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Re: [R1b1c_U106-S21] Re: British name analysis?

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  • tidmay
    I agree. Many surnames have origins other than I suspect, even from different countries than I expect. Many (most?) surnames seem to morph in many different
    Message 1 of 96 , Aug 1 5:01 PM
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      I agree. Many surnames have origins other than I suspect,
      even from different countries than I expect.
      Many (most?) surnames seem to morph in many different ways.
      Surnames with different spellings often have the same origins.
      This is the fascinating thing about surnames. Sometimes
      the different forms or spellings may help in pinpointing geographic
      locations, sometimes not.

      In America this confusion is exemplified at immigration and censuses when
      the recorder simply wrote the name down as he or she heard it or how
      it sounded to him or her. Depending on the circumstances, sometimes
      the new spelling and/or new surname stuck.

      Tim

      --------------------------------------------
      On Thu, 8/1/13, Michele Rogers <mm_rogers@...> wrote:

      Subject: Re: [R1b1c_U106-S21] Re: British name analysis?
      To: "R1b1c_U106-S21@yahoogroups.com" <R1b1c_U106-S21@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Thursday, August 1, 2013, 5:46 PM

      I tend to agree with Ian
      on the difficulty of divining the original name from its
      English or American, or Aussie descendant. Recently I posted
      about a name that appears fairly often in my autosomal
      matches "Grizzle, and Grizzel". It turns out
      the name was originally Grieswald. Had a distant cousin not
      learned this through research, I doubt anyone could have
      figured it out just by examining the different forms of
      "Grizzle". Kind of sounds vaguely Germanic or
      French - and someone at one of the sites that sells a family
      crest for every name has probably made up a plausible
      sounding (but completely erroneous) history for
      it.
      Getting
      to the source of a name morphed and transliterated by
      English speakers over centuries is going to be a real
      challenge. Its rather like the party game, where you start
      with a simple word or phrase passed from one person to
      another. Almost invariably - when it gets to the last person
      in the chain, it has changed beyond recognition.
      Mike
      R
      From: Iain McDonald
      <gubbins@...>
      To:
      "r1b1c_u106-s21@yahoogroups.com"
      <r1b1c_u106-s21@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent:
      Thursday, August 1, 2013 10:19 AM
      Subject: RE:
      [R1b1c_U106-S21] Re: British name analysis?

      It's not just the north of
      Scotland that had little mixing of populations. Even in
      turbulent times, there is relatively little population
      shift. The Industrial Revolution has brought about some of
      the greatest population shifts in history, yet 42 out of my
      64 gggg-grandparents come from Northumberland (7 come from
      neighbouring Durham, 8 from north-east Scotland, 4 from
      elsewhere in Scotland and 2 from Lancashire). But perhaps
      this makes a bigger point: my surname comes from
      Aberdeenshire. Localising genetics geographically works
      better with autosomal DNA than Y-DNA, hence the PoBI
      project.
      With
      Y-DNA, we have the
      advantage that surnames are usually linked
      to Y-DNA and often trace locality much further back than
      paper trails can. Nowhere is this more true than the
      innumerable testers from the USA, whose paper trails do not
      cross the Atlantic. For names like Smith, Jones (and indeed
      McDonald), the lack of localisation means using these to try
      to determine geographical or ethnic origins is pretty much
      useless. However, let me give you a different example. My
      closest Y-DNA matches are Hadden, Clapp, Bess and Lawrence.
      Only the Haddens know where in the UK they are from (also
      Aberdeen). But the other surnames localise respectively in
      northern Devon, southern Devon, and
      south-central/south-eastern England. I've used this to
      infer a probable migration of my ancestors from Devon to
      Aberdeenshire in medieval times.
      So I
      think surname analysis of very young clusters like this may
      have something to offer us, geographically speaking. We may
      tease a Norman connection out of some groups. Beyond that,
      it may get a bit vague separating Dane from Saxon and
      Briton, but we don't know unless we try. How this kind
      of project is best approached is something I don't
      really have a good feeling for, but I think it might be
      worth trying.
      Cheers,
      Iain.
    • Nancy Cordell
      Then there are those non-paternity events that mess with names. My Boyd s seem to be an example of just such an event or events. Nancy
      Message 96 of 96 , Aug 7 4:23 PM
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        Then there are those "non-paternity" events that mess with names. My Boyd's seem to be an example of just such an event or events.

        Nancy
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