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Fwd: [OSHO_Science] Pythagoras, Atlantis, and the Greatest Luxury

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  • Bodhi Sarango
    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/OSHO_Science/ Pythagoras represents the eternal Pilgrim for philosophia perennis -- the perennial philosophy of life. He is
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 12, 2008
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      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/OSHO_Science/

      Pythagoras represents the eternal Pilgrim for philosophia
      perennis -- the perennial philosophy of life. He is a seeker of
      truth par excellence. He staked all that he had for the search. He
      traveled far and wide, almost the whole known world of those days,
      in search of the Masters, of the mystery schools, of any hidden
      secrets. From Greece he went to Egypt -- in search of the lost
      Atlantis and its secrets.

      In Egypt, the great library of Alexandria was still intact. It had
      all the secrets of the past preserved. It was the greatest library
      that has ever existed on the earth; later on it was destroyed by a
      Mohammedan fanatic. The library was so big that when it was burnt,
      for six months the fire continued.

      Just twenty-five centuries before Pythagoras, a great continent,
      Atlantis, had disappeared into the ocean. The ocean that is called
      Atlantic is so called because of that continent, Atlantis.

      Atlantis was the ancientmost continent of the earth, and
      civilization had reached the highest possible peaks. But whenever a
      civilization reaches a great peak there is a danger: the danger of
      falling apart, the danger of committing suicide.

      Humanity is facing that same danger again. When man becomes
      powerful, he does not know what to do with that power. When the
      power is too much and the understanding is too little, power has
      always proved dangerous. Atlantis was not drowned in the ocean by
      any natural calamity. It was actually the same thing that is
      happening today: it was man's own power over nature. It was through
      atomic energy that Atlantis was drowned -- it was man's own suicide.
      But all the scriptures and all the secrets of Atlantis were still
      preserved in Alexandria.

      All over the world there are parables, stories, about the great
      flood.

      Those stories have come from the drowning of Atlantis. All those
      stories -- Christian, Jewish, Hindu -- they all talk about a great
      flood that had come once in the past and had destroyed almost the
      whole civilization. Just a few initiates, adepts, had survived. Noah
      is an adept; a great Master, and Noah's ark is just a symbol.

      A few people escaped the calamity. With them, all the secrets that
      the civilization had attained survived. They were preserved in
      Alexandria.

      Pythagoras lived in Alexandria for years. He studied, he was
      initiated into the mystery schools of Egypt -- particularly the
      mysteries of Hermes. Then he came to India, was initiated into all
      that the brahmins of this ancient land had discovered, all that
      India had known in the inner world of man.

      For years he was in India, then he traveled to Tibet and then to
      China. That was the whole known world. His whole life he was a
      seeker, a pilgrim, in search of a philosophy -- philosophy in the
      true sense of the word: love for wisdom. He was a lover, a
      philosopher -- not in the modern sense of the word but in the old,
      ancient sense of the word. Because a lover cannot only speculate, a
      lover cannot only think about truth: a lover has to search, risk,
      adventure.

      Truth is the beloved. How can you go on only thinking about it? You
      have to be connected with the beloved through the heart. The search
      cannot be only intellectual; it has to be deep down intuitive. Maybe
      the beginning has to be intellectual, but only the beginning. Just
      the starting point has to be intellectual, but finally it has to
      reach the very core of your being.

      He was one of the most generous of men, most liberal, democratic,
      unprejudiced, open. He was respected all over the world. From Greece
      to China he was revered. He was accepted in every mystic school;
      with great joy he was welcomed everywhere. His name was known in all
      the lands. Wherever he went he was received with great rejoicing.

      Even though he had become enlightened, he still continued to reach
      into hidden secrets, he still continued to ask to be initiated into
      new schools. He was trying to create a synthesis; he was trying to
      know the truth through as many possibilities as is humanly possible.
      He wanted to know truth in all its aspects, in all its dimensions.

      He was always ready to bow down to a Master. He himself was an
      enlightened man -- it is very rare. Once you have become
      enlightened, the search stops, the seeking disappears. There is no
      point.

      Buddha became enlightened... then he never went to any other Master.
      Jesus became enlightened... then he never went to any other Master.
      Or Lao Tzu, or Zarathustra, or Moses.... Hence Pythagoras is
      something unique. No parallel has ever existed. Even after becoming
      enlightened, he was ready to become a disciple to anybody who was
      there to reveal some aspect of truth.

      His search was such that he was ready to learn from anybody. He was
      an absolute disciple. He was ready to learn from the whole
      existence. He remained open, and he remained a learner to the very
      end.

      The whole effort was... and it was a great effort in those days, to
      travel from Greece to China. It was full of dangers. The journey was
      hazardous; it was not easy as it is today. Today things are so easy
      that you can take your breakfast in New York and your lunch in
      London, and you can suffer indigestion in Poona. Things are very
      simple. In those days it was not so simple. It was really a risk; to
      move from one country to another country took years.

      By the time Pythagoras came back, he was a very old man. But seekers
      gathered around him; a great school was born. And, as it always
      happens, the society started persecuting him and his school and his
      disciples. His whole life he searched for the perennial philosophy,
      and he had found it! He had gathered all the fragments into a
      tremendous harmony, into a great unity. But he was not allowed to
      work it out in detail -- to teach people he was not allowed.

      He was persecuted from one place to another. Many attempts were made
      on his life. It was almost impossible for him to teach all that he
      had gathered. And his treasure was immense -- in fact, nobody else
      has ever had such a treasure as he had. But this is how foolish
      humanity is, and has always been. This man had done something
      impossible: he had bridged East and West. He was the first bridge.
      He had come to know the Eastern mind as deeply as the Western mind.

      He was a Greek. He was brought up with the Greek logic, with the
      Greek scientific approach, and then he moved to the East. And then
      he learnt the ways of intuition. Then he learnt how to be a mystic.
      He himself was a great mathematician in his own right. And a
      mathematician becoming a mystic is a revolution, because these are
      poles apart.

      The West represents the male mind, aggressive intellect.

      The East represents the female mind, receptive intuition. East and
      West are not just arbitrary -- the division is very very significant
      and profound.


      And you should not forget Rudyard Kipling: what he said has
      significance, has meaning. He says East and West shall never meet.
      There is a fragment of truth in it, because the meeting seems to be
      impossible; the ways of their working are so diametrically opposite.

      The West is aggressive, scientific, ready to conquer nature. The
      East is non-aggressive, receptive -- ready to be conquered by
      nature. The West is eager to know. The East is patient. The West
      takes every initiative to reach into the mysteries of life and
      existence; it tries to unlock the doors. And the East simply waits
      in profound trust: "Whenever I am worthy, the truth will be revealed
      to me."

      The West is concentration of the mind: the East is meditation of the
      mind. The West is thinking: the East is non-thinking. The West is
      mind: the East is no-mind. And Kipling seems to be logically right,
      that it seems impossible that East and West could ever meet.

      And "the East and the West" does not only represent the earth being
      divided in two hemispheres: it represents your mind too, your brain
      too. Your brain is also divided in two hemispheres just like the
      earth. Your brain has an East in it and a West in it. The left-side
      hemisphere of your brain is the West; it is connected with the right
      hand. And the right-side hemisphere of your brain is the East; it is
      connected with the left hand.

      The West is rightist. The East is leftist. And the processes of both
      are so different.... The left hemisphere of your mind calculates,
      thinks, is logical. All science is produced by it. And the right
      hemisphere of your brain is a poet, is a mystic. It intuits, it
      feels. It is vague, cloudy, misty. Nothing is clear. Everything is a
      kind of chaos, but that chaos has its beauty. There is great poetry
      in that chaos, there is great song in that chaos. It is very juicy.

      The calculative mind is a desert-like phenomenon. And the non-
      calculative mind is a garden. Birds sing there and flowers bloom...
      it is a totally different world.

      Pythagoras was the first man to try the impossible, and he
      succeeded! In him, East and West became one. In him, yin and yang
      became one. In him, male and female became one. He was an
      ardhanarishwar -- a total unity of the polar opposites. Shiva and
      Shakti together: intellect of the highest caliber and intuition of
      the deepest caliber. Pythagoras is a peak, a sunlit peak, and a
      deep, dark valley too. It is a very rare combination.

      But his whole life's effort was destroyed by the stupid people, by
      the mediocre masses. These few verses are the only contribution
      left. These verses can be written on one postcard. This is all that
      is left of that great man's effort, endeavor. And this too is not
      written by his own hand; it seems all that he had written was
      destroyed.

      The day Pythagoras died, thousands of his disciples were massacred
      and burnt.

      Only one disciple escaped the school; his name was Lysis. And he
      escaped, not to save his life -- he escaped just to save something
      of the Master's teachings. These Golden Verses of Pythagoras were
      written by Lysis, the only disciple who survived.

      The whole school was burnt, and thousands of disciples were simply
      murdered and butchered. And all that Pythagoras had accumulated on
      his journeys -- great treasures, great scriptures from China, India,
      Tibet, Egypt, years and years of work -- all was burnt.

      Lysis wrote these few verses. And, as it has been the ancient
      tradition that a real disciple knows no other name than his
      Master's, these verses are not called Lysis' Verses -- they are
      called The Golden Verses of Pythagoras. He has not written his name
      on them.

      This has been happening again and again. It happened with Vyasa in
      India, a great Master. In his name there are so many scriptures that
      it is impossible that one man could write so many scriptures. It is
      humanly impossible. Even if one thousand persons wrote their whole
      lives continuously, then too so many scriptures could not be
      written. Then what happened? They are all authored by Vyasa -- they
      are not all written by Vyasa but by his disciples. But the real
      disciple knows no other name than his Master's. He has disappeared
      in the Master, so whatsoever he writes, he writes in the name of the
      Master. So many theories have been evolved by linguists, by
      scholars, by professors -- they think there have been so many
      Vyasas, many people of the same name. That is all nonsense. There
      has been only one Vyasa. But down the centuries many people loved
      him so deeply that when they wrote something, they felt it was the
      Master writing through them -- they signed the Master's name because
      they were only vehicles, just instruments, mediums.

      The same happened in Egypt to Hermes: many scriptures, all written
      by the disciples. And the same happened with Orpheus in Greece, and
      the same with Lao Tzu in China and Confucius in China.

      The disciple loses his identity. He becomes utterly one with the
      Master. But something of immense value has been destroyed by the
      stupidity of people.

      Pythagoras is the first experiment in creating a synthesis.

      Twenty-five centuries have passed since then and nobody else has
      tried it again. Nobody else before had done it, and nobody else has
      done it afterwards either. It needs a mind which is both --
      scientific and mystic. It is a rare phenomenon. It happens once in a
      while.

      There have been great mystics -- Buddha, Lao Tzu, Zarathustra. And
      there have been great scientists -- Newton, Edison, Einstein. But to
      find a man who is at home with both worlds, easily at home, is very
      difficult. Pythagoras is that kind of man -- a class unto himself.
      He cannot be categorized by anybody else.

      The synthesis that he tried was needed, particularly in his days, as
      it is needed today -- because the world is again at the same point.
      The world moves in a wheel. The Sanskrit word for "the world" is
      samsara. Samsara means the wheel. The wheel is big: one circle is
      completed in twenty-five centuries. Twenty-five centuries before
      Pythagoras, Atlantis committed suicide -- out of man's own
      scientific growth. But without wisdom, scientific growth is
      dangerous. It is putting a sword in the hands of a child.

      Now twenty-five centuries have passed since Pythagoras. Again the
      world is in a chaos. Again the wheel has come to the same point --
      it always comes to the same point. It takes twenty-five centuries
      for this moment to happen. After each twenty-five centuries the
      world comes into a state of great chaos.

      Man becomes uprooted, starts feeling meaningless. All the values of
      life disappear. A great darkness surrounds. Sense of direction is
      lost. One simply feels accidental. There seems to be no purpose, no
      significance. Life seems to be just a by-product of chance. It seems
      existence does not care for you. It seems there is no life after
      death. It seems whatsoever you do is futile, routine, mechanical.
      All seems to be pointless.

      These times of chaos, disorder, can either be a great curse, as it
      happened in Atlantis, or they can prove a quantum leap in human
      growth. It depends on how we use them. It is only in such great
      times of chaos that great stars are born.

      Pythagoras was not alone. In Greece, Pythagoras and Heraclitus were
      born. In India, Buddha and Mahavira and many others. In China, Lao
      Tzu, Chuang Tzu, Confucius, Mencius, Lieh Tzu, and many more. In
      Iran, Zarathustra. In the brahmin tradition, many great upanishadic
      seers. In the world of Judaism, Moses.... All these people, these
      great Masters were born at a certain stage in human history --
      twenty-five centuries ago.

      Now we are again in a great chaos, and man's fate will depend on
      what we do. Either we will destroy ourselves like the civilization
      that destroyed itself in Atlantis -- the whole world will become a
      Hiroshima; we will be drowned in our own knowledge; in our own
      science we will commit suicide, a collective suicide. A few, a Noah
      and a few of his followers, may be saved, or may not be.... Or,
      there is a possibility that we can take a quantum leap.

      Either man can commit suicide, or man can be reborn. Both doors are
      open.

      If such times can create people like Heraclitus and Lao Tzu and
      Zarathustra and Pythagoras and Buddha and Confucius, why can they
      not create a great humanity? They can. But we go on missing the
      opportunity.

      The ordinary masses live in such unconsciousness that they can't see
      even a few steps ahead. They are blind. And they are the majority!
      The coming twenty-five years, the last part of this century, is
      going to be of immense value. If we can create a great momentum in
      the world for meditation, for the inward journey, for tranquillity,
      for stillness, for love, for God... if we can create a space in
      these coming twenty-five years for God to happen to many many
      people, humanity will have a new birth, a resurrection. A new man
      will be born.

      And once you miss these times, then for twenty-five centuries again
      you will remain the same. A few people will achieve enlightenment,
      but it will remain only for a few people. Here and there, once in a
      while, a person will become alert and aware and divine. But the
      greater part of humanity goes on lagging behind -- in darkness, in
      utter darkness, in absolute misery. The greater part of humanity
      goes on living in hell.

      But these moments when chaos spreads and man loses his roots in the
      past, becomes unhinged from the past, are great moments. If we can
      learn something from the past history, if we can learn something
      from Pythagoras.... People could not use Pythagoras and his
      understanding, they could not use his great synthesis, they could
      not use the doors that he had made available. A single individual
      had done something immense, something impossible, but it was not
      used.

      I am trying to do exactly the same again.

      I feel a very deep spiritual affinity with Pythagoras. I am also
      bringing you a synthesis of East and West, of science and religion,
      of intellect and intuition, of the male mind and the female mind, of
      the head and the heart, of the right and the left. I am also trying
      in every possible way to create a great harmony, because only that
      harmony can save. Only that harmony can give you a new birth.

      But there is every possibility that what was done to Pythagoras will
      be done to me. And there is every possibility what was done to
      Pythagoras' followers will be done to my sannyasins. But still, even
      knowing that possibility, the effort has to be made again. Because
      this is a valuable time. It comes only once in twenty-five centuries
      when the wheel can move in a new way, can take a new direction.

      You all have to risk, and you have to risk all that you have. And
      risk it with great joy! Because what can be more joyous than to give
      birth to a new man, to become vehicles for a new man, for a new
      humanity?

      It is going to be painful as every birth is painful. But the pain
      can be welcomed if you understand what is going to happen through
      it. If you can see the child coming out of it, then the pain is no
      more pain -- just as the mother can accept the pain of the child's
      birth. The pain is irrelevant: her heart is dancing with joy -- she
      is going to give birth to life, she is being creative. She is making
      this world more alive; a new child is being born through her. God
      has used her as a vehicle; her womb has proved fertile. She is
      happy, in great joy. She rejoices, although the pain is there on the
      periphery. But when this great joy is there, the pain simply
      functions as a background and makes the joy even more loud.
      Remember....

      My sannyasins can become an energy womb, an energy field. A great
      synthesis is happening here. East and West are meeting here. And if
      we can make this impossible thing happen, man will live in a totally
      different way in the future. He will not need to live in the same
      old hell. Man can live in love, in peace. Man can live in great
      friendliness. Man can live a life which is nothing but a
      celebration. Man can make this earth divine.

      Yes: this very earth can become the paradise and this very body the
      Buddha.

      The sutras, they are few.

      Pythagoras' sutras are divided into three parts; they are known as
      the three famous P's of Pythagoras: preparation, purification,
      perfection.

      Preparation means getting ready, into a receptive mood, becoming
      available, opening up. Preparation means creating a thirst, a
      longing for truth. Preparation means, not only curious, not only
      intellectually interested in what truth is, but committed to the
      search. Not just as a speculator standing outside but as a
      participant.

      Preparation is the introductory part -- to create a great thirst in
      you. Whenever you come close to a Master, the first thing that he is
      going to give you is a fiery thirst. A great longing he will give to
      you; he will sow the seeds of great longing. In fact, he will make
      you very discontented.

      You may have come to him in search of contentment, you may have come
      to him to be consoled, but he will make you aflame, afire, with a
      new desire that you have not even dreamt about, of which you have
      never been aware. Maybe it was lurking there somewhere in the dark
      nooks and corners of your being, or hiding in some recesses
      underground -- he will bring it forth into light, he will provoke it
      into a great fire. He will pour all his energy into you, to make you
      so thirsty, so discontented, that you start the search and you
      become ready to risk all; that you forget all about other desires,
      that you pour all your desires into one stream, that your only
      desire, day and night, becomes truth -- or God, or Nirvana. Those
      are just names for the same phenomenon.

      Preparation means the disciple is being awakened -- awakened to the
      truth that we are existing in darkness and light has to be searched
      for and sought, awakened to the fact that we have been wasting our
      lives, that this is not the right way to live. Unless one starts
      moving towards God, life remains empty, impotent. The disciple has
      to be shocked, shaken, out of his dreams -- dreams of money and
      power politics and prestige -- and he has to be given a new dream,
      the ultimate dream, in which all dreams will be consumed. The
      ultimate dream is to know truth, to know that which is, to know that
      from which we come, to know that source and to know that goal to
      which we are going.

      Then the second part is purification. When the desire has arisen
      then you have to be purified, because to reach the ultimate truth
      you will have to drop much unnecessary weight, much luggage that you
      have always carried. You have carried it because you have been
      thinking it is very valuable. Your system has to be purified of all
      the toxic things that you have absorbed on the way. And we have been
      drinking poison, many kinds of poison. One is a Hindu. Another is a
      Mohammedan, another is a Christian -- these are all poisons,
      prejudices. They keep you tethered to the society, to the
      conditionings of the society.

      Purification means one has to drop all conditionings, all
      ideologies, all prejudices, all concepts, all philosophies...all
      that you have been taught by others. One has to become a clean
      slate -- a tabula rasa -- one has to become utterly clean. Only when
      you are utterly clean, when nothing is written on you, can God write
      something. Only when you are utterly silent and all words given by
      the society have disappeared can God speak to you. Truth can whisper
      its mysteries into your ears only when you are absolutely empty --
      emptiness is purity.

      Purification is a purgative part. Man has to drop many things. In
      fact, truth is not far away -- you have just accumulated many things
      around yourself. You have grown many layers around yourself, many
      personalities around yourself, many masks you are wearing. Hence you
      cannot see your original face. All those masks have to be dropped.
      You have to become authentic, truly as you are, utterly naked as you
      are.

      Purification means: Stop hiding! Stop lying! Stop being phony!

      And third is perfection. When you have stopped being phony, when you
      have dropped all the poisons that you had gathered on the way, when
      the dust is cleaned off the mirror, then perfection starts happening
      of its own accord.

      Perfection is the unitive part -- Unio Mystica.

      First the desire, intense desire, a total desire... because only if
      you are totally desirous of truth then you will be ready to go
      through the pains of purification. If the desire is lukewarm you
      will not be ready to go through the pains of purification.

      It is painful to be purified! It is like taking pus out of your
      body -- it hurts. Although it is good in the long run -- if the pus
      is out, the poison is out and you will heal soon -- but it hurts. To
      take the pus out is painful. But to leave it inside is to help it to
      grow; it will spread all over your body.

      One can only be ready to go through purification if the desire is so
      total that one is ready even to die for it if that is needed. And it
      is a kind of death -- because the personality that you have always
      thought you are will have to die. You will have to drop all that you
      are identified with. And that has been your ego. You will have to
      surrender all that you have been claiming up to now and bragging up
      to now; all that has been precious to you has to be dropped as utter
      rubbish. It IS painful. It feels as if you are losing your kingdom
      and you are becoming a beggar.

      Unless the desire is total you will not be ready to do it. And when
      purification has happened, when you have dropped all that is non-
      essential, then the essential perfects itself. You need not become
      perfect! You have only to create the space in which perfection
      grows, happens. Perfection is a happening.

      The first sutra -- preparation:

      Render to the immortal gods the consecrated cult; guard then thy
      faith.

      Lord Bacon, a great scientific mind, has written in his famous book,
      Novum Organum, that Pythagoras was a great fanatic. Now, this is
      utter nonsense. Bacon's book is really great; except for this one
      statement, the book is of immense value.

      It is said that there are three great books in the world. First is
      Aristotle's Organum -- "organum" means principle. The second is
      Bacon's Novum Organum -- new principle. And third is Ouspensky's
      Tertium Organum -- the third principle. And they are really great
      books, incomparable.

      But it is very surprising how Bacon concluded that Pythagoras was a
      fanatic -- because Pythagoras was just the opposite, the absolute
      opposite of a fanatic. If he had been a fanatic he would not have
      entered into all kinds of esoteric, occult schools. If he had been a
      fanatic he would not have been so open to learn from every possible
      source. In fact, fanaticism has never been part of the Greek mind.

      The philosophic mind cannot be fanatic, cannot be dogmatic. That is
      a prerequisite of philosophy, that you have to be open, that you
      have to inquire, that you have to doubt, that you have to question,
      and that you have to remain available to truth in whatsoever form it
      comes. That you are not to decide beforehand; you have not to fall
      into that kind of attitude which has already concluded without
      knowing. You are not to be a victim of the fallacy of "aprioriism" --
      that you have already accepted from the very beginning without
      inquiring, without knowing, without experiencing.

      I have tried hard to see why Bacon should call Pythagoras a fanatic.
      Fanaticism came out of the Judaic mind; it was never part of the
      Hindu mind or the Chinese mind or the Greek mind. It came out of the
      Jews. And it spread to Christians and Mohammedans because both are
      offshoots of Judaism.

      The idea that "We are the chosen people of God" is dangerous. It
      creates fanaticism. The idea that "We have the truth, and nobody
      else" is dangerous; that "There is only one God and no other Gods"
      is dangerous -- because that one God is going to be my God. And then
      what will happen to your God? Then you are wrong, then you are a
      sinner. Then you have to be persuaded, converted. If you allow
      easily, okay; otherwise you have to be forced and coerced so that
      you can drop the wrong God.

      Pythagoras lived in so many countries, with so many different
      visions of life, with so many philosophical standpoints, with so
      many religions -- he could not be a fanatic. It seems Bacon knew
      nothing about Pythagoras.

      The first sutra says:

      Render to the immortal gods...

      He does not use the word "God" but "Gods" -- that is significant.
      That is the state of a non-fanatic mind. "Gods" -- why plural? Why
      not "God"? Because the moment you say "God" you are falling into
      that dangerous trap...then what will happen to other peoples' Gods?

      Pythagoras is not a monotheist; he does not believe in one God. He
      says: All the peoples of the world and all their approaches are
      true. And he knows it, because he has followed many many paths;
      almost all existent paths Pythagoras followed many many paths;
      almost all existent paths Pythagoras followed. And he always reached
      the same peak.

      There are many paths by which to reach the peak. The mountain has
      many paths, but they all reach the same peak. You can go from the
      south or from the north or from the east or from the west... you can
      follow a very rocky track, or you can follow a very different track.
      There are many alternatives.

      Pythagoras knows truth is one, but he does not say it. Truth is one
      un-said. Once you say it, then please don't use the singular; then
      it is better to use the plural. The Vedas say: Truth is one, but
      wise people have described it in many ways.

      Render to the immortal gods the consecrated cult...

      He had lived with many people, worshippers of different Gods. He
      says to his disciples: When you go to the temple, worship the God of
      the temple, and worship the way people are worshipping there.
      Respect the people who are worshipping and praying. And when you go
      to the mosque, worship the way people are worshipping there. And
      when you go to the church or the synagogue, worship the way people
      are worshipping there.

      This is my approach too. All prayers are good. All prayers reach to
      him, and all paths ultimately end in him. There is no need to create
      any antagonism. To my sannyasins this is my message: If you want a
      silent, isolated place, a temple or a church or a mosque, then
      whichever is close by, enter there. All temples and all churches and
      all mosques are yours. Claim that "Whichever place is dedicated to
      God is ours. Jerusalem and Kaaba and Kailash and Girnar -- all are
      ours." I give you all the temples of the world as yours and all the
      scriptures of the world as yours.

      Pythagoras is saying to his disciples: Wherever you are, watch the
      people, respect their prayer, respect their God, respect their
      vision. It may be only one aspect, but it is an aspect of God
      himself. It may be only one face -- God has many faces -- but all
      the manifestations are his. In one way he descends in Krishna, in
      another he descends in Christ, in still another he descends into
      Moses. All prophets are his, all messengers are his.

      Render to the immortal gods the consecrated cult...

      And whatsoever you believe, don't just believe it -- consecrate it,
      make it holy by living. Let it not remain just an intellectual
      belief in the head: it has to become existential. Then it is
      consecrated, then you have made it holy and sacred.

      Beliefs, if they are only thoughts, are useless. Unless they become
      your very blood, bones and marrow, unless you live them...if you
      feel something is true, live it! because that will be the only proof
      that you feel it is true. There is no other proof. Only your life is
      a proof of your belief.

      But that does not mean you should impose a belief upon yourself.
      That does not mean you should force a belief and a character upon
      yourself. That will not be making it sacred: that will be hypocrisy.
      And how can hypocrisy be sacred? Live it, not from the without
      towards the within, but just the opposite: from the within towards
      the without. First experience a truth....

      For example: I say meditate. Now, you can make it just a belief --
      that it is good to meditate, that meditation contains great truths,
      that you can now argue with others about the beauties, about the
      mysteries of meditation. You have never meditated yourself, and you
      don't have time enough because of the arguments and the thinking
      about and reading about meditation... and you have completely
      forgotten that meditation has to be tasted, not to be argued.

      Or, you can impose, violently, some meditative posture upon
      yourself. You can sit silently like a Buddha -- although there is no
      buddhahood inside, no silence, no purity, no innocence. The inner
      talk continues, but on the surface you can sit like a stone statue.
      This is hypocrisy: you are simply pretending. This is not the way to
      consecrate. This is not the way to make something sacred.

      You have to really go into meditation, not to pretend. And whenever
      you live a truth, the truth becomes consecrated.

      Render to the immortal gods the consecrated cult...

      And whatsoever you have known, offer it to God, go on offering it to
      God -- whatsoever you have known. Whatsoever experience has happened
      to you, of truth, of beauty, of love, go on offering it to God, go
      on offering in deep gratitude.

      Guard then thy faith:

      But don't tell it to people. Guard it. Offer it to the God, but
      don't talk about it, otherwise you will be in danger. The masses are
      foolish. They cannot understand. It is beyond them. Guard! Keep it
      secret deep down in your heart. Open your heart to the Gods. Open
      your heart to your Master, or open your heart to the friends who are
      following the same path, the fellow-travelers, the fellow-seekers.
      But don't open your heart in the marketplace -- you will be
      misunderstood.

      And the misunderstanding will create disturbance for you, it will
      distract your search, it will disrupt your energies. It will create
      turmoil in you. Truths can be communicated only to people who have
      some understanding.

      Guard then thy faith:

      And whatsoever trust has arisen in you, whatsoever faith is born in
      you, keep it secret. It has to become a seed in your heart. If you
      just throw the seed on the ground it will not grow into a tree,
      because it is open. It has to go deep into the womb of the earth,
      into the darkness of the earth. There it will disappear, dissolve,
      and a tree will be born.

      Whatsoever trust has arisen in you, let it become a seed in your
      heart, let it disappear into the soil of the heart. There it will
      grow into a big tree. Yes, one day it will happen that you will not
      be able to contain it any more, but then what can you do? As long as
      you can contain, contain it. As long as you can keep it a secret,
      keep it a secret. Just like the child in the mother's womb remains
      secret for nine months, but one day the mother cannot contain it....
      The child has grown. Now the child is ready to be born, then it is
      perfectly okay.

      Why is Pythagoras saying it? Why in the first sutra? For a certain
      reason: because whenever you have a little glimpse of truth, the
      mind tends to talk about it. And in that very talking you lose it.
      It is like an abortion. Let it remain for nine months a secret, a
      mystery, known only to yourself, or your beloved, or a few friends,
      but not to the public. It is a private phenomenon.

      Yes, one day it is going to become public. One day you will not be
      able to contain it any more. It will have become so big, bigger than
      you, that it will have to overflow. When it starts overflowing, it
      is another matter. You become a Master then. But till that moment
      arrives, be very guarded, be very watchful. Don't talk about your
      inner experiences to each and everybody. Keep alert, because truth
      is very difficult to get hold of and it is very easy to lose track
      of. Trust is very difficult to be born in, and very easy to
      dissipate.

      Revere the memory of the illustrious heroes, of spirits, demi-
      gods....

      First:

      Render to the immortal gods the consecrated cult. Guard then the
      faith:

      Second sutra: Remember all those who have attained before you,
      cherish their memory -- that will help you on the way. There will be
      many moments when suspicion will arise, doubts will arise; there
      will be long long dark nights of the soul when you will feel utterly
      lost, when you will start thinking of going back and being just the
      ordinary person you had been before. In those moments revere the
      memory of the buddhas revere the memory of all those great heroes
      who have attained to truth.

      In Pythagoras' language, the hero means one who has become
      enlightened, who has attained the truth. The only heroic deed in
      life is to become realized. All else is very ordinary.

      You can become very famous -- it is very easy. You can have
      political power -- it does not need much intelligence. You can earn
      money -- you have only to be a little cunning and calculative. These
      are not great things.

      The only great thing that makes a life great and sublime is to know
      truth, is to know God, is to be truth, is to be God. But the journey
      is very alone.

      Revere the memory of the illustrious heroes...

      ...Of Buddha, of Lao Tzu, of Krishna, of Christ, of Moses, of
      Mohammed, of Mahavira. Remember! That's why I am talking on so many
      Masters: so you can remember that you are not alone on the path.
      Many have succeeded before you. You will also succeed. If so many
      have succeeded, why not you? Many have preceded you and reached. You
      are not moving alone; many are ahead of you. It is a long procession
      of truth-seekers. You are part of a great chain. You may be a small
      drop, but you are part of a great river -- the river of uddhas, of
      all the enlightened people of the world.

      That's why I am talking about so many enlightened people: to give
      you courage, to give you confidence; to give you the sense that you
      are in a great chain, part of a golden chain, and you are not moving
      alone. There is no need to be afraid. You cannot be lost!

      Revere the memory of the illustrious heroes, of spirits, demi-gods.…

      One who attains to God becomes a demi-god, becomes a God himself.
      One who has known him has become him. Cherish the memory, remind
      yourself. And find out with whom you feel affinity. Do you feel
      affinity with Moses? Do you feel affinity with Zarathustra? If you
      feel some affinity, then the best way is to ponder over the sayings
      of Zarathustra or Moses -- meditate, think of their lives, create a
      climate around yourself. Because if you feel affinity with somebody,
      that means you are of the same type.

      And it is not a question of your accidental birth. You may be born a
      Mohammedan and you may not feel any affinity with Mohammed. There is
      no necessity. Birth is accidental. You may be born a Hindu and you
      may not feel any affinity with Krishna, or you may even feel a
      certain antagonism. You may not be the type!

      So don't be too much identified with your birth. Roam around. Have a
      little more freedom. Look around. Whichever flower attracts you,
      follow that. Whichever fragrance calls you, follow that fragrance.
      So you may be a Hindu by birth, but if you feel that the Koran
      simply rings bells in your heart, then the Koran is your scripture.
      Forget all about Hinduism! Then Mohammed is your man -- forget all
      about Krishna!

      You may be born a Mohammedan, but if seeing the statue of Buddha
      something immediately settles in you, becomes serene, calm and cool;
      just the same of Buddha and you feel great love arising in you for
      this unknown mysterious person…. Then forget all about Mohammedanism
      and the Koran and Mohammed Then create the climate of Buddha around
      you, because that will be helpful, that will nourish you, that will
      strengthen you.

      The second part: purification. This was preparation: respect all the
      Gods of the world, all the temples, all the sacred places; respect
      all the scriptures. This is your respect for other human beings. And
      remember with great love all those who have preceded you on the path
      and have reached.

      This will prepare a climate in you. And this will create a great
      desire in you, this will become a longing. And you will be gripped
      by the longing, you will be possessed by the longing. If Buddha has
      touched your heart, a great longing is bound to arise: How to become
      a Buddha? If Christ has been felt at the deepest core of your being,
      then it is bound to happen that you will start working, searching:
      How to become a Christ? How to attain to Christ-consciousness? Once
      the desire is there, then purification is possible.

      The second part: purification.

      Be a good son, just brother; spouse tender, and good father.

      You will be surprised by this sutra, but it is of immense value:

      Be a good son, just brother; spouse tender, and good father.

      You will think, "What has it to do with spirituality?" It has much
      to do with spirituality. You have to create a peaceful surrounding --
      only then can you fall into meditation. You have to create an
      atmosphere, an energy field -- only then can you go inwards.

      In Gurdjieff's school in Fontainebleau it was written on the
      gate: "If you have not settled your accounts with your father, go
      back." First settle your accounts with your father, then come.
      Unless you respect your father, there is no possibility of your
      growing. Strange! Why? What has it to do with the search?

      And from another corner there is psychoanalysis which says: "Settle
      your accounts with your mother." Unless that is settled, you will
      never feel settled. You will remain tense. The whole of
      psychoanalytic work is how to close accounts between you and your
      mother -- gracefully, lovingly.

      Pythagoras seems to be the first to say it exactly, simply: Be a
      good son…. What does it mean to be a good son? Does it mean to be a
      slave, utterly obedient? If you are a slave, you are not a good son.
      If you are utterly obedient, you are a hypocrite. Then what does it
      mean to be a good son?

      If you ask people they will say, "A good son means: do whatsoever
      your father says." It is not that simple -- because you can do it
      from the outside and you can resist it from the inside. That's what
      children have to do! They are helpless. Whatsoever the parents say,
      they have to do it, willingly, unwillingly, reluctantly -- they have
      to do it. That creates a split in them. They become two. They start
      becoming false, phony.

      So one way that is ordinarily thought: just be obedient to the
      father and you are a good son. That is not the meaning of
      Pythagoras. Then does he mean rebel against the father? Go against
      him? Do just the opposite of whatsoever he says? Be a hippie or
      yippie or something? If he says have short hair then have long hair?
      If he says, "Take a bath every day," then forget all about taking a
      bath for years? If he says, "Cleanliness is next to God," then be
      dirty and claim that dirtiness is next to God? No, that is not the
      meaning of being a good son either.

      In fact, the second thing has happened in the world because the
      first has persisted too long. Too much enforced obedience has
      created a reaction. Then who is a good son?

      A good son is one who is alert, understanding, respectful; who
      listens to the father because the father knows much -- he has lived,
      he has experienced life, he has more experience. He listens to the
      father. He tries to understand the father. He is open. He is not in
      a hurry either to obey or to disobey.

      A good son is one who is ready to listen, to understand, to learn.
      And then if you feel that you agree with the father, do it. If you
      feel you don't agree with the father, then say it. There is no
      question of reaction. Just make it plain that you don't agree. You
      will do it, but it will be done with forced effort. It will make you
      phony. If the father wants, you will do it, but it will make you
      phony, it will make you split, schizophrenic. It will divide you.

      A good communion is needed between the father and the son, because
      the father represents the past and the son represents the future. A
      bridge is needed. And it cannot be one-sided, so it is not only for
      the son to be a good son: the final thing is to be a good father
      too. He is creating a family atmosphere in which meditation can grow
      easily.

      A good son is one who is alert, ready to obey the father when he
      feels he is right, ready to say to the father, "I am not willing to
      do it -- it will be false, it will be phony." And ready to go with
      the father if he cannot decide on his own, because there may be
      things which you cannot feel either right or wrong. Then follow the
      father; he knows better.

      And the father simply represents the past. The father simply
      represents all father figures, all those who are older than you. The
      father is simply a symbol of all those who have lived more than you,
      experienced more than you -- the teachers, the elders. A great
      respect is needed -- respect for their life, respect for their
      experience.

      There is no need to become a slave, and there is no need to react
      against them. Understanding is needed -- neither obedience nor
      reaction. And if obedience comes out of understanding, it is
      beautiful. And if sometimes rebellion comes out of understanding, it
      is beautiful. But it has to come out of understanding, not out of
      reaction.

      There are people who will not do a certain thing because their
      father says to do it. How can they do it? Just because the father is
      saying it, they cannot do it -- they will do the opposite. Their
      egos are in conflict. And there are people who know that it is
      wrong, but they will do it because the father says to do it. Both
      are wrong.

      The good son is one who listens to the father, to all father-
      figures, tries to understand with great respect, with openness, with
      no conclusions. And then whatever decision arises in his being, to
      follow or not to follow, he goes with it. It is neither reaction nor
      obedience: it is simply acting out of understanding.

      Be a just brother.... With all those who are of your age, be just,
      don't be unfair. Don't exploit, because if you exploit you create a
      tension around yourself. Create friendship around yourself, because
      growth will be easier in a friendly atmosphere.

      ...Spouse tender.... With your wife, with your husband, be tender,
      be soft, because love has the other side of hate in it, and unless
      you understand what it means to be tender, soft, loving, there is
      every possibility love will bring great hate in you.

      People love the same person, and the same person they hate. And that
      hate destroys all love, poisons all possibilities of love. And love
      is a great phenomenon. The person who has missed love will never
      know what prayer is, will never be able to pray. It is only love's
      experience that prepares you to pray.

      Be a spouse tender...love the woman or the man with great
      tenderness, grace. That has disappeared from the world. People's
      relationships have become very ungraceful. They have lost the whole
      language of tenderness -- their love life is so full of hate and
      anger and rage.

      That may be one of the reasons why God has become dead in this
      century. Love has disappeared: prayer cannot arise. Love is the
      flower, prayer is the fragrance. If the flower is not there, then
      there cannot be any fragrance.

      ...And good father. And in your own turn, the circle is complete --
      be a good father. What does it mean to be a good father? Don't
      enforce anything on your child. Give your love, give your
      understanding, but always make it clear that the choice is the
      child's. If he wants to follow it he can follow, but he is following
      his choice. If he wants not to follow, he is free not to follow --
      again he is following his choice. Make everything clear to the
      child. You love him, so give your experience to him but don't
      enforce it, don't command. Let him understand. Let understanding be
      the only law, and let him follow his understanding.

      Now you can understand: the father has to be just a helper. The
      father has not to mould the child in a certain pattern that he
      wants; he has not to use the child for his own ambitions. He has to
      love the child, make him strong, make him more alert, so that he can
      search out his own ways in life. Make him more and more independent.

      The good father does not cripple the child, does not force the child
      to depend on him. And if there is a good father, naturally the son
      will be good, because he will not be forced into any slavery and he
      will not have to react either.

      And if you have been a good son, in your own turn one day you will
      become a father and you will be a good father.

      This is the family atmosphere, the space in which we live. This
      space has to be of intimacy, of love, of grace. Only then will
      meditation be easier and spiritual growth enhanced.

      Choose for thy friend, the friend of virtue; yield to his gentle
      counsels, profit by his life, and for a trifling grievance never
      leave him.…

      Friendship has also disappeared from the world. What you call
      friendship has nothing to do with the ancient idea of friendship.
      Your friendship is just accidental. You work in the same office, so
      you have become friendly. Or you study in the same college, so you
      become friendly. This is not real friendship.

      Pythagoras says: Choose for thy friend . You cannot choose your
      father, you cannot choose your mother, you cannot choose your
      family -- but you can choose your friend. You can choose your woman,
      you can choose your man -- that too is an extension of friendship.

      Choose for thy friend, the friend of virtue….

      ...One who has some grace, who has some flowering, who has some
      quality around him, who has an energy field of virtue. By "virtue"
      is not meant the righteous, no. Not the holier-than-thou, no.
      By "virtue" is meant one in whose company you suddenly start feeling
      a tremendous well-being; in whose company, in whose vibe, something
      starts dancing in you; whose presence helps you to soar high.

      Choose a friend, and then ultimately you will be able to choose a
      Master -- because the Master is the ultimate friend. If you cannot
      choose friends you will not be able to choose the Master either.
      Choose good friends, and then one day you will be able to choose the
      ultimate friend.

      Yield to his gentle counsels, profit by his life….

      And when you choose a friend, listen to his counsels. He will not
      enforce them -- they will be gentle whisperings. He will not be very
      loud. He will not argue, he will not command -- he will only
      suggest, he will only hint, he will only indicate. And that is the
      case with the ultimate friend, the Master.

      Buddha says: buddhas only point the way. They don't make it very
      loud because they don't want to be violent. They don't want to drag
      you according to themselves; they have no desire to dominate you.
      They simply express whatsoever they have known and understood -- now
      it is up to you to follow or not to follow.

      And learn from his life, be profited by his life -- not only his
      words, but see the way the friend lives. See his actual life and
      watch it. This is the only way to learn in life. People are
      scriptures -- you have to learn how to read the language. People are
      great secrets, each person is carrying a great secret. If you know
      how to listen to it you will be tremendously benefited.

      And for a trifling grievance never leave him;
      if thou canst at least: for a most rigid law binds power to
      necessity.

      Pythagoras says there are two laws: one is of necessity, the other
      is of power. The law of necessity applies to people who are
      unconscious. People who live mechanically, they live out of
      necessity. There is another law higher than necessity: the law of
      power. The more conscious you become, the more you go out of
      necessity, you transcend necessity, you start living out of power,
      out of abundant power. Then your life is not of necessity.

      For example: a person speaks out of necessity because he cannot
      resist the temptation to speak. Buddhas also speak, but with no
      necessity: it is out of power, out of abundant power They are
      silent; there is no temptation, no obsession to speak. They can
      remain silent for ever. But still they speak. If they speak, they
      speak out of power.

      You love out of necessity. Buddhas also love -- they love out
      of...so much energy is there that it has to be shared. So much power
      is happening, it has to be given. You live out of necessity, they
      live out of power.

      Buddhas are the greatest luxury in existence.

      These two laws are rooted in one primordial law. They are part of
      one law, two aspects of one law. In China that law is called tao, in
      India that law is called dhamma, in Greece that law is called logos,
      Jews have called it torah. It is the same law.

      The whole existence is based in one law, but that law has two
      aspects. One aspect for those who are unconscious -- they live like
      slaves, robots. And another aspect of freedom, of power, of immense
      joy -- that aspect happens only when you are awakened, enlightened.
      And to have these two laws harmoniously adjusted in your life is the
      basic message of Pythagoras.

      When these two laws are in harmony, you are in harmony. When these
      two laws are in harmony, then your body follows the law of necessity
      and your soul follows the law of power. Then your mind follows the
      law of necessity, and your heart follows the law of power. Then you
      are a meeting of the sky and the earth, body and soul, the visible
      and the invisible. And that's what Buddhahood is, that's what
      enlightenment is.

      Osho,
      Philosophia Perennis, Volume 1, Number 1

      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/OSHO_Science/
    • Mike Cassell
      Wait there appears to be an isue of dates that doesn t make sense. Pythagoras was born around 570 B.C. and the Library of Alexandria in Egypt appears to have a
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 12, 2008
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        Wait there appears to be an isue of dates that doesn't make sense. Pythagoras was born around 570 B.C. and the Library of Alexandria in Egypt appears to have a date from around 280 B.C. or so built by Pharoah Ptolemy Soters son, right... am I missing something?

        Bodhi Sarango <bodhi.sarango@...> wrote: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/OSHO_Science/

        Pythagoras represents the eternal Pilgrim for philosophia
        perennis -- the perennial philosophy of life. He is a seeker of
        truth par excellence. He staked all that he had for the search. He
        traveled far and wide, almost the whole known world of those days,
        in search of the Masters, of the mystery schools, of any hidden
        secrets. From Greece he went to Egypt -- in search of the lost
        Atlantis and its secrets.
      • Bodhi Sarango
        Mike, I doubt that the Library of Alexandria in Egypt appears to have a date from around 280 B.C. or so built by Pharoah Ptolemy Soters son It is a lie of
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 12, 2008
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          Mike,

          I doubt that "the Library of Alexandria in Egypt appears to have a date from around 280 B.C. or so built by Pharoah Ptolemy Soters son"

          It is a lie of "so called" Modern Science. For example... In some old Indian Scriptures are many remarks that the Library of Alexandria existed long before.

          Just ask yourself who may be interested in such a lie ? From were the roots of the lie comes ? few religions contributed in destroying the Library... Christianity and Mohammedans and even before the books were to dangerous for many other religions. The truth of Atlantis is a key to many other truths. And they know that even now. It is a big possibility that some of this books are in Vatican library...were only a Cardinal can enter..usually already conditioned with belief and not able to see truth. This is the key.

          And it is not strange that first civilizations of our times are Sumerians and Egypt...they were first to read this books...it was a very difficult for them to understands such level of technology and wisdom but in time they decoded some lost knowledge.

          This explains why they were able to build pyramids or know about Solar system and cosmos. And how Pythagoras live evolved.

          Sarango


          On Feb 13, 2008 2:33 AM, Mike Cassell <michaelcassellmba@...> wrote:

          Wait there appears to be an isue of dates that doesn't make sense. Pythagoras was born around 570 B.C. and the Library of Alexandria in Egypt appears to have a date from around 280 B.C. or so built by Pharoah Ptolemy Soters son, right... am I missing something?

          Bodhi Sarango <bodhi.sarango@...> wrote: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/OSHO_Science/



          Pythagoras represents the eternal Pilgrim for philosophia
          perennis -- the perennial philosophy of life. He is a seeker of
          truth par excellence. He staked all that he had for the search. He
          traveled far and wide, almost the whole known world of those days,
          in search of the Masters, of the mystery schools, of any hidden
          secrets. From Greece he went to Egypt -- in search of the lost
          Atlantis and its secrets.


        • Bodhi Sarango
          Hartmut, All direct facts with the books have been destroyed by religious fanatics in time. So of course it is difficult to prove. Still few links as secondary
          Message 4 of 4 , Feb 13, 2008
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            Hartmut,

            All direct facts with the books have been destroyed by religious fanatics in time. So of course it is difficult to prove.

            Still few links as secondary sources ( without a deep research - I am still looking,  I saw this sources last year on web - The  story was in Rig-vedas describing Harrapan city that dates to from 9 to 6,000 BC in India and the Ancient library.)

            1.  "Hebrew, Hindu, Nordic, and Islamic traditions share the belief of a vast library existing before the creation of the world. The Vedas say that this library predated the creator's creation of himself. Yet, almost as old as the idea of the library is the urge to destroy it. The reasons cited for this are many: educated people are much harder to govern..." from Books on Fire by Lucien X. Polastron  .

            2. Carl Sagan describing the library at Alexandra and what a loss it was.. it probably was the greatest loss of knowledge and history... he said for example there was one set of 20 volumes of the 'History of the World' there.. and that covered the period ENDING over two thousand years ago!

            3. Plato put the age of Atlantis' destruction at c9,000 years before his time.

            From latest discoveries this is at the end of the last Major Ice Age.There were  a number of more sudden rises. Meltwater Pulse 1A which occurred around 12-10,000 years ago saw global sea levels rise around 20m.
            The last big rise, which probably did occur in the space of days or weeks, was caused by the final outpouring of Lake Agassiz c8,200 years ago. Latest estimates put the global sea level rise from this single catastrophic event - probably the largest flood of the ice age era.

            4. There is a great possibility that last Ice Age had not only natural causes. Few Russian scientists for example made a research in Antarctic Area checking Ice (science can read now Ice patterns up to 900,000 years ago) and they made last year an statement that they are almost sure that between 10-15,000 years ago it was something similar to Nuclear war on this planet with great catastrophic consequences. But immediately Russian Science (security) agency very fast denied the facts and all went into "mystery" again.

            5. " There is a history and origin to how the modern deck of cards came to be created. A few hundred years ago, magic was viewed as a heresy and people were even put to death. Two thousand years ago, all the ancient mysteries, sacred knowledge, mystical teachings were kept in one place, the Great Library of Alexandria. Religious fanatics kept on raiding the library, burning all the books and the magicians. Something had to be done, so the magicians formed a mystical alliance of secret knowledge to protect the ancient knowledge, and gathered in the city of Fez, Morocco, and they agreed to create one magic book, one book to contain all the secrets of magic....Thus, the tarot cards were born." from The True Secrets In a Deck of Cards

            5. And already  known controversy between Egyptologists: the real age of Sphinx and even Pyramids.
            Just an example : "Was the Sphinx built over 10,000 years ago?.... West knew that most Egyptologists believed that the Sphinx was built in 2500 BCE in the time of the pharaoh Chephren (of Khafre), who is identified with the Second Pyramid at Giza...."
            ".... The vertical weathering patterns on the Sphinx and its enclosure, Schoch argued, were not caused by wind effect, as had previously been thought, but by water -- water from torrential rains pouring down in sheets over these ancient structures. But how could this be? Was Schoch saying that such heavy rains only fell on the Sphinx area but nowhere else at Giza?....Could water have caused the vertical weathering on the Sphinx? Water from where?"

            "...the best fit for the Giza Pyramids/Nile pattern with the Orion's belt/Milky Way pattern occurred when the sky was pushed back in time (i.e., precessed) to the epoch of 10,500 BCE...." from  "The Language of Stone"  by Robert Bauval http://www.wovoca.com/controversies-the-sphinx-built-10000-years-ago.htm

            6. And a last "joke":
            " Pyramid in Bosnia :"Osmanagic says the pyramid is at least 2,500 years old and may even date to the last ice age, which ended about 10,000 years ago. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence," said Curtis Runnels, an archaeologist at Boston University in Massachusetts and a Balkan prehistory expert.
             http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/05/pyramid-bosnia-1.html

            I will come back on this subject,
            Sarango

            On Feb 13, 2008 11:12 AM, <hardy22de@...> wrote:

            Bodhi Sarango wrote:

            In some old Indian Scriptures are many remarks that the Library of Alexandria existed long before.





            Please give evidence for this claim. Which scriptures do you refer to? Are there any secondary sources in support of your statement?

            Best,
            Hartmut

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