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Re: [RLC-Action] Re: [RLC-National] Shadegg for Majority Leader

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  • Chaosrider2004@aol.com
    Libertarians eat their young, philosophically. Purism and effective politics don t mix. TCS ============================= In a message dated 1/14/2006 2:03:54
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 14, 2006
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      Libertarians eat their young, philosophically.
       
      Purism and effective politics don't mix.
       
      TCS
      =============================
       
      In a message dated 1/14/2006 2:03:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, jonhenke@... writes:
      My apologies.   As you suggest, I didn't see your follow-up until after I'd sent my comment.   I still think you're missing the point with this, though....

      "We shouldn't be pulling for him, we should be issuing a statement denouncing all three candidates as unacceptable. I'm all for the lesser evil when it's necessary, but this is a time  when it does us no good and we could be making a point that's of some value."


      ---What is the point of the RLC, if not to encourage small steps in better directions?    If the goal is simply to stand on principle and denounce everything insufficiently libertarian, why not just join the Libertarian Party and be done with it? 

           Shadegg is not a perfect candidate from almost anybody's point of view.   But that's a pluralistic democracy.    Nobody agrees with any candidate on everything.    There's certainly a time and place for "none of the above" -- I voted that way in the last Presidential election -- but Shadegg is a clear step closer to our point of view than Boehner and Blunt.    If we'd condemn the GOP taking a "clear step closer to our point of view", then what the hell is the purpose of the RLC?

           And while I'm on the topic of the libertarian tendency to balkinize over issues of purity, let me point out how amusing it is that RLC'rs are suggesting we condemn the GOP for considering a member of the RLC for Majority leader.    That might just be the most ironically perfect example of libertarian factionalism I've yet to see.

      --
      --Jon Henke--
      http://www.qando.net





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    • Dave Nalle
      ... If you ve been reading this list, you know I m not some ideological absolutist, but I found looking at Shadegg s record pretty distressing. I mean, just
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 14, 2006
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        >---What is the point of the RLC, if not to encourage small steps in
        >better directions? If the goal is simply to stand on principle
        >and denounce everything insufficiently libertarian, why not just
        >join the Libertarian Party and be done with it?

        If you've been reading this list, you know I'm not some ideological
        absolutist, but I found looking at Shadegg's record pretty
        distressing. I mean, just about everyone in the GOP supports gun
        ownership and lower taxes, which are about the only issues he meshes
        with the RLC on.

        > Shadegg is not a perfect candidate from almost anybody's point
        >of view. But that's a pluralistic democracy. Nobody agrees with
        >any candidate on everything. There's certainly a time and place
        >for "none of the above" -- I voted that way in the last Presidential
        >election -- but Shadegg is a clear step closer to our point of view
        >than Boehner and Blunt. If we'd condemn the GOP taking a "clear
        >step closer to our point of view", then what the hell is the purpose
        >of the RLC?

        I don't see the clarity of that step at all.

        > And while I'm on the topic of the libertarian tendency to
        >balkinize over issues of purity, let me point out how amusing it is
        >that RLC'rs are suggesting we condemn the GOP for considering a
        >member of the RLC for Majority leader. That might just be the
        >most ironically perfect example of libertarian factionalism I've yet
        >to see.

        I wasn't aware until today that he's actually a RLC member. I'm
        surprised, and it does suggest that he's less run-of-the-mill than
        his record indicates. I guess it means we can at least hope for
        better things from him.

        Dave
        --

        Tasty Thoughts from the Elitist Pig
        http://www.elitistpig.com
      • Dave Nalle
        ... Averaging the ratings for the last 4 years Boehner averages 71.5, Blunt averages 71 and Shadegg averages 72.5. That s not exactly head and shoulders. Dave
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 14, 2006
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          >From: Dave Nalle
          >Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 11:36 AM
          >
          >>> Of the candidates for House Majority Leader,
          >>> which do you suggest is better?
          >>
          >> I guess you missed my followup. They all suck.
          >> Numerically based on ratings from various interest
          >> groups Shadegg is fractionally less awful. But
          >> based on his stated positions on key issues he's
          >> inherently unacceptable.
          >
          >Dave, for me, on something like this, the only rating I care about is our
          >Liberty Index, and according to that, I believe Shadegg is head and
          >shoulders above the other choices.

          Averaging the ratings for the last 4 years Boehner averages 71.5, Blunt
          averages 71 and Shadegg averages 72.5. That's not exactly head and shoulders.

          Dave
          --

          Tasty Thoughts from the Elitist Pig
          http://www.elitistpig.com
        • greenspj
          He s not, I don t believe. He is a member of Ron Paul s Liberty Caucus, but not of the Republican Liberty Caucus. Anyway, he voted for CAFTA and the national
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 16, 2006
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            He's not, I don't believe. He is a member of Ron Paul's Liberty
            Caucus, but not of the Republican Liberty Caucus.

            Anyway, he voted for CAFTA and the national id.

            Those are hardly "ideologically pure" disqualifiers. They are run of
            the mill basic ones.


            --- In RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com, Dave Nalle <dave@n...> wrote:
            >

            > > And while I'm on the topic of the libertarian tendency to
            > >balkinize over issues of purity, let me point out how amusing it is
            > >that RLC'rs are suggesting we condemn the GOP for considering a
            > >member of the RLC for Majority leader. That might just be the
            > >most ironically perfect example of libertarian factionalism I've yet
            > >to see.
            >
            > I wasn't aware until today that he's actually a RLC member. I'm
            > surprised, and it does suggest that he's less run-of-the-mill than
            > his record indicates. I guess it means we can at least hope for
            > better things from him.
            >
            > Dave
            > --
            >
            > Tasty Thoughts from the Elitist Pig
            > http://www.elitistpig.com
            >
          • Philip Blumel
            Dave, I sympathize with your sentiments here. I am particularly distressed by his vocal stand on immigration, on which he opposes any reform and instead
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 18, 2006
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              Dave,

              I sympathize with your sentiments here. I am particularly distressed
              by his vocal stand on immigration, on which he opposes any reform
              and instead embraces the destructive enforcement-only model.

              However, looking at the big picture, his Liberty Index rankings
              place him near the top in Congress from our point of view, as does
              his National Taxpayer Union ratings. Plus, he is also an explicit
              friend of the RLC.

              The Florida RLC is supportive of his candidacy for these reasons,
              recognizing that neither of the other two candidates for the job are
              Ron Paul or Jeff Flake.

              -- Philip Blumel www.rlcfl.org


              --- In RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com, Dave Nalle <dave@n...> wrote:
              >
              > >---What is the point of the RLC, if not to encourage small steps
              in
              > >better directions? If the goal is simply to stand on principle
              > >and denounce everything insufficiently libertarian, why not just
              > >join the Libertarian Party and be done with it?
              >
              > If you've been reading this list, you know I'm not some
              ideological
              > absolutist, but I found looking at Shadegg's record pretty
              > distressing. I mean, just about everyone in the GOP supports gun
              > ownership and lower taxes, which are about the only issues he
              meshes
              > with the RLC on.
              >
              > > Shadegg is not a perfect candidate from almost anybody's
              point
              > >of view. But that's a pluralistic democracy. Nobody agrees
              with
              > >any candidate on everything. There's certainly a time and
              place
              > >for "none of the above" -- I voted that way in the last
              Presidential
              > >election -- but Shadegg is a clear step closer to our point of
              view
              > >than Boehner and Blunt. If we'd condemn the GOP taking
              a "clear
              > >step closer to our point of view", then what the hell is the
              purpose
              > >of the RLC?
              >
              > I don't see the clarity of that step at all.
              >
              > > And while I'm on the topic of the libertarian tendency to
              > >balkinize over issues of purity, let me point out how amusing it
              is
              > >that RLC'rs are suggesting we condemn the GOP for considering a
              > >member of the RLC for Majority leader. That might just be the
              > >most ironically perfect example of libertarian factionalism I've
              yet
              > >to see.
              >
              > I wasn't aware until today that he's actually a RLC member. I'm
              > surprised, and it does suggest that he's less run-of-the-mill than
              > his record indicates. I guess it means we can at least hope for
              > better things from him.
              >
              > Dave
              > --
              >
              > Tasty Thoughts from the Elitist Pig
              > http://www.elitistpig.com
              >
            • Dave Nalle
              ... I ve done more research on Shadegg now, and I agree he d be a step forward. The other two are really completely uninspiring. You can read my overall
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 18, 2006
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                >Dave,
                >
                >I sympathize with your sentiments here. I am particularly distressed
                >by his vocal stand on immigration, on which he opposes any reform
                >and instead embraces the destructive enforcement-only model.
                >
                >However, looking at the big picture, his Liberty Index rankings
                >place him near the top in Congress from our point of view, as does
                >his National Taxpayer Union ratings. Plus, he is also an explicit
                >friend of the RLC.
                >
                >The Florida RLC is supportive of his candidacy for these reasons,
                >recognizing that neither of the other two candidates for the job are
                >Ron Paul or Jeff Flake.

                I've done more research on Shadegg now, and I agree he'd be a step
                forward. The other two are really completely uninspiring. You can
                read my overall assessment of the candidates at http://www.diablog.us

                Shadegg is at the very least talking a good game as far as reform
                and his objectives.

                Dave
                --

                Tasty Thoughts from the Elitist Pig
                http://www.elitistpig.com
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