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RI adoption records opened to adoptees 25 & older

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  • Lisa Lepore
    I just read this in the projo.com Really big news. I had no idea this was even being considered, but in my opinion it s a great thing. PROVIDENCE, R.I. --
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 1, 2012
      I just read this in the projo.com

      Really big news. I had no idea this was even being considered, but in my
      opinion it's a great thing.


      PROVIDENCE, R.I. -- Starting today, Rhode Island-born adoptees age 25 and
      older
      may request non-certified copies of their original, unaltered birth
      certificates
      from the State Office of Vital Records, as the Health Department prepares to
      carry out a new law.

      It goes on to say they won't be released until July, but they would like
      people to start sending in
      their requests now so they won't be bombarded all on one day.

      Lisa
    • Nancy Ann Norman
      Lisa, I think it is a great idea also. Hope it goes national. Nancy Ann ________________________________ From: Lisa Lepore To:
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 2, 2012
        Lisa,
        I think it is a great idea also. Hope it goes national.
        Nancy Ann


        ________________________________
        From: Lisa Lepore <llepore@...>
        To: RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 3:38 PM
        Subject: [RI_Ancestors] RI adoption records opened to adoptees 25 & older



         

        I just read this in the projo.com

        Really big news. I had no idea this was even being considered, but in my
        opinion it's a great thing.

        PROVIDENCE, R.I. -- Starting today, Rhode Island-born adoptees age 25 and
        older
        may request non-certified copies of their original, unaltered birth
        certificates
        from the State Office of Vital Records, as the Health Department prepares to
        carry out a new law.

        It goes on to say they won't be released until July, but they would like
        people to start sending in
        their requests now so they won't be bombarded all on one day.

        Lisa




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Stacie Heyen
        I too agree, my grandmother was adopted in 1926, and died 2008, and even NOW they are still telling us, they cant open anything until 100 years after the fact
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 2, 2012
          I too agree, my grandmother was adopted in 1926, and died 2008, and even
          NOW they are still telling us, they cant open anything until 100 years
          after the fact of the adoption, OY! Tho a few years ago, I was sent a
          letter saying, "If you can find your grandmothers birth mother and have her
          give permission to open the records, we will do so."
          I think I see about 5 things wrong with that sentence!
          Stacie

          On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Nancy Ann Norman
          <nancyannnorman@...>wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > Lisa,
          > I think it is a great idea also. Hope it goes national.
          > Nancy Ann
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Lisa Lepore <llepore@...>
          > To: RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 3:38 PM
          > Subject: [RI_Ancestors] RI adoption records opened to adoptees 25 & older
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I just read this in the projo.com
          >
          > Really big news. I had no idea this was even being considered, but in my
          > opinion it's a great thing.
          >
          > PROVIDENCE, R.I. -- Starting today, Rhode Island-born adoptees age 25 and
          > older
          > may request non-certified copies of their original, unaltered birth
          > certificates
          > from the State Office of Vital Records, as the Health Department prepares
          > to
          > carry out a new law.
          >
          > It goes on to say they won't be released until July, but they would like
          > people to start sending in
          > their requests now so they won't be bombarded all on one day.
          >
          > Lisa
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Maure Briggs- Carrington
          LOL !!! Maure Briggs- Carrington http://www.flickr.com/photos/7279921@N03/ http://shop.ebay.com/Maureclaire71/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 2, 2012
            LOL !!!





            Maure Briggs- Carrington

            http://www.flickr.com/photos/7279921@N03/

            http://shop.ebay.com/Maureclaire71/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1

            http://www.myspace.com/maurejsa54

            http://glittervision.blogspot.com/

            http://www.facebook.com/gettingstarted.php#/profile.php?ref=profile&id=100000539360718

            "There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness." The Dali Llama





            -----Original Message-----
            From: Stacie Heyen <sheyen.goble@...>
            To: RI_Ancestors <RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Fri, Mar 2, 2012 12:27 pm
            Subject: Re: [RI_Ancestors] RI adoption records opened to adoptees 25 & older


            I too agree, my grandmother was adopted in 1926, and died 2008, and even
            NOW they are still telling us, they cant open anything until 100 years
            after the fact of the adoption, OY! Tho a few years ago, I was sent a
            letter saying, "If you can find your grandmothers birth mother and have her
            give permission to open the records, we will do so."
            I think I see about 5 things wrong with that sentence!
            Stacie

            On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Nancy Ann Norman
            <nancyannnorman@...>wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > Lisa,
            > I think it is a great idea also. Hope it goes national.
            > Nancy Ann
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Lisa Lepore <llepore@...>
            > To: RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 3:38 PM
            > Subject: [RI_Ancestors] RI adoption records opened to adoptees 25 & older
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > I just read this in the projo.com
            >
            > Really big news. I had no idea this was even being considered, but in my
            > opinion it's a great thing.
            >
            > PROVIDENCE, R.I. -- Starting today, Rhode Island-born adoptees age 25 and
            > older
            > may request non-certified copies of their original, unaltered birth
            > certificates
            > from the State Office of Vital Records, as the Health Department prepares
            > to
            > carry out a new law.
            >
            > It goes on to say they won't be released until July, but they would like
            > people to start sending in
            > their requests now so they won't be bombarded all on one day.
            >
            > Lisa
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ------------------------------------

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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Alan Clarke
            ... Indeed. How would you like to be the bureaucrat who published that for all to see? And then... how would you like to be someone who doesn t see the folly
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 2, 2012
              On 3/2/12 12:27 PM, Stacie Heyen wrote:
              > I too agree, my grandmother was adopted in 1926, and died 2008, and even
              > NOW they are still telling us, they cant open anything until 100 years
              > after the fact of the adoption, OY! Tho a few years ago, I was sent a
              > letter saying, "If you can find your grandmothers birth mother and have her
              > give permission to open the records, we will do so."
              > I think I see about 5 things wrong with that sentence!
              > Stacie
              Indeed.
              How would you like to be the bureaucrat who published that for all to see?
              And then... how would you like to be someone who doesn't see the folly
              of it?

              But in the name of dialog, have we reached the tipping point where the
              privacy of the birth mother is superseded by the curiosity of the child
              to know from whence he or she came? I can see going forth, but what
              happened to "grandfather rights" and past promises made? Not being
              adopted, of course, I have no chips on this table. Just curious.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Stacie Heyen
              I realize that my grandmothers adoption happened years ago. Here is my feelings on it, if you are a mother giving up your child for adoption, and you do NOT
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 2, 2012
                I realize that my grandmothers adoption happened years ago.
                Here is my feelings on it, if you are a mother giving up your child for
                adoption, and you do NOT want to be known or found, here is what you should
                do. Write a letter to that child, keeping it with a lawyer, or their
                records or whatever, to be opened when they are 18 or 21, or whatever you
                decide. Explain your reasons, add names, dates, any family health
                problems, etc. But if you don't want to be found, explain that, saying
                something like "I am sorry, but I need to get on with my life, what has
                happened was not a choice I wanted to make, but its the choice I have to
                make."
                I see this from all points of view, my grandmother was adopted, so I am
                searching for her family, I never could have children, so I adopted two
                girls and three boys. They all know who their birth parents are, I have
                never lied to them, or kept it from them, because its part of who they are.
                I think the letter idea is a good thing, because too many children, they
                often feel "well, I was never loved, never wanted, I wasnt good enough to
                be kept." If there is something, a letter, a statement, anything, then it
                gives that child at least some type of comfort.

                Somehow my grandmother was fortunate enough in 1942 (how she did it, I have
                no clue!) she got her adoption records and her original birth certificate.
                It gives her parents names, dates, etc, but I have a feeling that her
                mother either lied, or mislead on a couple of things. Having found her
                father (prior to the marriage and adoption) and his family, I know dates
                and names, and places were mispelled/misrepresented. Still do not know
                what happened to her parents after they gave her and her brother up, but Im
                searching!

                On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Alan Clarke <bozone@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > On 3/2/12 12:27 PM, Stacie Heyen wrote:
                > > I too agree, my grandmother was adopted in 1926, and died 2008, and even
                > > NOW they are still telling us, they cant open anything until 100 years
                > > after the fact of the adoption, OY! Tho a few years ago, I was sent a
                > > letter saying, "If you can find your grandmothers birth mother and have
                > her
                > > give permission to open the records, we will do so."
                > > I think I see about 5 things wrong with that sentence!
                > > Stacie
                > Indeed.
                > How would you like to be the bureaucrat who published that for all to see?
                > And then... how would you like to be someone who doesn't see the folly
                > of it?
                >
                > But in the name of dialog, have we reached the tipping point where the
                > privacy of the birth mother is superseded by the curiosity of the child
                > to know from whence he or she came? I can see going forth, but what
                > happened to "grandfather rights" and past promises made? Not being
                > adopted, of course, I have no chips on this table. Just curious.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lisa Lepore
                Well I know it s a difficult situation, but to me a person should have the right to know who they are. And yes, I think that outweighs the privacy of the
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 3, 2012
                  Well I know it's a difficult situation, but to me a person should have the
                  right to know

                  who they are. And yes, I think that outweighs the privacy of the birth
                  mother. I don't

                  think all birth mothers want that so called privacy, either. Many of them
                  were young

                  girls with no options and no choices. Social stigma of the times demanded
                  the baby

                  be put up for adoption, whether the birthmother agreed or not.



                  I have a different slant than you because my mother was adopted. So I know
                  what's it

                  like for a person to feel something is missing.



                  My mother was fortunate enough to meet her birth mother, who was in her late
                  80's at

                  the time. She told my mother not a day went by that she didn't think about
                  her, but she

                  was not able to find out what happened to her.



                  My mother was able to see her original birth record because, like the letter
                  below states

                  she found her birth parents' names through hunting around on her own.



                  This privacy of records didn't seem to occur until the mid 1940's I always
                  wonder what

                  were the circumstances that made this a hot topic then?



                  Lisa



                  From: RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Alan Clarke
                  Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 1:00 PM
                  To: RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [RI_Ancestors] RI adoption records opened to adoptees 25 &
                  older





                  On 3/2/12 12:27 PM, Stacie Heyen wrote:
                  > I too agree, my grandmother was adopted in 1926, and died 2008, and even
                  > NOW they are still telling us, they cant open anything until 100 years
                  > after the fact of the adoption, OY! Tho a few years ago, I was sent a
                  > letter saying, "If you can find your grandmothers birth mother and have
                  her
                  > give permission to open the records, we will do so."
                  > I think I see about 5 things wrong with that sentence!
                  > Stacie
                  Indeed.
                  How would you like to be the bureaucrat who published that for all to see?
                  And then... how would you like to be someone who doesn't see the folly
                  of it?

                  But in the name of dialog, have we reached the tipping point where the
                  privacy of the birth mother is superseded by the curiosity of the child
                  to know from whence he or she came? I can see going forth, but what
                  happened to "grandfather rights" and past promises made? Not being
                  adopted, of course, I have no chips on this table. Just curious.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Lisa Lepore
                  I agree with you 100%. My mother didn t find out she was adopted until she was an adult, and I think that is just wrong. It s great that your children know
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 3, 2012
                    I agree with you 100%. My mother didn't find out she was adopted until
                    she was an adult, and I think that is just wrong.

                    It's great that your children know who their birthparents are. I think
                    the adoptees who go looking for their birthparents are primarily the ones
                    who don't know anything, and as you say, just want some information on the
                    circumstances that led to them being given up.

                    From what I can tell, it was sometime during the 1940's when all these
                    records
                    were sealed up. Your grandmother must have just lucked out by looking when
                    the records were still available.

                    Lisa

                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com]
                    On
                    > Behalf Of Stacie Heyen
                    > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 1:20 PM
                    > To: RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [RI_Ancestors] RI adoption records opened to adoptees 25 &
                    > older
                    >
                    > I realize that my grandmothers adoption happened years ago.
                    > Here is my feelings on it, if you are a mother giving up your child for
                    > adoption, and you do NOT want to be known or found, here is what you
                    should
                    > do. Write a letter to that child, keeping it with a lawyer, or their
                    > records or whatever, to be opened when they are 18 or 21, or whatever you
                    > decide. Explain your reasons, add names, dates, any family health
                    > problems, etc. But if you don't want to be found, explain that, saying
                    > something like "I am sorry, but I need to get on with my life, what has
                    > happened was not a choice I wanted to make, but its the choice I have to
                    > make."
                    > I see this from all points of view, my grandmother was adopted, so I am
                    > searching for her family, I never could have children, so I adopted two
                    > girls and three boys. They all know who their birth parents are, I have
                    > never lied to them, or kept it from them, because its part of who they
                    are.
                    > I think the letter idea is a good thing, because too many children, they
                    > often feel "well, I was never loved, never wanted, I wasnt good enough to
                    > be kept." If there is something, a letter, a statement, anything, then it
                    > gives that child at least some type of comfort.
                    >
                    > Somehow my grandmother was fortunate enough in 1942 (how she did it, I
                    have
                    > no clue!) she got her adoption records and her original birth certificate.
                    > It gives her parents names, dates, etc, but I have a feeling that her
                    > mother either lied, or mislead on a couple of things. Having found her
                    > father (prior to the marriage and adoption) and his family, I know dates
                    > and names, and places were mispelled/misrepresented. Still do not know
                    > what happened to her parents after they gave her and her brother up, but
                    Im
                    > searching!
                    >
                    > On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Alan Clarke <bozone@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > **
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On 3/2/12 12:27 PM, Stacie Heyen wrote:
                    > > > I too agree, my grandmother was adopted in 1926, and died 2008, and
                    > > > even NOW they are still telling us, they cant open anything until
                    > > > 100 years after the fact of the adoption, OY! Tho a few years ago, I
                    > > > was sent a letter saying, "If you can find your grandmothers birth
                    > > > mother and have
                    > > her
                    > > > give permission to open the records, we will do so."
                    > > > I think I see about 5 things wrong with that sentence!
                    > > > Stacie
                    > > Indeed.
                    > > How would you like to be the bureaucrat who published that for all to
                    > see?
                    > > And then... how would you like to be someone who doesn't see the folly
                    > > of it?
                    > >
                    > > But in the name of dialog, have we reached the tipping point where the
                    > > privacy of the birth mother is superseded by the curiosity of the
                    > > child to know from whence he or she came? I can see going forth, but
                    > > what happened to "grandfather rights" and past promises made? Not
                    > > being adopted, of course, I have no chips on this table. Just curious.
                    > >
                  • Alan Clarke
                    I realize there is no simple solution to such a complex situation but perhaps a birth mother should be told that a child she put up for adoption wants to
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 3, 2012
                      I realize there is no simple solution to such a complex situation but
                      perhaps a birth mother should be told that a child she put up for
                      adoption wants to contact her and let her decide. I'm sure that with the
                      passing of time, the situation of birth mothers - such as you have
                      described below - have changed and she might welcome meeting her child,
                      where she couldn't/wouldn't earlier in life.

                      Hey, I'm a guy, but if I found out I had a child I never knew about, I'd
                      welcome meeting him or her. I'm also into family history and adding
                      another line to the tree is always a good thing. By now, that child
                      would be in the 40s or 50s. I would probably be ticked off that I never
                      knew, which indicates to me that this really is a complex situation and
                      perhaps the best solution is to ask the birth (parent) first. Yes, this
                      also applies to fathers. Maybe not so much. Depends on the father.

                      On 3/3/12 10:20 AM, Lisa Lepore wrote:
                      >
                      > Well I know it's a difficult situation, but to me a person should have the
                      > right to know
                      >
                      > who they are. And yes, I think that outweighs the privacy of the birth
                      > mother. I don't
                      >
                      > think all birth mothers want that so called privacy, either. Many of them
                      > were young
                      >
                      > girls with no options and no choices. Social stigma of the times demanded
                      > the baby
                      >
                      > be put up for adoption, whether the birthmother agreed or not.
                      >
                      > I have a different slant than you because my mother was adopted. So I know
                      > what's it
                      >
                      > like for a person to feel something is missing.
                      >
                      > My mother was fortunate enough to meet her birth mother, who was in
                      > her late
                      > 80's at
                      >
                      > the time. She told my mother not a day went by that she didn't think about
                      > her, but she
                      >
                      > was not able to find out what happened to her.
                      >
                      > My mother was able to see her original birth record because, like the
                      > letter
                      > below states
                      >
                      > she found her birth parents' names through hunting around on her own.
                      >
                      > This privacy of records didn't seem to occur until the mid 1940's I always
                      > wonder what
                      >
                      > were the circumstances that made this a hot topic then?
                      >
                      > Lisa
                      >
                      > From: RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:RI_Ancestors%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > [mailto:RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:RI_Ancestors%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                      > Behalf Of Alan Clarke
                      > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 1:00 PM
                      > To: RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RI_Ancestors%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > Subject: Re: [RI_Ancestors] RI adoption records opened to adoptees 25 &
                      > older
                      >
                      > On 3/2/12 12:27 PM, Stacie Heyen wrote:
                      > > I too agree, my grandmother was adopted in 1926, and died 2008, and even
                      > > NOW they are still telling us, they cant open anything until 100 years
                      > > after the fact of the adoption, OY! Tho a few years ago, I was sent a
                      > > letter saying, "If you can find your grandmothers birth mother and have
                      > her
                      > > give permission to open the records, we will do so."
                      > > I think I see about 5 things wrong with that sentence!
                      > > Stacie
                      > Indeed.
                      > How would you like to be the bureaucrat who published that for all to see?
                      > And then... how would you like to be someone who doesn't see the folly
                      > of it?
                      >
                      > But in the name of dialog, have we reached the tipping point where the
                      > privacy of the birth mother is superseded by the curiosity of the child
                      > to know from whence he or she came? I can see going forth, but what
                      > happened to "grandfather rights" and past promises made? Not being
                      > adopted, of course, I have no chips on this table. Just curious.
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Lisa Lepore
                      Of course there is no simple answer. Hopefully, if the birthmother did not want contact with the child, the child would respect that, but at the same time
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 3, 2012
                        Of course there is no simple answer. Hopefully, if the birthmother did not

                        want contact with the child, the child would respect that, but at the same
                        time

                        would still be able to know something about his birthparents - some health
                        information,

                        at the least.



                        I don't think the birth father had much of a say about anything back then.
                        I do think

                        they have a say today.



                        Lisa





                        From: RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of Alan Clarke
                        Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 10:42 AM
                        To: RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [RI_Ancestors] RI adoption records opened to adoptees 25 &
                        older





                        I realize there is no simple solution to such a complex situation but
                        perhaps a birth mother should be told that a child she put up for
                        adoption wants to contact her and let her decide. I'm sure that with the
                        passing of time, the situation of birth mothers - such as you have
                        described below - have changed and she might welcome meeting her child,
                        where she couldn't/wouldn't earlier in life.

                        Hey, I'm a guy, but if I found out I had a child I never knew about, I'd
                        welcome meeting him or her. I'm also into family history and adding
                        another line to the tree is always a good thing. By now, that child
                        would be in the 40s or 50s. I would probably be ticked off that I never
                        knew, which indicates to me that this really is a complex situation and
                        perhaps the best solution is to ask the birth (parent) first. Yes, this
                        also applies to fathers. Maybe not so much. Depends on the father.

                        On 3/3/12 10:20 AM, Lisa Lepore wrote:
                        >
                        > Well I know it's a difficult situation, but to me a person should have the
                        > right to know
                        >
                        > who they are. And yes, I think that outweighs the privacy of the birth
                        > mother. I don't
                        >
                        > think all birth mothers want that so called privacy, either. Many of them
                        > were young
                        >
                        > girls with no options and no choices. Social stigma of the times demanded
                        > the baby
                        >
                        > be put up for adoption, whether the birthmother agreed or not.
                        >
                        > I have a different slant than you because my mother was adopted. So I know
                        > what's it
                        >
                        > like for a person to feel something is missing.
                        >
                        > My mother was fortunate enough to meet her birth mother, who was in
                        > her late
                        > 80's at
                        >
                        > the time. She told my mother not a day went by that she didn't think about
                        > her, but she
                        >
                        > was not able to find out what happened to her.
                        >
                        > My mother was able to see her original birth record because, like the
                        > letter
                        > below states
                        >
                        > she found her birth parents' names through hunting around on her own.
                        >
                        > This privacy of records didn't seem to occur until the mid 1940's I always
                        > wonder what
                        >
                        > were the circumstances that made this a hot topic then?
                        >
                        > Lisa
                        >
                        > From: RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RI_Ancestors%40yahoogroups.com>

                        > <mailto:RI_Ancestors%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > [mailto:RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com
                        <mailto:RI_Ancestors%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > <mailto:RI_Ancestors%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                        > Behalf Of Alan Clarke
                        > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 1:00 PM
                        > To: RI_Ancestors@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RI_Ancestors%40yahoogroups.com>
                        <mailto:RI_Ancestors%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > Subject: Re: [RI_Ancestors] RI adoption records opened to adoptees 25 &
                        > older
                        >
                        > On 3/2/12 12:27 PM, Stacie Heyen wrote:
                        > > I too agree, my grandmother was adopted in 1926, and died 2008, and even
                        > > NOW they are still telling us, they cant open anything until 100 years
                        > > after the fact of the adoption, OY! Tho a few years ago, I was sent a
                        > > letter saying, "If you can find your grandmothers birth mother and have
                        > her
                        > > give permission to open the records, we will do so."
                        > > I think I see about 5 things wrong with that sentence!
                        > > Stacie
                        > Indeed.
                        > How would you like to be the bureaucrat who published that for all to see?
                        > And then... how would you like to be someone who doesn't see the folly
                        > of it?
                        >
                        > But in the name of dialog, have we reached the tipping point where the
                        > privacy of the birth mother is superseded by the curiosity of the child
                        > to know from whence he or she came? I can see going forth, but what
                        > happened to "grandfather rights" and past promises made? Not being
                        > adopted, of course, I have no chips on this table. Just curious.
                        >

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