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Re: [RLC-Action] World's Biggest Political Monopoly

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  • Dave Nalle
    ... I think you ve got it exactly backwards. In our digital age intellectual property rights become increasingly important and the value of pure information
    Message 1 of 23 , Dec 26, 2004
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      >Chuck wrote:
      >
      >Oops, it appears that the World's Smallest Political Quiz is
      >copyrighted by the Advocates. So this particular version of the
      >chart shouldn't be used on RLC literature unless a release has been
      >obtained.
      >
      >Bruno writes:
      >
      >Yet another example of the idiocy of our overly "protective"
      >copyright & patent laws. The idea that some organization can
      >"copyright" a few questions so that we all need their "permission"
      >to ask a few questions is absurd.
      >
      >Limit all copyright and patent to 3-5 years, after which it all goes
      >into the public domain. This is neither bad policy, nor
      >unconstitutional. These concepts are nothing more than government
      >conferred monopolies, and the huge time frames allowed do not make
      >sense in a digital and networked world.

      I think you've got it exactly backwards. In our digital age
      intellectual property rights become increasingly important and the
      value of pure information and publications in any form needs to be
      more and better protected than ever before. More and more businesses
      live and die by the software or information resources which they
      produce and they can't survive without being able to effectively
      protect those assets. New technology makes it so easy to steal their
      data that we have to be more creative and more diligent than ever to
      provide them with legal protection.

      On the flip side of this, there's a strong movement towards open
      source and open text material which is protected by a free use
      license which protects the rights of the owners while allowing use
      and reprint. Truly protecting intellectual property rights makes
      this sort of open licensing viable and therefore makes more of these
      resources available to the public.

      Dave
      --

      Tasty Thoughts from the Elitist Pig
      http://www.elitistpig.com
    • Jeff Palmer
      The World s Smallest Political Quiz is *not* the LP s. It was developed and promulgated by the Advocates for Self-Government, a non-partisan libertarian
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 26, 2004
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        The World's Smallest Political Quiz is *not* the LP's.  It was developed and promulgated by the Advocates for Self-Government, a non-partisan libertarian education group, and is freely offered to groups such ourselves for similar purposes provided we include the proper acknowledgement to the Advocates.

        Jeff Palmer - jap@...

        -----Original Message-----
        First, Chuck Seberg wrote:

        >I'm not
        above stealing the Nolan chart from the Libs. ...

        and then Guy McLendon wrote:

        >
        class=060334623-26122004> ...  avoidance of perceived negative associations with the LP.

        Terence Geoghegan wrote :

        > I don't believe that the LP has any intellectual property rights to any
        particular iteration of the Quiz .... 
          
        I agree completely with Guy's remarks. And as to "avoidance of perceived
        negative associations with the LP," the inquiry for me is straightforward. ... 
      • Dave Nalle
        ... You think that the lifetime of an idea is only 3-5 years? I m in the business of producing graphic arts software - especially fonts - and the marketable
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 26, 2004
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          >Dave wrote:
          >
          >I think you've got it exactly backwards. In our digital age
          >intellectual property rights become increasingly important and the
          >value of pure information and publications in any form needs to be
          >more and better protected than ever before. More and more businesses
          >live and die by the software or information resources which they
          >produce and they can't survive without being able to effectively
          >protect those assets. New technology makes it so easy to steal their
          >data that we have to be more creative and more diligent than ever to
          >provide them with legal protection.
          >
          >Bruno writes:
          >
          >This seems like a good argument to reduce the time of "protection".
          >Further, I base my views upon many trends in the world today.
          >Forbes recently wrote a whole series on intellectual property law
          >and how a very few are "gaming" the system. My proposal is that if
          >you can't make a good profit off your idea or book in 3-5
          >years, tough.

          You think that the lifetime of an idea is only 3-5 years? I'm in the
          business of producing graphic arts software - especially fonts - and
          the marketable lifetime of my designs is far more than 3-5 years. If
          we had to rely on the profit we make on a font in just the first few
          years of sales we'd have to massively raise the prices so that we
          could no longer sell direct to consumers. Being able to count on an
          ongoing profitability allows for us to charge lower prices and still
          make money and keep product available to the average user.

          Your idea of reducing the duration of copyright has to be based on
          some sort of model which I'm not familiar with. If it were adopted
          whole segments of the economy would literally be destroyed and all
          sorts of design and creative work just wouldn't be done at all
          because there would no longer be a profitable market for it.

          >Libertarians generally ignore the fact that ideas are built on a
          >foundation of "open source" info that has been created by thousands
          >of years of civilization. Yet, we are all supposed to sit around
          >and allow the government to confer a monopoly on these ideas.

          So you reject the concept of originality of design? Everything is
          nothing but derivative work? Clearly you're not involved in any
          creative area of endeavor.

          >There is nothing radical or unconstitutional about reducing the time
          >of protection. The "lost" incentive to create...
          >
          >[as an aside, this concept is always overstated - the "inventor" of
          >fire or the wheel didn't have copyright or patent protection. As a
          >matter of fact, if there was such a lawyerly concept, it is pretty
          >clear mankind wouldn't have survived long.]
          >
          >....will be balanced by the more rapid uptake and integration of ideas.

          And the massive increase in prices for all sorts of things and
          enormous reduction in variety available. Not to mention the failure
          of any but the largest businesses in the effected industry.

          Sounds like a formula for creating monopolistic businesses. I know
          that in my industry if this were to happen only 2 or 3 very large
          companies would survive and hundreds would just shut down or sell
          out. You'd be buying your fonts from Adobe at $200 a font and there
          would only be 100 fonts available and you'd have to lump it. That
          doesn't sound very Libertarian at all.

          My industry is small. The impact on other, larger industries would
          be incredible. It would mean that the creators of television
          programs and movies and music would no longer get residual payments
          for their work, in many cases rendering that work too costly to do.
          Most TV shows don't really show a profit until they have been on the
          air for at least 3 years and gone into syndication. That's where the
          money from them is really generated, especially for the actors
          involved. The importance of residual profits over even longer term
          is a big element in the publishing industry as well. Writers live on
          the small royalty checks they keep getting for years after the
          initial publication of a book. All of that would stop if you had
          your way.

          I think your ideas are based on a combination of resentment against
          certain large companies and an ignorance of the marketplace. They
          seem essentially socialistic in nature - taking away the fruits of
          peoples labor and taking their intellectual property and giving it to
          the masses. That's the most un-Libertarian thing I've ever heard of.

          Dave

          --

          Tasty Thoughts from the Elitist Pig
          http://www.elitistpig.com
        • John David Galt
          ... The Advocates acknowledges David Nolan as the original author (on his own behalf, I assume -- the LP has never claimed ownership of it), well before the
          Message 4 of 23 , Dec 26, 2004
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            Jeff Palmer wrote:
            > The World's Smallest Political Quiz is *not* the LP's. It was developed
            > and promulgated by the Advocates for Self-Government, a non-partisan
            > libertarian education group, and is freely offered to groups such
            > ourselves for similar purposes provided we include the proper
            > acknowledgement to the Advocates.

            The Advocates acknowledges David Nolan as the original author (on his own
            behalf, I assume -- the LP has never claimed ownership of it), well before
            the Advocates existed (and indeed, the LP was using it in publicity
            materials when I joined them in 1978). However, turning the chart on its
            corner is the Advocates' innovation, and they've revised the quiz questions
            at least twice that I know of.

            The original version had gun control as one of the "personal freedom"
            questions. The Advocates took that out because it tended to make the
            mapping of "left" and "right" inaccurate (it is about the only "personal
            freedom" question that right-wingers are more likely to answer YES than
            left-wingers), but it could be argued both ways.

            I'm not sure exactly what other questions were changed.
          • Adam J Bernay
            Correction: The Advocates acknowledges Nolan as the creator of the graph. The creator of the Quiz itself is my friend and former employer, Marshall Fritz
            Message 5 of 23 , Dec 26, 2004
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              Correction: The Advocates acknowledges Nolan as the creator of the graph.
              The creator of the Quiz itself is my friend and former employer, Marshall
              Fritz (founder of the Advocates for Self-Government and the Alliance for the
              Separation of School & State).

              -----Original Message-----
              From: John David Galt [mailto:jdg@...]
              Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 5:17 PM
              To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] Re: World's Smallest Political Quiz

              The Advocates acknowledges David Nolan as the original author (on his own
              behalf, I assume -- the LP has never claimed ownership of it), well before
              the Advocates existed (and indeed, the LP was using it in publicity
              materials when I joined them in 1978). However, turning the chart on its
              corner is the Advocates' innovation, and they've revised the quiz questions
              at least twice that I know of.
            • John David Galt
              ... Nope, the LP version had a quiz too (though it was 20 questions, IIRC).
              Message 6 of 23 , Dec 26, 2004
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                Adam J Bernay wrote:
                > Correction: The Advocates acknowledges Nolan as the creator of the graph.
                > The creator of the Quiz itself is my friend and former employer, Marshall
                > Fritz (founder of the Advocates for Self-Government and the Alliance for the
                > Separation of School & State).

                Nope, the LP version had a quiz too (though it was 20 questions, IIRC).
              • Adam J Bernay
                From: John David Galt [mailto:jdg@diogenes.sacramento.ca.us] Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 8:56 PM ... But that was NOT the World s Smallest Political Quiz,
                Message 7 of 23 , Dec 26, 2004
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                  From: John David Galt [mailto:jdg@...]
                  Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 8:56 PM

                  >> Correction: The Advocates acknowledges Nolan as the
                  >> creator of the graph. The creator of the Quiz itself
                  >> is my friend and former employer, Marshall Fritz
                  >> (founder of the Advocates for Self-Government and the
                  >> Alliance for the Separation of School & State).
                  >
                  > Nope, the LP version had a quiz too (though it was 20
                  > questions, IIRC).

                  But that was NOT the World's Smallest Political Quiz, that was a different
                  quiz that used the same scoring chart.


                  Adam
                • Chuck Seberg
                  I guess I ll always call it the Nolan Chart because he doodled it into existence. Marshal Fritz redesigned it and gave it a catchy moniker, and Advocates
                  Message 8 of 23 , Dec 27, 2004
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                    I guess I'll always call it the Nolan Chart because he doodled it into existence.  Marshal Fritz redesigned it and gave it a catchy moniker, and Advocates still acknowledges it's source.  RLC used it as the basis of Libergraph, and you'll note the reference on the website.  But it gets worse.  Check this out:
                     
                     
                    It appears everbody has taken a shot at this.  I've often wondered how the questions were tested.  Anyone familiar with polling knows there are many ways to ask a question.  And they spend a lot of time validating their poll questions.  Has a pollster ever checked if any of our tests actually measure what we think we are measuring?
                     
                    Chuck Seberg
                     
                     
                  • Adam J Bernay
                    Yet again, the Chart and the Quiz are two different things. The Chart - created by David Nolan -- is a scoring mechanism, which can and has been used as the
                    Message 9 of 23 , Dec 28, 2004
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                      Yet again, the Chart and the Quiz are two different things.  The Chart – created by David Nolan -- is a scoring mechanism, which can and has been used as the scoring mechanism for various quizzes.  The World’s Smallest Political Quiz was Marshall ’s creation.  It was a wonderful marriage.

                       


                      From: Chuck Seberg [mailto:pusherprop3@...]
                      Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 5:52 PM
                      To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] Re: World's Smallest Political Quiz

                       

                      I guess I'll always call it the Nolan Chart because he doodled it into existence.  Marshal Fritz redesigned it and gave it a catchy moniker, and Advocates still acknowledges it's source.  RLC used it as the basis of Libergraph, and you'll note the reference on the website.  But it gets worse.  Check this out:

                       

                       

                      It appears everbody has taken a shot at this.  I've often wondered how the questions were tested.  Anyone familiar with polling knows there are many ways to ask a question.  And they spend a lot of time validating their poll questions.  Has a pollster ever checked if any of our tests actually measure what we think we are measuring?

                       

                      Chuck Seberg

                       

                       



                    • Bruno Behrend
                      Chuck wrote: It appears everbody has taken a shot at this. I ve often wondered how the questions were tested. Anyone familiar with polling knows there are
                      Message 10 of 23 , Dec 28, 2004
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                        Chuck wrote:
                         
                        It appears everbody has taken a shot at this.  I've often wondered how the questions were tested.  Anyone familiar with polling knows there are many ways to ask a question.  And they spend a lot of time validating their poll questions.  Has a pollster ever checked if any of our tests actually measure what we think we are measuring? 
                         
                        Bruno writes:
                         
                        How typically libertarian.  Each "faction" gets its own chart, mostly likely complete with a detailed explanation as to why their chart is more in line with "objectivist" principles. 
                      • Chuck Seberg
                        Oops, it appears that the World s Smallest Political Quiz is copyrighted by the Advocates. So this particular version of the chart shouldn t be used on RLC
                        Message 11 of 23 , Dec 28, 2004
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                          Oops, it appears that the World's Smallest Political Quiz is copyrighted by the Advocates.  So this particular version of the chart shouldn't be used on RLC literature unless a release has been obtained.
                           
                          Chuck Seberg
                           
                        • Bruno Behrend
                          Chuck wrote: Oops, it appears that the World s Smallest Political Quiz is copyrighted by the Advocates. So this particular version of the chart shouldn t be
                          Message 12 of 23 , Dec 28, 2004
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                            Chuck wrote:
                            Oops, it appears that the World's Smallest Political Quiz is copyrighted by the Advocates.  So this particular version of the chart shouldn't be used on RLC literature unless a release has been obtained. 
                             
                            Bruno writes:
                             
                            Yet another example of the idiocy of our overly "protective" copyright & patent laws.  The idea that some organization can "copyright" a few questions so that we all need their "permission" to ask a few questions is absurd.
                             
                            Limit all copyright and patent to 3-5 years, after which it all goes into the public domain.  This is neither bad policy, nor unconstitutional.  These concepts are nothing more than government conferred monopolies, and the huge time frames allowed do not make sense in a digital and networked world.
                          • Jeff Palmer
                            The Advocates freely offers the Quiz for use by organizations such as ours so long as the appropriate attribution is given to the Advocates. Jeff Palmer -
                            Message 13 of 23 , Dec 28, 2004
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                              The Advocates freely offers the Quiz for use by organizations such as ours so long as the appropriate attribution is given to the Advocates.
                               
                              Jeff Palmer - jap@...

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Chuck Seberg [mailto:pusherprop3@...]
                              Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:21 AM
                              To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] Re: World's Smallest Political Quiz 

                              Oops, it appears that the World's Smallest Political Quiz is copyrighted by the Advocates.  So this particular version of the chart shouldn't be used on RLC literature unless a release has been obtained.

                              Chuck Seberg
                            • Bruno Behrend
                              Jeff, This is nice, as far as it goes. I maintain that I m correct on copyright & patent. Bruno ... From: Jeff Palmer [mailto:jap@highstream.net] Sent:
                              Message 14 of 23 , Dec 28, 2004
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                                Jeff,
                                 
                                This is nice, as far as it goes.  I maintain that I'm correct on copyright & patent.
                                 
                                Bruno
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Jeff Palmer [mailto:jap@...]
                                Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:15 AM
                                To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] Re: World's Smallest Political Quiz

                                The Advocates freely offers the Quiz for use by organizations such as ours so long as the appropriate attribution is given to the Advocates.
                                 
                                Jeff Palmer - jap@...

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Chuck Seberg [mailto:pusherprop3@...]
                                Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:21 AM
                                To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] Re: World's Smallest Political Quiz 

                                Oops, it appears that the World's Smallest Political Quiz is copyrighted by the Advocates.  So this particular version of the chart shouldn't be used on RLC literature unless a release has been obtained.

                                Chuck Seberg

                              • Adam J Bernay
                                They ve given permission for use; check out http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-faq.html#faq10 _____ From: Bruno Behrend [mailto:davincicg@sbcglobal.net] Sent:
                                Message 15 of 23 , Dec 28, 2004
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                                  They’ve given permission for use; check out http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-faq.html#faq10

                                   


                                  From: Bruno Behrend [mailto:davincicg@...]
                                  Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 7:38 AM
                                  To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [RLC-Action] World's Biggest Political Monopoly

                                   

                                  Chuck wrote:

                                  Oops, it appears that the World's Smallest Political Quiz is copyrighted by the Advocates.  So this particular version of the chart shouldn't be used on RLC literature unless a release has been obtained. 

                                   

                                  Bruno writes:

                                   

                                  Yet another example of the idiocy of our overly "protective" copyright & patent laws.  The idea that some organization can "copyright" a few questions so that we all need their "permission" to ask a few questions is absurd.

                                   

                                  Limit all copyright and patent to 3-5 years, after which it all goes into the public domain.  This is neither bad policy, nor unconstitutional.  These concepts are nothing more than government conferred monopolies, and the huge time frames allowed do not make sense in a digital and networked world.



                                • DGHarrison
                                  I ve wondered the very same thing. What is the validity of the WSPQ? So long as Nolan or Fritz or The Advocates continue to allow us to use the WSPQ, I see no
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Dec 28, 2004
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                                    I've wondered the very same thing. What is the validity of the WSPQ?
                                    So long as Nolan or Fritz or The Advocates continue to allow us to use
                                    the WSPQ, I see no reason to change. Besides, if you go to The
                                    Advocates' website to answer the questions, your results are added to
                                    the statistical count being done by that group. You will note that there
                                    is also a counter that tracks the total number of folks who have taken
                                    the quiz. I like the idea of a universal quiz because it lends
                                    authenticity to the results --- that is, if the test is valid in the
                                    first place. So, how is the quiz validated? And is that acceptible to
                                    statisticians and news outlets?

                                    Doug Harrison
                                  • Bruno Behrend
                                    Dave wrote: I think you ve got it exactly backwards. In our digital age intellectual property rights become increasingly important and the value of pure
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Dec 28, 2004
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                                      Dave wrote:

                                      I think you've got it exactly backwards. In our digital age
                                      intellectual property rights become increasingly important and the
                                      value of pure information and publications in any form needs to be
                                      more and better protected than ever before.  More and more businesses
                                      live and die by the software or information resources which they
                                      produce and they can't survive without being able to effectively
                                      protect those assets.  New technology makes it so easy to steal their
                                      data that we have to be more creative and more diligent than ever to
                                      provide them with legal protection. 
                                       
                                      Bruno writes:
                                       
                                      This seems like a good argument to reduce the time of "protection".  Further, I base my views upon many trends in the world today.  Forbes recently wrote a whole series on intellectual property law and how a very few are "gaming" the system.  My proposal is that if you can't make a good profit off your idea or book in 3-5 years, tough.
                                       
                                      Libertarians generally ignore the fact that ideas are built on a foundation of "open source" info that has been created by thousands of years of civilization.  Yet, we are all supposed to sit around and allow the government to confer a monopoly on these ideas.
                                       
                                      There is nothing radical or unconstitutional about reducing the time of protection.  The "lost" incentive to create...
                                       
                                      [as an aside, this concept is always overstated - the "inventor" of fire or the wheel didn't have copyright or patent protection.  As a matter of fact, if there was such a lawyerly concept, it is pretty clear mankind wouldn't have survived long.]
                                       
                                      ....will be balanced by the more rapid uptake and integration of ideas.
                                       
                                      I hope open source destroys Gates. Not because I hate Gates or his ilk, but because the Gates of the world always overreach.
                                       
                                       
                                    • Douglas Lorenz
                                      Uh, we re moving away from the purpose of this discussion group. _____ From: Dave Nalle [mailto:dave@nalle.net] Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 4:19 PM To:
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Dec 28, 2004
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                                        Uh, we’re moving away from the purpose of this discussion group.

                                         


                                        From: Dave Nalle [mailto:dave@...]
                                        Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 4:19 PM
                                        To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] World's Biggest Political Monopoly

                                         

                                        >Dave wrote:
                                        >
                                        >I think you've got it exactly backwards. In our digital age
                                        >intellectual property rights become increasingly important and the
                                        >value of pure information and publications in any form needs to be
                                        >more and better protected than ever before.  More and more businesses
                                        >live and die by the software or information resources which they
                                        >produce and they can't survive without being able to effectively
                                        >protect those assets.  New technology makes it so easy to steal their
                                        >data that we have to be more creative and more diligent than ever to
                                        >provide them with legal protection.
                                        >
                                        >Bruno writes:
                                        >
                                        >This seems like a good argument to reduce the time of "protection".
                                        >Further, I base my views upon many trends in the world today.
                                        >Forbes recently wrote a whole series on intellectual property law
                                        >and how a very few are "gaming" the system.  My proposal is that if
                                        >you can't make a good profit off your idea or book in 3-5
                                        >years, tough.

                                        You think that the lifetime of an idea is only 3-5 years?  I'm in the
                                        business of producing graphic arts software - especially fonts - and
                                        the marketable lifetime of my designs is far more than 3-5 years.  If
                                        we had to rely on the profit we make on a font in just the first few
                                        years of sales we'd have to massively raise the prices so that we
                                        could no longer sell direct to consumers.  Being able to count on an
                                        ongoing profitability allows for us to charge lower prices and still
                                        make money and keep product available to the average user.

                                        Your idea of reducing the duration of copyright has to be based on
                                        some sort of model which I'm not familiar with.  If it were adopted
                                        whole segments of the economy would literally be destroyed and all
                                        sorts of design and creative work just wouldn't be done at all
                                        because there would no longer be a profitable market for it.

                                        >Libertarians generally ignore the fact that ideas are built on a
                                        >foundation of "open source" info that has been created by thousands
                                        >of years of civilization.  Yet, we are all supposed to sit around
                                        >and allow the government to confer a monopoly on these ideas.

                                        So you reject the concept of originality of design?  Everything is
                                        nothing but derivative work?  Clearly you're not involved in any
                                        creative area of endeavor.

                                        >There is nothing radical or unconstitutional about reducing the time
                                        >of protection.  The "lost" incentive to create...
                                        >
                                        >[as an aside, this concept is always overstated - the "inventor" of
                                        >fire or the wheel didn't have copyright or patent protection.  As a
                                        >matter of fact, if there was such a lawyerly concept, it is pretty
                                        >clear mankind wouldn't have survived long.]
                                        >
                                        >....will be balanced by the more rapid uptake and integration of ideas.

                                        And the massive increase in prices for all sorts of things and
                                        enormous reduction in variety available.  Not to mention the failure
                                        of any but the largest businesses in the effected industry.

                                        Sounds like a formula for creating monopolistic businesses.  I know
                                        that in my industry if this were to happen only 2 or 3 very large
                                        companies would survive and hundreds would just shut down or sell
                                        out.  You'd be buying your fonts from Adobe at $200 a font and there
                                        would only be 100 fonts available and you'd have to lump it.  That
                                        doesn't sound very Libertarian at all.

                                        My industry is small.  The impact on other, larger industries would
                                        be incredible.  It would mean that the creators of television
                                        programs and movies and music would no longer get residual payments
                                        for their work, in many cases rendering that work too costly to do.
                                        Most TV shows don't really show a profit until they have been on the
                                        air for at least 3 years and gone into syndication.  That's where the
                                        money from them is really generated, especially for the actors
                                        involved.  The importance of residual profits over even longer term
                                        is a big element in the publishing industry as well.  Writers live on
                                        the small royalty checks they keep getting for years after the
                                        initial publication of a book.  All of that would stop if you had
                                        your way.

                                        I think your ideas are based on a combination of resentment against
                                        certain large companies and an ignorance of the marketplace.  They
                                        seem essentially socialistic in nature - taking away the fruits of
                                        peoples labor and taking their intellectual property and giving it to
                                        the masses.  That's the most un-Libertarian thing I've ever heard of.

                                        Dave

                                        --

                                        Tasty Thoughts from the Elitist Pig
                                        http://www.elitistpig.com


                                      • Bruno Behrend
                                        Hey all, I won t post this topic to the list any more. I do however, think that is worthy of discussion in other forums. Bruno
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Dec 29, 2004
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                                          Hey all,
                                           
                                          I won't post this topic to the list any more.  I do however, think that is worthy of discussion in other forums.
                                           
                                          Bruno
                                        • westmiller@aol.com
                                          From: Chuck Seberg pusherprop3@mchsi.com ... We have authorization to use it in any way we please and the brochures include a (c) notice to the Advocates,
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Dec 29, 2004
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                                            From: "Chuck Seberg" pusherprop3@...
                                            > ... World's Smallest Political Quiz is copyrighted by the
                                            > Advocates. So this particular version of the chart shouldn't
                                            > be used on RLC literature unless a release has been obtained.

                                            We have authorization to use it in any way we please and
                                            the brochures include a (c) notice to the Advocates, as well
                                            as their website. Please download the brochures.

                                            From: DGHarrison DGHarrison@...
                                            >... So, how is the quiz validated? And is that acceptible to
                                            > statisticians and news outlets?

                                            Rasmussen conducted a public poll on the quiz (though I
                                            think they shortened the "shortest" question list ;o) in 2001.
                                            I think about 17% rated "libertarian". But, the question of
                                            validity is different, depending on your criteria. If the issue
                                            is the "% of xxxxx freedom", then anarchists should always
                                            have the highest rating. If it's "% of xxxxx liberty", then the
                                            anarchists might end up as "moderates". Note that the RLC
                                            LiberGraph uses % of liberty and Advocates % of freedom.
                                            If the test is for libertarian principles, it should measure the
                                            affinity for liberty, not anarchy. There's a difference.

                                            Bill
                                          • westmiller@aol.com
                                            Reminder: RLC-Action is not the place for discussion of issues. Take debates on patents and copyrights to RLC-Discuss. Bill PS: Rules regarding length and
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Dec 29, 2004
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                                              Reminder: RLC-Action is not the place for discussion of issues.
                                              Take debates on patents and copyrights to RLC-Discuss.
                                               
                                              Bill
                                              PS: Rules regarding length and number of posts apply to
                                              RLC-Action: 50 lines or 2 posts/day. Delete previous posts.
                                               
                                              From: "Bruno Behrend" <davincicg@...>
                                              >
                                              This seems like a good argument to reduce the time of "protection".
                                              From: Dave Nalle dave@...
                                              >I think you've got it exactly
                                              backwards.
                                               
                                            • greenspj
                                              CAN WE PLEASE LIMIT THE GENERAL DISCUSSION ON THIS GROUP? There are enough RLC discussion groups. Thanks! ... copyrighted ... shouldn t be used ... copyright &
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Jan 3, 2005
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                                                CAN WE PLEASE LIMIT THE GENERAL DISCUSSION ON THIS GROUP?

                                                There are enough RLC discussion groups.

                                                Thanks!


                                                --- In RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com, "Bruno Behrend" <davincicg@s...>
                                                wrote:
                                                > Chuck wrote:
                                                > Oops, it appears that the World's Smallest Political Quiz is
                                                copyrighted
                                                > by the Advocates. So this particular version of the chart
                                                shouldn't be used
                                                > on RLC literature unless a release has been obtained.
                                                >
                                                > Bruno writes:
                                                >
                                                > Yet another example of the idiocy of our overly "protective"
                                                copyright &
                                                > patent laws. The idea that some organization can "copyright" a few
                                                > questions so that we all need their "permission" to ask a few
                                                questions is
                                                > absurd.
                                                >
                                                > Limit all copyright and patent to 3-5 years, after which it all
                                                goes into
                                                > the public domain. This is neither bad policy, nor
                                                unconstitutional. These
                                                > concepts are nothing more than government conferred monopolies, and
                                                the huge
                                                > time frames allowed do not make sense in a digital and networked
                                                world.
                                              • Chuck Seberg
                                                I started with the digests but they were starting to bury me. So now I take individual emails and I set up filters and manage the flow a lot better. Several
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Jan 3, 2005
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                                                  I started with the digests but they were starting to bury me.  So now I take individual emails and I set up filters and manage the flow a lot better.  Several people on this list go automatically into my trash folder.  And others of you go into my "must read" folder.  I'm working to refine my system with each email, but it already saves me a lot of time and aggravation.
                                                   
                                                  Chuck Seberg
                                                      
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: greenspj
                                                   
                                                  CAN WE PLEASE LIMIT THE GENERAL DISCUSSION ON THIS GROUP?

                                                  There are enough RLC discussion groups.

                                                  Thanks!


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