Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

errant beep

Expand Messages
  • David Yaney
    I am self-guiding my 12 RCX with an SBIG camera and MaximDL using a 5 sec correction loop. Corrections are being applied via the guider relay inputs. The
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 1, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      I am self-guiding my 12" RCX with an SBIG camera and MaximDL using a 5
      sec correction loop. Corrections are being applied via the guider
      relay inputs.

      The setup is producing good results with about 2-3 arcsecs pk-pk
      tracking error in RA/DEC. It goes along fine for a long time (hours)
      and then irregularly comes the "errant beep." The scope firmware
      apparently decides to sound the alarm ("one beep only Mr. Vasily...")
      and the guiding immediately starts to drift. Corrections are still
      being applied because and can see the trend in the tracking error
      chart "trying" to go the right way but drift eventually wins.

      I also notice that after the "errant beep" the Autostar fimware gets
      balky. Simple input/responses to/from the handbox get slow or are
      missed. Restarting the scope resets things to normal. No unusual
      messages appear on the display

      So, the questions are:

      1. Why does the firmware issue the "errant beep"? Is this an "I'm
      gtting lost" indication? Has anyone else observed this? (I'm running
      v2.2a)

      2. Can the RCX-400 accept simultaneous RA/DEC corrections via the
      guider relay input?
    • autostaretx
      ... My -guess- is that Maxim commanded a real GoTo instead of simply issuing guider commands. The beep would have been the arrival. Without a serial trace
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 1, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "David Yaney" <DSYaney@...> wrote:
        >
        > I am self-guiding my 12" RCX with an SBIG camera and MaximDL using a 5
        > sec correction loop. Corrections are being applied via the guider
        > relay inputs.
        >
        > The setup is producing good results with about 2-3 arcsecs pk-pk
        > tracking error in RA/DEC. It goes along fine for a long time (hours)
        > and then irregularly comes the "errant beep." The scope firmware
        > apparently decides to sound the alarm ("one beep only Mr. Vasily...")
        > and the guiding immediately starts to drift. Corrections are still
        > being applied because and can see the trend in the tracking error
        > chart "trying" to go the right way but drift eventually wins.
        >
        > I also notice that after the "errant beep" the Autostar fimware gets
        > balky. Simple input/responses to/from the handbox get slow or are
        > missed. Restarting the scope resets things to normal. No unusual
        > messages appear on the display
        >
        > So, the questions are:
        >
        > 1. Why does the firmware issue the "errant beep"? Is this an "I'm
        > gtting lost" indication? Has anyone else observed this? (I'm running
        > v2.2a)

        My -guess- is that Maxim commanded a real "GoTo" instead of
        simply issuing guider commands. The beep would have been
        the arrival. Without a serial trace (capture the commands
        being sent to the scope) it's impossible to say.

        > 2. Can the RCX-400 accept simultaneous RA/DEC corrections via the
        > guider relay input?

        Yes.

        have fun, and if there's a way to capture the command stream, do so
        --dick

        p.s. Maxim may offer the capture, or you can install PortMon,
        a freebie program which can capture all serial (and other) traffic.
        Warning: PortMon's log files can be HUGE (filter for "ength")
      • David Yaney
        Dick - Very interesting suggestion - as turns out Maxim was not connected to the scope in the logical sense but TheSky was. I would also point out that while
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 1, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Dick -

          Very interesting suggestion - as turns out Maxim was not "connected"
          to the scope in the logical sense but TheSky was. I would also point
          out that while it remained connected TheSky hadn't been asked by the
          operator (i.e. me) to do anything for a while - perhaps it decides to
          figure out if the scope is still alive in that situation by sending
          some command or another although I don't see why this should
          compromise the firmware the way it appears to.

          Where can I get my hands on this PortMon code? (I sent Doug George a
          note asking about the logging and I haven't yet heard back.)


          --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "autostaretx" <rseymour@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "David Yaney" <DSYaney@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I am self-guiding my 12" RCX with an SBIG camera and MaximDL using a 5
          > > sec correction loop. Corrections are being applied via the guider
          > > relay inputs.
          > >
          > > The setup is producing good results with about 2-3 arcsecs pk-pk
          > > tracking error in RA/DEC. It goes along fine for a long time (hours)
          > > and then irregularly comes the "errant beep." The scope firmware
          > > apparently decides to sound the alarm ("one beep only Mr. Vasily...")
          > > and the guiding immediately starts to drift. Corrections are still
          > > being applied because and can see the trend in the tracking error
          > > chart "trying" to go the right way but drift eventually wins.
          > >
          > > I also notice that after the "errant beep" the Autostar fimware gets
          > > balky. Simple input/responses to/from the handbox get slow or are
          > > missed. Restarting the scope resets things to normal. No unusual
          > > messages appear on the display
          > >
          > > So, the questions are:
          > >
          > > 1. Why does the firmware issue the "errant beep"? Is this an "I'm
          > > gtting lost" indication? Has anyone else observed this? (I'm running
          > > v2.2a)
          >
          > My -guess- is that Maxim commanded a real "GoTo" instead of
          > simply issuing guider commands. The beep would have been
          > the arrival. Without a serial trace (capture the commands
          > being sent to the scope) it's impossible to say.
          >
          > > 2. Can the RCX-400 accept simultaneous RA/DEC corrections via the
          > > guider relay input?
          >
          > Yes.
          >
          > have fun, and if there's a way to capture the command stream, do so
          > --dick
          >
          > p.s. Maxim may offer the capture, or you can install PortMon,
          > a freebie program which can capture all serial (and other) traffic.
          > Warning: PortMon's log files can be HUGE (filter for "ength")
          >
        • autostaretx
          ... You only mentioned MaximDL in your note, so that s why i said Maxim. Failure to properly report your environment will get incorrect responses. Insert
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 1, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "David Yaney" <DSYaney@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dick -
            >
            > Very interesting suggestion - as turns out Maxim was not "connected"
            > to the scope in the logical sense but TheSky was.

            You only mentioned MaximDL in your note, so that's why i said Maxim.
            Failure to properly report your environment will get incorrect
            responses. Insert "TheSky" for Maxim.

            > I would also point
            > out that while it remained connected TheSky hadn't been asked by the
            > operator (i.e. me) to do anything for a while - perhaps it decides
            > to
            > figure out if the scope is still alive in that situation by sending
            > some command or another although I don't see why this should
            > compromise the firmware the way it appears to.

            Does it follow the scope's position on the screen?
            If so, it's sending commands.
            If it sends too many commands per second (greater than 4 is
            risky, depending upon what else is going on) there can be
            "artifacts". (does TheSky attempt to return the scope to
            the last target if it thinks it's moved too far away?
            I donno... i use an elder copy of StarryNight.)

            > Where can I get my hands on this PortMon code? (I sent Doug George a
            > note asking about the logging and I haven't yet heard back.)

            When i have a "where can i get...?" question, i Google on
            the program name and the word "download". Rumor has it that
            it's become harder to find PortMon, so i'll post a copy to this
            group's Files area later tonight.

            have fun
            --dick

            > --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "autostaretx" <rseymour@> wrote:
            > >
            > > --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "David Yaney" <DSYaney@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I am self-guiding my 12" RCX with an SBIG camera and MaximDL
            using a 5
            > > > sec correction loop. Corrections are being applied via the guider
            > > > relay inputs.
            > > >
            > > > The setup is producing good results with about 2-3 arcsecs pk-pk
            > > > tracking error in RA/DEC. It goes along fine for a long time (hours)
            > > > and then irregularly comes the "errant beep." The scope firmware
            > > > apparently decides to sound the alarm ("one beep only Mr.
            Vasily...")
            > > > and the guiding immediately starts to drift. Corrections are still
            > > > being applied because and can see the trend in the tracking error
            > > > chart "trying" to go the right way but drift eventually wins.
            > > >
            > > > I also notice that after the "errant beep" the Autostar fimware gets
            > > > balky. Simple input/responses to/from the handbox get slow or are
            > > > missed. Restarting the scope resets things to normal. No unusual
            > > > messages appear on the display
            > > >
            > > > So, the questions are:
            > > >
            > > > 1. Why does the firmware issue the "errant beep"? Is this an "I'm
            > > > gtting lost" indication? Has anyone else observed this? (I'm running
            > > > v2.2a)
            > >
            > > My -guess- is that Maxim commanded a real "GoTo" instead of
            > > simply issuing guider commands. The beep would have been
            > > the arrival. Without a serial trace (capture the commands
            > > being sent to the scope) it's impossible to say.
            > >
            > > > 2. Can the RCX-400 accept simultaneous RA/DEC corrections via the
            > > > guider relay input?
            > >
            > > Yes.
            > >
            > > have fun, and if there's a way to capture the command stream, do so
            > > --dick
            > >
            > > p.s. Maxim may offer the capture, or you can install PortMon,
            > > a freebie program which can capture all serial (and other) traffic.
            > > Warning: PortMon's log files can be HUGE (filter for "ength")
            > >
            >
          • uncarollo2
            ... to ... The Sky6 does indeed send a command to a mount (and not just the Meade mounts) to move by a small amount - a few arc minutes. This happens if you
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 1, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "David Yaney" <DSYaney@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dick -
              >
              > Very interesting suggestion - as turns out Maxim was not "connected"
              > to the scope in the logical sense but TheSky was. I would also point
              > out that while it remained connected TheSky hadn't been asked by the
              > operator (i.e. me) to do anything for a while - perhaps it decides
              to
              > figure out if the scope is still alive in that situation by sending
              > some command or another although I don't see why this should
              > compromise the firmware the way it appears to.

              The Sky6 does indeed send a command to a mount (and not just the
              Meade mounts) to move by a small amount - a few arc minutes. This
              happens if you are connected via the com port to your GoTo mount and
              you are guiding for a period of time and you have The Sky up with
              Link Established. I have experienced this also with my AP mount on
              several occasions, and others have reported it as well.

              During guiding you are probably connected to The Sky in order to see
              where you are pointing on the charts via the little cursor. Therefore
              The Sky is continually asking the mount "where are you?" and the
              mount responds by sending the present co-ordinates. Of course, during
              guiding you are also sending commands to the mount from the guider
              chip, therefore the mount is slowly being asked to move in RA and DEC
              to counter the drift. This changes the RA/Dec co-ordinates during the
              guiding intervals by small amounts, and it may be that there is a
              point where The Sky has determined that you have strayed too far from
              the previously commanded position and it sends a little correction
              signal of its own. Therefore your mount moves a bit and you lose the
              guide star (this is only my thinking, and may not be why this is
              happening, but happening it does indeed).

              The only way to insure that you do not get into this situation is to
              suspend the link to your scope, or what I do to prevent loss of a
              carefully guided exposure is to yank the connection from the com port
              to the mount. That way The Sky can hiccup all it wants and nothing is
              lost. During guiding you really don't need to see the cursor blinking
              anyway because presumably you know where you are and you don't need
              The Sky to tell you that information.

              Rolando
            • autostaretx
              ... It s available from the link at the bottom of this page: or, to be specific:
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 1, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                > --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "David Yaney" <DSYaney@> wrote:
                > > Where can I get my hands on this PortMon code?

                It's available from the link at the bottom of this page:
                <http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/utilities/portmon.mspx>

                or, to be specific:
                http://download.sysinternals.com/Files/PortMon.zip

                have fun
                --dick
              • Jim Carlisle
                Right off the top, it sounds like something is accumulating until the traffic is jammed. Jim Carlisle
                Message 7 of 8 , Oct 2, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Right off the top, it sounds like something is accumulating until the
                  traffic is jammed.

                  Jim Carlisle


                  --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "David Yaney" <DSYaney@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I am self-guiding my 12" RCX with an SBIG camera and MaximDL using a 5
                  > sec correction loop. Corrections are being applied via the guider
                  > relay inputs.
                  >
                  > The setup is producing good results with about 2-3 arcsecs pk-pk
                  > tracking error in RA/DEC. It goes along fine for a long time (hours)
                  > and then irregularly comes the "errant beep." The scope firmware
                  > apparently decides to sound the alarm ("one beep only Mr. Vasily...")
                  > and the guiding immediately starts to drift. Corrections are still
                  > being applied because and can see the trend in the tracking error
                  > chart "trying" to go the right way but drift eventually wins.
                  >
                  > I also notice that after the "errant beep" the Autostar fimware gets
                  > balky. Simple input/responses to/from the handbox get slow or are
                  > missed. Restarting the scope resets things to normal. No unusual
                  > messages appear on the display
                  >
                  > So, the questions are:
                  >
                  > 1. Why does the firmware issue the "errant beep"? Is this an "I'm
                  > gtting lost" indication? Has anyone else observed this? (I'm running
                  > v2.2a)
                  >
                  > 2. Can the RCX-400 accept simultaneous RA/DEC corrections via the
                  > guider relay input?
                  >
                • David Yaney
                  Rolando - Your experience does match mine pretty closely. I didn t actually check to see if the guide star was lost. I have seen Maxim issue a message, Guide
                  Message 8 of 8 , Oct 2, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Rolando -

                    Your experience does match mine pretty closely. I didn't actually
                    check to see if the guide star was lost. I have seen Maxim issue a
                    message, "Guide star faded" when that has -in fact- happened but the
                    program did not in this case. It could be that Maxim got confused when
                    the guide star was there on one pass and then *zip* was completely
                    gone on the next.

                    I'm going to shut TheSky down on the next guiding runs and see if the
                    problem goes away. Many thanks for your timely advice!

                    DSYaney

                    --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "uncarollo2" <chris1011@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In RCX400@yahoogroups.com, "David Yaney" <DSYaney@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Dick -
                    > >
                    > > Very interesting suggestion - as turns out Maxim was not "connected"
                    > > to the scope in the logical sense but TheSky was. I would also point
                    > > out that while it remained connected TheSky hadn't been asked by the
                    > > operator (i.e. me) to do anything for a while - perhaps it decides
                    > to
                    > > figure out if the scope is still alive in that situation by sending
                    > > some command or another although I don't see why this should
                    > > compromise the firmware the way it appears to.
                    >
                    > The Sky6 does indeed send a command to a mount (and not just the
                    > Meade mounts) to move by a small amount - a few arc minutes. This
                    > happens if you are connected via the com port to your GoTo mount and
                    > you are guiding for a period of time and you have The Sky up with
                    > Link Established. I have experienced this also with my AP mount on
                    > several occasions, and others have reported it as well.
                    >
                    > During guiding you are probably connected to The Sky in order to see
                    > where you are pointing on the charts via the little cursor. Therefore
                    > The Sky is continually asking the mount "where are you?" and the
                    > mount responds by sending the present co-ordinates. Of course, during
                    > guiding you are also sending commands to the mount from the guider
                    > chip, therefore the mount is slowly being asked to move in RA and DEC
                    > to counter the drift. This changes the RA/Dec co-ordinates during the
                    > guiding intervals by small amounts, and it may be that there is a
                    > point where The Sky has determined that you have strayed too far from
                    > the previously commanded position and it sends a little correction
                    > signal of its own. Therefore your mount moves a bit and you lose the
                    > guide star (this is only my thinking, and may not be why this is
                    > happening, but happening it does indeed).
                    >
                    > The only way to insure that you do not get into this situation is to
                    > suspend the link to your scope, or what I do to prevent loss of a
                    > carefully guided exposure is to yank the connection from the com port
                    > to the mount. That way The Sky can hiccup all it wants and nothing is
                    > lost. During guiding you really don't need to see the cursor blinking
                    > anyway because presumably you know where you are and you don't need
                    > The Sky to tell you that information.
                    >
                    > Rolando
                    >
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.