the party from inside, Barr said he
                disagreed
                > with Paul's strategy. "Better options remain that will carry a
                message of
                > liberty onto the ballot in November and beyond," Barr stated,
                adding at a
                > news conference called today at the National Press Club,
                that "change in
                > politics and public policy in America cannot and will not be done
                from
                > within the current, two-party system."
                >
                > Barr continued, "'The status quo will not change the status quo'
                and impact
                > comes entirely from gaining votes in the General Election." That is
                why Barr
                > said he would remain focused on the Libertarian Party's electoral
                effort and
                > clear message, and why he invited Paul to join him.
                >
                > "While you declined my offer to seek the Libertarian presidential
                nomination
                > many months ago, I ask that you seriously consider this final offer
                as an
                > opportunity to show true, lasting leadership beyond party
                politics," Barr
                > stated in his letter to Paul.
                >
                > Barr's running mate, Wayne Allyn Root, expressed support: "As the
                > Libertarian Party vice presidential nominee, I believe in one thing
                above
                > all else-principle. There can be no compromise on the ideals of
                limited
                > government, lower taxes, lower spending, and more freedom for the
                American
                > people. Those are the principles to which I've dedicated my life.
                The GOP
                > and Democratic candidates only give lip service-at best-to these
                ideals and
                > principles. It is only an act at election time every four years."
                >
                > "I want to end the charade once and for all," Root continued. "I am
                willing
                > to sacrifice anything to advance the cause of liberty, freedom,
                smaller
                > government and to enable the American taxpayer to keep more of
                their own
                > money and property. Understanding Dr. Ron Paul's reputation and name
                > recognition in the freedom movement, I am willing to step aside as
                > Libertarian vice presidential candidate if he would be willing to
                take my
                > place. I will pledge to work day and night, just as I have as the
                vice
                > presidential nominee, to support Dr. Paul. I believe this is a
                wonderful
                > opportunity for the Libertarian and freedom movements. I encourage
                Dr. Paul
                > to accept Congressman Barr's offer. The campaign is making this
                offer
                > because we believe there is no sacrifice too large when it comes to
                > improving the lives of the American people and American taxpayers."
                >
                > Barr's letter to Paul can be found here
                > <http://cp20.com/Tracking/t.c?1RN5-27Dd-5bDGv0> .
                >
                > Paul's letter to the GOP can be found here
                > <http://cp20.com/Tracking/t.c?1RN5-27De-5bDGv1> .
                >
                > Libertarian Party presidential candidate Bob Barr represented the
                7th
                > District of Georgia in the U. S. House of Representatives from 1995
                to 2003.
                >
                > <http://cp20.com/Tracking/t.c?1RN5-27Df-5bDGv2>
                >
                > To donate by mail:
                >
                > Barr 2008 Presidential Committee
                > P.O. Box 725007
                > Atlanta, GA 31139
                >
                > To donate by phone:
                >
                > Call 1-800-Bob-Barr
                >
                > Paid for by Barr 2008 Presidential Committee.
                >
                > Federal law requires us to report the name, address, and name of
                employer
                > and occupation for any individual whose aggregate contributions
                total over
                > $200 in a calendar year. Corporate contributions and gifts from
                foreign
                > nationals are prohibited. Personal Credit Card gifts only.
                Contributions are
                > not tax deductible for income tax purposes. Limit of $2,300 per
                person per
                > election and $4,600 per couple if signed by both parties and drawn
                on a
                > jointly held bank account.
                >
                >
                > You are subscribed to this newsletter as hclpchair@... Please click
                > here <http://cp20.com/Tracking/t.fo?1RN5--HGA-5bDGv0> to modify
                your
                > message preferences or to unsubscribe from any future mailings. We
                will
                > respect all unsubscribe requests.
                >
                > _____
                >
                >
                > <http://www.campaigner.com/campaignerPro.php?
                utm_source=footer&utm_medium=em
                > ail&utm_campaign=ProPoweredBy> <http://cp20.com/Tracking/t.o?1RN5-
                -5bDGv7>
                >
              • George Blumel
                The misconception that Mr Johnson expresses below needs to be put in perspective. I know of NO RLCer who is slavish to anything or anybody, much less a
                Message 7 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008
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                  The misconception that Mr Johnson expresses below needs to be put in perspective.  I know of NO RLCer who is “slavish” to anything or anybody, much less a political party; no one except Mr Johnson has ever suggested anything like “my party, right or wrong..”  We are part of the party, not subject to it. We are helping to set the agenda in a libertarian direction and we are succeeding –check out the 2008 Platform and compare it to the 2004 version as one example already.  Mr Johnson and some others seem to think that the party sends out directives and we all jump to it.  They should get involved and find out how the real world works.  We have a lot to do and a long way to go and we don’t need this misinformed negativity in our way. Bring your libertarian principles, knowledge and understanding of our Constitutional Republic and get busy educating and influencing within the party. That’s our purpose and goal.  –Geo.

                   

                   


                  From: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Johnson
                  Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 9:50 PM
                  To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

                   

                  On Sunday 14 September 2008 03:46:38 pm George Blumel wrote:

                  > The post by McLenden belongs on the LP site, not the RLC group. This is
                  > not appropriate for a Republican group. What are you thinking? Anything
                  > you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly equal to
                  > support for the Obama bin Biden ticket.

                  On the other hand, slavish devotion to the Republican Party does nothing to
                  advance liberty. How can we possibly influence the party leadership when it
                  knows we'll roll over and support whatever statist manages to get on the
                  ticket? The attitude of "my party right or wrong" has to go. When the party
                  is wrong we must not be afraid to tell it is wrong.

                  --
                  David Johnson

                • David Johnson
                  ... My slavish statement was directed towards the following quote: Anything you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly equal to support for
                  Message 8 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008
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                    > The misconception that Mr Johnson expresses below needs to be put in
                    > perspective. I know of NO RLCer who is "slavish" to anything or anybody,
                    > much less a political party; no one except Mr Johnson has ever suggested
                    > anything like "my party, right or wrong.." We are part of the party, not
                    > subject to it. We are helping to set the agenda in a libertarian direction
                    > and we are succeeding -check out the 2008 Platform and compare it to the
                    > 2004 version as one example already. Mr Johnson and some others seem to
                    > think that the party sends out directives and we all jump to it. They
                    > should get involved and find out how the real world works. We have a lot
                    > to do and a long way to go and we don't need this misinformed negativity
                    > in our way. Bring your libertarian principles, knowledge and
                    > understanding of our Constitutional Republic and get busy educating and
                    > influencing within the party. That's our purpose and goal. -Geo.

                    My "slavish" statement was directed towards the following quote:

                    "Anything you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly
                    equal to support for the Obama bin Biden ticket."

                    I interpret this as meaning I must support whoever the party nominates no
                    matter what. I cannot do that. I won't work against McCain, but neither
                    can I actively campaign for him. Don't lay a guilt trip on me about
                    enabling Obama.

                    The only power we have as the RLC is our reputation and our support of
                    libertarian candidates. But we lose our reputation when we support
                    non-libertarian candidates. Telling us all to shut up and back McCain
                    emasculates us. It sending a clear signal to the party leadership that we
                    will support anyone they tell us to. We shouldn't be supporting Barr, but
                    neither should we be elbowing our way to the front of McCain's
                    cheerleading section.

                    David Johnson

                    p.s. Regarding that original post urging Ron Paul to accept Barr's offer,
                    I think it's a silly idea am I am in no way endorsing it.
                  • George Blumel
                    Actions have consequences: if you refuse to support the candidate of your own professed party, then you are indeed enabling the opponent. McCain was almost
                    Message 9 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008
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                      Actions have consequences: if you refuse to support the candidate of your own professed party, then you are indeed enabling the opponent.  McCain was almost surely not the first choice for president of any RLCer. But when it comes down to two, us and them, it is either us or them. Simple.  Now, looking forward, let’s work hard and make sure that next time the primary winner is as libertarian a candidate as possible.  There are some coming up the line and they need our support.  Look at McCain’s advisors –there are some of our people up there notably Steve Forbes. Now let’s drop this discussion and get to work helping McCain-Palin keep Obama bin Biden from appointing to the Supreme Court those who will take away our Constitution completely (among other devastating anti-libertarian actions.).                         -Geo

                       


                      From: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Johnson
                      Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 2:27 PM
                      To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

                       

                      > The misconception that Mr Johnson expresses below needs to be put in

                      > perspective. I know of NO RLCer who is "slavish" to anything or
                      anybody,
                      > much less a political party; no one except Mr Johnson has ever suggested
                      > anything like "my party, right or wrong.." We are part of the party,
                      not
                      > subject to it. We are helping to set the agenda in a libertarian direction
                      > and we are succeeding -check out the 2008 Platform and compare it to the
                      > 2004 version as one example already. Mr Johnson and some others seem to
                      > think that the party sends out directives and we all jump to it. They
                      > should get involved and find out how the real world works. We have a lot
                      > to do and a long way to go and we don't need this misinformed negativity
                      > in our way. Bring your libertarian principles, knowledge and
                      > understanding of our Constitutional
                      Republic and get busy educating and
                      > influencing within the party. That's our purpose and goal. -Geo.

                      My "slavish" statement was directed towards the following quote:

                      "Anything you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly
                      equal to support for the Obama bin Biden ticket."

                      I interpret this as meaning I must support whoever the party nominates no
                      matter what. I cannot do that. I won't work against McCain, but neither
                      can I actively campaign for him. Don't lay a guilt trip on me about
                      enabling Obama.

                      The only power we have as the RLC is our reputation and our support of
                      libertarian candidates. But we lose our reputation when we support
                      non-libertarian candidates. Telling us all to shut up and back McCain
                      emasculates us. It sending a clear signal to the party leadership that we
                      will support anyone they tell us to. We shouldn't be supporting Barr, but
                      neither should we be elbowing our way to the front of McCain's
                      cheerleading section.

                      David Johnson

                      p.s. Regarding that original post urging Ron Paul to accept Barr's offer,
                      I think it's a silly idea am I am in no way endorsing it.

                    • westmiller@aol.com
                      ... I have warned Guy McLendon about posting solicitations for LP projects or campaigns on RLC sites ... but it looks like we ll have to put him on moderated
                      Message 10 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008
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                        George Blumel wrote:
                        > The post by McLenden belongs on the LP site ...

                        I have warned Guy McLendon about posting solicitations
                        for LP projects or campaigns on RLC sites ... but it looks like
                        we'll have to put him on moderated mode. We have absolutely
                        no responsibility to facilitate any LP objectives.

                        But, do note that the RLC has no "litmus test" for becoming
                        a member and participating in this forum. We have a distinct
                        membership class ("Associate Member") for those who are
                        not "affiliated" with the GOP. Those members CANNOT be
                        RLC officers or delegates, nor hold any official position in
                        the RLC, but they can participate in RLC forums.

                        Posted by: "David Johnson"
                        > How can we possibly influence the party leadership when it
                        > knows we'll roll over and support whatever statist ...

                        Be careful about the "we" in this sentence. The RLC does
                        not monitor, enforce, nor purge members who cast a ballot
                        for non-GOP candidates (nor those who participate in any
                        other political party ... ie: "Associates").

                        The RLC itself, a different "we", does not ever endorse
                        any candidate *in opposition to a formal GOP candidate*,
                        but we do - and have - endorsed LP candidates in races
                        where there is no GOP nominee. Even if we do not formally
                        endorsed an official GOP nominee, *as an organization*
                        we implicitly favor GOP candidates over any alternatives.

                        The RLC itself *never* contributes to any campaign,
                        GOP or otherwise. That function is exclusive to RLCUSA-
                        PAC, which is "affiliated with" the RLC, but has a separate
                        Board and checking account.

                        > ... The attitude of "my party right or wrong" has to go.
                        > When the party is wrong we must not be afraid to tell
                        > it is wrong.
                        That's the whole purpose of the RLC: to advance liberty
                        ideals in the GOP ... frequently in direct opposition to the
                        party platform and official GOP candidate positions.

                        But, in order to work *within* the party, we almost never
                        make official RLC statements in opposition to any GOP
                        candidate as an individual. Members and officers are free
                        to criticize any candidate they please, but *may not do
                        so as an official RLC representative* in a public forum.

                        RLC-Action is a *private* forum, for members-only, but
                        we discourage any kind of personal attacks on anyone,
                        candidate or not. Also bear in mind that this forum is
                        for activism, NOT for discussion of candidates or issues.
                        Queries about RLC policy are welcome.

                        Bill




                        **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
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                      • John Conway
                        Boil all the fat off of it, and this forum should never be used to denigrate the Republican Party. That only causes them to circle the wagons against the
                        Message 11 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008
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                              Boil all the fat off of it, and this forum should never be used to denigrate the Republican Party.  That only causes them to circle the wagons against the perceived threat.  We're trying to help them re-discover their roots, not put them out of business.  The rank and file there are just a susceptible to NEOCON propaganda as the rest of the country.  We are the light for them.  The rank and file there are not collectivist. However, they are for the most part uninformede.  Therefore, they are our allies.  We are the light.
                           
                          In Liberty,
                          John Conway

                          Republican Liberty Caucus
                          "Pursuing libertarianism within the GOP since 1990"


                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: George Blumel <gblumel@...>
                          To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 1:39:09 PM
                          Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

                          The misconception that Mr Johnson expresses below needs to be put in perspective.  I know of NO RLCer who is “slavish” to anything or anybody, much less a political party; no one except Mr Johnson has ever suggested anything like “my party, right or wrong..”  We are part of the party, not subject to it. We are helping to set the agenda in a libertarian direction and we are succeeding –check out the 2008 Platform and compare it to the 2004 version as one example already.  Mr Johnson and some others seem to think that the party sends out directives and we all jump to it.  They should get involved and find out how the real world works.  We have a lot to do and a long way to go and we don’t need this misinformed negativity in our way. Bring your libertarian principles, knowledge and understanding of our Constitutional Republic and get busy educating and influencing within the party. That’s our purpose and goal.  –Geo.

                           

                           


                          From: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of David Johnson
                          Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 9:50 PM
                          To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                          Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

                           

                          On Sunday 14 September 2008 03:46:38 pm George Blumel wrote:

                          > The post by McLenden belongs on the LP site, not the RLC group. This is
                          > not appropriate for a Republican group. What are you thinking? Anything
                          > you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly equal to
                          > support for the Obama bin Biden ticket.

                          On the other hand, slavish devotion to the Republican Party does nothing to
                          advance liberty. How can we possibly influence the party leadership when it
                          knows we'll roll over and support whatever statist manages to get on the
                          ticket? The attitude of "my party right or wrong" has to go. When the party
                          is wrong we must not be afraid to tell it is wrong.

                          --
                          David Johnson


                        • Mr geoff broughton
                          I hate to agree with George on just about anything. But he is right, this is a Republican group. We will all make our own choice when we go to cast our
                          Message 12 of 13 , Sep 15, 2008
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                            I hate to agree with George on just about anything.  But he is right, this is a Republican group.  We will all make our own choice when we go to cast our ballot for president, i am sure that most of us who came to the Republican party because of Dr. Paul, will feel entirely different about our choices then some others, but there are many other, more appropriate discussion boards to take up the 3rd party cause on.

                            I hate to derail a discussion like this, but has anyone reached out to homeschoolers?  I would bet money that most people who do homeschooling vote Republican, as votes about the topic usually fall along party lines. 

                            We were brainstorming about ways we could get more awareness out there about Liberty, and coming up with some curriculum for homeschoolers was mentioned. 

                            Geoff

                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: George Blumel <gblumel@...>
                            To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 1:28:06 PM
                            Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

                            Actions have consequences: if you refuse to support the candidate of your own professed party, then you are indeed enabling the opponent.  McCain was almost surely not the first choice for president of any RLCer. But when it comes down to two, us and them, it is either us or them. Simple.  Now, looking forward, let’s work hard and make sure that next time the primary winner is as libertarian a candidate as possible.  There are some coming up the line and they need our support.  Look at McCain’s advisors –there are some of our people up there notably Steve Forbes. Now let’s drop this discussion and get to work helping McCain-Palin keep Obama bin Biden from appointing to the Supreme Court those who will take away our Constitution completely (among other devastating anti-libertarian actions.).                         -Geo

                             


                            From: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of David Johnson
                            Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 2:27 PM
                            To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
                            Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] FW: Bob Barr Shows Leadership to Unify Liberty Movement

                             

                            > The misconception that Mr Johnson expresses below needs to be put in

                            > perspective. I know of NO RLCer who is "slavish" to anything or
                            anybody,
                            > much less a political party; no one except Mr Johnson has ever suggested
                            > anything like "my party, right or wrong.." We are part of the party,
                            not
                            > subject to it. We are helping to set the agenda in a libertarian direction
                            > and we are succeeding -check out the 2008 Platform and compare it to the
                            > 2004 version as one example already. Mr Johnson and some others seem to
                            > think that the party sends out directives and we all jump to it. They
                            > should get involved and find out how the real world works. We have a lot
                            > to do and a long way to go and we don't need this misinformed negativity
                            > in our way. Bring your libertarian principles, knowledge and
                            > understanding of our Constitutional
                            Republic and get busy educating and
                            > influencing within the party. That's our purpose and goal. -Geo.

                            My "slavish" statement was directed towards the following quote:

                            "Anything you do to limit support of the Republican ticket is exactly
                            equal to support for the Obama bin Biden ticket."

                            I interpret this as meaning I must support whoever the party nominates no
                            matter what. I cannot do that. I won't work against McCain, but neither
                            can I actively campaign for him. Don't lay a guilt trip on me about
                            enabling Obama.

                            The only power we have as the RLC is our reputation and our support of
                            libertarian candidates. But we lose our reputation when we support
                            non-libertarian candidates. Telling us all to shut up and back McCain
                            emasculates us. It sending a clear signal to the party leadership that we
                            will support anyone they tell us to. We shouldn't be supporting Barr, but
                            neither should we be elbowing our way to the front of McCain's
                            cheerleading section.

                            David Johnson

                            p.s. Regarding that original post urging Ron Paul to accept Barr's offer,
                            I think it's a silly idea am I am in no way endorsing it.


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