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Just received a Warning

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  • ka2hzo <ronchap@att.net>
    Hi Guys, Help!! I figure Dave and Russ can answer these questions. When I checked my email this morning. I found two messages warning me to stop transmitting
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 11, 2003
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      Hi Guys,

      Help!!

      I figure Dave and Russ can answer these questions.
      When I checked my email this morning. I found two messages warning
      me to stop transmitting with the Q15X25 mode since it has not been
      approved for United Satates Amateurs. If I did not stop they would
      turn this over to Riley Hollingsworth, K4ZDH.

      I had received 2 emails from stations telling me they were VE's.
      One from Florida and one from Texas.
      When I checked them against QRZ I found this to be true.

      I've checked the TAPR web sites and could not find anything about
      Q15X25 being legal or illegal.

      Does anyone have anything in black and white that I could send to
      these people to get them off my back.

      Thanks for your help.

      73
      Ron KA2HZO


      Th
    • n7mjw <n7mjw@yahoo.com>
      Mark explained this to me and I follwed along in the rules and it makes sense. Maximum bandwith allowed is 1000 Hz between Mark and Space tones. Q15, Pactor
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 11, 2003
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        Mark explained this to me and I follwed along in the rules and it
        makes sense.

        Maximum bandwith allowed is 1000 Hz between Mark and Space tones.
        Q15, Pactor III, MT63, ALE, others do not have mark and space, and
        the bandwith between their tones is definatly less than 1000 Hz.

        Maximum bandwith for unattended operation outside specified sub-band
        is 500 Hz. No mention of mark and space.

        Maximum baudrate is 300 baud.

        A mode does not need to be approved for use in the United States. It
        only needs to be pubicly documented, available and un-encrypted.
        Q15, MT63, Pactor III, ALE, others are this.

        I knew this was coming so I brought it up way back when. There are
        those who believe the amateur rules allow you to do only what is
        approved. Also those who believe any wide bandwith mode is evil.
        And those that think any ARQ mode is substantially evil as they are
        suited towards unattneded data networks and mailboxes. We have three
        factions against us.

        AS for the warning. I'd like to see if they issue warnings to all
        the Pactor III stations because they that mode is percicely the
        same.

        We should be carefull about the beacons, and attempt to stay inside
        the sub-bands at all times to negate any accusation of operating
        unattended. In the beginning I researched frequencies inside the sub-
        bands for these reasons.

        Also, I think we all assumed the 2500 bitrate makes 300 baud. 2500/8
        is 312.5 bytes. Close enough, dont know. We should probably reduce
        to a bitrate of 2400.

        Dave








        --- In Q15X25@yahoogroups.com, "ka2hzo <ronchap@a...>" <ronchap@a...>
        wrote:
        > Hi Guys,
        >
        > Help!!
        >
        > I figure Dave and Russ can answer these questions.
        > When I checked my email this morning. I found two messages warning
        > me to stop transmitting with the Q15X25 mode since it has not been
        > approved for United Satates Amateurs. If I did not stop they would
        > turn this over to Riley Hollingsworth, K4ZDH.
        >
        > I had received 2 emails from stations telling me they were VE's.
        > One from Florida and one from Texas.
        > When I checked them against QRZ I found this to be true.
        >
        > I've checked the TAPR web sites and could not find anything about
        > Q15X25 being legal or illegal.
        >
        > Does anyone have anything in black and white that I could send to
        > these people to get them off my back.
        >
        > Thanks for your help.
        >
        > 73
        > Ron KA2HZO
        >
        >
        > Th
      • Ron
        Hi Dave, Thanks so much for the quick response. I was looking at the rules when I just received your email. I was trying to figure out the baud rate too and
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 11, 2003
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          Hi Dave,
           
          Thanks so much for the quick response.
          I was looking at the rules when I just received your email.
          I was trying to figure out the baud rate too and kept comming up with the same "2500/8 
          or 312.5 bytes."  Which I guess just crosses the line and 2400 would be just on the line.
           
          So I will send this off and let them know I'll be using "2400" and hope other people switch to "2400".
           
           
          Thanks so much.
           
          73
          Ron KA2HZO
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 9:10 AM
          Subject: [Q15X25] Re: Just received a Warning

          Mark explained this to me and I follwed along in the rules and it
          makes sense.

          Maximum bandwith allowed is 1000 Hz between Mark and Space tones. 
          Q15, Pactor III, MT63, ALE, others do not have mark and space, and
          the bandwith between their tones is definatly less than 1000 Hz.

          Maximum bandwith for unattended operation outside specified sub-band
          is 500 Hz.  No mention of mark and space.

          Maximum baudrate is 300 baud.

          A mode does not need to be approved for use in the United States.  It
          only needs to be pubicly documented, available and un-encrypted. 
          Q15, MT63, Pactor III, ALE, others are this. 

          I knew this was coming so I brought it up way back when.  There are
          those who believe the amateur rules allow you to do only what is
          approved.  Also those who believe any wide bandwith mode is evil. 
          And those that think any ARQ mode is substantially evil as they are
          suited towards unattneded data networks and mailboxes.  We have three
          factions against us.

          AS for the warning.  I'd like to see if they issue warnings to all
          the Pactor III stations because they that mode is percicely the
          same. 

          We should be carefull about the beacons, and attempt to stay inside
          the sub-bands at all times to negate any accusation of operating
          unattended.  In the beginning I researched frequencies inside the sub-
          bands for these reasons.

          Also, I think we all assumed the 2500 bitrate makes 300 baud.  2500/8
          is 312.5 bytes.  Close enough, dont know.  We should probably reduce
          to a bitrate of 2400.

          Dave








          --- In Q15X25@yahoogroups.com, "ka2hzo <ronchap@a...>" <ronchap@a...>
          wrote:
          > Hi Guys,
          >
          > Help!!
          >
          > I figure Dave and Russ can answer these questions.
          > When I checked my email this morning. I found two messages warning
          > me to stop transmitting with the Q15X25 mode since it has not been
          > approved for United Satates Amateurs.  If I did not stop they would
          > turn this over to Riley Hollingsworth, K4ZDH.
          >
          > I had received 2 emails from stations telling me they were VE's.
          > One from Florida and one from Texas.
          > When I checked them against QRZ I found this to be true.
          >
          > I've checked the TAPR web sites and could not find anything about
          > Q15X25 being legal or illegal.
          >
          > Does anyone have anything in black and white that I could send to
          > these people to get them off my back.
          >
          > Thanks for your help.
          >
          > 73
          > Ron KA2HZO
          >
          >
          > Th


          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          Q15X25-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        • Tomi Manninen
          ... The baud rate for the default 2500 bps is 83.333. One Q15X25 symbol is 30 bits (15 carriers, QPSK) and 83.333 symbols per second makes 2500 bits per
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 11, 2003
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            On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, n7mjw <n7mjw@...> wrote:

            > Also, I think we all assumed the 2500 bitrate makes 300 baud. 2500/8
            > is 312.5 bytes. Close enough, dont know. We should probably reduce
            > to a bitrate of 2400.

            The baud rate for the default 2500 bps is 83.333. One Q15X25 symbol is 30
            bits (15 carriers, QPSK) and 83.333 symbols per second makes 2500 bits per
            second.

            --
            Tomi Manninen Internet: oh2bns@...
            OH2BNS AX.25: oh2bns@...
            KP20ME04 Amprnet: oh2bns@...
          • Ron
            Thanks Tom, I guess we need to find some kind person to write all this up and post it someplace. So when we get a letter from Mr. Riley Hollingsworth we can
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 11, 2003
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              Thanks Tom,

              I guess we need to find some kind person to write all this up and post it
              someplace.
              So when we get a letter from Mr. Riley Hollingsworth we can sent it off to
              him.
              Thanks so much for the help.

              73
              Ron KA2HZO




              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Tomi Manninen
              To: Q15X25@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:54 AM
              Subject: Re: [Q15X25] Re: Just received a Warning


              On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, n7mjw <n7mjw@...> wrote:

              > Also, I think we all assumed the 2500 bitrate makes 300 baud. 2500/8
              > is 312.5 bytes. Close enough, dont know. We should probably reduce
              > to a bitrate of 2400.

              The baud rate for the default 2500 bps is 83.333. One Q15X25 symbol is 30
              bits (15 carriers, QPSK) and 83.333 symbols per second makes 2500 bits per
              second.

              --
              Tomi Manninen Internet: oh2bns@...
              OH2BNS AX.25: oh2bns@...
              KP20ME04 Amprnet: oh2bns@...


              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              Q15X25-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            • Mark Miller
              I would not worry about it too much, before the FCC can complain about Q15X25 the folks sending pictures using F2C on the digital subands will have to be dealt
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 13, 2003
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                I would not worry about it too much, before the FCC can complain about
                Q15X25 the folks sending pictures using F2C on the digital subands will
                have to be dealt with first.

                There certainly needs to be some massive rule changes. I am working with
                the FCC now to see what the best course of action is. It will not be quick
                though.

                73

                Mark N5RFX

                At 11:13 2/11/03 -0500, you wrote:
                >Thanks Tom,
                >
                >I guess we need to find some kind person to write all this up and post it
                >someplace.
                >So when we get a letter from Mr. Riley Hollingsworth we can sent it off to
                >him.
                >Thanks so much for the help.
                >
                >73
                >Ron KA2HZO
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >----- Original Message -----
                >From: Tomi Manninen
                >To: Q15X25@yahoogroups.com
                >Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:54 AM
                >Subject: Re: [Q15X25] Re: Just received a Warning
                >
                >
                >On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, n7mjw <n7mjw@...> wrote:
                >
                > > Also, I think we all assumed the 2500 bitrate makes 300 baud. 2500/8
                > > is 312.5 bytes. Close enough, dont know. We should probably reduce
                > > to a bitrate of 2400.
                >
                >The baud rate for the default 2500 bps is 83.333. One Q15X25 symbol is 30
                >bits (15 carriers, QPSK) and 83.333 symbols per second makes 2500 bits per
                >second.
                >
                >--
                >Tomi Manninen Internet: oh2bns@...
                >OH2BNS AX.25: oh2bns@...
                >KP20ME04 Amprnet: oh2bns@...
                >
                >
                >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                >Q15X25-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                >
                >
                >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                >Q15X25-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • Mark Miller
                ... I agree. I have had to be careful about this also. If you are beaconing outside of the sub bands for unattended operation you need to be at the station.
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 14, 2003
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                  >We should be carefull about the beacons, and attempt to stay inside
                  >the sub-bands at all times to negate any accusation of operating
                  >unattended. In the beginning I researched frequencies inside the sub-
                  >bands for these reasons.

                  I agree. I have had to be careful about this also. If you are beaconing
                  outside of the sub bands for unattended operation you need to be at the
                  station. Also if you are monitoring and someone connects, you need to be
                  there too.

                  This is where I have to be careful. I haven't found a way in MixW reject
                  incoming connect requests, but I have done things like suppress PTT so that
                  the rig will not TX after connect requests.

                  I have been in Israel for the last week. Where is everyone hanging out now?

                  73
                  Mark N5RFX
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