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Re: [Pythagorean-L] Re: The Masons don't seem to know (or do they?...)

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  • James McKinnon
    Visit a lodge?  Really?  You ll learn what it s like to hear a couple of old guys take 45 minutes haggling about the whys and wherefores of the Masonic
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 25, 2012
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      Visit a lodge?  Really?  You'll learn what it's like to hear a couple of old guys take 45 minutes haggling about the whys and wherefores of the Masonic Temple Association Fund, or an upcoming banquet, or a really expensive charity cruise the Shrine has planned. 
      My experience is that outside of the initiations and their lectures, you won't learn very much at all about Masonry.  There's no one there to teach you anything because, "No single individual speaks for Masonry."
      With that said, I love Masonry and I don't mind the the haggling about mundane things.  That stuff keeps the institution going, but really, if you want to go a little deeper in your quest for light, you're pretty much on your own, or you can take a look as some of the things others have noticed and see if they go anywhere useful.  

      Salus,
      James


      From: Andrew Rizzardo <le_regard@...>
      To: Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 11:29 AM
      Subject: Re: [Pythagorean-L] Re: The Masons don't seem to know (or do they?...)

       
      Before this goes any further, this is the INTERNET, and conspiracy theories about the Masons are a dime a dozen and the scholarly authority of gematria is limited at best.  IF you want to learn about Masonry visit a lodge.

      On Feb 25, 2012, theminde@... <theminde@...> wrote:
       

      Still not seing it are we Andrew.


    • Andrew Rizzardo
      My lodge has lot of retired military and retired police officers, for some reason. A lot of lodges are probably like that They re very kind men who ve seen bad
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 25, 2012
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        My lodge has lot of retired military and retired police officers, for some reason.  A lot of lodges are probably like that They're very kind men who've seen bad things and don't have a lot of friends who see the world the way they do, and come to lodge to socialize.  That's the human condition.  Masonry is ABOUT the human condition.  Any valid "Mystery" is ABOUT the human condition.  If they want to rave about number theory because they're into that, and that's a personal preference, they can do it on the internet.  I don't like seeing Masonry reduced to someone's pet theories.

        On Feb 25, 2012, James McKinnon <metatron121@...> wrote:

         

         

        Visit a lodge?  Really?  You'll learn what it's like to hear a couple of old guys take 45 minutes haggling about the whys and wherefores of the Masonic Temple Association Fund, or an upcoming banquet, or a really expensive charity cruise the Shrine has planned. 
        My experience is that outside of the initiations and their lectures, you won't learn very much at all about Masonry.  There's no one there to teach you anything because, "No single individual speaks for Masonry."
        With that said, I love Masonry and I don't mind the the haggling about mundane things.  That stuff keeps the institution going, but really, if you want to go a little deeper in your quest for light, you're pretty much on your own, or you can take a look as some of the things others have noticed and see if they go anywhere useful.  

        Salus,
        James


        From: Andrew Rizzardo <le_regard@...>
        To: Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 11:29 AM
        Subject: Re: [Pythagorean-L] Re: The Masons don't seem to know (or do they?...)

         
        Before this goes any further, this is the INTERNET, and conspiracy theories about the Masons are a dime a dozen and the scholarly authority of gematria is limited at best.  IF you want to learn about Masonry visit a lodge.

        On Feb 25, 2012, theminde@... <theminde@...> wrote:
         

        Still not seing it are we Andrew.


         

      • Andrew Rizzardo
        Honestly, this list gets the crazies. I m done with it. On Feb 25, 2012, Andrew Rizzardo wrote: My lodge has lot of retired military and
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 25, 2012
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          Honestly, this list gets the crazies.  I'm done with it.

          On Feb 25, 2012, Andrew Rizzardo <le_regard@...> wrote:

           

          My lodge has lot of retired military and retired police officers, for some reason.  A lot of lodges are probably like that They're very kind men who've seen bad things and don't have a lot of friends who see the world the way they do, and come to lodge to socialize.  That's the human condition.  Masonry is ABOUT the human condition.  Any valid "Mystery" is ABOUT the human condition.  If they want to rave about number theory because they're into that, and that's a personal preference, they can do it on the internet.  I don't like seeing Masonry reduced to someone's pet theories.

          On Feb 25, 2012, James McKinnon <metatron121@...> wrote:

           

           

          Visit a lodge?  Really?  You'll learn what it's like to hear a couple of old guys take 45 minutes haggling about the whys and wherefores of the Masonic Temple Association Fund, or an upcoming banquet, or a really expensive charity cruise the Shrine has planned. 
          My experience is that outside of the initiations and their lectures, you won't learn very much at all about Masonry.  There's no one there to teach you anything because, "No single individual speaks for Masonry."
          With that said, I love Masonry and I don't mind the the haggling about mundane things.  That stuff keeps the institution going, but really, if you want to go a little deeper in your quest for light, you're pretty much on your own, or you can take a look as some of the things others have noticed and see if they go anywhere useful.  

          Salus,
          James


          From: Andrew Rizzardo <le_regard@...>
          To: Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 11:29 AM
          Subject: Re: [Pythagorean-L] Re: The Masons don't seem to know (or do they?...)

           
          Before this goes any further, this is the INTERNET, and conspiracy theories about the Masons are a dime a dozen and the scholarly authority of gematria is limited at best.  IF you want to learn about Masonry visit a lodge.

          On Feb 25, 2012, theminde@... <theminde@...> wrote:
           

          Still not seing it are we Andrew.


           

           

        • James McKinnon
          Andrew, I m a veteran myself with four combat deployments.  I agree with you that Masonry is a fantastic place for men to socialize in the context of
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 25, 2012
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            Andrew,

            I'm a veteran myself with four combat deployments.  I agree with you that Masonry is a fantastic place for men to socialize in the context of traditional virtues.  There is for some, however, a little bit of a bait and switch regarding Masonry, at least in America.  From the outside looking in the institution appears to be overrun with esoteric symbolism and mysticism.  There also are old school Masonic writers like Pike who really push things like magic, kabbalah and numerology.  For instance, in Pikes, Morals and Dogma, (which up until the 90s was official lecture series of the U.S. Southern Jurisdiction of the AASR) he wrote 32 Chapters, one for each degree, but a third of the book is dedicated to one chapter, Knight of the Sun, Prince Adept, which is dominated by numerology, kabbalah and magic.  So, when some prospective candidates see that, they naturally assume that they'll get to learn the really deep and meaningful stuff once they join and are initiated.  What they end up finding is a class of socializing and mundane discussion that they could have gotten from joining a baseball or bowling league. 
            Some, however, don't give up, and end up forming smaller groups like rosicrucian societies and so forth.  I really think there should be room in Masonry for the common man and the "crazies." 

            Salus,
            James


            From: Andrew Rizzardo <le_regard@...>
            To: Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 11:51 AM
            Subject: Re: Re: Re: [Pythagorean-L] Re: The Masons don't seem to know (or do they?...)

             
            Honestly, this list gets the crazies.  I'm done with it.

            On Feb 25, 2012, Andrew Rizzardo <le_regard@...> wrote:
             
            My lodge has lot of retired military and retired police officers, for some reason.  A lot of lodges are probably like that They're very kind men who've seen bad things and don't have a lot of friends who see the world the way they do, and come to lodge to socialize.  That's the human condition.  Masonry is ABOUT the human condition.  Any valid "Mystery" is ABOUT the human condition.  If they want to rave about number theory because they're into that, and that's a personal preference, they can do it on the internet.  I don't like seeing Masonry reduced to someone's pet theories.
            On Feb 25, 2012, James McKinnon <metatron121@...> wrote:
             
             
            Visit a lodge?  Really?  You'll learn what it's like to hear a couple of old guys take 45 minutes haggling about the whys and wherefores of the Masonic Temple Association Fund, or an upcoming banquet, or a really expensive charity cruise the Shrine has planned. 
            My experience is that outside of the initiations and their lectures, you won't learn very much at all about Masonry.  There's no one there to teach you anything because, "No single individual speaks for Masonry."
            With that said, I love Masonry and I don't mind the the haggling about mundane things.  That stuff keeps the institution going, but really, if you want to go a little deeper in your quest for light, you're pretty much on your own, or you can take a look as some of the things others have noticed and see if they go anywhere useful.  

            Salus,
            James


            From: Andrew Rizzardo <le_regard@...>
            To: Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 11:29 AM
            Subject: Re: [Pythagorean-L] Re: The Masons don't seem to know (or do they?...)

             
            Before this goes any further, this is the INTERNET, and conspiracy theories about the Masons are a dime a dozen and the scholarly authority of gematria is limited at best.  IF you want to learn about Masonry visit a lodge.

            On Feb 25, 2012, theminde@... <theminde@...> wrote:
             

            Still not seing it are we Andrew.


             
             


          • theminde@btinternet.com
            I am talking about the pre-Masons Andrew, and I have no interest whatever in modern societies. What purpose would it serve to visit a lodge? I am not claiming
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 25, 2012
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              I am talking about the pre-Masons Andrew, and I have no interest whatever in modern societies. What purpose would it serve to visit a lodge? I am not claiming any conspiracy, so where did you get that from?
              As for Gemetria, I offered you an example of something found in a Shakespeare sonnet, which you obviously are incapable of understanding. Is it due to blinkers or sheer ignorance?

              I might remind you that this is a Pythagorean site, and therefore the subject of number, no matter from whatever source is valid. So why are you upset? If you don't get simple arithmetic, I understand. No shame in it.

              Tom C
            • theminde@btinternet.com
              Phew! Now I am glad I never visited a lodge. Thanks for the warning James. Tom C
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 25, 2012
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                Phew! Now I am glad I never visited a lodge.

                Thanks for the warning James.

                Tom C
                =========================================

                --- In Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com, James McKinnon <metatron121@...> wrote:
                >
                > Visit a lodge?  Really?  You'll learn what it's like to hear a couple of old guys take 45 minutes haggling about the whys and wherefores of the Masonic Temple Association Fund, or an upcoming banquet, or a really expensive charity cruise the Shrine has planned. 
                >
                > My experience is that outside of the initiations and their lectures, you won't learn very much at all about Masonry.  There's no one there to teach you anything because, "No single individual speaks for Masonry."
                >
                > With that said, I love Masonry and I don't mind the the haggling about mundane things.  That stuff keeps the institution going, but really, if you want to go a little deeper in your quest for light, you're pretty much on your own, or you can take a look as some of the things others have noticed and see if they go anywhere useful.  
                >
                > Salus,
                > James
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Andrew Rizzardo <le_regard@...>
                > To: Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 11:29 AM
                > Subject: Re: [Pythagorean-L] Re: The Masons don't seem to know (or do they?...)
                >
                >
                >  
                > Before this goes any further, this is the INTERNET, and conspiracy theories about the Masons are a dime a dozen and the scholarly authority of gematria is limited at best.  IF you want to learn about Masonry visit a lodge.
                >
                >
                > On Feb 25, 2012, theminde@... <theminde@...> wrote:
                >  
                > >
                > >Still not seing it are we Andrew.
                > >
                >
              • a_pythagorean
                James, That s been my experience in a lot of lodges as well. I ve met so many esoterically-inclined brothers over the years, though, that from my perspective
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 25, 2012
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                  James,

                  That's been my experience in a lot of lodges as well. I've met so many esoterically-inclined brothers over the years, though, that from my perspective Masonry IS indeed overrun with esoteric symbolism and mysticism.

                  Perhaps I've been lucky. My earliest experience with that Masonry that I was looking for was in a Scottish Rite study group, not the Blue Lodge.

                  Come to Denver sometime and visit a Traditional Observance Lodge with me. I think you'd like it a lot.

                  Hygieia!

                  Brett


                  --- In Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com, James McKinnon <metatron121@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Andrew,
                  >
                  >
                  > I'm a veteran myself with four combat deployments.  I agree with you that Masonry is a fantastic place for men to socialize in the context of traditional virtues.  There is for some, however, a little bit of a bait and switch regarding Masonry, at least in America.  From the outside looking in the institution appears to be overrun with esoteric symbolism and mysticism.  There also are old school Masonic writers like Pike who really push things like magic, kabbalah and numerology.  For instance, in Pikes, Morals and Dogma, (which up until the 90s was official lecture series of the U.S. Southern Jurisdiction of the AASR) he wrote 32 Chapters, one for each degree, but a third of the book is dedicated to one chapter, Knight of the Sun, Prince Adept, which is dominated by numerology, kabbalah and magic.  So, when some prospective candidates see that, they naturally assume that they'll get to learn the really deep and meaningful stuff once they join and
                  > are initiated.  What they end up finding is a class of socializing and mundane discussion that they could have gotten from joining a baseball or bowling league. 
                  >
                  > Some, however, don't give up, and end up forming smaller groups like rosicrucian societies and so forth.  I really think there should be room in Masonry for the common man and the "crazies." 
                  >
                  >
                  > Salus,
                  > James
                  >
                • theminde@btinternet.com
                  I might have thought it was impressive if I believed in an antichrist , but either way, I fail to see what your example proves. Unless, of course you are
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 25, 2012
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                    I might have thought it was impressive if I believed in an "antichrist", but either way, I fail to see what your example proves. Unless, of course you are trying to say that anything can be achieved through the manipulation of letters and numbers. I agree with that, which is the reason I have no interest in what you call "numerology".

                    Is it possible for you to grasp this: John Dee was a mathematician who played with alphabets. In his time the idea of numbering names was not unknown. Your own example link shows why they believed so deeply in number-names stuff, when it mentioned the book of revelations and 666 etc.

                    So, John Dee would surely have had some knowledge of the numbers contained in his own name.

                    Having shown the resultant of dividing the greater by the smaller, I am sure Dee would have known this fact also.

                    By things such as these Dee convinced Elizabeth Tudor of his powers and, along with the voices of others, convinced her to fund a new English occult society, that which later became the Freemasons.

                    The evidence is quite profound. Here's an example: Elizabeth I is shown in what is called the "rainbow portrait" with a serpent embroidered on her left arm.

                    Elizabeth got poet Edmund Spenser to write his "Fairy Queene" specifically for her.

                    Can you see the relationship between Spenser and that sssssnake on Elissssabeth'ssss arm?

                    Think Latin.

                    Tom C
                  • theminde@btinternet.com
                    Assuming you are not passing some kind of veiled threat, I say bully for you and them Andrew. All I try to do is speak of the pre-masons and perhaps roote out
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 25, 2012
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                      Assuming you are not passing some kind of veiled threat, I say bully for you and them Andrew.

                      All I try to do is speak of the pre-masons and perhaps

                      "roote out the worke of masonry"

                      Shakespeare Sonnet 55

                      Tom C
                    • a_pythagorean
                      FYI - Andrew left the group. Hygieia, Brett
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 25, 2012
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                        FYI - Andrew left the group.

                        Hygieia,
                        Brett

                        --- In Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com, "theminde@..." <theminde@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Assuming you are not passing some kind of veiled threat, I say bully for you and them Andrew.
                        >
                        > All I try to do is speak of the pre-masons and perhaps
                        >
                        > "roote out the worke of masonry"
                        >
                        > Shakespeare Sonnet 55
                        >
                        > Tom C
                        >
                      • metatron121@yahoo.com
                        Don t think I would discourage anyone from becoming a Mason. There s a saying in the army, the map is not the terrain. In the same sense that you can t
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 25, 2012
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                          Don't think I would discourage anyone from becoming a Mason. There's a saying in the army, "the map is not the terrain." In the same sense that you can't really know what terrain is really like by reading a map, there are things you can never really understand about Masonry without being initiated. Really, things that would help someone like you with your studies.

                          Salus,
                          James

                          Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                          From: "theminde@..." <theminde@...>
                          Sender: Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 22:49:29 -0000
                          To: <Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com>
                          ReplyTo: Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [Pythagorean-L] Re: The Masons don't seem to know (or do they?...)

                           


                          Phew! Now I am glad I never visited a lodge.

                          Thanks for the warning James.

                          Tom C
                          =========================================

                          --- In Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com, James McKinnon <metatron121@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Visit a lodge?  Really?  You'll learn what it's like to hear a couple of old guys take 45 minutes haggling about the whys and wherefores of the Masonic Temple Association Fund, or an upcoming banquet, or a really expensive charity cruise the Shrine has planned. 
                          >
                          > My experience is that outside of the initiations and their lectures, you won't learn very much at all about Masonry.  There's no one there to teach you anything because, "No single individual speaks for Masonry."
                          >
                          > With that said, I love Masonry and I don't mind the the haggling about mundane things.  That stuff keeps the institution going, but really, if you want to go a little deeper in your quest for light, you're pretty much on your own, or you can take a look as some of the things others have noticed and see if they go anywhere useful.  
                          >
                          > Salus,
                          > James
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: Andrew Rizzardo <le_regard@...>
                          > To: Pythagorean-L@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 11:29 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [Pythagorean-L] Re: The Masons don't seem to know (or do they?...)
                          >
                          >
                          >  
                          > Before this goes any further, this is the INTERNET, and conspiracy theories about the Masons are a dime a dozen and the scholarly authority of gematria is limited at best.  IF you want to learn about Masonry visit a lodge.
                          >
                          >
                          > On Feb 25, 2012, theminde@... <theminde@...> wrote:
                          >  
                          > >
                          > >Still not seing it are we Andrew.
                          > >
                          >

                        • Wayne
                          True! The Masons do not know nor does anyone Else know the simple Truth. It is all about the Salvation of Mankind, Immortality, the Holy Grail, The Ark of
                          Message 12 of 20 , Feb 22, 2013
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                            True! The Masons do not know nor does anyone Else know the simple Truth.

                            It is all about the Salvation of Mankind, Immortality, the Holy Grail, The Ark of Gilgamesh, Noah's Ark, the Ark of the Covenant, Sacred Geometry, the Pyramid, the Everlasting, Eternal Life of the Species of Mankind.

                            What is on the Mind of God.

                            Because we speak in metaphors language is just so much Babel.

                            Primary Matter is Monolithic.
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