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Re: Z343 - confirmed

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  • Shawn Sinclair
    There are Youngs on my FTDNA page but only at 12 markers, but noticed most have not tested for Z343 as I am and more from the group, perhaps someone can tell
    Message 1 of 7 , May 1, 2013
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      There are Youngs on my FTDNA page but only at 12 markers, but noticed most have not tested for Z343 as I am and more from the group, perhaps someone can tell us again where to see the surnames with Z343 again, or perhaps just post them here. So hello fellow Z343+.
      Some of my Sinclair participants show similar matches to the surname Young, which I find interesting, and they are also are from Scotland, and most if not all my matches that show a Young connection are U106. Where is the earliest Young progy from and do they have any geographic connections to Germany or France?
      Best,
      Shawn
    • Raymond Wing
      Shawn, If you go to the Files section of this Yahoogroup, the very bottom file (Z9 SNPs & STRs spreadsheet) has Z343 and CTS7080 at the very bottom of the
      Message 2 of 7 , May 1, 2013
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        Shawn,

        If you go to the Files section of this Yahoogroup, the very bottom file (Z9 SNPs & STRs spreadsheet) has Z343 and CTS7080 at the very bottom of the chart. 
         
        Ray

        From: Shawn Sinclair <sofiatemplar@...>
        To: R1b1c_U106-S21@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2013 2:19 PM
        Subject: [R1b1c_U106-S21] Re: Z343 - confirmed

         
        There are Youngs on my FTDNA page but only at 12 markers, but noticed most have not tested for Z343 as I am and more from the group, perhaps someone can tell us again where to see the surnames with Z343 again, or perhaps just post them here. So hello fellow Z343+.
        Some of my Sinclair participants show similar matches to the surname Young, which I find interesting, and they are also are from Scotland, and most if not all my matches that show a Young connection are U106. Where is the earliest Young progy from and do they have any geographic connections to Germany or France?
        Best,
        Shawn


      • John M Rhodes
        Steve, I am interested in knowing the basis for your suspicion that your family moved from the Bowmont Valley (Roxburghshire) to Stirlingshire, I have a
        Message 3 of 7 , May 2, 2013
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          Steve,

          I am interested in knowing the basis for your suspicion that your family moved from the Bowmont Valley (Roxburghshire) to Stirlingshire,  I have a family that might have done the same thing.

          John M Rhodes

          On 2013-04-30, at 8:34 PM, "Hobbe" <clanyoungvp@...> wrote:

           

          Very cool!
          I've ordered the snp.
          Thank you, Ray.
          My documented "Young" line dates to Patrick Young, born about 1727 in Slamannan, Stirlingshire, Scotland.
          We suspect the family were refuges from the Bowmont Valley in the Borders of Scotland after the Union of the Crowns in 1603.
          ~Steve

          --- In R1b1c_U106-S21@yahoogroups.com, Raymond Wing <wing_genealogist@...> wrote:
          >
          > Steve,
          >
          > There is a new SNP (discovered in the Geno 2.0 chip) you may want to test for. It is CTS7080. This is available for purchase at FTDNA (using the same method you purchased your Z343 test). If I had to take a guess, I'd say you would be negative for this new SNP (based on your STR results), but we need more individuals tested before we can be more certain of this.
          >
          > At the very bottom of the "Files" section is my Z9 SNPs & STRs spreadsheet. I still have to update it with your result, but hope to get that done tonight. (You are on Row 585 on my chart on my home computer).
          >
          > Ray

        • Hobbe
          John, I m going to cut most events short, assuming you have knowledge about them. Ask if you d like an expansion. Keep in mind that the theory is highly
          Message 4 of 7 , May 2, 2013
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            John,
            I'm going to cut most events short, assuming you have knowledge about them. Ask if you'd like an expansion. Keep in mind that the theory is highly speculative, but is probably the most likely scenario.

            *The Falkirk area did not have a large population of Youngs before my ancestors apeared there. The same is true for much of Scotland with the exception of a well documented family of gentry located around Forfarshire in the Northeast.
            *The borders did have a large population of Youngs. George Young of Otterburn (late 1500's) was said to be able to put together a raiding party of several hundred men from his name.
            *King James VI of Scotland became King James I of England in 1603.
            *To settle the border reivers down he sent many people off to the 30 years war (with orders not to come back), many were sent to the gallows, many went underground and moved away.
            *Scottish naming patterns for my family indicate a lot of alternating James, Patricks and Alexanders. The border Youngs had high usage of these names. Records show that in 1605 – 1606, three James Young's were outlawed from that region.

            In a history book written by Douglas Young is this:
            "In the early 1600s, after the union of Crowns, King James came down hard on the lawless Borderers and many of the clans were scattered. The Youngs of Otterburn, for example, were outlawed in the year 1605. Other leading riders from Barnhills, the Cove and Blakedean were outlawed as well. Many Borderers signed up or were impressed into the King's service in the Bohemian Wars. Others left for the colonies in Northern Ireland or the Americas. Still more left for the cities such as Glasgow or Edinburgh. The once common name of Young on the Borders slowly began to decline, as did many of the other names. In fact the Borders were depopulated and cleared, much like the Highlands were to be at a later time period. Entire villages disappeared into history and the Bowmont Valley, which at one time was the home of more than 500 inhabitants, dropped to less than 50."


            My Father and his Genealogist came up with this:
            "Since there doesn't appear to be any connection to the Young's of the northeast of Scotland, it is interesting to speculate that the family is from the Bowmont Valley in the Borders. In 1605 – 1606, three James Young's were outlawed from this region. They could have fled to the area between Edinburgh and Glasgow (Slamannan?) and in three or four generations became our ancestors."

            Before 1603 there was occasional documantation of the name being used throughout Scotland and one one very small area with overwhelming use of the name. Currently, Young is the 15th most common name in all Scotland and around the Forth and the Clyde it is the 13th most common name. I'd hazard a guess that a good chunk of them are border reivers.

            ~Steve Young

            --- In R1b1c_U106-S21@yahoogroups.com, John M Rhodes <johnmrhodes409@...> wrote:
            >
            > Steve,
            >
            > I am interested in knowing the basis for your suspicion that your
            > family moved from the Bowmont Valley (Roxburghshire) to
            > Stirlingshire, I have a family that might have done the same thing.
            >
            > John M Rhodes
            >
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