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Halo Group Questions

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  • mthompson760
    I was wondering what the group s thoughts are on the new sub clades, BY16584, BY16585, BY16586, BY16587, BY16588 and BY16589. They are all equivalent. Do we
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 7, 2017

      I was wondering what the group's thoughts are on the new sub clades, BY16584, BY16585, BY16586, BY16587, BY16588 and BY16589. They are all equivalent. Do we have age estimates on them and where were they geographically in that time period?


      Skal


      Mike


    • Iain McDonald
      Hi Mike, ... It s not clear to me who has registered these names at Family Tree DNA - perhaps it is one of the other admins, but we normally only ask for this
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 8, 2017
        Hi Mike,

        > I was wondering what the group's thoughts are on the new sub clades, BY16584, BY16585, BY16586, BY16587, BY16588 and BY16589. They are all equivalent. Do we have age estimates on them and where were they geographically in that time period?

        It's not clear to me who has registered these names at Family Tree DNA - perhaps it is one of the other admins, but we normally only ask for this once two or more people are positive for these SNPs. I had been hoping the person who registered them would chip in about this question, because at the moment, the only person I can find who is positive for these SNPs is you. Consequently, at present, there is no clearly defined clade which these SNPs represent, so no age estimate nor geographical origin can be determined for them. 

        - Iain.
      • Charles Moore
        This situation must mean that someone else who isn t a project member is also a member of this clade. Charles And the beat goes on ...
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 8, 2017
          This situation must mean that someone else who isn't a project member is also a member of this clade.

          Charles
          "And the beat goes on"...

          On Jun 8, 2017, at 3:39 AM, Iain McDonald gubbins@... [R1b1c_U106-S21] <R1b1c_U106-S21@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

           

          Hi Mike,

          > I was wondering what the group's thoughts are on the new sub clades, BY16584, BY16585, BY16586, BY16587, BY16588 and BY16589. They are all equivalent. Do we have age estimates on them and where were they geographically in that time period?

          It's not clear to me who has registered these names at Family Tree DNA - perhaps it is one of the other admins, but we normally only ask for this once two or more people are positive for these SNPs. I had been hoping the person who registered them would chip in about this question, because at the moment, the only person I can find who is positive for these SNPs is you. Consequently, at present, there is no clearly defined clade which these SNPs represent, so no age estimate nor geographical origin can be determined for them. 

          - Iain.

        • Iain McDonald
          ... Well it s not clear who. The mystery man doesn t show up in Mike s BigY matches that I can find (searching for matches sharing #14729606 = BY16584), a
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 8, 2017
            >This situation must mean that someone else who isn't a project member is also a member of this clade.

            Well it's not clear who. The mystery man doesn't show up in Mike's BigY matches that I can find (searching for matches sharing #14729606 = BY16584), a Google search for R-BY16584 only picks up Mike. Since it's not available on an SNP pack, the only other way to get it into the FTDNA system would seemingly be to test for it individually, which FTDNA haven't yet made an option. So it seems to really be just Mike.

            - Iain.
          • Charles Moore
            Everyone with Big Y, If you make your way down your Big Y match list, and click on each person, it tells you what clade their in. The people in your same
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 8, 2017
              Everyone with Big Y, 

              If you make your way down your Big Y match list, and click on each person, it tells you what clade their in.  The people in your same clade are your true closest matches.  If they're not in the project, you need to email them and invite them to join, and they need to send us their VCF file for Iain's comparison, so that he can age the clade. This is the process!

              Mike, in your case, at least one such person on your list is Douglas Williams.

              Charles
              "And the beat goes on"...

              On Jun 8, 2017, at 3:49 AM, Charles Moore cdmo29@... [R1b1c_U106-S21] <R1b1c_U106-S21@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

               

              This situation must mean that someone else who isn't a project member is also a member of this clade.

              Charles
              "And the beat goes on"...

              On Jun 8, 2017, at 3:39 AM, Iain McDonald gubbins@... [R1b1c_U106-S21] <R1b1c_U106-S21@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

               

              Hi Mike,

              > I was wondering what the group's thoughts are on the new sub clades, BY16584, BY16585, BY16586, BY16587, BY16588 and BY16589. They are all equivalent. Do we have age estimates on them and where were they geographically in that time period?

              It's not clear to me who has registered these names at Family Tree DNA - perhaps it is one of the other admins, but we normally only ask for this once two or more people are positive for these SNPs. I had been hoping the person who registered them would chip in about this question, because at the moment, the only person I can find who is positive for these SNPs is you. Consequently, at present, there is no clearly defined clade which these SNPs represent, so no age estimate nor geographical origin can be determined for them. 

              - Iain.

            • Charles Moore
              The match is on his match list, as I indicated. Click on the names, and the profiles tell you what clade they re in. This is just one of the many benefits of
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 8, 2017
                The match is on his match list, as I indicated.  Click on the names, and the profiles tell you what clade they're in. This is just one of the many benefits of working with FTDNA to help them get their tree as up-to-date as possible.

                They won't put people into a clade of one, because that isn't a clade. Whatever your green Haplogroup label says, there are at least two of you out there somewhere.

                Charles
                "And the beat goes on"...

                On Jun 8, 2017, at 4:07 AM, Iain McDonald gubbins@... [R1b1c_U106-S21] <R1b1c_U106-S21@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                 

                >This situation must mean that someone else who isn't a project member is also a member of this clade.

                Well it's not clear who. The mystery man doesn't show up in Mike's BigY matches that I can find (searching for matches sharing #14729606 = BY16584), a Google search for R-BY16584 only picks up Mike. Since it's not available on an SNP pack, the only other way to get it into the FTDNA system would seemingly be to test for it individually, which FTDNA haven't yet made an option. So it seems to really be just Mike.

                - Iain.

              • Raymond Wing
                Some folks have set their privacy settings so their Big Y results do not appear as matching even their closest relatives.  Either FTDNA has named these SNPs
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 8, 2017
                  Some folks have set their privacy settings so their Big Y results do not appear as matching even their closest relatives. 

                  Either FTDNA has named these SNPs based on a single result (which is unlikely), or they do have a second positive result, but the individual has chosen not to release his results to his matches.


                  On Thursday, June 8, 2017 5:17 AM, "Iain McDonald gubbins@... [R1b1c_U106-S21]" <R1b1c_U106-S21@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                   
                  >This situation must mean that someone else who isn't a project member is also a member of this clade.

                  Well it's not clear who. The mystery man doesn't show up in Mike's BigY matches that I can find (searching for matches sharing #14729606 = BY16584), a Google search for R-BY16584 only picks up Mike. Since it's not available on an SNP pack, the only other way to get it into the FTDNA system would seemingly be to test for it individually, which FTDNA haven't yet made an option. So it seems to really be just Mike.

                  - Iain.


                • Charles Moore
                  Wrong again, LOL. Charles And the beat goes on ...
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jun 8, 2017
                    Wrong again, LOL.

                    Charles
                    "And the beat goes on"...

                    On Jun 8, 2017, at 5:12 AM, Raymond Wing wing_genealogist@... [R1b1c_U106-S21] <R1b1c_U106-S21@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                     

                    Some folks have set their privacy settings so their Big Y results do not appear as matching even their closest relatives. 

                    Either FTDNA has named these SNPs based on a single result (which is unlikely), or they do have a second positive result, but the individual has chosen not to release his results to his matches.


                    On Thursday, June 8, 2017 5:17 AM, "Iain McDonald gubbins@... [R1b1c_U106-S21]" <R1b1c_U106-S21@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                     
                    >This situation must mean that someone else who isn't a project member is also a member of this clade.

                    Well it's not clear who. The mystery man doesn't show up in Mike's BigY matches that I can find (searching for matches sharing #14729606 = BY16584), a Google search for R-BY16584 only picks up Mike. Since it's not available on an SNP pack, the only other way to get it into the FTDNA system would seemingly be to test for it individually, which FTDNA haven't yet made an option. So it seems to really be just Mike.

                    - Iain.


                  • Thomas Krahn
                    As usual it pays off to look at the website of the market leader in single SNP testing ;) BY16584 https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=51208
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jun 8, 2017
                      As usual it pays off to look at the website of the market leader in single SNP testing ;)

                      BY16584
                      https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=51208

                      Thomas


                      On 06/08/2017 11:07 AM, Iain McDonald gubbins@... [R1b1c_U106-S21] wrote:
                       
                      >This situation must mean that someone else who isn't a project member is also a member of this clade.

                      Well it's not clear who. The mystery man doesn't show up in Mike's BigY matches that I can find (searching for matches sharing #14729606 = BY16584), a Google search for R-BY16584 only picks up Mike. Since it's not available on an SNP pack, the only other way to get it into the FTDNA system would seemingly be to test for it individually, which FTDNA haven't yet made an option. So it seems to really be just Mike.

                      - Iain.


                    • Wayne Kauffman
                      Remember that FTDNA is identifying some of the new clades without being prompted by project admins. We are the ones left trying to figure out the BY named
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jun 8, 2017
                        Remember that FTDNA is identifying some of the new clades without being prompted by project admins. We are the ones left trying to figure out the BY named variant positions.  Whatever the process is not all new clades are identified so we need to work off of the FGC comparisons and Iain's comparison to get remaining new ones named.    A recent shared Hurst/Horst result wasn't picked up by FTDNA.  So a pointer to a lot of existing FGC named SNPs was sent in.  Over 20 named SNPs went onto FTDNA's tree across 2 clades with that one new result. FTDNA added several new BY names in the process.

                        -Wayne



                        From: "Iain McDonald gubbins@... [R1b1c_U106-S21]" <R1b1c_U106-S21@yahoogroups.com>
                        To: Yahoogroups <r1b1c_u106-s21@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2017 3:39 AM
                        Subject: [R1b1c_U106-S21] Re: Halo Group Questions

                         
                        Hi Mike,

                        > I was wondering what the group's thoughts are on the new sub clades, BY16584, BY16585, BY16586, BY16587, BY16588 and BY16589. They are all equivalent. Do we have age estimates on them and where were they geographically in that time period?

                        It's not clear to me who has registered these names at Family Tree DNA - perhaps it is one of the other admins, but we normally only ask for this once two or more people are positive for these SNPs. I had been hoping the person who registered them would chip in about this question, because at the moment, the only person I can find who is positive for these SNPs is you. Consequently, at present, there is no clearly defined clade which these SNPs represent, so no age estimate nor geographical origin can be determined for them. 

                        - Iain.


                      • Charles Moore
                        Also, it isn t just Big Y matches that create clades in the FTDNA system. SNP Pack matches or individual SNP test matches create clades also, whenever two
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jun 8, 2017
                          Also, it isn't just Big Y matches that create clades in the FTDNA system. SNP Pack matches or individual SNP test matches create clades also, whenever two people match. And of course we have results from FGC and YSEQ tests that create clades, and we reflect that on our horizontal subgroup labels.  But the FTDNA system Haplogroup labels won't reflect that.

                          Charles
                          "And the beat goes on"...

                          On Jun 8, 2017, at 5:37 AM, Wayne Kauffman dna_wayne@... [R1b1c_U106-S21] <R1b1c_U106-S21@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                           

                          Remember that FTDNA is identifying some of the new clades without being prompted by project admins. We are the ones left trying to figure out the BY named variant positions.  Whatever the process is not all new clades are identified so we need to work off of the FGC comparisons and Iain's comparison to get remaining new ones named.    A recent shared Hurst/Horst result wasn't picked up by FTDNA.  So a pointer to a lot of existing FGC named SNPs was sent in.  Over 20 named SNPs went onto FTDNA's tree across 2 clades with that one new result. FTDNA added several new BY names in the process.

                          -Wayne



                          From: "Iain McDonald gubbins@... [R1b1c_U106-S21]" <R1b1c_U106-S21@yahoogroups.com>
                          To: Yahoogroups <r1b1c_u106-s21@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2017 3:39 AM
                          Subject: [R1b1c_U106-S21] Re: Halo Group Questions

                           
                          Hi Mike,

                          > I was wondering what the group's thoughts are on the new sub clades, BY16584, BY16585, BY16586, BY16587, BY16588 and BY16589. They are all equivalent. Do we have age estimates on them and where were they geographically in that time period?

                          It's not clear to me who has registered these names at Family Tree DNA - perhaps it is one of the other admins, but we normally only ask for this once two or more people are positive for these SNPs. I had been hoping the person who registered them would chip in about this question, because at the moment, the only person I can find who is positive for these SNPs is you. Consequently, at present, there is no clearly defined clade which these SNPs represent, so no age estimate nor geographical origin can be determined for them. 

                          - Iain.


                        • mthompson760
                          Hi lain and Charles. My Big Y match is Douglas S Williams. I have invited him to join and he has not. Charles can locate him in FTdna s system? Can you get
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jun 8, 2017
                            Hi lain and Charles. My Big Y match is Douglas S Williams. I have invited him to join and he has not. Charles can locate him in FTdna's system?  Can you get that information to lain. 

                            Thank you

                            Mike Thompson
                          • mthompson760
                            Douglas S Williams in FTdna s system.
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jun 8, 2017
                              Douglas S Williams in FTdna's system.
                            • Mike W
                              FTDNA has a file of the BY SNPs that currently are from BY5000 to BY19752. I ask for a copy periodically so other project admins should be able to get it too.
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jun 8, 2017
                                FTDNA has a file of the BY SNPs that currently are from BY5000 to BY19752.  I ask for a copy periodically so other project admins should be able to get it too.

                                Here's my latest copy. It was current as of yesterday.

                                https://www.dropbox.com/s/rwugefqensk89ye/BYSNPs5000plus.xlsx?dl=0

                                I download both YBrowse and this file so I can add pos-anc-der details and synonym SNPs to the R1b Outline Tree (which is just FTDNA's haplotree) .PDF file. I post this for the R1b project.

                                Mike


                                On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 5:37 AM, Wayne Kauffman dna_wayne@... [R1b1c_U106-S21] <R1b1c_U106-S21@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                 

                                Remember that FTDNA is identifying some of the new clades without being prompted by project admins. We are the ones left trying to figure out the BY named variant positions.  Whatever the process is not all new clades are identified so we need to work off of the FGC comparisons and Iain's comparison to get remaining new ones named.    A recent shared Hurst/Horst result wasn't picked up by FTDNA.  So a pointer to a lot of existing FGC named SNPs was sent in.  Over 20 named SNPs went onto FTDNA's tree across 2 clades with that one new result. FTDNA added several new BY names in the process.

                                -Wayne



                                From: "Iain McDonald gubbins@... [R1b1c_U106-S21]" <R1b1c_U106-S21@yahoogroups. com>
                                To: Yahoogroups <r1b1c_u106-s21@yahoogroups. com>
                                Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2017 3:39 AM
                                Subject: [R1b1c_U106-S21] Re: Halo Group Questions

                                 
                                Hi Mike,

                                > I was wondering what the group's thoughts are on the new sub clades, BY16584, BY16585, BY16586, BY16587, BY16588 and BY16589. They are all equivalent. Do we have age estimates on them and where were they geographically in that time period?

                                It's not clear to me who has registered these names at Family Tree DNA - perhaps it is one of the other admins, but we normally only ask for this once two or more people are positive for these SNPs. I had been hoping the person who registered them would chip in about this question, because at the moment, the only person I can find who is positive for these SNPs is you. Consequently, at present, there is no clearly defined clade which these SNPs represent, so no age estimate nor geographical origin can be determined for them. 

                                - Iain.



                              • robertbrookscasey
                                I found two BY16584+ testers in the Williams FTDNA project: 237082 Williams BY16584+ 378155 Williams BY16584+
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jun 8, 2017
                                  I found two BY16584+ testers in the Williams FTDNA project:

                                  237082    Williams    BY16584+
                                  378155    Williams    BY16584+
                                • mthompson760
                                  Good morning. 378155 is me, Mike Thompson and the other is Douglass S Williams. Charles can you get his information from the Williams project. Also, will this
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jun 13, 2017
                                    Good morning. 378155 is me, Mike Thompson and the other is Douglass S Williams. Charles can you get his information from the Williams project. Also, will this clade be newer or older than FGC8590?

                                    Skal 

                                    Mike
                                  • Charles Moore
                                    It will be significantly more recent. I will invite him to join us. Charles And the beat goes on ...
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jun 13, 2017
                                      It will be significantly more recent. I will invite him to join us.

                                      Charles
                                      "And the beat goes on"...

                                      On Jun 13, 2017, at 7:26 AM, mthompson760@... [R1b1c_U106-S21] <R1b1c_U106-S21@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                       

                                      Good morning. 378155 is me, Mike Thompson and the other is Douglass S Williams. Charles can you get his information from the Williams project. Also, will this clade be newer or older than FGC8590?


                                      Skal 

                                      Mike

                                    • mthompson760
                                      Thank you Charles and I sincerely hope you are feeling better. Skal Mike
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Jun 13, 2017
                                        Thank you Charles and I sincerely hope you are feeling better.

                                        Skal

                                        Mike
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