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Summary and Synthesis of Pythagorean Doctrine

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  • Sawmi
    I just stumbled onto this. I haven t had a chance to really examine it, but just scrolling through it, it looks pretty good. Thought I d post it to the list
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 1, 2005
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      I just stumbled onto this.  I haven't had a chance to really examine it, but just scrolling through it, it looks pretty good.  Thought I'd post it to the list in case anybody is interested.  Also, if anyone feels competent to comment on it (or John Opsopaus, the author) I'd be interested.
       
       
       

      Being a Summary and Synthesis of Pythagorean Doctrine

      on Goddesses, Gods, The One, and Theurgy

      from the Master Himself until the Italian Renaissance
       

      Part I: Introduction

      Part II: Goddesses

      Part III: Gods

      Part IIII: The One

      Part V: Theurgy - Updated!

      Principal Sources

      Note: This is a work in progress (in particular, Part IIII will be expanded). I would be most appreciative of any comments, positive or negative, from small issues of expression to major issues of content. Please send email to Opsopaus@....

    • James McKinnon
      Sawmi, Yeah, it s great. He s done a huge amount of work. I have a link on my website to his site. You might also like his Pythagorean Tarot. It s published
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 3, 2005
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        Sawmi,

        Yeah, it's great. He's done a huge amount of work. I
        have a link on my website to his site.
        You might also like his Pythagorean Tarot. It's
        published by Lewellyn. The deck comes with a book that
        is one of the best books on divination I've ever
        found.

        Salus,
        James

        --- Sawmi <sawmi@...> wrote:

        > I just stumbled onto this. I haven't had a chance
        > to really examine it, but just scrolling through it,
        > it looks pretty good. Thought I'd post it to the
        > list in case anybody is interested. Also, if anyone
        > feels competent to comment on it (or John Opsopaus,
        > the author) I'd be interested.
        >
        >
        > http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/ETP/index.html
        >
        >
        > Being a Summary and Synthesis of Pythagorean
        > Doctrine
        >
        > on Goddesses, Gods, The One, and Theurgy
        >
        > from the Master Himself until the Italian
        > Renaissance
        > Part I: Introduction
        > Part II: Goddesses
        > Part III: Gods
        > Part IIII: The One
        > Part V: Theurgy
        > Principal Sources
        > Note: This is a work in progress (in particular,
        > Part IIII will be expanded). I would be most
        > appreciative of any comments, positive or negative,
        > from small issues of expression to major issues of
        > content. Please send email to Opsopaus@....
        >




        __________________________________
        Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
        http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
      • Michael Angelicus
        Brothers, My question here is...if this is to be a truly Pythagorean Tarot...why are the Major Arcana predicated upon the Hebrew Alphabet... that is the
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 3, 2005
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          Brothers,
           
          My question here is...if this is to be a truly Pythagorean Tarot...why are the
          Major Arcana predicated upon the Hebrew Alphabet...  that is the number of
          cards equaling the number of letters in the Hebrew Alphabet or 22 ?
           
          And as any jerk knows, they associate a Hebrew Letter to each of the Atu.  I've seen
          associations to Greek [in Tarot books], but the fact is they fall short by 5 as in Phi-ve... as in Pentagon/ 5-gon with Phi... letters of the Greek.
           
          It would seem to me that were anyone to engage in any form of Pythagorean synchronicity and symmetry, you'd have 27 Major Arcana which corresponds to the
          Greek because the Pythagoreans were not Jews, they were Greeks as we all know or should know by now.
           
          Besides there's even a computer language L 27, and 27 is far more interesting  a number than 22 being cubic [cube of 3].
           
          After all what makes the Hebrew alphabet more Divine than  the Greek,  they both are derived from Phoenician.  I'm not saying you can't have a tarot for Kabalists with
          22 letters, but why does their concept of the Divine have to dictate to you what is Divine.... impacting and impairing your own tradition.  As far as I'm concerned Kabalists are merely medieval 'johnny-come-latelies'  whereas Pythagoreans started the ball rolling with respect to the Gematria and Math in general.
           
          So while you guys applaud this lame attempt at a Pythagorean tarot, I see failure at its fundamental structure which detracts from its credibility.
           
          Case closed !
           
          Frater 'M' Angelicus, Rose [+] Cross
           


          James McKinnon <metatron121@...> wrote:
          Sawmi,

          Yeah, it's great.  He's done a huge amount of work.  I
          have a link on my website to his site. 
          You might also like his Pythagorean Tarot.  It's
          published by Lewellyn. The deck comes with a book that
          is one of the best books on divination I've ever
          found. 

          Salus,
          James

          --- Sawmi <sawmi@...> wrote:

          > I just stumbled onto this.  I haven't had a chance
          > to really examine it, but just scrolling through it,
          > it looks pretty good.  Thought I'd post it to the
          > list in case anybody is interested.  Also, if anyone
          > feels competent to comment on it (or John Opsopaus,
          > the author) I'd be interested.
          >
          >
          > http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/ETP/index.html
          >
          >
          > Being a Summary and Synthesis of Pythagorean
          > Doctrine
          >
          > on Goddesses, Gods, The One, and Theurgy
          >
          > from the Master Himself until the Italian
          > Renaissance  
          > Part I: Introduction
          > Part II: Goddesses
          > Part III: Gods
          > Part IIII: The One
          > Part V: Theurgy
          > Principal Sources
          > Note: This is a work in progress (in particular,
          > Part IIII will be expanded). I would be most
          > appreciative of any comments, positive or negative,
          > from small issues of expression to major issues of
          > content. Please send email to Opsopaus@....
          >



                     
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          http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


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        • br_ma_rose
          Good points...but, I m not sure John Opsopaus predicated his Tarot on Hebrew letters. When you say this, you are agreeing that there are 22 Major Arcana
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 10, 2005
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            Good points...but, I'm not sure John Opsopaus "predicated" his Tarot
            on Hebrew letters. When you say this, you are agreeing that there
            are 22 Major Arcana BECAUSE there are 22 Hebrew consonants...that
            relationship, coming out of the Eliphas Levi school, just might not
            be a true relationship.

            Instead, the 22 can be arranged simply as 3 groups of 7, plus one
            wild card.
            Thus, the Classical virtues can be seen operating on three "planes"
            (for example, 1-7 are all functions occurring on the mundane plane,
            they depict the virtues as they occur in various "offices" of human
            government). Nothing about the Hebrew alphabet need be seen or
            pulled into any of that. So, in my opinion, all the Hebrew
            associations enter the picture MUCH later, and take a back seat to
            the 3 and 7 relationships, and the fundamental use of Virtues.

            Actually, there are many orthodox Jewish Kabbalists who absolutely
            REJECT the occultist associations coined by Levi and his
            successors.

            Aside from all the technical issues, you just might like Opsopaus'
            Tarot as a "visionary" work...the art is great, inspiring,
            and "calculated". I got my set still shrink wrapped at a second
            hand bookstore for something like $15...no complaints here!






            --- In Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com, Michael Angelicus
            <astralogos999@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Brothers,
            >
            > My question here is...if this is to be a truly Pythagorean
            Tarot...why are the
            > Major Arcana predicated upon the Hebrew Alphabet... that is the
            number of
            > cards equaling the number of letters in the Hebrew Alphabet or
            22 ?
            >
            > And as any jerk knows, they associate a Hebrew Letter to each of
            the Atu. I've seen
            > associations to Greek [in Tarot books], but the fact is they
            fall short by 5 as in Phi-ve... as in Pentagon/ 5-gon with Phi...
            letters of the Greek.
            >
            > It would seem to me that were anyone to engage in any form of
            Pythagorean synchronicity and symmetry, you'd have 27 Major Arcana
            which corresponds to the
            > Greek because the Pythagoreans were not Jews, they were Greeks
            as we all know or should know by now.
            >
            > Besides there's even a computer language L 27, and 27 is far
            more interesting a number than 22 being cubic [cube of 3].
            >
            > After all what makes the Hebrew alphabet more Divine than the
            Greek, they both are derived from Phoenician. I'm not saying you
            can't have a tarot for Kabalists with
            > 22 letters, but why does their concept of the Divine have to
            dictate to you what is Divine.... impacting and impairing your own
            tradition. As far as I'm concerned Kabalists are merely
            medieval 'johnny-come-latelies' whereas Pythagoreans started the
            ball rolling with respect to the Gematria and Math in general.
            >
            > So while you guys applaud this lame attempt at a Pythagorean
            tarot, I see failure at its fundamental structure which detracts
            from its credibility.
            >
            > Case closed !
            >
            > Frater 'M' Angelicus, Rose [+] Cross
            >
            >
            >
            > James McKinnon <metatron121@y...> wrote:
            > Sawmi,
            >
            > Yeah, it's great. He's done a huge amount of work. I
            > have a link on my website to his site.
            > You might also like his Pythagorean Tarot. It's
            > published by Lewellyn. The deck comes with a book that
            > is one of the best books on divination I've ever
            > found.
            >
            > Salus,
            > James
            >
            > --- Sawmi <sawmi@s...> wrote:
            >
            > > I just stumbled onto this. I haven't had a chance
            > > to really examine it, but just scrolling through it,
            > > it looks pretty good. Thought I'd post it to the
            > > list in case anybody is interested. Also, if anyone
            > > feels competent to comment on it (or John Opsopaus,
            > > the author) I'd be interested.
            > >
            > >
            > > http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/ETP/index.html
            > >
            > >
            > > Being a Summary and Synthesis of Pythagorean
            > > Doctrine
            > >
            > > on Goddesses, Gods, The One, and Theurgy
            > >
            > > from the Master Himself until the Italian
            > > Renaissance
            > > Part I: Introduction
            > > Part II: Goddesses
            > > Part III: Gods
            > > Part IIII: The One
            > > Part V: Theurgy
            > > Principal Sources
            > > Note: This is a work in progress (in particular,
            > > Part IIII will be expanded). I would be most
            > > appreciative of any comments, positive or negative,
            > > from small issues of expression to major issues of
            > > content. Please send email to Opsopaus@o...
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________
            > Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
            > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
            >
            >
            > But before all, thy soul to its faithful duty,Invoke these Gods
            with fervour, that whose aid,Thy work begun, alone can terminate.
            Instructed by them,naught shall then deceive thee: Of diverse beings
            thou shalt sound the essence; And thou shalt know the principle and
            end of All.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > SPONSORED LINKS
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          • Michael Angelicus
            J.O. accepted without question [He didn t do his DD (due diligence) on the number of Major Arcana being 22 ]. All Tarot experts know where that number comes
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 11, 2005
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              J.O. accepted without question [He didn't do his DD (due diligence) on  the number of Major Arcana  being '22']. 
               
              All Tarot experts know where that number comes from except you.   You're not going to obfuscate the issue.  If you don't know where it comes from, read the 'Encyclopedia of the Tarot' by Stuart Kaplan.
               
              Sure ! Why not have 2 groups of 11 and call each parallel like....the pillar of  Joachin and Boaz...how's that .. and drop Levi's triangular spread of 7-7-7 with the 22nd card being a Circle .   That's where it goes.  How's that ?
               
              So the Kabbalists reject Levi.  Who cares ?   Does that make it 'Kosher' for Pythagoreans to accept the 777 triangle?  '777' means 'Stauros' or Cross in the
              Greek Gematria, and we all know [in case you don't] that the Greek Gematria
              preceeded the Hebrew by between 500 and 600 years. 
               
              Why not develop a Tarot that has no connection to the Hebrew number of consonants?  It's supposed to be Pythagorean after all not Hebrew .  At least make an attempt to develop one.
               
              If you like using a triangle for the Major Arcana, use a higher Gematric value....
              say 9-9-9 which means 'Epistemon' [Higher Knowledge - Wisdom].
               
              Guess what 9 + 9 + 9 = 27 the number of letters in the Greek Alphabet. '27' conforms
              to the harmonic used in Pythagoreanism...not '22'.  "The Pythagoreans have made it
              the tone of all their harmonic intervals".
               
              I don't buy your lame attempt to justify the use of the number '22' at all. You're just
              aiding those who want to insert Kabbalism under the Pythagorean name.  Remember
              the Pythagoreans came first, and they didn't speak Hebrew in Crotona in those
              days in case you ever wondered. 
               
              So they had absolutely no use for the Hebrew Aleph-Beth .  They had every
              use for the Greek Alpha-Bet.  To be true to form and call a tarot Pythagorean, you have to use the Pythagorean [Greek] alphabet for the Major Arcana or else don't call
              your Tarot Pythagorean at all.
               
              Frater 'M', Bretheren of the Rose [ + ] Cross
               
               
               


              br_ma_rose <br_ma_rose@...> wrote:
              Good points...but, I'm not sure John Opsopaus "predicated" his Tarot
              on Hebrew letters.  When you say this, you are agreeing that there
              are 22 Major Arcana BECAUSE there are 22 Hebrew consonants...that
              relationship, coming out of the Eliphas Levi school, just might not
              be a true relationship.

              Instead, the 22 can be arranged simply as 3 groups of 7, plus one
              wild card.
              Thus, the Classical virtues can be seen operating on three "planes"
              (for example, 1-7 are all functions occurring on the mundane plane,
              they depict the virtues as they occur in various "offices" of human
              government).  Nothing about the Hebrew alphabet need be seen or
              pulled into any of that.  So, in my opinion, all the Hebrew
              associations enter the picture MUCH later, and take a back seat to
              the 3 and 7 relationships, and the fundamental use of Virtues. 

              Actually, there are many orthodox Jewish Kabbalists who absolutely
              REJECT the occultist associations coined by Levi and his
              successors. 

              Aside from all the technical issues, you just might like Opsopaus'
              Tarot as a "visionary" work...the art is great, inspiring,
              and "calculated".  I got my set still shrink wrapped at a second
              hand bookstore for something like $15...no complaints here!






              --- In Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com, Michael Angelicus
              <astralogos999@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Brothers,
              >   
              >   My question here is...if this is to be a truly Pythagorean
              Tarot...why are the
              >   Major Arcana predicated upon the Hebrew Alphabet...  that is the
              number of
              >   cards equaling the number of letters in the Hebrew Alphabet or
              22 ?
              >   
              >   And as any jerk knows, they associate a Hebrew Letter to each of
              the Atu.  I've seen
              >   associations to Greek [in Tarot books], but the fact is they
              fall short by 5 as in Phi-ve... as in Pentagon/ 5-gon with Phi...
              letters of the Greek.
              >   
              >   It would seem to me that were anyone to engage in any form of
              Pythagorean synchronicity and symmetry, you'd have 27 Major Arcana
              which corresponds to the
              >   Greek because the Pythagoreans were not Jews, they were Greeks
              as we all know or should know by now.
              >   
              >   Besides there's even a computer language L 27, and 27 is far
              more interesting  a number than 22 being cubic [cube of 3].
              >   
              >   After all what makes the Hebrew alphabet more Divine than  the
              Greek,  they both are derived from Phoenician.  I'm not saying you
              can't have a tarot for Kabalists with
              >   22 letters, but why does their concept of the Divine have to
              dictate to you what is Divine.... impacting and impairing your own
              tradition.  As far as I'm concerned Kabalists are merely
              medieval 'johnny-come-latelies'  whereas Pythagoreans started the
              ball rolling with respect to the Gematria and Math in general.
              >   
              >   So while you guys applaud this lame attempt at a Pythagorean
              tarot, I see failure at its fundamental structure which detracts
              from its credibility.
              >   
              >   Case closed !
              >   
              >   Frater 'M' Angelicus, Rose [+] Cross
              >   
              >  
              >
              > James McKinnon <metatron121@y...> wrote:
              >   Sawmi,
              >
              > Yeah, it's great.  He's done a huge amount of work.  I
              > have a link on my website to his site. 
              > You might also like his Pythagorean Tarot.  It's
              > published by Lewellyn. The deck comes with a book that
              > is one of the best books on divination I've ever
              > found. 
              >
              > Salus,
              > James
              >
              > --- Sawmi <sawmi@s...> wrote:
              >
              > > I just stumbled onto this.  I haven't had a chance
              > > to really examine it, but just scrolling through it,
              > > it looks pretty good.  Thought I'd post it to the
              > > list in case anybody is interested.  Also, if anyone
              > > feels competent to comment on it (or John Opsopaus,
              > > the author) I'd be interested.
              > >
              > >
              > > http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/ETP/index.html
              > >
              > >
              > > Being a Summary and Synthesis of Pythagorean
              > > Doctrine
              > >
              > > on Goddesses, Gods, The One, and Theurgy
              > >
              > > from the Master Himself until the Italian
              > > Renaissance  
              > > Part I: Introduction
              > > Part II: Goddesses
              > > Part III: Gods
              > > Part IIII: The One
              > > Part V: Theurgy
              > > Principal Sources
              > > Note: This is a work in progress (in particular,
              > > Part IIII will be expanded). I would be most
              > > appreciative of any comments, positive or negative,
              > > from small issues of expression to major issues of
              > > content. Please send email to Opsopaus@o...
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >            
              > __________________________________
              > Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
              > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
              >
              >
              > But before all, thy soul to its faithful duty,Invoke these Gods
              with fervour, that whose aid,Thy work begun, alone can terminate. 
              Instructed by them,naught shall then deceive thee: Of diverse beings
              thou shalt sound the essence; And thou shalt know the principle and
              end of All.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >   SPONSORED LINKS
              >         Apollonius of tyana   Beyond belief   Self actualization
              >    
              > ---------------------------------
              >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              >    
              >     Visit your group "Pythagorean-L" on the web.
              >    
              >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >  Pythagorean-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >    
              >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              >
              >    
              > ---------------------------------
              >  
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >            
              > ---------------------------------
              >  Yahoo! Personals
              >  Skip the bars and set-ups and start using Yahoo! Personals for
              free
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              >








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            • astralogos999
              I m not saying JO did. Now these Kabbalists you cite state that there s no association...to me they are either disingenuous or fools which is a card they might
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 12, 2005
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                I'm not saying JO did.

                Now these Kabbalists you cite state that there's no association...to
                me they are either disingenuous or fools which is a card they
                might play.

                The Jews always loved their Bible and commentaries [Talmud, Mishna
                etc.] the 'word' produced by the 'alephbeth' was very dear and
                magickal to them. It was their bridge to Jehovah and still is.

                You won't find much about the History behind the Tarot dealing with
                the Jews because they had to operate secretly being classified
                secondary citizens and even enemies of the state in some Courts in
                Europe during the middle ages. Besides there is scant information
                on the making of the Tarots.

                To say the association of the Major Arcana and the Jewish [alphabet
                or rather alephbeth] began with Levi is preposterous . It's like
                saying that Columbus was the first to discover America. He just the
                first to get credit for it.

                The Jews, having no state power, could hide the 'magickal' power of
                their 'alephbeth' in the Tarot. Originally the cards were used for
                gambling, and the Jews were well noted for their financial dealings
                since some money practices were considered a sin for Christians to
                engage in. Since writings on the Tarot were as sparce as they
                were, Kabbalistic influence would appear to be even more sparce being
                that Jews weren't hightly guarded.

                Here's an excerpt for your Kabbalistic friends from the Encyclopedia
                of the Tarot:

                "The twenty-two paths connecting the ten sephiroth in the Tree of
                Life of the Kabbalah are often associated with the twenty-two Major
                Arcana cards......Thus the twenty-two ways of secret wisdom of the
                Kabbalah are divided into two groups: the 'fundamental ten' and the
                twenty-two paths. The twenty-two true paths, which connect the ten
                sephiroth, allegedly coincide with twenty-two Major Arcana of the
                tarot path."

                I like the word 'allegedly'. Kaplan, who's a Jew, is not going to
                venture an absolute position on the matter. But here's my take. The
                Kabbalists are associated with the 'Tree of Life'. A 'tree' looks
                like a 'triangle' on top.

                Taking the summation of the hours on the clock, you get the 12th
                Triangular number...78. Before you get to the 12th, you have to go
                through the 4th [Triangular] or 'l0' which is significant to
                Kabbalists as the 'fundamental Sephiroth' and Pythagoreans in the
                form of the Tetracycts...a number the Kabbalists freely
                appropriated.

                So Kabbalists are drawing their Sephiroth from the Tetracycts which
                becomes magickaly transmuted into IHVH....the Tetragrammaton.

                Now let's for argument's sake say that everything this Good Frater,
                namely yours truly, is telling you is a whole bunch of crap... that I
                have conjured this all up, then still why don't the Major Arcana have
                a Pythagorean flavor to it......using the harmonic of '27' because
                that's what the Pythagoreans played their 'musickal strings' off of ?
                They didn't play them off 'Odes to Jehovah' ?

                Frater 'M', Bretheren of the Rose [ + ] Cross



                --- In Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com, "br_ma_rose" <br_ma_rose@y...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Good points...but, I'm not sure John Opsopaus "predicated" his
                Tarot
                > on Hebrew letters. When you say this, you are agreeing that there
                > are 22 Major Arcana BECAUSE there are 22 Hebrew consonants...that
                > relationship, coming out of the Eliphas Levi school, just might not
                > be a true relationship.
                >
                > Instead, the 22 can be arranged simply as 3 groups of 7, plus one
                > wild card.
                > Thus, the Classical virtues can be seen operating on three "planes"
                > (for example, 1-7 are all functions occurring on the mundane plane,
                > they depict the virtues as they occur in various "offices" of human
                > government). Nothing about the Hebrew alphabet need be seen or
                > pulled into any of that. So, in my opinion, all the Hebrew
                > associations enter the picture MUCH later, and take a back seat to
                > the 3 and 7 relationships, and the fundamental use of Virtues.
                >
                > Actually, there are many orthodox Jewish Kabbalists who absolutely
                > REJECT the occultist associations coined by Levi and his
                > successors.
                >
                > Aside from all the technical issues, you just might like Opsopaus'
                > Tarot as a "visionary" work...the art is great, inspiring,
                > and "calculated". I got my set still shrink wrapped at a second
                > hand bookstore for something like $15...no complaints here!
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com, Michael Angelicus
                > <astralogos999@y...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Brothers,
                > >
                > > My question here is...if this is to be a truly Pythagorean
                > Tarot...why are the
                > > Major Arcana predicated upon the Hebrew Alphabet... that is
                the
                > number of
                > > cards equaling the number of letters in the Hebrew Alphabet or
                > 22 ?
                > >
                > > And as any jerk knows, they associate a Hebrew Letter to each
                of
                > the Atu. I've seen
                > > associations to Greek [in Tarot books], but the fact is they
                > fall short by 5 as in Phi-ve... as in Pentagon/ 5-gon with Phi...
                > letters of the Greek.
                > >
                > > It would seem to me that were anyone to engage in any form of
                > Pythagorean synchronicity and symmetry, you'd have 27 Major Arcana
                > which corresponds to the
                > > Greek because the Pythagoreans were not Jews, they were Greeks
                > as we all know or should know by now.
                > >
                > > Besides there's even a computer language L 27, and 27 is far
                > more interesting a number than 22 being cubic [cube of 3].
                > >
                > > After all what makes the Hebrew alphabet more Divine than the
                > Greek, they both are derived from Phoenician. I'm not saying you
                > can't have a tarot for Kabalists with
                > > 22 letters, but why does their concept of the Divine have to
                > dictate to you what is Divine.... impacting and impairing your own
                > tradition. As far as I'm concerned Kabalists are merely
                > medieval 'johnny-come-latelies' whereas Pythagoreans started the
                > ball rolling with respect to the Gematria and Math in general.
                > >
                > > So while you guys applaud this lame attempt at a Pythagorean
                > tarot, I see failure at its fundamental structure which detracts
                > from its credibility.
                > >
                > > Case closed !
                > >
                > > Frater 'M' Angelicus, Rose [+] Cross
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > James McKinnon <metatron121@y...> wrote:
                > > Sawmi,
                > >
                > > Yeah, it's great. He's done a huge amount of work. I
                > > have a link on my website to his site.
                > > You might also like his Pythagorean Tarot. It's
                > > published by Lewellyn. The deck comes with a book that
                > > is one of the best books on divination I've ever
                > > found.
                > >
                > > Salus,
                > > James
                > >
                > > --- Sawmi <sawmi@s...> wrote:
                > >
                > > > I just stumbled onto this. I haven't had a chance
                > > > to really examine it, but just scrolling through it,
                > > > it looks pretty good. Thought I'd post it to the
                > > > list in case anybody is interested. Also, if anyone
                > > > feels competent to comment on it (or John Opsopaus,
                > > > the author) I'd be interested.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/ETP/index.html
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Being a Summary and Synthesis of Pythagorean
                > > > Doctrine
                > > >
                > > > on Goddesses, Gods, The One, and Theurgy
                > > >
                > > > from the Master Himself until the Italian
                > > > Renaissance
                > > > Part I: Introduction
                > > > Part II: Goddesses
                > > > Part III: Gods
                > > > Part IIII: The One
                > > > Part V: Theurgy
                > > > Principal Sources
                > > > Note: This is a work in progress (in particular,
                > > > Part IIII will be expanded). I would be most
                > > > appreciative of any comments, positive or negative,
                > > > from small issues of expression to major issues of
                > > > content. Please send email to Opsopaus@o...
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > __________________________________
                > > Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
                > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                > >
                > >
                > > But before all, thy soul to its faithful duty,Invoke these Gods
                > with fervour, that whose aid,Thy work begun, alone can terminate.
                > Instructed by them,naught shall then deceive thee: Of diverse
                beings
                > thou shalt sound the essence; And thou shalt know the principle and
                > end of All.
                > >
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                > >
                > >
                > > SPONSORED LINKS
                > > Apollonius of tyana Beyond belief Self actualization
                > >
                > > ---------------------------------
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                > >
                > > Visit your group "Pythagorean-L" on the web.
                > >
                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > Pythagorean-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                > Service.
                > >
                > >
                > > ---------------------------------
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                > >
                > > ---------------------------------
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                > >
                >
              • James McKinnon
                Frankly, it s one of the best Tarot decks and books I ve ever seen. I think since the Tarot has never been purely a Pythagorean system and has been interwoven
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 12, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Frankly, it's one of the best Tarot decks and books
                  I've ever seen.

                  I think since the Tarot has never been purely a
                  Pythagorean system and has been interwoven with the
                  hebrew system, it probably wouldn't be appropriate for
                  John to have extricated it from that hebrew system
                  completely. It might have undermined its being a
                  Tarot deck.

                  I suppose if John had wanted to create a completely
                  Pythagorean system of divination he wouldn't have used
                  the Tarot in the first place.
                  It, however, is obvious that both Tarot and Kabbalah
                  had been heavily influenced by Pythagorean thought. I
                  think it's appropriate to place a Pythagorean stamp on
                  that particular divination system. I think he was
                  right to do it, for the sake of making a very good
                  Tarot deck with literature that has a very nice
                  discussion of Pythagorean divination.

                  Since Tarot seems to have had a variety of influences,
                  I don't see a need for John to be a Pythagorean purist
                  with regard to a Pythagorean Tarot.

                  Salus,
                  James




                  --- Michael Angelicus <astralogos999@...> wrote:

                  > J.O. accepted without question [He didn't do his DD
                  > (due diligence) on the number of Major Arcana
                  > being '22'].
                  >
                  > All Tarot experts know where that number comes
                  > from except you. You're not going to obfuscate the
                  > issue. If you don't know where it comes from, read
                  > the 'Encyclopedia of the Tarot' by Stuart Kaplan.
                  >
                  > Sure ! Why not have 2 groups of 11 and call each
                  > parallel like....the pillar of Joachin and
                  > Boaz...how's that .. and drop Levi's triangular
                  > spread of 7-7-7 with the 22nd card being a Circle .
                  > That's where it goes. How's that ?
                  >
                  > So the Kabbalists reject Levi. Who cares ? Does
                  > that make it 'Kosher' for Pythagoreans to accept the
                  > 777 triangle? '777' means 'Stauros' or Cross in the
                  > Greek Gematria, and we all know [in case you
                  > don't] that the Greek Gematria
                  > preceeded the Hebrew by between 500 and 600 years.
                  >
                  >
                  > Why not develop a Tarot that has no connection to
                  > the Hebrew number of consonants? It's supposed to
                  > be Pythagorean after all not Hebrew . At least make
                  > an attempt to develop one.
                  >
                  > If you like using a triangle for the Major Arcana,
                  > use a higher Gematric value....
                  > say 9-9-9 which means 'Epistemon' [Higher
                  > Knowledge - Wisdom].
                  >
                  > Guess what 9 + 9 + 9 = 27 the number of letters in
                  > the Greek Alphabet. '27' conforms
                  > to the harmonic used in Pythagoreanism...not '22'.
                  > "The Pythagoreans have made it
                  > the tone of all their harmonic intervals".
                  >
                  > I don't buy your lame attempt to justify the use
                  > of the number '22' at all. You're just
                  > aiding those who want to insert Kabbalism under
                  > the Pythagorean name. Remember
                  > the Pythagoreans came first, and they didn't speak
                  > Hebrew in Crotona in those
                  > days in case you ever wondered.
                  >
                  > So they had absolutely no use for the Hebrew
                  > Aleph-Beth . They had every
                  > use for the Greek Alpha-Bet. To be true to form
                  > and call a tarot Pythagorean, you have to use the
                  > Pythagorean [Greek] alphabet for the Major Arcana or
                  > else don't call
                  > your Tarot Pythagorean at all.
                  >
                  > Frater 'M', Bretheren of the Rose [ + ] Cross
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > br_ma_rose <br_ma_rose@...> wrote:
                  > Good points...but, I'm not sure John Opsopaus
                  > "predicated" his Tarot
                  > on Hebrew letters. When you say this, you are
                  > agreeing that there
                  > are 22 Major Arcana BECAUSE there are 22 Hebrew
                  > consonants...that
                  > relationship, coming out of the Eliphas Levi school,
                  > just might not
                  > be a true relationship.
                  >
                  > Instead, the 22 can be arranged simply as 3 groups
                  > of 7, plus one
                  > wild card.
                  > Thus, the Classical virtues can be seen operating on
                  > three "planes"
                  > (for example, 1-7 are all functions occurring on the
                  > mundane plane,
                  > they depict the virtues as they occur in various
                  > "offices" of human
                  > government). Nothing about the Hebrew alphabet need
                  > be seen or
                  > pulled into any of that. So, in my opinion, all the
                  > Hebrew
                  > associations enter the picture MUCH later, and take
                  > a back seat to
                  > the 3 and 7 relationships, and the fundamental use
                  > of Virtues.
                  >
                  > Actually, there are many orthodox Jewish Kabbalists
                  > who absolutely
                  > REJECT the occultist associations coined by Levi and
                  > his
                  > successors.
                  >
                  > Aside from all the technical issues, you just might
                  > like Opsopaus'
                  > Tarot as a "visionary" work...the art is great,
                  > inspiring,
                  > and "calculated". I got my set still shrink wrapped
                  > at a second
                  > hand bookstore for something like $15...no
                  > complaints here!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com, Michael
                  > Angelicus
                  > <astralogos999@y...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Brothers,
                  > >
                  > > My question here is...if this is to be a truly
                  > Pythagorean
                  > Tarot...why are the
                  > > Major Arcana predicated upon the Hebrew
                  > Alphabet... that is the
                  > number of
                  > > cards equaling the number of letters in the
                  > Hebrew Alphabet or
                  > 22 ?
                  > >
                  > > And as any jerk knows, they associate a Hebrew
                  > Letter to each of
                  > the Atu. I've seen
                  > > associations to Greek [in Tarot books], but the
                  > fact is they
                  > fall short by 5 as in Phi-ve... as in Pentagon/
                  > 5-gon with Phi...
                  > letters of the Greek.
                  > >
                  > > It would seem to me that were anyone to engage
                  > in any form of
                  > Pythagorean synchronicity and symmetry, you'd have
                  > 27 Major Arcana
                  > which corresponds to the
                  > > Greek because the Pythagoreans were not Jews,
                  > they were Greeks
                  > as we all know or should know by now.
                  > >
                  > > Besides there's even a computer language L 27,
                  > and 27 is far
                  > more interesting a number than 22 being cubic [cube
                  > of 3].
                  > >
                  > > After all what makes the Hebrew alphabet more
                  > Divine than the
                  > Greek, they both are derived from Phoenician. I'm
                  > not saying you
                  > can't have a tarot for Kabalists with
                  > > 22 letters, but why does their concept of the
                  > Divine have to
                  > dictate to you what is Divine.... impacting and
                  > impairing your own
                  > tradition. As far as I'm concerned Kabalists are
                  > merely
                  > medieval 'johnny-come-latelies' whereas
                  > Pythagoreans started the
                  > ball rolling with respect to the Gematria and Math
                  > in general.
                  > >
                  > > So while you guys applaud this lame attempt at a
                  > Pythagorean
                  > tarot, I see failure at its fundamental structure
                  > which detracts
                  > from its credibility.
                  > >
                  > > Case closed !
                  > >
                  > > Frater 'M' Angelicus, Rose [+] Cross
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > James McKinnon <metatron121@y...> wrote:
                  > > Sawmi,
                  > >
                  > > Yeah, it's great. He's done a huge amount of
                  > work. I
                  > > have a link on my website to his site.
                  > > You might also like his Pythagorean Tarot. It's
                  > > published by Lewellyn. The deck comes with a book
                  > that
                  > > is one of the best books on divination I've ever
                  > > found.
                  > >
                  > > Salus,
                  > > James
                  > >
                  > > --- Sawmi <sawmi@s...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > I just stumbled onto this. I haven't had a
                  > chance
                  > > > to really examine it, but just scrolling through
                  > it,
                  > > > it looks pretty good. Thought I'd post it to
                  > the
                  > > > list in case anybody is interested. Also, if
                  > anyone
                  >
                  === message truncated ===


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                • br_ma_rose
                  you
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 13, 2005
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                    you <<Now these Kabbalists you cite state that there's no
                    association...to me they are either disingenuous or fools which is a
                    card they might play.>>

                    Maybe they are "disingenous"...but Gershom Scholem, is one of the
                    most respected academics who have written about Kabbalah from a
                    scholarly point of view.


                    You <<Originally the cards were used for gambling, and the Jews were
                    well noted for their financial dealings since some money practices
                    were considered a sin for Christians to engage in. >>

                    Well, since you are aware that the cards were used for gambling,
                    then you MUST also be aware that early Tarrochi DID NOT have a 22
                    Arcana structure...look at Visconti, Mantegna, and the Germanic
                    strains...22 came later, case closed.
                  • br_ma_rose
                    You
                    Message 9 of 12 , Dec 13, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      You <<All Tarot experts know where that number comes from except
                      you. You're not going to obfuscate the issue. >>

                      Beleive what you like friend...no need to get all precious about it.

                      You <<If you don't know where it comes from, read the 'Encyclopedia
                      of the Tarot' by Stuart Kaplan.>>

                      I have Kaplan's work, and consider it an "opinion", and shaped by
                      influences he had access to when he wrote. But, just becuase Kaplan
                      has bought a huge collection of decks doesn't mean he knows what he
                      is talking about.


                      You <<Sure ! Why not have 2 groups of 11 and call each parallel
                      like....the pillar of Joachin and Boaz...how's that ..>>

                      Why not? Well because the meanigfull relationships that exist in
                      the seven fold structure are concretely tied to Medieval thelogical
                      and philosophical ideas, again, to wit, the virtues, ladder of
                      planets, and social caste of the European Middle Ages.
                      Besides, I never said that "tarot IS Pythagorean"; rather, Tarot is
                      a product of neo-Platonism, Medieval Catholicism, and with some Sufi
                      influences coming via the Crusades.


                      You <<So the Kabbalists reject Levi. Who cares ? >>

                      Well, it would indicate at least that Levi's ideas are alien to
                      them, which in turn makes his interpretations suspect. Anyway, if
                      you drop the whole "Hebrew" alphabet thing, there is clearly MUCH
                      more Christian symbolism in the actual cards than there is Judaic.
                      The Sun, for instance, is unquestinonably related to the last
                      chapters of St. John the Evangelist.
                      Again, feel free to do with tarot what you will, as a Byzantine
                      Catholic, I have a grounding in neo-Platonism that is alive in our
                      tradition, and Tarot to us is not an "anathema" thing. So, in part,
                      I accept what I have received from my Church as truth about the
                      tarot, uninterrupted over many centuries.


                      You <<Why not develop a Tarot that has no connection to the Hebrew
                      number of consonants? It's supposed to be Pythagorean after all not
                      Hebrew . At least make an attempt to develop one.>>

                      Hey, if that is YOUR hang-up, why don't YOU develop it?
                      My Byzantine tradition has roots in European, Hellenic, and Judaic
                      teachings. We take as out Prophets both the "pagan" philosophers
                      and Hebrew authors of scripture...we have no interest in "expunging"
                      the Judaic elements, even when they persist...we are not anti-
                      semetic.
                      If I do however want a "pure" Hellenism, I know where to go.
                      Mr. "J.O.", created the deck he did, and I can't speak for for him.
                      If it isn't a "pure" Hellenism, don't bitch at me, and don't assume
                      he was represtnting an "pure" Hellenism either. Maybe you don't
                      know, but ancient Greece is dead...you have to look for where the
                      best of it survives in living traditions.
                    • br_ma_rose
                      James McKinnon wrote Indeed, it enters the ranks with some of the best! James
                      Message 10 of 12 , Dec 13, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        James McKinnon wrote <<Frankly, it's one of the best Tarot decks
                        and books I've ever seen. >>

                        Indeed, it enters the ranks with some of the best!


                        James <<I suppose if John had wanted to create a completely
                        Pythagorean system of divination he wouldn't have used the Tarot in
                        the first place. >>

                        You got it! Nobody ever calimed either tarot of J.O.'s work was
                        exclusively Pythagorean...why not just enjoy it for what it is, and
                        let those desirous of a "pure" Pythagorean tarot go ahead and
                        attempt to make what they want. No harm no foul.

                        James <<Since Tarot seems to have had a variety of influences, I
                        don't see a need for John to be a Pythagorean purist with regard to
                        a Pythagorean Tarot. >>


                        Well said. Pythagoreanism, or any Hellenic pagan currents DIED long
                        ago as "pure" systems, and only survived within the Euro-
                        Christianity that absorbed them...if you want praxis, beyond
                        the "texts", that is where you have to go. Made up stuff
                        like "AMORC", from the 50's hardly holds a candle to the butt of
                        Eastern Chrsitianity which never broke ties to the neo-Platonic
                        tradition.
                      • Michael Angelicus
                        I respect your opinion, Jim, and I m sure the deck has its commendable points. However for me it will never represent a true Pythagorean Tarot. It s an
                        Message 11 of 12 , Dec 13, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I respect your opinion, Jim, and I'm sure the deck has its commendable
                          points.

                          However for me it will never represent a true Pythagorean Tarot. It's an ecletic
                          deck, and I guess in some ways I am something of a purist.

                          I believe moving beyond the Hebrew system and influence frees it up to become something even more and doesn't diminish but enhances it.

                          Perhaps I've been a little too severe in my criticism of the the deck and should at least consider it a first step...towards launching a true Pythagorean tarot. That's the only way I can see it.

                          You can settle on it as it pleases you. I have to move on to something else !

                          Salus,
                          Mike


                          James McKinnon <metatron121@...> wrote:
                          Frankly, it's one of the best Tarot decks and books
                          I've ever seen.

                          I think since the Tarot has never been purely a
                          Pythagorean system and has been interwoven with the
                          hebrew system, it probably wouldn't be appropriate for
                          John to have extricated it from that hebrew system
                          completely. It might have undermined its being a
                          Tarot deck.

                          I suppose if John had wanted to create a completely
                          Pythagorean system of divination he wouldn't have used
                          the Tarot in the first place.
                          It, however, is obvious that both Tarot and Kabbalah
                          had been heavily influenced by Pythagorean thought. I
                          think it's appropriate to place a Pythagorean stamp on
                          that particular divination system. I think he was
                          right to do it, for the sake of making a very good
                          Tarot deck with literature that has a very nice
                          discussion of Pythagorean divination.

                          Since Tarot seems to have had a variety of influences,
                          I don't see a need for John to be a Pythagorean purist
                          with regard to a Pythagorean Tarot.

                          Salus,
                          James
                        • A.C.B.
                          Frater Angelicus: Your post indicates to me that you have a knowledge and understanding of the this mysterious and mystical topic. Question: In your
                          Message 12 of 12 , Dec 13, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Frater Angelicus:  Your post indicates to me that you have a knowledge and understanding of the  this  mysterious and mystical topic.

                            Question: In your opinion,  where does a novice go to get some basic knowledge  of the subject? Something like  Elements of...?

                            Thanks .

                            Michael Angelicus <astralogos999@...> wrote:
                            J.O. accepted without question [He didn't do his DD (due diligence) on  the number of Major Arcana  being '22']. 
                             
                            All Tarot experts know where that number comes from except you.   You're not going to obfuscate the issue.  If you don't know where it comes from, read the 'Encyclopedia of the Tarot' by Stuart Kaplan.
                             
                            Sure ! Why not have 2 groups of 11 and call each parallel like....the pillar of  Joachin and Boaz...how's that .. and drop Levi's triangular spread of 7-7-7 with the 22nd card being a Circle .   That's where it goes.  How's that ?
                             
                            So the Kabbalists reject Levi.  Who cares ?   Does that make it 'Kosher' for Pythagoreans to accept the 777 triangle?  '777' means 'Stauros' or Cross in the
                            Greek Gematria, and we all know [in case you don't] that the Greek Gematria
                            preceeded the Hebrew by between 500 and 600 years. 
                             
                            Why not develop a Tarot that has no connection to the Hebrew number of consonants?  It's supposed to be Pythagorean after all not Hebrew .  At least make an attempt to develop one.
                             
                            If you like using a triangle for the Major Arcana, use a higher Gematric value....
                            say 9-9-9 which means 'Epistemon' [Higher Knowledge - Wisdom].
                             
                            Guess what 9 + 9 + 9 = 27 the number of letters in the Greek Alphabet. '27' conforms
                            to the harmonic used in Pythagoreanism...not '22'.  "The Pythagoreans have made it
                            the tone of all their harmonic intervals".
                             
                            I don't buy your lame attempt to justify the use of the number '22' at all. You're just
                            aiding those who want to insert Kabbalism under the Pythagorean name.  Remember
                            the Pythagoreans came first, and they didn't speak Hebrew in Crotona in those
                            days in case you ever wondered. 
                             
                            So they had absolutely no use for the Hebrew Aleph-Beth .  They had every
                            use for the Greek Alpha-Bet.  To be true to form and call a tarot Pythagorean, you have to use the Pythagorean [Greek] alphabet for the Major Arcana or else don't call
                            your Tarot Pythagorean at all.
                             
                            Frater 'M', Bretheren of the Rose [ + ] Cross
                             
                             
                             


                            br_ma_rose <br_ma_rose@...> wrote:
                            Good points...but, I'm not sure John Opsopaus "predicated" his Tarot
                            on Hebrew letters.  When you say this, you are agreeing that there
                            are 22 Major Arcana BECAUSE there are 22 Hebrew consonants...that
                            relationship, coming out of the Eliphas Levi school, just might not
                            be a true relationship.

                            Instead, the 22 can be arranged simply as 3 groups of 7, plus one
                            wild card.
                            Thus, the Classical virtues can be seen operating on three "planes"
                            (for example, 1-7 are all functions occurring on the mundane plane,
                            they depict the virtues as they occur in various "offices" of human
                            government).  Nothing about the Hebrew alphabet need be seen or
                            pulled into any of that.  So, in my opinion, all the Hebrew
                            associations enter the picture MUCH later, and take a back seat to
                            the 3 and 7 relationships, and the fundamental use of Virtues. 

                            Actually, there are many orthodox Jewish Kabbalists who absolutely
                            REJECT the occultist associations coined by Levi and his
                            successors. 

                            Aside from all the technical issues, you just might like Opsopaus'
                            Tarot as a "visionary" work...the art is great, inspiring,
                            and "calculated".  I got my set still shrink wrapped at a second
                            hand bookstore for something like $15...no complaints here!






                            --- In Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com, Michael Angelicus
                            <astralogos999@y...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Brothers,
                            >   
                            >   My question here is...if this is to be a truly Pythagorean
                            Tarot...why are the
                            >   Major Arcana predicated upon the Hebrew Alphabet...  that is the
                            number of
                            >   cards equaling the number of letters in the Hebrew Alphabet or
                            22 ?
                            >   
                            >   And as any jerk knows, they associate a Hebrew Letter to each of
                            the Atu.  I've seen
                            >   associations to Greek [in Tarot books], but the fact is they
                            fall short by 5 as in Phi-ve... as in Pentagon/ 5-gon with Phi...
                            letters of the Greek.
                            >   
                            >   It would seem to me that were anyone to engage in any form of
                            Pythagorean synchronicity and symmetry, you'd have 27 Major Arcana
                            which corresponds to the
                            >   Greek because the Pythagoreans were not Jews, they were Greeks
                            as we all know or should know by now.
                            >   
                            >   Besides there's even a computer language L 27, and 27 is far
                            more interesting  a number than 22 being cubic [cube of 3].
                            >   
                            >   After all what makes the Hebrew alphabet more Divine than  the
                            Greek,  they both are derived from Phoenician.  I'm not saying you
                            can't have a tarot for Kabalists with
                            >   22 letters, but why does their concept of the Divine have to
                            dictate to you what is Divine.... impacting and impairing your own
                            tradition.  As far as I'm concerned Kabalists are merely
                            medieval 'johnny-come-latelies'  whereas Pythagoreans started the
                            ball rolling with respect to the Gematria and Math in general.
                            >   
                            >   So while you guys applaud this lame attempt at a Pythagorean
                            tarot, I see failure at its fundamental structure which detracts
                            from its credibility.
                            >   
                            >   Case closed !
                            >   
                            >   Frater 'M' Angelicus, Rose [+] Cross
                            >   
                            >  
                            >
                            > James McKinnon <metatron121@y...> wrote:
                            >   Sawmi,
                            >
                            > Yeah, it's great.  He's done a huge amount of work.  I
                            > have a link on my website to his site. 
                            > You might also like his Pythagorean Tarot.  It's
                            > published by Lewellyn. The deck comes with a book that
                            > is one of the best books on divination I've ever
                            > found. 
                            >
                            > Salus,
                            > James
                            >
                            > --- Sawmi <sawmi@s...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > I just stumbled onto this.  I haven't had a chance
                            > > to really examine it, but just scrolling through it,
                            > > it looks pretty good.  Thought I'd post it to the
                            > > list in case anybody is interested.  Also, if anyone
                            > > feels competent to comment on it (or John Opsopaus,
                            > > the author) I'd be interested.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/ETP/index.html
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Being a Summary and Synthesis of Pythagorean
                            > > Doctrine
                            > >
                            > > on Goddesses, Gods, The One, and Theurgy
                            > >
                            > > from the Master Himself until the Italian
                            > > Renaissance  
                            > > Part I: Introduction
                            > > Part II: Goddesses
                            > > Part III: Gods
                            > > Part IIII: The One
                            > > Part V: Theurgy
                            > > Principal Sources
                            > > Note: This is a work in progress (in particular,
                            > > Part IIII will be expanded). I would be most
                            > > appreciative of any comments, positive or negative,
                            > > from small issues of expression to major issues of
                            > > content. Please send email to Opsopaus@o...
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >            
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                            > But before all, thy soul to its faithful duty,Invoke these Gods
                            with fervour, that whose aid,Thy work begun, alone can terminate. 
                            Instructed by them,naught shall then deceive thee: Of diverse beings
                            thou shalt sound the essence; And thou shalt know the principle and
                            end of All.
                            >
                            >
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