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Tracking speed and guiding

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  • Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D.
    Hey Guys, I m trying to fine tune my tracking, guiding and PEC settings and seem to be having some difficulties and wondering if anybody has any more ideas. My
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 2, 2013
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      Hey Guys,

      I’m trying to fine tune my tracking, guiding and PEC settings and seem to be having some difficulties and wondering if anybody has any more ideas. My 12” RCX400 with a DSI Pro II mounted on it has been used for all measurements and corrections, since my QSI won’t connect up in PEMPro 2. When I guide in PHD the RA seems to vary up and down on the graph rather “periodically”, sometimes going clear off the top and bottom after everything I have done. My stars are mostly smeared along with all the other details in my image in the RA direction, makes sense. I have worked on the PE in PEMPro for several days over the last week or so and seemed to have reduced the PE from about 35 down to 8 arcsec or so, seems pretty good, but…. I don’t see much difference in the PHD guiding since achieving this. I thought, well maybe the tracking speed might be off and causing this so I tried working on that some tonight, but the darn clouds rolled in and that was the end of that! The method used to watch the tracking was to start PHD, loop images with a grid on screen and watch the movement of the star without guiding an see if it was running east or west and adjusting the tracking rate up or down in the custoM setting (thanks to Dick’s patch) but it always seemed to go too far either way with even 1 or 2 – or + settings (- 0.01 or + 0.01 sidereal). Am I beating a dead horse here and need to go back to the PE corrections and try harder? Any suggestions?

       

      Steve

      Stephen C. Mitchell, Sr, OD

      Scopehill Observatory

      www.Scopehill.com

      12", RCX400

       

    • ldjhandm
      Hello Steve My feeling is that you have to start at square 1: when you have completed a successful run with PEMPro you should be able to let your telescope
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 3, 2013
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        Hello Steve

        My feeling is that you have to start at square 1: when you have completed a successful run with PEMPro you should be able to let your telescope track alone. Do images of 30 sec, 60 sec and 90 sec alone - no guiding whatsoever. When PEMPro has done its stuff the images should be largely OK with minimal drift. Have you done this yet?

        When the above test produces a good result then your PEC is now fine. Anything done afterwards with any guiding system should improve on this. If the guiding software doesn't improve - then its probably not yet been set up properly. But at least you will know where the problem lies!

        Let us know.

        good luck

        Lawrence

        --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hey Guys,
        > I'm trying to fine tune my tracking, guiding and PEC settings and seem to be having some difficulties and wondering if anybody has any more ideas. My 12" RCX400 with a DSI Pro II mounted on it has been used for all measurements and corrections, since my QSI won't connect up in PEMPro 2. When I guide in PHD the RA seems to vary up and down on the graph rather "periodically", sometimes going clear off the top and bottom after everything I have done. My stars are mostly smeared along with all the other details in my image in the RA direction, makes sense. I have worked on the PE in PEMPro for several days over the last week or so and seemed to have reduced the PE from about 35 down to 8 arcsec or so, seems pretty good, but.... I don't see much difference in the PHD guiding since achieving this. I thought, well maybe the tracking speed might be off and causing this so I tried working on that some tonight, but the darn clouds rolled in and that was the end of that! The method used to watch the tracking was to start PHD, loop images with a grid on screen and watch the movement of the star without guiding an see if it was running east or west and adjusting the tracking rate up or down in the custoM setting (thanks to Dick's patch) but it always seemed to go too far either way with even 1 or 2 - or + settings (- 0.01 or + 0.01 sidereal). Am I beating a dead horse here and need to go back to the PE corrections and try harder? Any suggestions?
        >
        > Steve
        > Stephen C. Mitchell, Sr, OD
        > Scopehill Observatory
        > www.Scopehill.com<http://www.scopehill.com/>
        > 12", RCX400
        >
      • Bob
        Hi Steve, I use PHD for guiding also. You mentioned you set your tracking rate but what about the guidng rate? I set mine at +50 instead of the default of +66.
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 3, 2013
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          Hi Steve,

          I use PHD for guiding also. You mentioned you set your tracking rate but what about the guidng rate? I set mine at +50 instead of the default of +66.

          How is your polar alignment?

          - Bob



          --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "ldjhandm" <lawrence@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Steve
          >
          > My feeling is that you have to start at square 1: when you have completed a successful run with PEMPro you should be able to let your telescope track alone. Do images of 30 sec, 60 sec and 90 sec alone - no guiding whatsoever. When PEMPro has done its stuff the images should be largely OK with minimal drift. Have you done this yet?
          >
          > When the above test produces a good result then your PEC is now fine. Anything done afterwards with any guiding system should improve on this. If the guiding software doesn't improve - then its probably not yet been set up properly. But at least you will know where the problem lies!
          >
          > Let us know.
          >
          > good luck
          >
          > Lawrence
          >
          > --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hey Guys,
          > > I'm trying to fine tune my tracking, guiding and PEC settings and seem to be having some difficulties and wondering if anybody has any more ideas. My 12" RCX400 with a DSI Pro II mounted on it has been used for all measurements and corrections, since my QSI won't connect up in PEMPro 2. When I guide in PHD the RA seems to vary up and down on the graph rather "periodically", sometimes going clear off the top and bottom after everything I have done. My stars are mostly smeared along with all the other details in my image in the RA direction, makes sense. I have worked on the PE in PEMPro for several days over the last week or so and seemed to have reduced the PE from about 35 down to 8 arcsec or so, seems pretty good, but.... I don't see much difference in the PHD guiding since achieving this. I thought, well maybe the tracking speed might be off and causing this so I tried working on that some tonight, but the darn clouds rolled in and that was the end of that! The method used to watch the tracking was to start PHD, loop images with a grid on screen and watch the movement of the star without guiding an see if it was running east or west and adjusting the tracking rate up or down in the custoM setting (thanks to Dick's patch) but it always seemed to go too far either way with even 1 or 2 - or + settings (- 0.01 or + 0.01 sidereal). Am I beating a dead horse here and need to go back to the PE corrections and try harder? Any suggestions?
          > >
          > > Steve
          > > Stephen C. Mitchell, Sr, OD
          > > Scopehill Observatory
          > > www.Scopehill.com<http://www.scopehill.com/>
          > > 12", RCX400
          > >
          >
        • Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D.
          Great advice Lawrence, thanks! I have not done that test, it sounds like a great idea. I simply tried to watch tracking on a fine grid and watched the star
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 3, 2013
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            Great advice Lawrence, thanks! I have not done that test, it sounds like a great idea. I simply tried to watch tracking on a fine grid and watched the star drifting. I suspect images would still be blurred, but that is the next step I’ll take in the quest for success. The clouds have rolled in again, it’s coming up on dark of the Moon so it’s seems to be inevitable around here. I suspect the PEC isn’t as good as it needs to be, hopefully I can further improve upon it in PEMPro.

            Thanks again,

             

            Steve 

             

            Stephen C Mitchell Sr OD

            Scopehill Observatory

            www.Scopehill.com

             

             

             

            From: RCX400@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ldjhandm
            Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:33 PM
            To: RCX400@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [RCX400] Re: Tracking speed and guiding

             

             

            Hello Steve

            My feeling is that you have to start at square 1: when you have completed a successful run with PEMPro you should be able to let your telescope track alone. Do images of 30 sec, 60 sec and 90 sec alone - no guiding whatsoever. When PEMPro has done its stuff the images should be largely OK with minimal drift. Have you done this yet?

            When the above test produces a good result then your PEC is now fine. Anything done afterwards with any guiding system should improve on this. If the guiding software doesn't improve - then its probably not yet been set up properly. But at least you will know where the problem lies!

            Let us know.

            good luck

            Lawrence

            --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hey Guys,
            > I'm trying to fine tune my tracking, guiding and PEC settings and seem to be having some difficulties and wondering if anybody has any more ideas. My 12" RCX400 with a DSI Pro II mounted on it has been used for all measurements and corrections, since my QSI won't connect up in PEMPro 2. When I guide in PHD the RA seems to vary up and down on the graph rather "periodically", sometimes going clear off the top and bottom after everything I have done. My stars are mostly smeared along with all the other details in my image in the RA direction, makes sense. I have worked on the PE in PEMPro for several days over the last week or so and seemed to have reduced the PE from about 35 down to 8 arcsec or so, seems pretty good, but.... I don't see much difference in the PHD guiding since achieving this. I thought, well maybe the tracking speed might be off and causing this so I tried working on that some tonight, but the darn clouds rolled in and that was the end of that! The method used to watch the tracking was to start PHD, loop images with a grid on screen and watch the movement of the star without guiding an see if it was running east or west and adjusting the tracking rate up or down in the custoM setting (thanks to Dick's patch) but it always seemed to go too far either way with even 1 or 2 - or + settings (- 0.01 or + 0.01 sidereal). Am I beating a dead horse here and need to go back to the PE corrections and try harder? Any suggestions?
            >
            > Steve
            > Stephen C. Mitchell, Sr, OD
            > Scopehill Observatory
            > www.Scopehill.com<http://www.scopehill.com/>
            > 12", RCX400
            >

          • Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D.
            Hey Bob, No I have not messed with the guiding rate yet. It seems Jason Ware has advised something like +20 or +25 rather than the standard +66. Do you change
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 3, 2013
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              Hey Bob,

              No I have not messed with the guiding rate yet. It seems Jason Ware has advised something like +20 or +25 rather than the standard +66. Do you change the rate and then calibrate PHD or calibrate at the standard rate and then change to +50? I have in the past messed a little with this but didn’t see much difference, but I knew the PEC was way off so wondered if that was the problem then.

              More clues of things to look at, thanks guys!

               

              Steve 

               

              Stephen C Mitchell Sr OD

              Scopehill Observatory

              www.Scopehill.com

               

               

               

              From: RCX400@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob
              Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 6:16 PM
              To: RCX400@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [RCX400] Re: Tracking speed and guiding

               

               


              Hi Steve,

              I use PHD for guiding also. You mentioned you set your tracking rate but what about the guidng rate? I set mine at +50 instead of the default of +66.

              How is your polar alignment?

              - Bob

              --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "ldjhandm" <lawrence@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Steve
              >
              > My feeling is that you have to start at square 1: when you have completed a successful run with PEMPro you should be able to let your telescope track alone. Do images of 30 sec, 60 sec and 90 sec alone - no guiding whatsoever. When PEMPro has done its stuff the images should be largely OK with minimal drift. Have you done this yet?
              >
              > When the above test produces a good result then your PEC is now fine. Anything done afterwards with any guiding system should improve on this. If the guiding software doesn't improve - then its probably not yet been set up properly. But at least you will know where the problem lies!
              >
              > Let us know.
              >
              > good luck
              >
              > Lawrence
              >
              > --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hey Guys,
              > > I'm trying to fine tune my tracking, guiding and PEC settings and seem to be having some difficulties and wondering if anybody has any more ideas. My 12" RCX400 with a DSI Pro II mounted on it has been used for all measurements and corrections, since my QSI won't connect up in PEMPro 2. When I guide in PHD the RA seems to vary up and down on the graph rather "periodically", sometimes going clear off the top and bottom after everything I have done. My stars are mostly smeared along with all the other details in my image in the RA direction, makes sense. I have worked on the PE in PEMPro for several days over the last week or so and seemed to have reduced the PE from about 35 down to 8 arcsec or so, seems pretty good, but.... I don't see much difference in the PHD guiding since achieving this. I thought, well maybe the tracking speed might be off and causing this so I tried working on that some tonight, but the darn clouds rolled in and that was the end of that! The method used to watch the tracking was to start PHD, loop images with a grid on screen and watch the movement of the star without guiding an see if it was running east or west and adjusting the tracking rate up or down in the custoM setting (thanks to Dick's patch) but it always seemed to go too far either way with even 1 or 2 - or + settings (- 0.01 or + 0.01 sidereal). Am I beating a dead horse here and need to go back to the PE corrections and try harder? Any suggestions?
              > >
              > > Steve
              > > Stephen C. Mitchell, Sr, OD
              > > Scopehill Observatory
              > > www.Scopehill.com<http://www.scopehill.com/>
              > > 12", RCX400
              > >
              >

            • Jason Ware
              The rcx will ignore inputs less than 20 ms. If the guide rate is too high the guiding software send short pulses for small moves. They get ignored. By guiding
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 3, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                The rcx will ignore inputs less than 20 ms. If the guide rate is too high the guiding software send short pulses for small moves. They get ignored. By guiding at 20% the guide software sends longer pulses 

                Sent from my iPhone

                On Apr 3, 2013, at 11:50 PM, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@...> wrote:

                 

                Hey Bob,

                No I have not messed with the guiding rate yet. It seems Jason Ware has advised something like +20 or +25 rather than the standard +66. Do you change the rate and then calibrate PHD or calibrate at the standard rate and then change to +50? I have in the past messed a little with this but didn’t see much difference, but I knew the PEC was way off so wondered if that was the problem then.

                More clues of things to look at, thanks guys!

                 

                Steve 

                 

                Stephen C Mitchell Sr OD

                Scopehill Observatory

                www.Scopehill.com

                 

                 

                 

                From: RCX400@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob
                Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 6:16 PM
                To: RCX400@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [RCX400] Re: Tracking speed and guiding

                 

                 


                Hi Steve,

                I use PHD for guiding also. You mentioned you set your tracking rate but what about the guidng rate? I set mine at +50 instead of the default of +66.

                How is your polar alignment?

                - Bob

                --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "ldjhandm" <lawrence@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Steve
                >
                > My feeling is that you have to start at square 1: when you have completed a successful run with PEMPro you should be able to let your telescope track alone. Do images of 30 sec, 60 sec and 90 sec alone - no guiding whatsoever. When PEMPro has done its stuff the images should be largely OK with minimal drift. Have you done this yet?
                >
                > When the above test produces a good result then your PEC is now fine. Anything done afterwards with any guiding system should improve on this. If the guiding software doesn't improve - then its probably not yet been set up properly. But at least you will know where the problem lies!
                >
                > Let us know.
                >
                > good luck
                >
                > Lawrence
                >
                > --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hey Guys,
                > > I'm trying to fine tune my tracking, guiding and PEC settings and seem to be having some difficulties and wondering if anybody has any more ideas. My 12" RCX400 with a DSI Pro II mounted on it has been used for all measurements and corrections, since my QSI won't connect up in PEMPro 2. When I guide in PHD the RA seems to vary up and down on the graph rather "periodically", sometimes going clear off the top and bottom after everything I have done. My stars are mostly smeared along with all the other details in my image in the RA direction, makes sense. I have worked on the PE in PEMPro for several days over the last week or so and seemed to have reduced the PE from about 35 down to 8 arcsec or so, seems pretty good, but.... I don't see much difference in the PHD guiding since achieving this. I thought, well maybe the tracking speed might be off and causing this so I tried working on that some tonight, but the darn clouds rolled in and that was the end of that! The method used to watch the tracking was to start PHD, loop images with a grid on screen and watch the movement of the star without guiding an see if it was running east or west and adjusting the tracking rate up or down in the custoM setting (thanks to Dick's patch) but it always seemed to go too far either way with even 1 or 2 - or + settings (- 0.01 or + 0.01 sidereal). Am I beating a dead horse here and need to go back to the PE corrections and try harder? Any suggestions?
                > >
                > > Steve
                > > Stephen C. Mitchell, Sr, OD
                > > Scopehill Observatory
                > > www.Scopehill.com<http://www.scopehill.com/>
                > > 12", RCX400
                > >
                >

              • Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D.
                Hey Jason, Thanks for chiming in here Jason, I thought that is what I remembered you saying. Still I wonder, do you calibrate PHD or your guiding software of
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 3, 2013
                • 0 Attachment

                  Hey Jason,

                  Thanks for chiming in here Jason, I thought that is what I remembered you saying. Still I wonder, do you calibrate PHD or your guiding software of choice, at the said +20? Or do you calibrate first and then change the rate?

                   

                  Steve 

                   

                  Stephen C Mitchell Sr OD

                  Scopehill Observatory

                  www.Scopehill.com

                   

                   

                   

                  From: RCX400@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Ware
                  Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 11:00 PM
                  To: RCX400@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [RCX400] Re: Tracking speed and guiding

                   

                   

                  The rcx will ignore inputs less than 20 ms. If the guide rate is too high the guiding software send short pulses for small moves. They get ignored. By guiding at 20% the guide software sends longer pulses 

                  Sent from my iPhone


                  On Apr 3, 2013, at 11:50 PM, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@...> wrote:

                   

                  Hey Bob,

                  No I have not messed with the guiding rate yet. It seems Jason Ware has advised something like +20 or +25 rather than the standard +66. Do you change the rate and then calibrate PHD or calibrate at the standard rate and then change to +50? I have in the past messed a little with this but didn’t see much difference, but I knew the PEC was way off so wondered if that was the problem then.

                  More clues of things to look at, thanks guys!

                   

                  Steve 

                   

                  Stephen C Mitchell Sr OD

                  Scopehill Observatory

                  www.Scopehill.com

                   

                   

                   

                  From: RCX400@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob
                  Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 6:16 PM
                  To: RCX400@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [RCX400] Re: Tracking speed and guiding

                   

                   


                  Hi Steve,

                  I use PHD for guiding also. You mentioned you set your tracking rate but what about the guidng rate? I set mine at +50 instead of the default of +66.

                  How is your polar alignment?

                  - Bob

                  --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "ldjhandm" <lawrence@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Steve
                  >
                  > My feeling is that you have to start at square 1: when you have completed a successful run with PEMPro you should be able to let your telescope track alone. Do images of 30 sec, 60 sec and 90 sec alone - no guiding whatsoever. When PEMPro has done its stuff the images should be largely OK with minimal drift. Have you done this yet?
                  >
                  > When the above test produces a good result then your PEC is now fine. Anything done afterwards with any guiding system should improve on this. If the guiding software doesn't improve - then its probably not yet been set up properly. But at least you will know where the problem lies!
                  >
                  > Let us know.
                  >
                  > good luck
                  >
                  > Lawrence
                  >
                  > --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hey Guys,
                  > > I'm trying to fine tune my tracking, guiding and PEC settings and seem to be having some difficulties and wondering if anybody has any more ideas. My 12" RCX400 with a DSI Pro II mounted on it has been used for all measurements and corrections, since my QSI won't connect up in PEMPro 2. When I guide in PHD the RA seems to vary up and down on the graph rather "periodically", sometimes going clear off the top and bottom after everything I have done. My stars are mostly smeared along with all the other details in my image in the RA direction, makes sense. I have worked on the PE in PEMPro for several days over the last week or so and seemed to have reduced the PE from about 35 down to 8 arcsec or so, seems pretty good, but.... I don't see much difference in the PHD guiding since achieving this. I thought, well maybe the tracking speed might be off and causing this so I tried working on that some tonight, but the darn clouds rolled in and that was the end of that! The method used to watch the tracking was to start PHD, loop images with a grid on screen and watch the movement of the star without guiding an see if it was running east or west and adjusting the tracking rate up or down in the custoM setting (thanks to Dick's patch) but it always seemed to go too far either way with even 1 or 2 - or + settings (- 0.01 or + 0.01 sidereal). Am I beating a dead horse here and need to go back to the PE corrections and try harder? Any suggestions?
                  > >
                  > > Steve
                  > > Stephen C. Mitchell, Sr, OD
                  > > Scopehill Observatory
                  > > www.Scopehill.com<http://www.scopehill.com/>
                  > > 12", RCX400
                  > >
                  >

                • Jason Ware
                  It really doesn t matter as long as the software rate matches the guide rate. I usually calibrate at a higher rate to minimize the effects of backlash then
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 4, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    It really doesn't matter as long as the software rate matches the guide rate. I usually calibrate at a higher rate to minimize the effects of backlash then change the rates manually 

                    Sent from my iPhone

                    On Apr 4, 2013, at 12:05 AM, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@...> wrote:

                     

                    Hey Jason,

                    Thanks for chiming in here Jason, I thought that is what I remembered you saying. Still I wonder, do you calibrate PHD or your guiding software of choice, at the said +20? Or do you calibrate first and then change the rate?

                     

                    Steve 

                     

                    Stephen C Mitchell Sr OD

                    Scopehill Observatory

                    www.Scopehill.com

                     

                     

                     

                    From: RCX400@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Ware
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 11:00 PM
                    To: RCX400@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [RCX400] Re: Tracking speed and guiding

                     

                     

                    The rcx will ignore inputs less than 20 ms. If the guide rate is too high the guiding software send short pulses for small moves. They get ignored. By guiding at 20% the guide software sends longer pulses 

                    Sent from my iPhone


                    On Apr 3, 2013, at 11:50 PM, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@...> wrote:

                     

                    Hey Bob,

                    No I have not messed with the guiding rate yet. It seems Jason Ware has advised something like +20 or +25 rather than the standard +66. Do you change the rate and then calibrate PHD or calibrate at the standard rate and then change to +50? I have in the past messed a little with this but didn’t see much difference, but I knew the PEC was way off so wondered if that was the problem then.

                    More clues of things to look at, thanks guys!

                     

                    Steve 

                     

                    Stephen C Mitchell Sr OD

                    Scopehill Observatory

                    www.Scopehill.com

                     

                     

                     

                    From: RCX400@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 6:16 PM
                    To: RCX400@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [RCX400] Re: Tracking speed and guiding

                     

                     


                    Hi Steve,

                    I use PHD for guiding also. You mentioned you set your tracking rate but what about the guidng rate? I set mine at +50 instead of the default of +66.

                    How is your polar alignment?

                    - Bob

                    --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "ldjhandm" <lawrence@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Steve
                    >
                    > My feeling is that you have to start at square 1: when you have completed a successful run with PEMPro you should be able to let your telescope track alone. Do images of 30 sec, 60 sec and 90 sec alone - no guiding whatsoever. When PEMPro has done its stuff the images should be largely OK with minimal drift. Have you done this yet?
                    >
                    > When the above test produces a good result then your PEC is now fine. Anything done afterwards with any guiding system should improve on this. If the guiding software doesn't improve - then its probably not yet been set up properly. But at least you will know where the problem lies!
                    >
                    > Let us know.
                    >
                    > good luck
                    >
                    > Lawrence
                    >
                    > --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hey Guys,
                    > > I'm trying to fine tune my tracking, guiding and PEC settings and seem to be having some difficulties and wondering if anybody has any more ideas. My 12" RCX400 with a DSI Pro II mounted on it has been used for all measurements and corrections, since my QSI won't connect up in PEMPro 2. When I guide in PHD the RA seems to vary up and down on the graph rather "periodically", sometimes going clear off the top and bottom after everything I have done. My stars are mostly smeared along with all the other details in my image in the RA direction, makes sense. I have worked on the PE in PEMPro for several days over the last week or so and seemed to have reduced the PE from about 35 down to 8 arcsec or so, seems pretty good, but.... I don't see much difference in the PHD guiding since achieving this. I thought, well maybe the tracking speed might be off and causing this so I tried working on that some tonight, but the darn clouds rolled in and that was the end of that! The method used to watch the tracking was to start PHD, loop images with a grid on screen and watch the movement of the star without guiding an see if it was running east or west and adjusting the tracking rate up or down in the custoM setting (thanks to Dick's patch) but it always seemed to go too far either way with even 1 or 2 - or + settings (- 0.01 or + 0.01 sidereal). Am I beating a dead horse here and need to go back to the PE corrections and try harder? Any suggestions?
                    > >
                    > > Steve
                    > > Stephen C. Mitchell, Sr, OD
                    > > Scopehill Observatory
                    > > www.Scopehill.com<http://www.scopehill.com/>
                    > > 12", RCX400
                    > >
                    >

                  • Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D.
                    Thanks Jason! Steve From: RCX400@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Ware Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 7:21 AM To:
                    Message 9 of 22 , Apr 4, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment

                      Thanks Jason!

                       

                      Steve

                       

                      From: RCX400@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Ware
                      Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 7:21 AM
                      To: RCX400@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [RCX400] Re: Tracking speed and guiding

                       

                       

                      It really doesn't matter as long as the software rate matches the guide rate. I usually calibrate at a higher rate to minimize the effects of backlash then change the rates manually 

                      Sent from my iPhone


                      On Apr 4, 2013, at 12:05 AM, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@...> wrote:

                       

                      Hey Jason,

                      Thanks for chiming in here Jason, I thought that is what I remembered you saying. Still I wonder, do you calibrate PHD or your guiding software of choice, at the said +20? Or do you calibrate first and then change the rate?

                       

                      Steve 

                       

                      Stephen C Mitchell Sr OD

                      Scopehill Observatory

                      www.Scopehill.com

                       

                       

                       

                      From: RCX400@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Ware
                      Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 11:00 PM
                      To: RCX400@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [RCX400] Re: Tracking speed and guiding

                       

                       

                      The rcx will ignore inputs less than 20 ms. If the guide rate is too high the guiding software send short pulses for small moves. They get ignored. By guiding at 20% the guide software sends longer pulses 

                      Sent from my iPhone


                      On Apr 3, 2013, at 11:50 PM, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@...> wrote:

                       

                      Hey Bob,

                      No I have not messed with the guiding rate yet. It seems Jason Ware has advised something like +20 or +25 rather than the standard +66. Do you change the rate and then calibrate PHD or calibrate at the standard rate and then change to +50? I have in the past messed a little with this but didn’t see much difference, but I knew the PEC was way off so wondered if that was the problem then.

                      More clues of things to look at, thanks guys!

                       

                      Steve 

                       

                      Stephen C Mitchell Sr OD

                      Scopehill Observatory

                      www.Scopehill.com

                       

                       

                       

                      From: RCX400@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob
                      Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 6:16 PM
                      To: RCX400@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [RCX400] Re: Tracking speed and guiding

                       

                       


                      Hi Steve,

                      I use PHD for guiding also. You mentioned you set your tracking rate but what about the guidng rate? I set mine at +50 instead of the default of +66.

                      How is your polar alignment?

                      - Bob

                      --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "ldjhandm" <lawrence@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello Steve
                      >
                      > My feeling is that you have to start at square 1: when you have completed a successful run with PEMPro you should be able to let your telescope track alone. Do images of 30 sec, 60 sec and 90 sec alone - no guiding whatsoever. When PEMPro has done its stuff the images should be largely OK with minimal drift. Have you done this yet?
                      >
                      > When the above test produces a good result then your PEC is now fine. Anything done afterwards with any guiding system should improve on this. If the guiding software doesn't improve - then its probably not yet been set up properly. But at least you will know where the problem lies!
                      >
                      > Let us know.
                      >
                      > good luck
                      >
                      > Lawrence
                      >
                      > --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hey Guys,
                      > > I'm trying to fine tune my tracking, guiding and PEC settings and seem to be having some difficulties and wondering if anybody has any more ideas. My 12" RCX400 with a DSI Pro II mounted on it has been used for all measurements and corrections, since my QSI won't connect up in PEMPro 2. When I guide in PHD the RA seems to vary up and down on the graph rather "periodically", sometimes going clear off the top and bottom after everything I have done. My stars are mostly smeared along with all the other details in my image in the RA direction, makes sense. I have worked on the PE in PEMPro for several days over the last week or so and seemed to have reduced the PE from about 35 down to 8 arcsec or so, seems pretty good, but.... I don't see much difference in the PHD guiding since achieving this. I thought, well maybe the tracking speed might be off and causing this so I tried working on that some tonight, but the darn clouds rolled in and that was the end of that! The method used to watch the tracking was to start PHD, loop images with a grid on screen and watch the movement of the star without guiding an see if it was running east or west and adjusting the tracking rate up or down in the custoM setting (thanks to Dick's patch) but it always seemed to go too far either way with even 1 or 2 - or + settings (- 0.01 or + 0.01 sidereal). Am I beating a dead horse here and need to go back to the PE corrections and try harder? Any suggestions?
                      > >
                      > > Steve
                      > > Stephen C. Mitchell, Sr, OD
                      > > Scopehill Observatory
                      > > www.Scopehill.com<http://www.scopehill.com/>
                      > > 12", RCX400
                      > >
                      >

                    • Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D.
                      Hey Lawrence, After lots of cloudy skies and several trial and error sessions later, I think I ve finally got the PEC worked out with PEMPro! Last night I got
                      Message 10 of 22 , Apr 25, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Hey Lawrence,

                        After lots of cloudy skies and several trial and error sessions later, I think I've finally got the PEC worked out with PEMPro! Last night I got a third run on refining the PEC that I was happy with (probably 9 or 10 actual runs to get the three I liked). Then I simply started up the camera and started imaging with no guiding, as you suggested. 30 second images looked pretty good, so after several I moved up to 1 minute and after several of those I moved on to 90 seconds and then 2 minutes! All unguided and 90%, at least, had quite round stars! There was a little drift to the west, so I then started messing with the tracking rate and using Dick and Andrew's patched custom setting of -4 to slow down the drive it all seemed to come near a stop.

                        Of course the PE problem would cause elongated stars in RA but certainly a fast running drive could too. I got to thinking about it, if the drive is running to slow, that would be a bit of a problem, but since in guiding it speeds up the motor to catch up, not too big of a deal. BUT, if it's running too fast, then all it can do is slow it down to catch up AND since the motor never runs backwards during guiding, all it can do is stop guiding and let it drift back in place and that could definitely take too long and cause elongation also!

                        So after adjusting that and trying 2 minute subs again, it appeared to hold real well on the crosshairs in Nebulosity with nice round stars even after 5 or 6 subs. By this time it was after midnight and I had to come to work today, so I shut it all down and went to bed.

                        Clouds are supposed to set back in again, so I don't know when I'll get to go further with testing, but it is finally looking up! Thanks for your suggestion, it seems to be a fairly easy way to see the result.

                        Steve

                         

                        Stephen C Mitchell Sr OD

                        From: RCX400@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ldjhandm
                        Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:33 PM
                        To: RCX400@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [RCX400] Re: Tracking speed and guiding

                         

                         

                        Hello Steve

                        My feeling is that you have to start at square 1: when you have completed a successful run with PEMPro you should be able to let your telescope track alone. Do images of 30 sec, 60 sec and 90 sec alone - no guiding whatsoever. When PEMPro has done its stuff the images should be largely OK with minimal drift. Have you done this yet?

                        When the above test produces a good result then your PEC is now fine. Anything done afterwards with any guiding system should improve on this. If the guiding software doesn't improve - then its probably not yet been set up properly. But at least you will know where the problem lies!

                        Let us know.

                        good luck

                        Lawrence

                        --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hey Guys,
                        > I'm trying to fine tune my tracking, guiding and PEC settings and seem to be having some difficulties and wondering if anybody has any more ideas. My 12" RCX400 with a DSI Pro II mounted on it has been used for all measurements and corrections, since my QSI won't connect up in PEMPro 2. When I guide in PHD the RA seems to vary up and down on the graph rather "periodically", sometimes going clear off the top and bottom after everything I have done. My stars are mostly smeared along with all the other details in my image in the RA direction, makes sense. I have worked on the PE in PEMPro for several days over the last week or so and seemed to have reduced the PE from about 35 down to 8 arcsec or so, seems pretty good, but.... I don't see much difference in the PHD guiding since achieving this. I thought, well maybe the tracking speed might be off and causing this so I tried working on that some tonight, but the darn clouds rolled in and that was the end of that! The method used to watch the tracking was to start PHD, loop images with a grid on screen and watch the movement of the star without guiding an see if it was running east or west and adjusting the tracking rate up or down in the custoM setting (thanks to Dick's patch) but it always seemed to go too far either way with even 1 or 2 - or + settings (- 0.01 or + 0.01 sidereal). Am I beating a dead horse here and need to go back to the PE corrections and try harder? Any suggestions?
                        >
                        > Steve
                        > Stephen C. Mitchell, Sr, OD
                        > Scopehill Observatory
                        > www.Scopehill.com<http://www.scopehill.com/>
                        > 12", RCX400
                        >

                      • Bob
                        Hey Steve, I too am getting a bit of enlongated stars. I want to try your tip. I ve got Dick s patched installed, but how do you set the custom tracking rate
                        Message 11 of 22 , Apr 27, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hey Steve,

                          I too am getting a bit of enlongated stars. I want to try your tip.
                          I've got Dick's patched installed, but how do you set the custom tracking rate to - 4? I don't see how to enter a negitive number.

                          Thanks for your help,

                          Bob

                          --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hey Lawrence,
                          > After lots of cloudy skies and several trial and error sessions later, I think I've finally got the PEC worked out with PEMPro! Last night I got a third run on refining the PEC that I was happy with (probably 9 or 10 actual runs to get the three I liked). Then I simply started up the camera and started imaging with no guiding, as you suggested. 30 second images looked pretty good, so after several I moved up to 1 minute and after several of those I moved on to 90 seconds and then 2 minutes! All unguided and 90%, at least, had quite round stars! There was a little drift to the west, so I then started messing with the tracking rate and using Dick and Andrew's patched custom setting of -4 to slow down the drive it all seemed to come near a stop.
                          > Of course the PE problem would cause elongated stars in RA but certainly a fast running drive could too. I got to thinking about it, if the drive is running to slow, that would be a bit of a problem, but since in guiding it speeds up the motor to catch up, not too big of a deal. BUT, if it's running too fast, then all it can do is slow it down to catch up AND since the motor never runs backwards during guiding, all it can do is stop guiding and let it drift back in place and that could definitely take too long and cause elongation also!
                          > So after adjusting that and trying 2 minute subs again, it appeared to hold real well on the crosshairs in Nebulosity with nice round stars even after 5 or 6 subs. By this time it was after midnight and I had to come to work today, so I shut it all down and went to bed.
                          > Clouds are supposed to set back in again, so I don't know when I'll get to go further with testing, but it is finally looking up! Thanks for your suggestion, it seems to be a fairly easy way to see the result.
                          > Steve
                          >
                          > Stephen C Mitchell Sr OD
                          > From: RCX400@yahoogroups.com<mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ldjhandm
                          > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:33 PM
                          > To: RCX400@yahoogroups.com<mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Subject: [RCX400] Re: Tracking speed and guiding
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Hello Steve
                          >
                          > My feeling is that you have to start at square 1: when you have completed a successful run with PEMPro you should be able to let your telescope track alone. Do images of 30 sec, 60 sec and 90 sec alone - no guiding whatsoever. When PEMPro has done its stuff the images should be largely OK with minimal drift. Have you done this yet?
                          >
                          > When the above test produces a good result then your PEC is now fine. Anything done afterwards with any guiding system should improve on this. If the guiding software doesn't improve - then its probably not yet been set up properly. But at least you will know where the problem lies!
                          >
                          > Let us know.
                          >
                          > good luck
                          >
                          > Lawrence
                          >
                          > --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com<mailto:RCX400%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@<mailto:smitchell@>> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hey Guys,
                          > > I'm trying to fine tune my tracking, guiding and PEC settings and seem to be having some difficulties and wondering if anybody has any more ideas. My 12" RCX400 with a DSI Pro II mounted on it has been used for all measurements and corrections, since my QSI won't connect up in PEMPro 2. When I guide in PHD the RA seems to vary up and down on the graph rather "periodically", sometimes going clear off the top and bottom after everything I have done. My stars are mostly smeared along with all the other details in my image in the RA direction, makes sense. I have worked on the PE in PEMPro for several days over the last week or so and seemed to have reduced the PE from about 35 down to 8 arcsec or so, seems pretty good, but.... I don't see much difference in the PHD guiding since achieving this. I thought, well maybe the tracking speed might be off and causing this so I tried working on that some tonight, but the darn clouds rolled in and that was the end of that! The method used to watch the tracking was to start PHD, loop images with a grid on screen and watch the movement of the star without guiding an see if it was running east or west and adjusting the tracking rate up or down in the custoM setting (thanks to Dick's patch) but it always seemed to go too far either way with even 1 or 2 - or + settings (- 0.01 or + 0.01 sidereal). Am I beating a dead horse here and need to go back to the PE corrections and try harder? Any suggestions?
                          > >
                          > > Steve
                          > > Stephen C. Mitchell, Sr, OD
                          > > Scopehill Observatory
                          > > www.Scopehill.com<http://www.scopehill.com/>
                          > > 12", RCX400
                          > >
                          >
                        • johansea
                          Gday Bob Just use the left slew key and the cursor can be moved left to where the sign is. Just use the up/down keys to toggle it between + and - Andrew
                          Message 12 of 22 , Apr 27, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Gday Bob

                            Just use the left slew key and the cursor can be moved left to where the sign is.
                            Just use the up/down keys to toggle it between + and -

                            Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia

                            --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bob@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hey Steve,
                            >
                            > I too am getting a bit of enlongated stars. I want to try your tip.
                            > I've got Dick's patched installed, but how do you set the custom tracking rate to - 4? I don't see how to enter a negitive number.
                            >
                            > Thanks for your help,
                            >
                            > Bob
                            >
                            > --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hey Lawrence,
                            > > After lots of cloudy skies and several trial and error sessions later, I think I've finally got the PEC worked out with PEMPro! Last night I got a third run on refining the PEC that I was happy with (probably 9 or 10 actual runs to get the three I liked). Then I simply started up the camera and started imaging with no guiding, as you suggested. 30 second images looked pretty good, so after several I moved up to 1 minute and after several of those I moved on to 90 seconds and then 2 minutes! All unguided and 90%, at least, had quite round stars! There was a little drift to the west, so I then started messing with the tracking rate and using Dick and Andrew's patched custom setting of -4 to slow down the drive it all seemed to come near a stop.
                            > > Of course the PE problem would cause elongated stars in RA but certainly a fast running drive could too. I got to thinking about it, if the drive is running to slow, that would be a bit of a problem, but since in guiding it speeds up the motor to catch up, not too big of a deal. BUT, if it's running too fast, then all it can do is slow it down to catch up AND since the motor never runs backwards during guiding, all it can do is stop guiding and let it drift back in place and that could definitely take too long and cause elongation also!
                            > > So after adjusting that and trying 2 minute subs again, it appeared to hold real well on the crosshairs in Nebulosity with nice round stars even after 5 or 6 subs. By this time it was after midnight and I had to come to work today, so I shut it all down and went to bed.
                            > > Clouds are supposed to set back in again, so I don't know when I'll get to go further with testing, but it is finally looking up! Thanks for your suggestion, it seems to be a fairly easy way to see the result.
                            > > Steve
                            > >
                            > > Stephen C Mitchell Sr OD
                            > > From: RCX400@yahoogroups.com<mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ldjhandm
                            > > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:33 PM
                            > > To: RCX400@yahoogroups.com<mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > Subject: [RCX400] Re: Tracking speed and guiding
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Hello Steve
                            > >
                            > > My feeling is that you have to start at square 1: when you have completed a successful run with PEMPro you should be able to let your telescope track alone. Do images of 30 sec, 60 sec and 90 sec alone - no guiding whatsoever. When PEMPro has done its stuff the images should be largely OK with minimal drift. Have you done this yet?
                            > >
                            > > When the above test produces a good result then your PEC is now fine. Anything done afterwards with any guiding system should improve on this. If the guiding software doesn't improve - then its probably not yet been set up properly. But at least you will know where the problem lies!
                            > >
                            > > Let us know.
                            > >
                            > > good luck
                            > >
                            > > Lawrence
                            > >
                            > > --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com<mailto:RCX400%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@<mailto:smitchell@>> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Hey Guys,
                            > > > I'm trying to fine tune my tracking, guiding and PEC settings and seem to be having some difficulties and wondering if anybody has any more ideas. My 12" RCX400 with a DSI Pro II mounted on it has been used for all measurements and corrections, since my QSI won't connect up in PEMPro 2. When I guide in PHD the RA seems to vary up and down on the graph rather "periodically", sometimes going clear off the top and bottom after everything I have done. My stars are mostly smeared along with all the other details in my image in the RA direction, makes sense. I have worked on the PE in PEMPro for several days over the last week or so and seemed to have reduced the PE from about 35 down to 8 arcsec or so, seems pretty good, but.... I don't see much difference in the PHD guiding since achieving this. I thought, well maybe the tracking speed might be off and causing this so I tried working on that some tonight, but the darn clouds rolled in and that was the end of that! The method used to watch the tracking was to start PHD, loop images with a grid on screen and watch the movement of the star without guiding an see if it was running east or west and adjusting the tracking rate up or down in the custoM setting (thanks to Dick's patch) but it always seemed to go too far either way with even 1 or 2 - or + settings (- 0.01 or + 0.01 sidereal). Am I beating a dead horse here and need to go back to the PE corrections and try harder? Any suggestions?
                            > > >
                            > > > Steve
                            > > > Stephen C. Mitchell, Sr, OD
                            > > > Scopehill Observatory
                            > > > www.Scopehill.com<http://www.scopehill.com/>
                            > > > 12", RCX400
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • autostaretx
                            ... and the other way to set a negative tracking rate is to select Lunar Tracking, tap ENTER, then menu to Custom... you ll see -35 (or -350 if patched for the
                            Message 13 of 22 , Apr 27, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              ... and the other way to set a negative tracking rate is to select Lunar Tracking, tap ENTER, then menu to Custom...
                              you'll see -35 (or -350 if patched for the 10x control).

                              Now it's just a case of changing the digits.

                              Andrew's (the "correct" method) works for any numeric input that requires a negative number, such as entering a southern DEC at the "enter RA and DEC" screen.

                              have fun
                              --dick

                              --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "johansea" <johansea@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Gday Bob
                              >
                              > Just use the left slew key and the cursor can be moved left to where the sign is.
                              > Just use the up/down keys to toggle it between + and -
                              >
                              > Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia
                              >
                              > --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bob@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hey Steve,
                              > >
                              > > I too am getting a bit of enlongated stars. I want to try your tip.
                              > > I've got Dick's patched installed, but how do you set the custom tracking rate to - 4? I don't see how to enter a negitive number.
                              > >
                              > > Thanks for your help,
                              > >
                              > > Bob
                              > >
                              > > --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Hey Lawrence,
                              > > > After lots of cloudy skies and several trial and error sessions later, I think I've finally got the PEC worked out with PEMPro! Last night I got a third run on refining the PEC that I was happy with (probably 9 or 10 actual runs to get the three I liked). Then I simply started up the camera and started imaging with no guiding, as you suggested. 30 second images looked pretty good, so after several I moved up to 1 minute and after several of those I moved on to 90 seconds and then 2 minutes! All unguided and 90%, at least, had quite round stars! There was a little drift to the west, so I then started messing with the tracking rate and using Dick and Andrew's patched custom setting of -4 to slow down the drive it all seemed to come near a stop.
                              > > > Of course the PE problem would cause elongated stars in RA but certainly a fast running drive could too. I got to thinking about it, if the drive is running to slow, that would be a bit of a problem, but since in guiding it speeds up the motor to catch up, not too big of a deal. BUT, if it's running too fast, then all it can do is slow it down to catch up AND since the motor never runs backwards during guiding, all it can do is stop guiding and let it drift back in place and that could definitely take too long and cause elongation also!
                              > > > So after adjusting that and trying 2 minute subs again, it appeared to hold real well on the crosshairs in Nebulosity with nice round stars even after 5 or 6 subs. By this time it was after midnight and I had to come to work today, so I shut it all down and went to bed.
                              > > > Clouds are supposed to set back in again, so I don't know when I'll get to go further with testing, but it is finally looking up! Thanks for your suggestion, it seems to be a fairly easy way to see the result.
                              > > > Steve
                              > > >
                              > > > Stephen C Mitchell Sr OD
                              > > > From: RCX400@yahoogroups.com<mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ldjhandm
                              > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:33 PM
                              > > > To: RCX400@yahoogroups.com<mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com>
                              > > > Subject: [RCX400] Re: Tracking speed and guiding
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Hello Steve
                              > > >
                              > > > My feeling is that you have to start at square 1: when you have completed a successful run with PEMPro you should be able to let your telescope track alone. Do images of 30 sec, 60 sec and 90 sec alone - no guiding whatsoever. When PEMPro has done its stuff the images should be largely OK with minimal drift. Have you done this yet?
                              > > >
                              > > > When the above test produces a good result then your PEC is now fine. Anything done afterwards with any guiding system should improve on this. If the guiding software doesn't improve - then its probably not yet been set up properly. But at least you will know where the problem lies!
                              > > >
                              > > > Let us know.
                              > > >
                              > > > good luck
                              > > >
                              > > > Lawrence
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com<mailto:RCX400%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@<mailto:smitchell@>> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Hey Guys,
                              > > > > I'm trying to fine tune my tracking, guiding and PEC settings and seem to be having some difficulties and wondering if anybody has any more ideas. My 12" RCX400 with a DSI Pro II mounted on it has been used for all measurements and corrections, since my QSI won't connect up in PEMPro 2. When I guide in PHD the RA seems to vary up and down on the graph rather "periodically", sometimes going clear off the top and bottom after everything I have done. My stars are mostly smeared along with all the other details in my image in the RA direction, makes sense. I have worked on the PE in PEMPro for several days over the last week or so and seemed to have reduced the PE from about 35 down to 8 arcsec or so, seems pretty good, but.... I don't see much difference in the PHD guiding since achieving this. I thought, well maybe the tracking speed might be off and causing this so I tried working on that some tonight, but the darn clouds rolled in and that was the end of that! The method used to watch the tracking was to start PHD, loop images with a grid on screen and watch the movement of the star without guiding an see if it was running east or west and adjusting the tracking rate up or down in the custoM setting (thanks to Dick's patch) but it always seemed to go too far either way with even 1 or 2 - or + settings (- 0.01 or + 0.01 sidereal). Am I beating a dead horse here and need to go back to the PE corrections and try harder? Any suggestions?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Steve
                              > > > > Stephen C. Mitchell, Sr, OD
                              > > > > Scopehill Observatory
                              > > > > www.Scopehill.com<http://www.scopehill.com/>
                              > > > > 12", RCX400
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D.
                              Hey Bob, When you go to tracking rate/custom and have the numbers showing simply use the left key to move your curse under the + sign and then use the up or
                              Message 14 of 22 , Apr 27, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment

                                Hey Bob,

                                When you go to tracking rate/custom and have the numbers showing simply use the left key to move your curse under the + sign and then use the up or down arrows and it will change to – then move the cursor back under the number and up and down changes that.

                                I think I got the up/down/left right keys correct. I don’t have my scope running to check right now, but I think you get the general idea. Clouded out here again tonight, so I don’t have the observatory open or the scope running. If you still have trouble, I can fire it up and double check for you.

                                 

                                Steve

                                Stephen C. Mitchell, Sr, OD

                                Scopehill Observatory

                                www.Scopehill.com

                                12", RCX400

                                 

                                From: RCX400@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob
                                Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:36 AM
                                To: RCX400@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [RCX400] Re: Tracking speed and guiding

                                 

                                 

                                Hey Steve,

                                I too am getting a bit of enlongated stars. I want to try your tip.
                                I've got Dick's patched installed, but how do you set the custom tracking rate to - 4? I don't see how to enter a negitive number.

                                Thanks for your help,

                                Bob

                                --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hey Lawrence,
                                > After lots of cloudy skies and several trial and error sessions later, I think I've finally got the PEC worked out with PEMPro! Last night I got a third run on refining the PEC that I was happy with (probably 9 or 10 actual runs to get the three I liked). Then I simply started up the camera and started imaging with no guiding, as you suggested. 30 second images looked pretty good, so after several I moved up to 1 minute and after several of those I moved on to 90 seconds and then 2 minutes! All unguided and 90%, at least, had quite round stars! There was a little drift to the west, so I then started messing with the tracking rate and using Dick and Andrew's patched custom setting of -4 to slow down the drive it all seemed to come near a stop.
                                > Of course the PE problem would cause elongated stars in RA but certainly a fast running drive could too. I got to thinking about it, if the drive is running to slow, that would be a bit of a problem, but since in guiding it speeds up the motor to catch up, not too big of a deal. BUT, if it's running too fast, then all it can do is slow it down to catch up AND since the motor never runs backwards during guiding, all it can do is stop guiding and let it drift back in place and that could definitely take too long and cause elongation also!
                                > So after adjusting that and trying 2 minute subs again, it appeared to hold real well on the crosshairs in Nebulosity with nice round stars even after 5 or 6 subs. By this time it was after midnight and I had to come to work today, so I shut it all down and went to bed.
                                > Clouds are supposed to set back in again, so I don't know when I'll get to go further with testing, but it is finally looking up! Thanks for your suggestion, it seems to be a fairly easy way to see the result.
                                > Steve
                                >
                                > Stephen C Mitchell Sr OD
                                > From: RCX400@yahoogroups.com<mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ldjhandm
                                > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:33 PM
                                > To: RCX400@yahoogroups.com<mailto:RCX400@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Subject: [RCX400] Re: Tracking speed and guiding
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Hello Steve
                                >
                                > My feeling is that you have to start at square 1: when you have completed a successful run with PEMPro you should be able to let your telescope track alone. Do images of 30 sec, 60 sec and 90 sec alone - no guiding whatsoever. When PEMPro has done its stuff the images should be largely OK with minimal drift. Have you done this yet?
                                >
                                > When the above test produces a good result then your PEC is now fine. Anything done afterwards with any guiding system should improve on this. If the guiding software doesn't improve - then its probably not yet been set up properly. But at least you will know where the problem lies!
                                >
                                > Let us know.
                                >
                                > good luck
                                >
                                > Lawrence
                                >
                                > --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com<mailto:RCX400%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D." <smitchell@<mailto:smitchell@>> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hey Guys,
                                > > I'm trying to fine tune my tracking, guiding and PEC settings and seem to be having some difficulties and wondering if anybody has any more ideas. My 12" RCX400 with a DSI Pro II mounted on it has been used for all measurements and corrections, since my QSI won't connect up in PEMPro 2. When I guide in PHD the RA seems to vary up and down on the graph rather "periodically", sometimes going clear off the top and bottom after everything I have done. My stars are mostly smeared along with all the other details in my image in the RA direction, makes sense. I have worked on the PE in PEMPro for several days over the last week or so and seemed to have reduced the PE from about 35 down to 8 arcsec or so, seems pretty good, but.... I don't see much difference in the PHD guiding since achieving this. I thought, well maybe the tracking speed might be off and causing this so I tried working on that some tonight, but the darn clouds rolled in and that was the end of that! The method used to watch the tracking was to start PHD, loop images with a grid on screen and watch the movement of the star without guiding an see if it was running east or west and adjusting the tracking rate up or down in the custoM setting (thanks to Dick's patch) but it always seemed to go too far either way with even 1 or 2 - or + settings (- 0.01 or + 0.01 sidereal). Am I beating a dead horse here and need to go back to the PE corrections and try harder? Any suggestions?
                                > >
                                > > Steve
                                > > Stephen C. Mitchell, Sr, OD
                                > > Scopehill Observatory
                                > > www.Scopehill.com<http://www.scopehill.com/>
                                > > 12", RCX400
                                > >
                                >

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