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Midwest USA 80meter QSO

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  • wb8wka
    Hi: Been having lots of fun talking to myself on Q15X25 (two copies of MIXW on two rigs, one hooked to dummy load) but would like to do some testing with real
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 14, 2005
      Hi:

      Been having lots of fun talking to myself on Q15X25 (two copies of
      MIXW on two rigs, one hooked to dummy load) but would like to do some
      testing with real on the air signals, to test 80 meter NVIS
      propagation with Q15x25.

      Looking for q15x25 QSO with anyone within about 500 miles of Detroit
      Michigan (I'm in Hillsdale MI USA near Ohio/Indiana/Michigan borders).

      I figure we can start on PSK31/MFSK16, then move over to MT63 2K then
      q15x25 (or whatever modes your capable of). Getting good decodes on
      the second reciever, abet your power meter sure doesn't show much
      output (5 watts when I normally can show 40 on PSK31).

      Also I heard about some sort of 18 meter q15x25 skipnet? Even a
      connection rejection would be useful for test purposes. Anyone have
      any info/frequency/calls for that one?

      Regards,

      Jeff wb8wka
    • Charles Brabham
      ... then ... My station only puts out around 15 watts on 17 meters in Q15x25 mode, but easily puts out 50 watts or more in HF Packet mode on the same freq.
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 14, 2005
        --- In Q15X25@yahoogroups.com, "wb8wka" <wb8wka@y...> wrote:

        > I figure we can start on PSK31/MFSK16, then move over to MT63 2K
        then
        > q15x25 (or whatever modes your capable of). Getting good decodes on
        > the second reciever, abet your power meter sure doesn't show much
        > output (5 watts when I normally can show 40 on PSK31).

        My station only puts out around 15 watts on 17 meters in Q15x25 mode,
        but easily puts out 50 watts or more in HF Packet mode on the same
        freq.

        Wonder why this is so?

        > Also I heard about some sort of 18 meter q15x25 skipnet? Even a
        > connection rejection would be useful for test purposes. Anyone have
        > any info/frequency/calls for that one?

        18.117 LSB Q15x25 mode, 2500 bit rate, Interleave 16

        Setup info given to SkipNet SYSOPs can be seen at:

        http://www.uspacket.org/net117_setup.htm

        The BBS here ( N5PVL-5 ) won't accept direct connections from anyone
        but other BBS stations.

        If you connect to plain old N5PVL though, then you end up in a
        FlexNet node, but the only other place to go from there is a NetRom
        node (RGV) that has troubles with its receiving antenna right now.

        I'm not sure, but you may be able to get into the BBS from the
        FlexNet node, using the "M" command. - Worth a try, anyway. If you
        make it, leave me a message!

        Charles, N5PVL
      • wb8wka
        Hi Charles: No go at 10pm EDT but suspect the band was dead. Also not sure how things work here on 18mhz, as first time on that band. I ll be around during the
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 14, 2005
          Hi Charles:

          No go at 10pm EDT but suspect the band was dead. Also not sure how
          things work here on 18mhz, as first time on that band.

          I'll be around during the day on Friday and will give a listen.

          Regards,

          Jeff wb8wka

          p.s. lower power on Q15X25 is due to higher crest factor due to
          amptitude variations during transmission.


          --- In Q15X25@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Brabham" <n5pvl@u...> wrote:
          > --- In Q15X25@yahoogroups.com, "wb8wka" <wb8wka@y...> wrote:
          >
          > > I figure we can start on PSK31/MFSK16, then move over to MT63 2K
          > then
          > > q15x25 (or whatever modes your capable of). Getting good decodes
          on
          > > the second reciever, abet your power meter sure doesn't show much
          > > output (5 watts when I normally can show 40 on PSK31).
          >
          > My station only puts out around 15 watts on 17 meters in Q15x25
          mode,
          > but easily puts out 50 watts or more in HF Packet mode on the same
          > freq.
          >
          > Wonder why this is so?
          >
          > > Also I heard about some sort of 18 meter q15x25 skipnet? Even a
          > > connection rejection would be useful for test purposes. Anyone
          have
          > > any info/frequency/calls for that one?
          >
          > 18.117 LSB Q15x25 mode, 2500 bit rate, Interleave 16
          >
          > Setup info given to SkipNet SYSOPs can be seen at:
          >
          > http://www.uspacket.org/net117_setup.htm
          >
          > The BBS here ( N5PVL-5 ) won't accept direct connections from
          anyone
          > but other BBS stations.
          >
          > If you connect to plain old N5PVL though, then you end up in a
          > FlexNet node, but the only other place to go from there is a NetRom
          > node (RGV) that has troubles with its receiving antenna right now.
          >
          > I'm not sure, but you may be able to get into the BBS from the
          > FlexNet node, using the "M" command. - Worth a try, anyway. If you
          > make it, leave me a message!
          >
          > Charles, N5PVL
        • Jose Amador
          ... It happens because a good ALC must be peak envelope responsive. Q15X25 uses multiple tones, which produces a signal with a ratio of several times the peak
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 15, 2005
            --- Charles Brabham <n5pvl@...> wrote:

            > My station only puts out around 15 watts on 17
            > meters in Q15x25 mode, but easily puts out 50 watts
            > or more in HF Packet mode on the same
            > freq.
            >
            > Wonder why this is so?

            It happens because a good ALC must be peak envelope
            responsive.

            Q15X25 uses multiple tones, which produces a signal
            with a ratio of several times the peak envelope power
            referred to the average power.

            That is usually what power meters read.

            Multiple tones produce a noise like signal, and it
            would not be unusual to have a peak to average ratio
            of 4:1 and higher. The higher the ratio, the lower
            average power it shows.

            Jose, CO2JA
          • Charles Brabham
            I forgot to mention my schedule. I am on 17 meters Q15x25 mode from 3:00pm to 8:00pm central time. Sundays I m a little bit late getting started. My station
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 15, 2005
              I forgot to mention my schedule. I am on 17 meters Q15x25 mode from
              3:00pm to 8:00pm central time. Sundays I'm a little bit late getting
              started.

              My station beacons every fifteen minutes, if not connected.

              I've heard of several groups interested in using Q15x25 mode on 75
              meters. - Seems like it was New York, Chicago and somewhere else...

              My personal favorite is to bump up the TXDelay to a 800 ms or even one
              second if necessary, in order to make it work over the local VHF or UHF
              voice repeater.

              Sure, you have a long TXD, but Q15x25 can be set up for high MAXFRAME
              and PACLEN values to reduce overhead and at 2500 baud, it's twice as
              fast as most packet to begin with.

              I think people are crazy for not utilizing Q15x25 this way for mixed-
              mode ecomms over VHF/UHF voice repeaters ( and simplex ) - but that's
              just me!

              Charles, N5PVL
            • Charles Brabham
              In the radical uses for Q15x25 category, this puts my VHF/UHF mixed- mode Q15x25 idea to shame... Get a copy of John Hansen s old RadioMirror multicast
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 17, 2005
                In the "radical uses for Q15x25" category, this puts my VHF/UHF mixed-
                mode Q15x25 idea to shame...

                Get a copy of John Hansen's old "RadioMirror" multicast software (
                that works with a KISS TNC ) and hook it up to MixW in virtual KISS
                TNC mode, in Q15x25.

                - A Q15x25 multicast system!

                Hanson's software sent a series of 1kb PACLEN unproto packets with
                next to no time in-between them. - It effectively ran continuously.

                Your transmitter would have to be HEAVY DUTY to operate this mode (
                Q15x25 multicast ) - but imagine the splash you would make on HF with
                that!

                RadioMirror could transfer 20MB a day at 1200 baud, according to the
                author.

                Charles, N5PVL
              • kd4e
                Question: Are all digital modes required to have a busy frequency check activated at all times? I recall back in early packet radio days that was the case and
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 22, 2005
                  Question: Are all digital modes required to have a
                  busy frequency check activated at all times?

                  I recall back in early packet radio days that was
                  the case and it avoided packet stations stepping on
                  one another or on other modes in operation.

                  Given the increasing volume of complaints from Hams
                  re. Pactor III operations firing up on top of ongoing
                  QSO's (and being unavailable for decoding so a non-
                  Pactor III user cannot even discern who it is that just
                  QRM'd them) I wondered what y'all could tell me about
                  other digital modes.

                  I have just acquired a 706 so I can try it and my Jupiter
                  on HF digital modes and still have the other one free for
                  voice modes.

                  Thanks! & 73, doc kd4e
                • wb8wka
                  In the U.S., yes http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/03/03/100/ Which in large part was prompted by automated WinLink stations raping the bands and SCS s
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 7, 2005
                    In the U.S., yes

                    http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/03/03/100/

                    Which in large part was prompted by automated WinLink stations raping
                    the bands and SCS's modems not being able to generate a valid DCD.
                    Just because the gun doesn't have a trigger guard, doesn't mean your
                    not libel if you load it and send it to preschool with your child.

                    I understand some steps are being taken with Scamp, which is a follow
                    on soundcard mode targeted at WinLink.

                    Not sure on Q15X25 on how DCD responds to non-native data energy.


                    --- In Q15X25@yahoogroups.com, kd4e <kd4e@v...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Question: Are all digital modes required to have a
                    > busy frequency check activated at all times?
                    >
                    > I recall back in early packet radio days that was
                    > the case and it avoided packet stations stepping on
                    > one another or on other modes in operation.
                    >
                    > Given the increasing volume of complaints from Hams
                    > re. Pactor III operations firing up on top of ongoing
                    > QSO's (and being unavailable for decoding so a non-
                    > Pactor III user cannot even discern who it is that just
                    > QRM'd them) I wondered what y'all could tell me about
                    > other digital modes.
                    >
                    > I have just acquired a 706 so I can try it and my Jupiter
                    > on HF digital modes and still have the other one free for
                    > voice modes.
                    >
                    > Thanks! & 73, doc kd4e
                    >
                  • kd4e
                    ... Thanks for this! I have forwarded this to interested Hams with a recommendation that they systematically document the offenses and assured them that Riley
                    Message 9 of 10 , Oct 7, 2005
                      > wb8wka wrote:
                      > In the U.S., yes
                      > http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/03/03/100/

                      Thanks for this!

                      I have forwarded this to interested Hams with a
                      recommendation that they systematically document
                      the offenses and assured them that Riley will
                      see to it that his warning is heeded or else serious
                      consequences come to those who ignore him.

                      Help Riley help Ham radio ... again.
                    • Charles Brabham
                      ... I generally watch for lid-like operating behavior with programs like MixW or DigiPan that have a waterfall display. The waterfall s time-line shows the
                      Message 10 of 10 , Oct 10, 2005
                        --- In Q15X25@yahoogroups.com, kd4e <kd4e@v...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > wb8wka wrote:
                        > > In the U.S., yes
                        > > http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/03/03/100/
                        >
                        > Thanks for this!
                        >
                        > I have forwarded this to interested Hams with a
                        > recommendation that they systematically document
                        > the offenses and assured them that Riley will
                        > see to it that his warning is heeded or else serious
                        > consequences come to those who ignore him.
                        >
                        > Help Riley help Ham radio ... again.
                        >

                        I generally watch for lid-like operating behavior with programs like
                        MixW or DigiPan that have a waterfall display.

                        The waterfall's time-line shows the original QSO - and the offending
                        station coming in on top of that QSO graphically.

                        By using ( Alt - Print_Screen ) which puts the current window into
                        the clipboard ( Windows ) I can catch bad guys at it, and paste the
                        image into a graphic program, where I crop out the unecessary part,
                        leaving the waterfall display and the program's status line at the
                        bottom, which displays the time, mode, etc..

                        By doing this, I documented dozens of cases of interference
                        perpetrated by PACTOR bots on 20 and 30 meters. - In fact, I stopped
                        recording the incidents after a while as there was no sport to it...
                        I could tune in on those bands at any time there was activity and
                        find a PACTOR bot crashing somebody's QSO after a very short wait.
                        Way too easy!

                        Here is a typical incident: http://www.uspacket.org/pqrm.htm

                        I would give a ratio of PACTOR related interference in comparasin to
                        interference from other modes/protocols - but during the course of
                        all this monitoring and recording, I did not see anybody's QSO being
                        crashed by Packet, PSK31, MFSK or MT-63. Lots of PACTOR 'activity' to
                        record, but not much of anything else. Obviously interference from
                        these other modes does exist - but it is just as obvious that
                        interference from PACTOR stations happens much, much more often than
                        with the rest of these modes put together.

                        Charles, N5PVL
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