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Re: [RLC-Action] Roll Call on Intelligence Bill

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  • Dave Nalle
    ... That s not what I m picking up from the media at all. I m getting the clear message that it s a compromise bill that no one is entirely happy with but
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 9, 2004
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      >From what I've seen in the media about this bill, it is presented as
      >an absolute no brainer that anyone would be a fool not to vote for.
      >We have to do a better job of representing our views and vision in
      >the media.

      That's not what I'm picking up from the media at all. I'm getting
      the clear message that it's a compromise bill that no one is entirely
      happy with but which people are going along with reluctantly because
      it's better than nothing and at least satisfies some of the basic
      needs identified by the 9-11 commission.

      Personally, from what I can tell it's fairly meaningless. On the one
      hand it creates the appearance of centralizing administration of
      intelligence, while at the same time merely creating another level of
      ineffective bureaucracy. While I object top any form of government
      growth, it's also usually the case that the more complex and
      redundant the government becomes the less capable it is of actually
      doing anything to oppress us effectively.

      Dave
      --

      -----

      Common Sense for Austin Politics
      www.commonsenseaustin.com
    • westmiller@aol.com
      From: Dave Nalle dave@nalle.net ... Which leaves: oppressing us INeffectively: i.e. on the basis of random bureaucratic whim. The problem (if it s a problem)
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 9, 2004
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        From: Dave Nalle dave@...
        > While I object top any form of government growth,
        > it's also usually the case that the more complex and
        > redundant the government becomes the less capable
        > it is of actually doing anything to oppress us effectively.
            Which leaves: oppressing us INeffectively: i.e. on the
        basis of random bureaucratic whim.
            The problem (if it's a problem) was failure to share
        intelligence among agencies. The obvious solution was
        to eliminate the previous laws that forbade sharing.
            Aside from a new bureaucracy, this bill:
            1. Extended executive discretion to detain and keep
        secret any charges against "lone wolves", rather than
        those associated with "terrorist organizations";
            2. Nationalized the terms and documents for state
        driver's licenses;
            3. Allowed unrestricted cross-referencing of any and
        all state and federal databases for "intelligence" purposes;
            4. Elminated the sunset provisions of the PATRIOT act;
            5. Granted full budget discretion to a Director who is
        not even a member of the cabinet;
            etc., etc.
         
            But, you're right. It was played up as "necessary"
        upgrades of government discretion and snooping, mainly
        promoted by a small group of "9/11 survivors" with a very
        bad agenda.
            However, it wasn't ignored. The RLC joined many other
        organizations (30) in opposing the most onerous provisions
        of the bill. The legislators opposed made their objections
        clear. The fear mongers and "do anything" advocates won.
         
        Bill   
      • Barry Moore
        ...and, since it s probably got some conflicting sections, it will probably be ruled by department regulation in lieu of Congressional mandate. Result? More
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 9, 2004
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          ...and, since it's probably got some conflicting sections, it will probably be "ruled"
          by department regulation in lieu of Congressional mandate. Result? More lawmaking
          by the Executive branch.

          westmiller@... wrote:
          From: Dave Nalle dave@...
          > While I object top any form of government growth,
          > it's also usually the case that the more complex and
          > redundant the government becomes the less capable
          > it is of actually doing anything to oppress us effectively.
              Which leaves: oppressing us INeffectively: i.e. on the
          basis of random bureaucratic whim.
              The problem (if it's a problem) was failure to share
          intelligence among agencies. The obvious solution was
          to eliminate the previous laws that forbade sharing.
              Aside from a new bureaucracy, this bill:
              1. Extended executive discretion to detain and keep
          secret any charges against "lone wolves", rather than
          those associated with "terrorist organizations";
              2. Nationalized the terms and documents for state
          driver's licenses;
              3. Allowed unrestricted cross-referencing of any and
          all state and federal databases for "intelligence" purposes;
              4. Elminated the sunset provisions of the PATRIOT act;
              5. Granted full budget discretion to a Director who is
          not even a member of the cabinet;
              etc., etc.
           
              But, you're right. It was played up as "necessary"
          upgrades of government discretion and snooping, mainly
          promoted by a small group of "9/11 survivors" with a very
          bad agenda.
              However, it wasn't ignored. The RLC joined many other
          organizations (30) in opposing the most onerous provisions
          of the bill. The legislators opposed made their objections
          clear. The fear mongers and "do anything" advocates won.
           
          Bill   


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        • Kevin Boyd
          May God bless each and every one of these heroes. ... The
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 9, 2004
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            May God bless each and every one of these heroes.

            --- In RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com, westmiller@a... wrote:
            > Final votes yesterday and tonight on the "Intelligence" Bill.
            The
            > opponent list looks like an RLC "Hall of Fame" ... even with the 8
            > Democrats and several Republicans that thought it wasn't bad -
            > or draconian - enough!
            >
            > Bill
            > --------------------------------------
            > S 2845 Conference Report
            > House Roll Call # 544: 336 Yes / 75 No
            > Senate Roll Call # 216: 89 Yes / 2 No
            >
            > ---- HOUSE NOES 75 ---
            > Aderholt
            > Bachus
            > Barrett (SC)
            > Bartlett (MD)
            > Barton (TX)
            > Bishop (UT)
            > Blackburn
            > Bono
            > Boozman
            > Brown-Waite, Ginny
            > Burgess
            > Calvert
            > Camp
            > Chabot
            > Coble
            > Collins
            > Crane
            > Cubin
            > Culberson
            > Davis, Jo Ann
            > Deal (GA)
            > Duncan
            > Everett
            > Feeney
            > Flake
            > Forbes
            > Gallegly
            > Gingrey
            > Goode
            > Gordon [D]
            > Green (WI)
            > Gutknecht
            > Hayworth
            > Hefley
            > Hostettler
            > Issa
            > Istook
            > Jenkins
            > Johnson, Sam
            > Jones (NC)
            > King (IA)
            > Kingston
            > Kucinich [D]
            > LaHood
            > Lewis (KY)
            > Lucas (OK)
            > Manzullo
            > McDermott [D]
            > McInnis
            > Miller, Gary
            > Mollohan [D]
            > Murtha [D]
            > Myrick
            > Neugebauer
            > Oberstar
            > Obey
            > Ose
            > Otter
            > Paul
            > Pitts
            > Pombo
            > Radanovich
            > Rehberg
            > Rohrabacher
            > Royce
            > Sabo [D]
            > Sensenbrenner
            > Simpson
            > Smith (TX)
            > Sullivan
            > Sweeney
            > Tancredo
            > Taylor (NC)
            > Wamp
            > Weldon (FL)
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