Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

SNP test recommendations for kit 146790 in 464xccgg DNA project

Expand Messages
  • dnalister@comcast.net
    Hi, I m the lead administrator of the 464xccgg project. This project is focused on groups of men who tend to receive distinctive results on FTDNA s advanced
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 1, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi,

      I'm the lead administrator of the 464xccgg project. This project is focused on groups of men who tend to receive distinctive results on FTDNA's advanced DYS464X test. We have a member whose results are somewhat similar to the typical results for men in the largest such group, but his surname his Hispanic and most of the men in the group are from the British Isles, and his haplotype is similar to the haplotype of at least one of our other project members with a Hispanic name whose DYS464X test did not link him to the large group with the distinctive DYS464X test results. I think this man may be a member of the North South R-P312 cluster discovered by Ken Nordtvedt. He has 37 marker results, and I think some SNP test results for him might be helpful. I know that there have been quite a few R-P312 SNP discoveries recently, and I may have seen something about a SNP for the North/South group.

      Are there any experts here who could look at this man's haplotype and check my tentative assignment to the North/South cluster and/or suggest what SNPs he is likely to carry? I know that I could recommend a deep clade test for him, but the best SNP or SNPs for him to test may only be available through the advanced orders system, and I want to give him a good recommendation. You can view his haplotype on the 464xccgg project results page:

      http://www.familytreedna.com/public/DYS464x%20ccgg/default.aspx?section=yresults

      He is in the ungrouped group. I think we have other R-P312xL21 men in that project subgroup, and would be interested in people's thoughts on other men in the ungrouped group as well.

      Kirsten Saxe
    • casa_de_tierra
      Z196 is the SNP that has been found in men of the North/South cluster. At least one Mexican-American man has tested Z196+, Ruiz ySearch ID AEDQT. Is your kit
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 2, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Z196 is the SNP that has been found in men of the North/South cluster. At least one Mexican-American man has tested Z196+, Ruiz ySearch ID AEDQT. Is your kit in ySearch? Kit 146790 has DYS448=18 and H4=10, which are two of the indicators of the North/South cluster, so I think that it would be worth testing it for Z196.

        Jim Turner

        --- In R-P312Project@yahoogroups.com, dnalister@... wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > I'm the lead administrator of the 464xccgg project. This project is focused on groups of men who tend to receive distinctive results on FTDNA's advanced DYS464X test. We have a member whose results are somewhat similar to the typical results for men in the largest such group, but his surname his Hispanic and most of the men in the group are from the British Isles, and his haplotype is similar to the haplotype of at least one of our other project members with a Hispanic name whose DYS464X test did not link him to the large group with the distinctive DYS464X test results. I think this man may be a member of the North South R-P312 cluster discovered by Ken Nordtvedt. He has 37 marker results, and I think some SNP test results for him might be helpful. I know that there have been quite a few R-P312 SNP discoveries recently, and I may have seen something about a SNP for the North/South group.
        >
        > Are there any experts here who could look at this man's haplotype and check my tentative assignment to the North/South cluster and/or suggest what SNPs he is likely to carry? I know that I could recommend a deep clade test for him, but the best SNP or SNPs for him to test may only be available through the advanced orders system, and I want to give him a good recommendation. You can view his haplotype on the 464xccgg project results page:
        >
        > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/DYS464x%20ccgg/default.aspx?section=yresults
        >
        > He is in the ungrouped group. I think we have other R-P312xL21 men in that project subgroup, and would be interested in people's thoughts on other men in the ungrouped group as well.
        >
        > Kirsten Saxe
        >
      • Joel Peres
        My Great Granpa s Family was from Nuevo Leon Mexico/New Mexico Territory/Colorado, & the Zacatecas region of Mexico & I tested positive for Z196. Please let
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 2, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          My Great Granpa's Family was from Nuevo Leon Mexico/New Mexico
          Territory/Colorado, & the Zacatecas region of Mexico & I tested
          positive for Z196. Please let me know if there's other snps that I
          should test for.
          my kit # is N94262

          On 8/2/11, casa_de_tierra <casa_de_tierra@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Z196 is the SNP that has been found in men of the North/South cluster. At
          > least one Mexican-American man has tested Z196+, Ruiz ySearch ID AEDQT. Is
          > your kit in ySearch? Kit 146790 has DYS448=18 and H4=10, which are two of
          > the indicators of the North/South cluster, so I think that it would be worth
          > testing it for Z196.
          >
          > Jim Turner
          >
          > --- In R-P312Project@yahoogroups.com, dnalister@... wrote:
          >>
          >> Hi,
          >>
          >> I'm the lead administrator of the 464xccgg project. This project is
          >> focused on groups of men who tend to receive distinctive results on
          >> FTDNA's advanced DYS464X test. We have a member whose results are somewhat
          >> similar to the typical results for men in the largest such group, but his
          >> surname his Hispanic and most of the men in the group are from the British
          >> Isles, and his haplotype is similar to the haplotype of at least one of
          >> our other project members with a Hispanic name whose DYS464X test did not
          >> link him to the large group with the distinctive DYS464X test results. I
          >> think this man may be a member of the North South R-P312 cluster
          >> discovered by Ken Nordtvedt. He has 37 marker results, and I think some
          >> SNP test results for him might be helpful. I know that there have been
          >> quite a few R-P312 SNP discoveries recently, and I may have seen something
          >> about a SNP for the North/South group.
          >>
          >> Are there any experts here who could look at this man's haplotype and
          >> check my tentative assignment to the North/South cluster and/or suggest
          >> what SNPs he is likely to carry? I know that I could recommend a deep
          >> clade test for him, but the best SNP or SNPs for him to test may only be
          >> available through the advanced orders system, and I want to give him a
          >> good recommendation. You can view his haplotype on the 464xccgg project
          >> results page:
          >>
          >> http://www.familytreedna.com/public/DYS464x%20ccgg/default.aspx?section=yresults
          >>
          >>
          >> He is in the ungrouped group. I think we have other R-P312xL21 men in that
          >> project subgroup, and would be interested in people's thoughts on other
          >> men in the ungrouped group as well.
          >>
          >> Kirsten Saxe
          >>
          >
          >
          >
        • casa_de_tierra
          L176.2 is downstream of Z196, so you might consider testing that. I don t know enough about L176.2 to guess whether or not you would be positive for it. Jim
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 4, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            L176.2 is downstream of Z196, so you might consider testing that. I don't know enough about L176.2 to guess whether or not you would be positive for it.

            Jim Turner

            --- In R-P312Project@yahoogroups.com, Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...> wrote:
            >
            > My Great Granpa's Family was from Nuevo Leon Mexico/New Mexico
            > Territory/Colorado, & the Zacatecas region of Mexico & I tested
            > positive for Z196. Please let me know if there's other snps that I
            > should test for.
            > my kit # is N94262
            >
          • vernade didier
            Was a deep clade R test done ? I mean : did you exclude SRY2627 and M153 ? Z196 includes (presently) 3 main subgroups : L176.2 -------- SRY2627 
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 4, 2011
            • 0 Attachment

              Was a "deep clade R" test done ? I mean : did you exclude SRY2627 and M153 ?
              Z196 includes (presently) 3 main subgroups :
              L176.2 --------> SRY2627 
                        --------> L165 ( unlikely in your case because it's a nordic group)
              M153 (Basque)
              The deep clade test would test for SRY2627 and M153, may be it's cheaper to test each of these 2 without goind through a deep clade test.
              Some L176.2 (not SRY2627 and not L165) exists, it might also be your case.

              Didier

               



              L176.2 is downstream of Z196, so you might consider testing that. I don't know enough about L176.2 to guess whether or not you would be positive for it.

              Jim Turner

              --- In R-P312Project@yahoogroups.com, Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...> wrote:
              >
              > My Great Granpa's Family was from Nuevo Leon Mexico/New Mexico
              > Territory/Colorado, & the Zacatecas region of Mexico & I tested
              > positive for Z196. Please let me know if there's other snps that I
              > should test for.
              > my kit # is N94262
              >

            • Joel Peres
              Didier is right, I did take the deep clade test & these are my results: Z196+ P312+ U152- SRY2627- M65- M222- M153- L21- L2- L176.2- L165- R1b1a2a1a1b is my
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 4, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Didier is right, I did take the "deep clade" test & these are my results:
                Z196+ P312+ U152- SRY2627- M65- M222- M153- L21- L2- L176.2- L165-
                R1b1a2a1a1b is my designation.
                Sorry, I should have stated that I had already taken the deep clade test.  

                On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 3:38 PM, vernade didier <didier.vernade@...> wrote:
                 


                Was a "deep clade R" test done ? I mean : did you exclude SRY2627 and M153 ?
                Z196 includes (presently) 3 main subgroups :
                L176.2 --------> SRY2627 
                          --------> L165 ( unlikely in your case because it's a nordic group)
                M153 (Basque)
                The deep clade test would test for SRY2627 and M153, may be it's cheaper to test each of these 2 without goind through a deep clade test.
                Some L176.2 (not SRY2627 and not L165) exists, it might also be your case.

                Didier


                 



                L176.2 is downstream of Z196, so you might consider testing that. I don't know enough about L176.2 to guess whether or not you would be positive for it.

                Jim Turner

                --- In R-P312Project@yahoogroups.com, Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...> wrote:
                >
                > My Great Granpa's Family was from Nuevo Leon Mexico/New Mexico
                > Territory/Colorado, & the Zacatecas region of Mexico & I tested
                > positive for Z196. Please let me know if there's other snps that I
                > should test for.
                > my kit # is N94262
                >


              • vernade didier
                So, nothing more can be tested right now. However there are SNPs upstream of M153 and at least one might be proposed by FTDNA. Here is a link to a draft tree :
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 4, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  So, nothing more can be tested right now. However there are SNPs upstream of M153 and at least one might be proposed by FTDNA.
                  Here is a link to a draft tree :
                  http://u152.org/images/stories/Draft_P312_Tree.png
                  The SNP  rs1469371  is on the latest  chip from 23andME but there seems to be a problem in the testing. FTDNA might be able to propose it. I suggest you write and ask if you can be tested.

                   

                  Didier is right, I did take the "deep clade" test & these are my results:

                  Z196+ P312+ U152- SRY2627- M65- M222- M153- L21- L2- L176.2- L165-
                  R1b1a2a1a1b is my designation.
                  Sorry, I should have stated that I had already taken the deep clade test.  

                  On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 3:38 PM, vernade didier <didier.vernade@...> wrote:
                   


                  Was a "deep clade R" test done ? I mean : did you exclude SRY2627 and M153 ?
                  Z196 includes (presently) 3 main subgroups :
                  L176.2 --------> SRY2627 
                            --------> L165 ( unlikely in your case because it's a nordic group)
                  M153 (Basque)
                  The deep clade test would test for SRY2627 and M153, may be it's cheaper to test each of these 2 without goind through a deep clade test.
                  Some L176.2 (not SRY2627 and not L165) exists, it might also be your case.

                  Didier


                   



                  L176.2 is downstream of Z196, so you might consider testing that. I don't know enough about L176.2 to guess whether or not you would be positive for it.

                  Jim Turner

                  --- In R-P312Project@yahoogroups.com, Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > My Great Granpa's Family was from Nuevo Leon Mexico/New Mexico
                  > Territory/Colorado, & the Zacatecas region of Mexico & I tested
                  > positive for Z196. Please let me know if there's other snps that I
                  > should test for.
                  > my kit # is N94262
                  >


                • Richard Hulan
                  The breakdown Didier gave of Z196 didn t include the whole North-South cluster -- which is a very big Z196+ group, separate from L176.2 and apparently upstream
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 4, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    The breakdown Didier gave of Z196 didn't include the whole North-South cluster -- which is a very big Z196+ group, separate from L176.2 and apparently upstream from M153.  There is no SNP available to test for it, yet; but a clue to it seems to be that you should probably have DYS437=14 and DYS448=18.  The original definition of NS cluster included GATA H4=10, but H4=11 also seems to work.  There may also be a little drift in the 14-18 part (like, 15-19 at those markers).  Presumably, at some distance from Nordtvedt's definition, one would not be part of his NS cluster -- but still Z196+, if that's how one tested.

                    On Aug 4, 2011, at 7:49 PM, vernade didier wrote:

                     

                    So, nothing more can be tested right now. However there are SNPs upstream of M153 and at least one might be proposed by FTDNA.
                    Here is a link to a draft tree :
                    http://u152.org/images/stories/Draft_P312_Tree.png
                    The SNP  rs1469371  is on the latest  chip from 23andME but there seems to be a problem in the testing. FTDNA might be able to propose it. I suggest you write and ask if you can be tested.

                     

                    Didier is right, I did take the "deep clade" test & these are my results:

                    Z196+ P312+ U152- SRY2627- M65- M222- M153- L21- L2- L176.2- L165-
                    R1b1a2a1a1b is my designation.
                    Sorry, I should have stated that I had already taken the deep clade test.  

                    On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 3:38 PM, vernade didier <didier.vernade@...> wrote:
                     


                    Was a "deep clade R" test done ? I mean : did you exclude SRY2627 and M153 ?
                    Z196 includes (presently) 3 main subgroups :
                    L176.2 --------> SRY2627 
                              --------> L165 ( unlikely in your case because it's a nordic group)
                    M153 (Basque)
                    The deep clade test would test for SRY2627 and M153, may be it's cheaper to test each of these 2 without goind through a deep clade test.
                    Some L176.2 (not SRY2627 and not L165) exists, it might also be your case.

                    Didier


                     



                    L176.2 is downstream of Z196, so you might consider testing that. I don't know enough about L176.2 to guess whether or not you would be positive for it.

                    Jim Turner

                    --- In R-P312Project@yahoogroups.com, Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > My Great Granpa's Family was from Nuevo Leon Mexico/New Mexico
                    > Territory/Colorado, & the Zacatecas region of Mexico & I tested
                    > positive for Z196. Please let me know if there's other snps that I
                    > should test for.
                    > my kit # is N94262
                    >



                  • dnalister@comcast.net
                    Thank you, Jim. This information was very helpful. Kirsten ... From: casa_de_tierra To: R-P312Project@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 5, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thank you, Jim. This information was very helpful.

                      Kirsten


                      From: "casa_de_tierra" <casa_de_tierra@...>
                      To: R-P312Project@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2011 10:04:14 AM
                      Subject: [R-P312Project] Re: SNP test recommendations for kit 146790 in 464xccgg DNA project

                       



                      Z196 is the SNP that has been found in men of the North/South cluster. At least one Mexican-American man has tested Z196+, Ruiz ySearch ID AEDQT. Is your kit in ySearch? Kit 146790 has DYS448=18 and H4=10, which are two of the indicators of the North/South cluster, so I think that it would be worth testing it for Z196.

                      Jim Turner

                      --- In R-P312Project@yahoogroups.com, dnalister@... wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi,
                      >
                      > I'm the lead administrator of the 464xccgg project. This project is focused on groups of men who tend to receive distinctive results on FTDNA's advanced DYS464X test. We have a member whose results are somewhat similar to the typical results for men in the largest such group, but his surname his Hispanic and most of the men in the group are from the British Isles, and his haplotype is similar to the haplotype of at least one of our other project members with a Hispanic name whose DYS464X test did not link him to the large group with the distinctive DYS464X test results. I think this man may be a member of the North South R-P312 cluster discovered by Ken Nordtvedt. He has 37 marker results, and I think some SNP test results for him might be helpful. I know that there have been quite a few R-P312 SNP discoveries recently, and I may have seen something about a SNP for the North/South group.
                      >
                      > Are there any experts here who could look at this man's haplotype and check my tentative assignment to the North/South cluster and/or suggest what SNPs he is likely to carry? I know that I could recommend a deep clade test for him, but the best SNP or SNPs for him to test may only be available through the advanced orders system, and I want to give him a good recommendation. You can view his haplotype on the 464xccgg project results page:
                      >
                      > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/DYS464x%20ccgg/default.aspx?section=yresults
                      >
                      > He is in the ungrouped group. I think we have other R-P312xL21 men in that project subgroup, and would be interested in people's thoughts on other men in the ungrouped group as well.
                      >
                      > Kirsten Saxe
                      >

                    • mikewww7
                      I think that Richard is making the point that there are R-Z196* people out there and most of those so far have been people that fall into or almost fall into
                      Message 10 of 10 , Aug 5, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I think that Richard is making the point that there are R-Z196* people out there and most of those so far have been people that fall into or almost fall into what's called the North-South cluster.

                        I would like to add the comment that there are other R-Z196* people that are not in the North-South cluster so we do NOT know the true extent of Z196+.

                        We know a large number of people are Z196+ because they are positive for the immediately downstream SNP's L176.2+ or M153+. We also know that downstream of L176.2+ are L165 and SRY2627 so if you are positive for either of those two you are L176.2+ and therefore Z196+.

                        Back to the point I was on... There are Z196+ L176.2- M153- people who are NOT North-South cluster. Anyone who is truly P312* should consider testing for Z196. DF19 is another possibility for P312* people.

                        Mike W

                        P.S. P312* = P312+ U152- L21- Z196- L238-

                        --- In R-P312Project@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hulan <rhulan@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > The breakdown Didier gave of Z196 didn't include the whole North-South cluster -- which is a very big Z196+ group, separate from L176.2 and apparently upstream from M153. There is no SNP available to test for it, yet; but a clue to it seems to be that you should probably have DYS437=14 and DYS448=18. The original definition of NS cluster included GATA H4=10, but H4=11 also seems to work. There may also be a little drift in the 14-18 part (like, 15-19 at those markers). Presumably, at some distance from Nordtvedt's definition, one would not be part of his NS cluster -- but still Z196+, if that's how one tested.
                        >
                        > On Aug 4, 2011, at 7:49 PM, vernade didier wrote:
                        >
                        > > So, nothing more can be tested right now. However there are SNPs upstream of M153 and at least one might be proposed by FTDNA.
                        > > Here is a link to a draft tree :
                        > > http://u152.org/images/stories/Draft_P312_Tree.png
                        > > The SNP rs1469371 is on the latest chip from 23andME but there seems to be a problem in the testing. FTDNA might be able to propose it. I suggest you write and ask if you can be tested.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Didier is right, I did take the "deep clade" test & these are my results:
                        > >
                        > > Z196+ P312+ U152- SRY2627- M65- M222- M153- L21- L2- L176.2- L165-
                        > > R1b1a2a1a1b is my designation.
                        > > Sorry, I should have stated that I had already taken the deep clade test.
                        > >
                        > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 3:38 PM, vernade didier <didier.vernade@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Was a "deep clade R" test done ? I mean : did you exclude SRY2627 and M153 ?
                        > > Z196 includes (presently) 3 main subgroups :
                        > > L176.2 --------> SRY2627
                        > > --------> L165 ( unlikely in your case because it's a nordic group)
                        > > M153 (Basque)
                        > > The deep clade test would test for SRY2627 and M153, may be it's cheaper to test each of these 2 without goind through a deep clade test.
                        > > Some L176.2 (not SRY2627 and not L165) exists, it might also be your case.
                        > >
                        > > Didier
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > L176.2 is downstream of Z196, so you might consider testing that. I don't know enough about L176.2 to guess whether or not you would be positive for it.
                        > >
                        > > Jim Turner
                        > >
                        > > --- In R-P312Project@yahoogroups.com, Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > My Great Granpa's Family was from Nuevo Leon Mexico/New Mexico
                        > > > Territory/Colorado, & the Zacatecas region of Mexico & I tested
                        > > > positive for Z196. Please let me know if there's other snps that I
                        > > > should test for.
                        > > > my kit # is N94262
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.