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Re: [PulseDiagnosis] six channel pulses

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  • William Morris
    Hi Dan - A distortion in the trajectory of the radial artery has a number of possible interpretations. A question at this point could be, which paradigmatic
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 1, 2008
      Hi Dan -

      A distortion in the trajectory of the radial artery has a number of possible interpretations. A question at this point could be, which paradigmatic view is appropriate for the problem at hand? I call this a metaparadigmatic view. Such a perspective requires knowledge of pertinent interpretations of the phenomena. In this case, we will consider the distortion in the radial aspect of the pulse in the right distal-1st-cun position.

      A radial distortion in the right distal position has three possible interpretations that are discussed in what I call the Neoclassical tradition. Neoclassical pulse diagnosis involves in part, a reconstruction that I have made of the works from Wang Shu He and the Su Wen Chapter Four. The publication of these interpretations of the literature are available at www.pulsediagnosis.com and the original publications may be found at acupuncturetoday.com. The Menghe-Ding tradition as communicated by Shen and Hammer have no published interpretation for radial distortions in the right distal position.

      Repeating Korzybky's message, the map is not the territory. The starting point for pulse diagnosis is when the clinician draws distinctions in order to direct the clinical gaze. The core knowledges of Chinese medicine involve pattern discrimination. As a pattern begins to emerge, then certain pulse models may be selected in order to investigate the processes and systems that are making themselves apparent during the course of clinical inquiry. This is a practical approach for a busy clinician. However, collecting and analyzing all available pulse information is possible and can be useful, especially in complex case scenarios. 

      Radial Distortion of the Right Distal Position

      Radial distortions in the right distal position may be interpreted as tai yang, metal imbalance or a yang wei mai. If the pulse in the right distal position extends in the radial region, one must rule out stagnation of qi and blood in the sinews of the tai yang urinary bladder by palpating the channel or inquiring as to muscoluoskeletal symptoms along the trajectories of both the arm and leg tai yang. Rule out yang wei by examination of the proximal pulse position, look for an ulnar displacement there. The metal imbalance within fire can be ruled out by therapy, if one opens the tai yang and there is no change, check the metal point on either the lung or large intestine vessels (Lu11, LI1).

      Repletion-Depletion                                                                                                                                                                                               As for repletion and depletion in the six vessels, this is another interesting conversation. The distortions in the radial artery often provide insufficient information to determine repletion and depletion status. However, if they do, then great. But, caution, such a reductionist consideration can fail to capture the nuances of human reality.

      Like you, I prefer to palpate the channels. In fact many times there are both repletions and depletions in chronic conditions. This is not merely true for the five agents, but the zang fu, the channels: and curiously enough, within points. Therefore one may use a supplementing method in one area of the channel and disperse another. Further, one may supplement at one depth of a point and disperse a another.

      In Summary
      The presence of a radial distortion does not usually provide data about repletion and depletion. Further, the complexities and paradoxes of life usually present with both depletion and repletion. Treat what you palpate.
       
      Will

      On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 4:04 PM, dan johnson <flyfunktionable@...> wrote:

      when feeling the pulse, its trajectory should be contained within the intended pathway of the vessel through the cun, gun, and chi.  if the vessel extends radially or ulnarly from those positions it may be indicative of a six channel pathology.

      once this pathology is noted is the next step to determine whether the channel involved is in the state of excess or deficient?  for example, if feeling the right cun position,  if the pulse is felt to extend towards the radial border, we then assign that sensation the name of tai yang.  does the assigned meaning to this correlate to either excess or deficiency, or does it simply reveal meridian compensation (as in the manifestation of extra vessel pulses)

      if the assigned meaning is to ascribe vessel compensation, i would then think that manual or energetic palpation of the indicated meridian along with further derived diagnositic information would lead to conclusion of either excess or deficiency within the meridian.  

      continuing this thought, assuming prior thoughts are correct, with pulses indicating multiple vessel involvement, interesting patterns could be reveals between compensated vessels according to bie jing, biao li and chinese clock relationships.


      Would anyone care to offer feedback, additions,and or corrections to my understanding???

      forever growing,


      Daniel Johnson



      Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.



      --
      Warmly,

      Will


      William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc
      http://theccrt.com/
      http://www.aoma.edu/
      http://www.pulsediagnosis.com/

      When individuals come together with a shared intention, in a conducive environment, something mysterious can come into being, with capacities and intelligences that far transcend those of the individuals involved.
    • dan johnson
      thank you will, you da man dan William Morris wrote: Hi Dan - A distortion in the trajectory of the radial
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 1, 2008
        thank you will,

        you da man


        dan

        William Morris <wmorris33@...> wrote:
        Hi Dan -

        A distortion in the trajectory of the radial artery has a number of possible interpretations. A question at this point could be, which paradigmatic view is appropriate for the problem at hand? I call this a metaparadigmatic view. Such a perspective requires knowledge of pertinent interpretations of the phenomena. In this case, we will consider the distortion in the radial aspect of the pulse in the right distal-1st-cun position.

        A radial distortion in the right distal position has three possible interpretations that are discussed in what I call the Neoclassical tradition. Neoclassical pulse diagnosis involves in part, a reconstruction that I have made of the works from Wang Shu He and the Su Wen Chapter Four. The publication of these interpretations of the literature are available at www.pulsediagnosis. com and the original publications may be found at acupuncturetoday. com. The Menghe-Ding tradition as communicated by Shen and Hammer have no published interpretation for radial distortions in the right distal position.
        Repeating Korzybky's message, the map is not the territory. The starting point for pulse diagnosis is when the clinician draws distinctions in order to direct the clinical gaze. The core knowledges of Chinese medicine involve pattern discrimination. As a pattern begins to emerge, then certain pulse models may be selected in order to investigate the processes and systems that are making themselves apparent during the course of clinical inquiry. This is a practical approach for a busy clinician. However, collecting and analyzing all available pulse information is possible and can be useful, especially in complex case scenarios. 
        Radial Distortion of the Right Distal Position
        Radial distortions in the right distal position may be interpreted as tai yang, metal imbalance or a yang wei mai. If the pulse in the right distal position extends in the radial region, one must rule out stagnation of qi and blood in the sinews of the tai yang urinary bladder by palpating the channel or inquiring as to muscoluoskeletal symptoms along the trajectories of both the arm and leg tai yang. Rule out yang wei by examination of the proximal pulse position, look for an ulnar displacement there. The metal imbalance within fire can be ruled out by therapy, if one opens the tai yang and there is no change, check the metal point on either the lung or large intestine vessels (Lu11, LI1).
        Repletion-Depletion                                                                                                                                                             &nb sp;                                 As for repletion and depletion in the six vessels, this is another interesting conversation. The distortions in the radial artery often provide insufficient information to determine repletion and depletion status. However, if they do, then great. But, caution, such a reductionist consideration can fail to capture the nuances of human reality.
        Like you, I prefer to palpate the channels. In fact many times there are both repletions and depletions in chronic conditions. This is not merely true for the five agents, but the zang fu, the channels: and curiously enough, within points. Therefore one may use a supplementing method in one area of the channel and disperse another. Further, one may supplement at one depth of a point and disperse a another.

        In Summary
        The presence of a radial distortion does not usually provide data about repletion and depletion. Further, the complexities and paradoxes of life usually present with both depletion and repletion. Treat what you palpate.
         
        Will

        On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 4:04 PM, dan johnson <flyfunktionable@ yahoo.com> wrote:
        when feeling the pulse, its trajectory should be contained within the intended pathway of the vessel through the cun, gun, and chi.  if the vessel extends radially or ulnarly from those positions it may be indicative of a six channel pathology.

        once this pathology is noted is the next step to determine whether the channel involved is in the state of excess or deficient?  for example, if feeling the right cun position,  if the pulse is felt to extend towards the radial border, we then assign that sensation the name of tai yang.  does the assigned meaning to this correlate to either excess or deficiency, or does it simply reveal meridian compensation (as in the manifestation of extra vessel pulses)

        if the assigned meaning is to ascribe vessel compensation, i would then think that manual or energetic palpation of the indicated meridian along with further derived diagnositic information would lead to conclusion of either excess or deficiency within the meridian.  

        continuing this thought, assuming prior thoughts are correct, with pulses indicating multiple vessel involvement, interesting patterns could be reveals between compensated vessels according to bie jing, biao li and chinese clock relationships.


        Would anyone care to offer feedback, additions,and or corrections to my understanding? ??

        forever growing,


        Daniel Johnson



        Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.



        --
        Warmly,

        Will


        William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc
        http://theccrt. com/
        http://www.aoma. edu/
        http://www.pulsedia gnosis.com/

        When individuals come together with a shared intention, in a conducive environment, something mysterious can come into being, with capacities and intelligences that far transcend those of the individuals involved.


        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

      • William Morris
        For a little bit about where I am coming from in the perspectival domain: Radical constructivism Ernst von Glasersfeld
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 1, 2008

          For a little bit about where I am coming from in the perspectival domain:


          Radical constructivism

          Ernst von Glasersfeld is a prominent proponent of radical constructivism, which claims that knowledge is the self-organized cognitive process of the human brain. That is, the process of constructing knowledge regulates itself, and since knowledge is a construct rather than a compilation of empirical data, it is impossible to know the extent to which knowledge reflects an ontological reality.

          See also: Francisco Varela, Humberto Maturana, and Heinz von Foerster
          In other words - what are we trying to prove?

          Will

          On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 8:26 AM, dan johnson <flyfunktionable@...> wrote:

          thank you will,

          you da man


          dan



          William Morris <wmorris33@...> wrote:
          Hi Dan -

          A distortion in the trajectory of the radial artery has a number of possible interpretations. A question at this point could be, which paradigmatic view is appropriate for the problem at hand? I call this a metaparadigmatic view. Such a perspective requires knowledge of pertinent interpretations of the phenomena. In this case, we will consider the distortion in the radial aspect of the pulse in the right distal-1st-cun position.

          A radial distortion in the right distal position has three possible interpretations that are discussed in what I call the Neoclassical tradition. Neoclassical pulse diagnosis involves in part, a reconstruction that I have made of the works from Wang Shu He and the Su Wen Chapter Four. The publication of these interpretations of the literature are available at www.pulsediagnosis.com and the original publications may be found at acupuncturetoday.com. The Menghe-Ding tradition as communicated by Shen and Hammer have no published interpretation for radial distortions in the right distal position.
          Repeating Korzybky's message, the map is not the territory. The starting point for pulse diagnosis is when the clinician draws distinctions in order to direct the clinical gaze. The core knowledges of Chinese medicine involve pattern discrimination. As a pattern begins to emerge, then certain pulse models may be selected in order to investigate the processes and systems that are making themselves apparent during the course of clinical inquiry. This is a practical approach for a busy clinician. However, collecting and analyzing all available pulse information is possible and can be useful, especially in complex case scenarios. 
          Radial Distortion of the Right Distal Position
          Radial distortions in the right distal position may be interpreted as tai yang, metal imbalance or a yang wei mai. If the pulse in the right distal position extends in the radial region, one must rule out stagnation of qi and blood in the sinews of the tai yang urinary bladder by palpating the channel or inquiring as to muscoluoskeletal symptoms along the trajectories of both the arm and leg tai yang. Rule out yang wei by examination of the proximal pulse position, look for an ulnar displacement there. The metal imbalance within fire can be ruled out by therapy, if one opens the tai yang and there is no change, check the metal point on either the lung or large intestine vessels (Lu11, LI1).
          Repletion-Depletion                                                                                                                                                             &nb sp;                                 As for repletion and depletion in the six vessels, this is another interesting conversation. The distortions in the radial artery often provide insufficient information to determine repletion and depletion status. However, if they do, then great. But, caution, such a reductionist consideration can fail to capture the nuances of human reality.
          Like you, I prefer to palpate the channels. In fact many times there are both repletions and depletions in chronic conditions. This is not merely true for the five agents, but the zang fu, the channels: and curiously enough, within points. Therefore one may use a supplementing method in one area of the channel and disperse another. Further, one may supplement at one depth of a point and disperse a another.

          In Summary
          The presence of a radial distortion does not usually provide data about repletion and depletion. Further, the complexities and paradoxes of life usually present with both depletion and repletion. Treat what you palpate.
           
          Will

          On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 4:04 PM, dan johnson <flyfunktionable@...> wrote:
          when feeling the pulse, its trajectory should be contained within the intended pathway of the vessel through the cun, gun, and chi.  if the vessel extends radially or ulnarly from those positions it may be indicative of a six channel pathology.

          once this pathology is noted is the next step to determine whether the channel involved is in the state of excess or deficient?  for example, if feeling the right cun position,  if the pulse is felt to extend towards the radial border, we then assign that sensation the name of tai yang.  does the assigned meaning to this correlate to either excess or deficiency, or does it simply reveal meridian compensation (as in the manifestation of extra vessel pulses)

          if the assigned meaning is to ascribe vessel compensation, i would then think that manual or energetic palpation of the indicated meridian along with further derived diagnositic information would lead to conclusion of either excess or deficiency within the meridian.  

          continuing this thought, assuming prior thoughts are correct, with pulses indicating multiple vessel involvement, interesting patterns could be reveals between compensated vessels according to bie jing, biao li and chinese clock relationships.


          Would anyone care to offer feedback, additions,and or corrections to my understanding???

          forever growing,


          Daniel Johnson



          Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.



          --
          Warmly,

          Will


          William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc
          http://theccrt.com/
          http://www.aoma.edu/
          http://www.pulsediagnosis.com/

          When individuals come together with a shared intention, in a conducive environment, something mysterious can come into being, with capacities and intelligences that far transcend those of the individuals involved.


          Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.



          --
          Warmly,

          Will


          William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc
          http://theccrt.com/
          http://www.aoma.edu/
          http://www.pulsediagnosis.com/

          When individuals come together with a shared intention, in a conducive environment, something mysterious can come into being, with capacities and intelligences that far transcend those of the individuals involved.
        • Steveacu1@AOL.com
          ... Isn t that the whole question? Steve Schachter ************** Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 1, 2008

            In a message dated 3/1/08 10:22:56 AM, wmorris33@... writes:


            In other words - what are we trying to prove?



            Isn't that the whole question?

            Steve Schachter



            **************
            Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
            (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
          • William Morris
            Hi Steve - Would you speak further to your statement? Thanks... Will ... -- Warmly, Will William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc http://theccrt.com/
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 1, 2008
              Hi Steve -

              Would you speak further to your statement? Thanks...

              Will






              Isn't that the whole question?

              Steve Schachter



              **************
              Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
              (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)



              --
              Warmly,

              Will


              William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc
              http://theccrt.com/
              http://www.aoma.edu/
              http://www.pulsediagnosis.com/

              When individuals come together with a shared intention, in a conducive environment, something mysterious can come into being, with capacities and intelligences that far transcend those of the individuals involved.
            • dan johnson
              i personally do not believe the attitude of proving things is beneficial to myself or my clients. proving tends to initiate a attitude of force. here power
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 1, 2008
                i personally do not believe the attitude of proving things is beneficial to myself or my clients.   proving tends to initiate a attitude of force.  here power struggles are created, leading to enhanced separation between myself and my surroundings.  (entering into a dualistic approach)  this makes certain resources more difficult to access

                if instead of proving things, you can approach with the attitude of acknowledgement or noticing, the power struggle is bypassed and i can keep myself in harmony with the surroundings.  (maintain a  monistic approach) this allows greater access to everything

                the attitude of what you are right now is okay, leads to greater presence and substantial power can be derived from the situation.

                i have been exploring linguistical shifts like the one cited above and have noticed a significant enhancement of my life and surroundings when playing within the realm of power.


                good book to read is by david hawkins  "power verse force"

                dan

                Steveacu1@... wrote:

                In a message dated 3/1/08 10:22:56 AM, wmorris33@gmail. com writes:


                In other words - what are we trying to prove?



                Isn't that the whole question?

                Steve Schachter



                ************ **
                Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
                (http://living. aol.com/video/ how-to-please- your-picky- eater/rachel- campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID= aolcmp0030000000 2598)


                Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

              • William Morris
                Dan - I agree with you. Here we have a conversation in the interpersonal realm. How do you see proof in the context of a culture that heavily promotes it? For
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 2, 2008
                  Dan - I agree with you. Here we have a conversation in the interpersonal realm. How do you see proof in the context of a culture that heavily promotes it? For instance, evidence based medicine, this may lead us also into discussion about the politics of evidence. But also we have many peers here who consider evidence to be important in medicine.

                  My point is that what qualifies as proof and evidence are culturally determined, the same is true for medical beliefs. It wasn't that long ago that we believed that mercury and bleeding were useful treatments....;-)

                  Thanks for the book recommendation - I'll check it out.

                  Just in case pulse diagnosers out there feel this is off topic for the list, I think this conversation speaks to the assumptions about what and how we practice.

                  W


                  On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 1:41 AM, dan johnson <flyfunktionable@...> wrote:

                  i personally do not believe the attitude of proving things is beneficial to myself or my clients.   proving tends to initiate a attitude of force.  here power struggles are created, leading to enhanced separation between myself and my surroundings.  (entering into a dualistic approach)  this makes certain resources more difficult to access

                  if instead of proving things, you can approach with the attitude of acknowledgement or noticing, the power struggle is bypassed and i can keep myself in harmony with the surroundings.  (maintain a  monistic approach) this allows greater access to everything

                  the attitude of what you are right now is okay, leads to greater presence and substantial power can be derived from the situation.

                  i have been exploring linguistical shifts like the one cited above and have noticed a significant enhancement of my life and surroundings when playing within the realm of power.


                  good book to read is by david hawkins  "power verse force"

                  dan



                  Steveacu1@... wrote:

                  In a message dated 3/1/08 10:22:56 AM, wmorris33@... writes:


                  In other words - what are we trying to prove?



                  Isn't that the whole question?

                  Steve Schachter



                  **************
                  Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
                  (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


                  Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.



                  --
                  Warmly,

                  Will


                  William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc
                  http://theccrt.com/
                  http://www.aoma.edu/
                  http://www.pulsediagnosis.com/

                  When individuals come together with a shared intention, in a conducive environment, something mysterious can come into being, with capacities and intelligences that far transcend those of the individuals involved.
                • Colby Hartsell
                  Personally I find the direction this discussion has taken to be of importance. My contention is the more self awareness brought to our ontological and
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 2, 2008
                    Personally I find the direction this discussion has taken to be of importance. My contention is the more self awareness brought to our ontological and epistemological positions and assumptions the more enriched or day to day and clinical experiences become. Moreover, in the clinic, if we are able to access a pluralistic resourcefulness then we are able to maneuver with in the clinical situation with greater ease and benefit - being able to meet the patient in their own biases, speak in their language, and then if necessary perhaps entice other possibilities. In this regard, our own assumptions, biases, leanings, etc. be they self determined or total consequences of culture need to be self aware. Only then are we able to potential shift gears and perceive differently. Again, I believe this enriches the day to day of our existence, but also benefits our clinical experience.
                     
                    So, cheers to the philosophical wax we've entered.
                     
                    But, I would like to follow up on the initial discussion... Will, the gentlemen you treated for heavy metal accumulations, what were his complaints and other s/s? To what benefit, in his particular situation, did the heavy metal treatment achieve? Also, could you elaborate on the herbal and dietary treatment... How much garlic per day? With what other foods did you recommend? What were the associated herbs that you used in his formulas? 
                     
                    Thanks,
                    Colby

                    William Morris <wmorris33@...> wrote:

                    For a little bit about where I am coming from in the perspectival domain:


                    Radical constructivism

                    Ernst von Glasersfeld is a prominent proponent of radical constructivism, which claims that knowledge is the self-organized cognitive process of the human brain. That is, the process of constructing knowledge regulates itself, and since knowledge is a construct rather than a compilation of empirical data, it is impossible to know the extent to which knowledge reflects an ontological reality.
                    See also: Francisco Varela, Humberto Maturana, and Heinz von Foerster
                    In other words - what are we trying to prove?

                    Will

                    On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 8:26 AM, dan johnson <flyfunktionable@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                    thank you will,

                    you da man


                    dan


                    William Morris <wmorris33@gmail. com> wrote:
                    Hi Dan -

                    A distortion in the trajectory of the radial artery has a number of possible interpretations. A question at this point could be, which paradigmatic view is appropriate for the problem at hand? I call this a metaparadigmatic view. Such a perspective requires knowledge of pertinent interpretations of the phenomena. In this case, we will consider the distortion in the radial aspect of the pulse in the right distal-1st-cun position.

                    A radial distortion in the right distal position has three possible interpretations that are discussed in what I call the Neoclassical tradition. Neoclassical pulse diagnosis involves in part, a reconstruction that I have made of the works from Wang Shu He and the Su Wen Chapter Four. The publication of these interpretations of the literature are available at www.pulsediagnosis. com and the original publications may be found at acupuncturetoday. com. The Menghe-Ding tradition as communicated by Shen and Hammer have no published interpretation for radial distortions in the right distal position.
                    Repeating Korzybky's message, the map is not the territory. The starting point for pulse diagnosis is when the clinician draws distinctions in order to direct the clinical gaze. The core knowledges of Chinese medicine involve pattern discrimination. As a pattern begins to emerge, then certain pulse models may be selected in order to investigate the processes and systems that are making themselves apparent during the course of clinical inquiry. This is a practical approach for a busy clinician. However, collecting and analyzing all available pulse information is possible and can be useful, especially in complex case scenarios. 
                    Radial Distortion of the Right Distal Position
                    Radial distortions in the right distal position may be interpreted as tai yang, metal imbalance or a yang wei mai. If the pulse in the right distal position extends in the radial region, one must rule out stagnation of qi and blood in the sinews of the tai yang urinary bladder by palpating the channel or inquiring as to muscoluoskeletal symptoms along the trajectories of both the arm and leg tai yang. Rule out yang wei by examination of the proximal pulse position, look for an ulnar displacement there. The metal imbalance within fire can be ruled out by therapy, if one opens the tai yang and there is no change, check the metal point on either the lung or large intestine vessels (Lu11, LI1).
                    Repletion-Depletion                                                                                                                                                             &nb sp;                                 As for repletion and depletion in the six vessels, this is another interesting conversation. The distortions in the radial artery often provide insufficient information to determine repletion and depletion status. However, if they do, then great. But, caution, such a reductionist consideration can fail to capture the nuances of human reality.
                    Like you, I prefer to palpate the channels. In fact many times there are both repletions and depletions in chronic conditions. This is not merely true for the five agents, but the zang fu, the channels: and curiously enough, within points. Therefore one may use a supplementing method in one area of the channel and disperse another. Further, one may supplement at one depth of a point and disperse a another.

                    In Summary
                    The presence of a radial distortion does not usually provide data about repletion and depletion. Further, the complexities and paradoxes of life usually present with both depletion and repletion. Treat what you palpate.
                     
                    Will

                    On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 4:04 PM, dan johnson <flyfunktionable@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                    when feeling the pulse, its trajectory should be contained within the intended pathway of the vessel through the cun, gun, and chi.  if the vessel extends radially or ulnarly from those positions it may be indicative of a six channel pathology.

                    once this pathology is noted is the next step to determine whether the channel involved is in the state of excess or deficient?  for example, if feeling the right cun position,  if the pulse is felt to extend towards the radial border, we then assign that sensation the name of tai yang.  does the assigned meaning to this correlate to either excess or deficiency, or does it simply reveal meridian compensation (as in the manifestation of extra vessel pulses)

                    if the assigned meaning is to ascribe vessel compensation, i would then think that manual or energetic palpation of the indicated meridian along with further derived diagnositic information would lead to conclusion of either excess or deficiency within the meridian.  

                    continuing this thought, assuming prior thoughts are correct, with pulses indicating multiple vessel involvement, interesting patterns could be reveals between compensated vessels according to bie jing, biao li and chinese clock relationships.


                    Would anyone care to offer feedback, additions,and or corrections to my understanding? ??

                    forever growing,


                    Daniel Johnson



                    Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.



                    --
                    Warmly,

                    Will


                    William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc
                    http://theccrt. com/
                    http://www.aoma. edu/
                    http://www.pulsedia gnosis.com/

                    When individuals come together with a shared intention, in a conducive environment, something mysterious can come into being, with capacities and intelligences that far transcend those of the individuals involved.


                    Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.



                    --
                    Warmly,

                    Will


                    William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc
                    http://theccrt. com/
                    http://www.aoma. edu/
                    http://www.pulsedia gnosis.com/

                    When individuals come together with a shared intention, in a conducive environment, something mysterious can come into being, with capacities and intelligences that far transcend those of the individuals involved.


                    Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

                  • William Morris
                    Hi Colby - I saw this man in 1994, so my recollections of the case are rather vague. His chief complaints were fatigue and shoulder pain. The symptoms were
                    Message 9 of 23 , Mar 2, 2008
                      Hi Colby -

                      I saw this man in 1994, so my recollections of the case are rather vague. His chief complaints were fatigue and shoulder pain. The symptoms were resolved with treatment. I saw the mechanism of the problem as circulatory in nature with poor blood perfusion into local tissues and blood-brain oxygenation. This was secondary to heavy metals. The improved rate corresponded with the improvement of his fatigue and the shoulder responded with acupuncture, finally resolving along with the return of a normal rate. The listed herbs were combined with materials that supplemented qi and moved blood. The garlic was two caps two times a day - 2 grams total per day. No other food recommendations were made. I didn't see the problem as dietary, but rather as industrial exposure, so I chose to focus on introducing materials that would bind out the metals and not use diet per se.

                      W


                      But, I would like to follow up on the initial discussion... Will, the gentlemen you treated for heavy metal accumulations, what were his complaints and other s/s? To what benefit, in his particular situation, did the heavy metal treatment achieve? Also, could you elaborate on the herbal and dietary treatment... How much garlic per day? With what other foods did you recommend? What were the associated herbs that you used in his formulas?

                      On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Colby Hartsell <colbyhartsell@...> wrote:

                      Personally I find the direction this discussion has taken to be of importance. My contention is the more self awareness brought to our ontological and epistemological positions and assumptions the more enriched or day to day and clinical experiences become. Moreover, in the clinic, if we are able to access a pluralistic resourcefulness then we are able to maneuver with in the clinical situation with greater ease and benefit - being able to meet the patient in their own biases, speak in their language, and then if necessary perhaps entice other possibilities. In this regard, our own assumptions, biases, leanings, etc. be they self determined or total consequences of culture need to be self aware. Only then are we able to potential shift gears and perceive differently. Again, I believe this enriches the day to day of our existence, but also benefits our clinical experience.
                       
                      So, cheers to the philosophical wax we've entered.
                       
                      But, I would like to follow up on the initial discussion... Will, the gentlemen you treated for heavy metal accumulations, what were his complaints and other s/s? To what benefit, in his particular situation, did the heavy metal treatment achieve? Also, could you elaborate on the herbal and dietary treatment... How much garlic per day? With what other foods did you recommend? What were the associated herbs that you used in his formulas? 
                       
                      Thanks,
                      Colby

                      William Morris <wmorris33@...> wrote:

                      For a little bit about where I am coming from in the perspectival domain:


                      Radical constructivism

                      Ernst von Glasersfeld is a prominent proponent of radical constructivism, which claims that knowledge is the self-organized cognitive process of the human brain. That is, the process of constructing knowledge regulates itself, and since knowledge is a construct rather than a compilation of empirical data, it is impossible to know the extent to which knowledge reflects an ontological reality.
                      See also: Francisco Varela, Humberto Maturana, and Heinz von Foerster
                      In other words - what are we trying to prove?

                      Will

                      On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 8:26 AM, dan johnson <flyfunktionable@...> wrote:
                      thank you will,

                      you da man


                      dan


                      William Morris <wmorris33@...> wrote:
                      Hi Dan -

                      A distortion in the trajectory of the radial artery has a number of possible interpretations. A question at this point could be, which paradigmatic view is appropriate for the problem at hand? I call this a metaparadigmatic view. Such a perspective requires knowledge of pertinent interpretations of the phenomena. In this case, we will consider the distortion in the radial aspect of the pulse in the right distal-1st-cun position.

                      A radial distortion in the right distal position has three possible interpretations that are discussed in what I call the Neoclassical tradition. Neoclassical pulse diagnosis involves in part, a reconstruction that I have made of the works from Wang Shu He and the Su Wen Chapter Four. The publication of these interpretations of the literature are available at www.pulsediagnosis.com and the original publications may be found at acupuncturetoday.com. The Menghe-Ding tradition as communicated by Shen and Hammer have no published interpretation for radial distortions in the right distal position.
                      Repeating Korzybky's message, the map is not the territory. The starting point for pulse diagnosis is when the clinician draws distinctions in order to direct the clinical gaze. The core knowledges of Chinese medicine involve pattern discrimination. As a pattern begins to emerge, then certain pulse models may be selected in order to investigate the processes and systems that are making themselves apparent during the course of clinical inquiry. This is a practical approach for a busy clinician. However, collecting and analyzing all available pulse information is possible and can be useful, especially in complex case scenarios. 
                      Radial Distortion of the Right Distal Position
                      Radial distortions in the right distal position may be interpreted as tai yang, metal imbalance or a yang wei mai. If the pulse in the right distal position extends in the radial region, one must rule out stagnation of qi and blood in the sinews of the tai yang urinary bladder by palpating the channel or inquiring as to muscoluoskeletal symptoms along the trajectories of both the arm and leg tai yang. Rule out yang wei by examination of the proximal pulse position, look for an ulnar displacement there. The metal imbalance within fire can be ruled out by therapy, if one opens the tai yang and there is no change, check the metal point on either the lung or large intestine vessels (Lu11, LI1).
                      Repletion-Depletion                                                                                                                                                             &nb sp;                                 As for repletion and depletion in the six vessels, this is another interesting conversation. The distortions in the radial artery often provide insufficient information to determine repletion and depletion status. However, if they do, then great. But, caution, such a reductionist consideration can fail to capture the nuances of human reality.
                      Like you, I prefer to palpate the channels. In fact many times there are both repletions and depletions in chronic conditions. This is not merely true for the five agents, but the zang fu, the channels: and curiously enough, within points. Therefore one may use a supplementing method in one area of the channel and disperse another. Further, one may supplement at one depth of a point and disperse a another.

                      In Summary
                      The presence of a radial distortion does not usually provide data about repletion and depletion. Further, the complexities and paradoxes of life usually present with both depletion and repletion. Treat what you palpate.
                       
                      Will

                      On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 4:04 PM, dan johnson <flyfunktionable@...> wrote:
                      when feeling the pulse, its trajectory should be contained within the intended pathway of the vessel through the cun, gun, and chi.  if the vessel extends radially or ulnarly from those positions it may be indicative of a six channel pathology.

                      once this pathology is noted is the next step to determine whether the channel involved is in the state of excess or deficient?  for example, if feeling the right cun position,  if the pulse is felt to extend towards the radial border, we then assign that sensation the name of tai yang.  does the assigned meaning to this correlate to either excess or deficiency, or does it simply reveal meridian compensation (as in the manifestation of extra vessel pulses)

                      if the assigned meaning is to ascribe vessel compensation, i would then think that manual or energetic palpation of the indicated meridian along with further derived diagnositic information would lead to conclusion of either excess or deficiency within the meridian.  

                      continuing this thought, assuming prior thoughts are correct, with pulses indicating multiple vessel involvement, interesting patterns could be reveals between compensated vessels according to bie jing, biao li and chinese clock relationships.


                      Would anyone care to offer feedback, additions,and or corrections to my understanding???

                      forever growing,


                      Daniel Johnson



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                      --
                      Warmly,

                      Will


                      William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc
                      http://theccrt.com/
                      http://www.aoma.edu/
                      http://www.pulsediagnosis.com/

                      When individuals come together with a shared intention, in a conducive environment, something mysterious can come into being, with capacities and intelligences that far transcend those of the individuals involved.


                      Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.



                      --
                      Warmly,

                      Will


                      William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc
                      http://theccrt.com/
                      http://www.aoma.edu/
                      http://www.pulsediagnosis.com/

                      When individuals come together with a shared intention, in a conducive environment, something mysterious can come into being, with capacities and intelligences that far transcend those of the individuals involved.


                      Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.



                      --
                      Warmly,

                      Will


                      William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc
                      http://theccrt.com/
                      http://www.aoma.edu/
                      http://www.pulsediagnosis.com/

                      When individuals come together with a shared intention, in a conducive environment, something mysterious can come into being, with capacities and intelligences that far transcend those of the individuals involved.
                    • diane johnson
                      Dan, You ROCK! That is soooo true! Thanks for the awareness my friend. Good philosophy to live by. Like a Tai Chi approach... :-) What ever shows up is
                      Message 10 of 23 , Mar 2, 2008
                        Dan, You ROCK!  That is soooo true!  Thanks for the awareness my friend.  Good philosophy to live by.  Like a Tai Chi approach... :-)  What ever shows up is what it is.
                        Diane

                        dan johnson <flyfunktionable@...> wrote:
                        i personally do not believe the attitude of proving things is beneficial to myself or my clients.   proving tends to initiate a attitude of force.  here power struggles are created, leading to enhanced separation between myself and my surroundings.  (entering into a dualistic approach)  this makes certain resources more difficult to access

                        if instead of proving things, you can approach with the attitude of acknowledgement or noticing, the power struggle is bypassed and i can keep myself in harmony with the surroundings.  (maintain a  monistic approach) this allows greater access to everything

                        the attitude of what you are right now is okay, leads to greater presence and substantial power can be derived from the situation.

                        i have been exploring linguistical shifts like the one cited above and have noticed a significant enhancement of my life and surroundings when playing within the realm of power.


                        good book to read is by david hawkins  "power verse force"

                        dan

                        Steveacu1@AOL. com wrote:

                        In a message dated 3/1/08 10:22:56 AM, wmorris33@gmail. com writes:


                        In other words - what are we trying to prove?



                        Isn't that the whole question?

                        Steve Schachter



                        ************ **
                        Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
                        (http://living. aol.com/video/ how-to-please- your-picky- eater/rachel- campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID= aolcmp0030000000 2598)


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                      • Julia Pinkham
                        I think we call a cold pulse tight and a heat pulse rapid and a normal pulse moderate Hope that helps! Subjectively, Julia ... From: dan johnson
                        Message 11 of 23 , Mar 2, 2008

                          I think we call a cold pulse "tight" and a heat pulse "rapid" and a normal pulse "moderate"

                          Hope that helps!

                          Subjectively,

                          Julia



                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: dan johnson <flyfunktionable@...>
                          To: PulseDiagnosis@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 2:57:54 PM
                          Subject: [PulseDiagnosis] thermal nature of pulse

                          when taking pulses you can assess the thermal nature of the qualities present

                          cold-  manifests with a side to side vibratory quality

                          heat- will manifest by the wave consistently hitting at the same spot when felt.

                          my understanding is that these conditions are more clinically important in exterior invasions and most often felt in the right distal position.

                          my questions are:

                          will the pulse quality always either be hot or cold,  do in between states exist?  does this establish a thermal continium?

                          is there a normal, healthy thermal condition of the pulse?

                          is there a traditional descriptive term for a cold pulse?  and the heat pulse?

                          thank you all


                          Daniel Johnson



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                        • Susanna Horton
                          Cold pulse can also be slow. -Susanna On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 6:31 PM, Julia Pinkham
                          Message 12 of 23 , Mar 2, 2008
                            Cold pulse can also be slow.
                             
                             
                            -Susanna

                            On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 6:31 PM, Julia Pinkham <juliannamorral@...> wrote:

                            I think we call a cold pulse "tight" and a heat pulse "rapid" and a normal pulse "moderate"

                            Hope that helps!

                            Subjectively,

                            Julia



                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: dan johnson <flyfunktionable@...>
                            To: PulseDiagnosis@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 2:57:54 PM
                            Subject: [PulseDiagnosis] thermal nature of pulse

                            when taking pulses you can assess the thermal nature of the qualities present

                            cold-  manifests with a side to side vibratory quality

                            heat- will manifest by the wave consistently hitting at the same spot when felt.

                            my understanding is that these conditions are more clinically important in exterior invasions and most often felt in the right distal position.

                            my questions are:

                            will the pulse quality always either be hot or cold,  do in between states exist?  does this establish a thermal continium?

                            is there a normal, healthy thermal condition of the pulse?

                            is there a traditional descriptive term for a cold pulse?  and the heat pulse?

                            thank you all


                            Daniel Johnson



                            Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.




                            Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.


                          • dan johnson
                            colby you wrote this: Moreover, in the clinic, if we are able to access a pluralistic resourcefulness then we are able to maneuver with in the clinical
                            Message 13 of 23 , Mar 2, 2008
                              colby you wrote this:
                               Moreover, in the clinic, if we are able to access a pluralistic resourcefulness then we are able to maneuver with in the clinical situation with greater ease and benefit - being able to meet the patient in their own biases, speak in their language, and then if necessary perhaps entice other possibilities.

                              this is well said, 
                              by consciously calibrating our behavior, language, and mental heuristics towards a state of confluence with our patients we gain a much deeper understanding of their state of being, as well as the personal experience of deconstructing ones own state of existence.  this is the highest level of rapport.  Like attracts like, 

                              meeting our patients on the same playing field can lead to tremendous possibilities.  consciously allowing a willingness to understand how it is to exist as another (in this case our client), matching their behaviors, thought processes, and attitudes, large amounts of information can be revealed to myself about their condition.  from here identification of "blocks" or habitual patterns can be noted and brought to their attention.  Further more, through behavioral modeling, mirroring, and entrainment while acting at the highest level of ethical judgment and moral integrity, if i the practitioner is willing to be like the client, if the practitioner begins to alter their personal behavior, cognition, and process with the intention of breaking free from those previously acknowledged blocks or patterns modeling new existence beyond the clients normal functioning state ,  then the practitioner has facilitated a way out of those patterns, expanding state and allowing for  greater potential and flexibility.

                              In the past year i have been studying neurolinguistical  programming presented thru the coyote teachings of the medicine wheel.  the native american medicine wheel provides a method of exploring what it is to be a human being that is capable of reflecting all potential states.  balance is derived and potential is teased out of life.  this system can be correlated with the five elemental cosmological sequence bring us back to pulse content with the application of the compass model.

                              how about this:
                              while using the system of spirits, shen diagnosis we are able to have a glimpse of how the individual is processing thru life.  what aspects of their shen are active, inactive, blocked, or compensating.   with this diagnostic information , the willing practitioner may enter into a state of rapport and then model out new patterns for which the clients shen may follow.  this seems to follow suit with the treatment methods using the 7 emotions.  it also appears to be in line  with  tao te ching  methods of leadership, leading while not leading.
                              this thought just came to me,  any takers?


                              dan


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                            • granadahotel
                              Here s a passage from the English translation of de Morant s book (pg 92). He s actually quoting a Chinese work, the Da Cheng I think. We often hear or read
                              Message 14 of 23 , Mar 4, 2008
                                Here's a passage from the English translation of de Morant's book (pg
                                92). He's actually quoting a Chinese work, the Da Cheng I think. We
                                often hear or read about how the emotions disrupt qi, but this is the
                                only place I've read how to use the emotions to treat emotions.

                                Joy injures the heart & through it the lungs. Its antedote is fear.
                                Discontent damages the liver and through it the spleen-pancreas. Its
                                antidote is sadness. Sadness damages the lungs and through them the
                                liver and the heart. Its antidote is joy. Emotional agitation damages
                                the heart and shen. Its antidote is habit. Fear damages the kidneys
                                and through them the heart. Its antidote is obsession
                                (¿pensiveness?). Obsession damages the spleen pancreaseand through it
                                the kidneys. When there is excessive obsession, the energy of the
                                spleen pancrease becomes exhausted. Its antidote is discontent.
                                Lassitude damages the sexal energy.

                                There is no antidote offered for lassitude. "Not tonight, honey."
                                Sorry.

                                Marc

                                > how about this:
                                > while using the system of spirits, shen diagnosis we are able to
                                have a glimpse of how the individual is processing thru life. what
                                aspects of their shen are active, inactive, blocked, or
                                compensating. with this diagnostic information , the willing
                                practitioner may enter into a state of rapport and then model out new
                                patterns for which the clients shen may follow. this seems to follow
                                suit with the treatment methods using the 7 emotions. it also
                                appears to be in line with tao te ching methods of leadership,
                                leading while not leading.
                                > this thought just came to me, any takers?
                                >
                                >
                                > dan
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ---------------------------------
                                > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!
                                Search.
                                >
                              • Colby Hartsell
                                Dan, I think it is possible with pluralistic resourcefulness (in regards to epistemological and ontological positions) for a practitioner to gain access to
                                Message 15 of 23 , Mar 4, 2008
                                  Dan,
                                   
                                  I think it is possible with pluralistic resourcefulness (in regards to epistemological and ontological positions) for a practitioner to gain access to levels of consciousness at play inside a patient; thus enabling a practitioner to therapeutically intervene for the purposes of mental-emotional or psycho-spiritual well being. However, it seems to me that this alchemical intention would require conscious willingness on the part of the patient. Its like being initiated in a Buddhist transmission ceremony - the receiver is aware of the intended transmission which ultimately is intended to en-lighten and transform conscious awareness. 
                                   
                                  However, in my original post I personally wasn't referring to such deep levels of interpersonal transformation engaged between client and practitioner. Personally, I lean away from playing a role I tend to view as guru-istic. In my experience I have found that it invites exactly what Lonny Jerret beats his head against, which is highly emotional, attached, neurotic clients who in L"J's case have lots of disposable income... but, perhaps your experience is/will be different... I digress in my somewhat cynically seasoned opinions...
                                   
                                  What I was referring to in the original post, is the potential to one, pragmatically draw upon the most useful perspective that most efficiently and expediently benefits a client's imbalance. This might mean I view a scenario through zang-fu concepts, or through channel pathology, or through skeletal-muscular-fascial-mechanical disorders, or as neurovascular or endogenous hormonal imbalances, etc. This might mean that, as Will walks and talks, I draw from a multitude of pulse perspectives choosing the ones applicable to the clinical situation. Two, through pluralistic resourcefulness, I might encourage a patient to re-image their dis-eased condition. This I've learned from studying Mark Seem. Perhaps one patient will benefit from perceiving their disorder through naturalistic metaphors that describe disorders in psyche and soma as imbalances between rarefied substances and metaphysical elements of earth, metal, water, wood, and fire. However, assessing another patient who is already inclined to view their experience through (lets say) new age and ethereal concepts, I might instead purposely describe their disorder using empirical-scientific concepts such as our modern biomedical perspectives.
                                   
                                  In the latter mentioned scenerio I'm "enticing a different perspective", which is what I intended to describe in my original post.
                                   
                                  c


                                  dan johnson <flyfunktionable@...> wrote:

                                  colby you wrote this:
                                   Moreover, in the clinic, if we are able to access a pluralistic resourcefulness then we are able to maneuver with in the clinical situation with greater ease and benefit - being able to meet the patient in their own biases, speak in their language, and then if necessary perhaps entice other possibilities.

                                  this is well said, 
                                  by consciously calibrating our behavior, language, and mental heuristics towards a state of confluence with our patients we gain a much deeper understanding of their state of being, as well as the personal experience of deconstructing ones own state of existence.  this is the highest level of rapport.  Like attracts like, 

                                  meeting our patients on the same playing field can lead to tremendous possibilities.  consciously allowing a willingness to understand how it is to exist as another (in this case our client), matching their behaviors, thought processes, and attitudes, large amounts of information can be revealed to myself about their condition.  from here identification of "blocks" or habitual patterns can be noted and brought to their attention.  Further more, through behavioral modeling, mirroring, and entrainment while acting at the highest level of ethical judgment and moral integrity, if i the practitioner is willing to be like the client, if the practitioner begins to alter their personal behavior, cognition, and process with the intention of breaking free from those previously acknowledged blocks or patterns modeling new existence beyond the clients normal functioning state ,  then the practitioner has facilitated a way out of those patterns, expanding state and allowing for  greater potential and flexibility.

                                  In the past year i have been studying neurolinguistical  programming presented thru the coyote teachings of the medicine wheel.  the native american medicine wheel provides a method of exploring what it is to be a human being that is capable of reflecting all potential states.  balance is derived and potential is teased out of life.  this system can be correlated with the five elemental cosmological sequence bring us back to pulse content with the application of the compass model.

                                  how about this:
                                  while using the system of spirits, shen diagnosis we are able to have a glimpse of how the individual is processing thru life.  what aspects of their shen are active, inactive, blocked, or compensating.   with this diagnostic information , the willing practitioner may enter into a state of rapport and then model out new patterns for which the clients shen may follow.  this seems to follow suit with the treatment methods using the 7 emotions.  it also appears to be in line  with  tao te ching  methods of leadership, leading while not leading.
                                  this thought just came to me,  any takers?


                                  dan


                                  Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.


                                  Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                                • William Morris
                                  Hi Colby - Since you raise epistemology and ontology - we might discuss what that means in the practice of Chinese medicine in general and pulse diagnosis in
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Mar 5, 2008
                                    Hi Colby -

                                    Since you raise epistemology and ontology - we might discuss what that means in the practice of Chinese medicine in general and pulse diagnosis in particular.

                                    Epistemology

                                    Core epistemologies of Chinese medicine involve pattern discrimination. As a pattern begins to emerge, then certain pulse models are selected in order to investigate the processes and systems that are making themselves apparent during the course of clinical inquiry.

                                    At the level of the radial artery with all of its complex expressions, knowing the world of the patient is achieved through distinguishing one pattern from another. Choices are made in terms of boundaries. These lines are drawn in terms of which systems are to be observed and what features of the pulse are to be scrutinized. Intentionality becomes in this instant, the process of defining what is to be observed.   

                                    The starting point for pulse diagnosis is when the clinician draws distinctions in order to direct the clinical gaze.  The descriptions of what is felt and seen are distinguished from other multitudes of data that arrive during the clinical interaction.

                                    Recursion occurs as a feedback loop, modifying decisions about where the gaze is directed. This becomes important in practice when a therapeutic intervention is engaged; the pulse is again evaluated to understand the nature and quality of the impact.

                                    This discriminating act of determining the events under observation be they physical boundaries, functional groupings, conceptual categorization creates a multitude of possible distinctions. In pulse diagnosis, the classical cannons, family traditions and contemporary biomedicalized practices provide scope limitations so the of practice to a manageable field of possibilities.

                                    Ontology

                                    Ontology has one basic question: "What exists?" In my work, this is extended to who we are, our original qi – source qi. In Chinese medicine, there are a priori statements of fact. These become functional ontological units in practice that are used for the purposes of a rational approach to clinical analyses.

                                    Individual Ontogenetic Conceptions

                                    Ontology has one basic question: "What exists?" In my work, this is extended to who we are, our original qi – source qi – remains part of the clinical conversation. The practices elucidated in the Nei Jing chapter.

                                    In a theoretical process, ontogeny involves the state of the field. It is a snap shot of the realities that are a summation of the bodies of work. In Chinese medicine, there are a priori statements of fact. These become functional ontological units in practice that are used for the purposes of a rational approach to clinical analyses.

                                    Ontogeny within the Domain

                                    Bodily Constitution

                                    This ontological perspective involves the body shape. At the level of bodily constitution, we speak of whether the individual is strong medium or weak. The models of yin and yang are often used. The basic dialectics make a division of big yang, little yang, big yin and little yin. These divisions have morphogenetic tendencies – here we are speaking of body shape. The big yang is rather strong and muscular – a large form. The tai yin is large but soft body form. The shao yang body form is medium build and muscular while the shao yin bodily form is rather small.

                                    Spiritual Constitution

                                    Spiritual Constitution involves the nature of self at the soul level. The shen describe this aspect of being. The Chinese often utilize the term jing-shen which might be considered as a body form providing a basis for consciousness. The notion of self at this level can be conceived as both plural and singular. The singular notion of shen resides in the heart and is also supported foundationally by the blood.  The pluralistic shen retain domicile within the viscera. These include the lungs for the po, which is a component of shen that experiences the senses – it is an incarnating force. Then there is the hun residing in the liver, it is an aspect of the shen that is a non-corporeal soul and represents an urge towards transcendence. The aspect of the shen residing within the kidneys is called the zhi, and it is correlated with intentionality or will. The last domicile of the shen is the spleen which provides a home for the yi. One way to translate the term yi involves a consciousness of possibilities.   

                                    Acquired Constitution

                                    This constitutional feature is acquired in the context of life style and events. It is reasonable to argue that the spiritual and bodily constitutions are part of the recursive loop that attracts events and actions that affect the status of the human in any of the dimensions of experience. As these events become fixed into the form and consciousness, they become part of the form. Reich described this process in part as character armoring.

                                    The individual in response to the collective and individual events of there life forms psychological and structural defenses. While these strategies enable survival at the moment, the individual often continues to employ them long after they are gone. In the case of addictions, even to the point of death.

                                    Constitution as a Mode

                                    Here we may speak of constitution in terms of what the Chinese call the 'six pathogens.' These include wind, damp, cold, heat, summer heat and dryness. In this scenario, we are speaking of morphogenetic tendencies that may be described as patterns that connect in terms of the descriptions used for each pathogen. For the windy person, we find an individual that is relatively changeable and easily influenced by the ecosystems where they find themselves. There may be hypersensitivity such as in the Princess and the Pea.  The damp person may exhibit heightened collection of interstitial fluids, the skin may feel damp and when this dampness affects consciousness, there can be unclear thought.

                                    Will


                                    On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Colby Hartsell <colbyhartsell@...> wrote:

                                    Dan,
                                     
                                    I think it is possible with pluralistic resourcefulness (in regards to epistemological and ontological positions) for a practitioner to gain access to levels of consciousness at play inside a patient; thus enabling a practitioner to therapeutically intervene for the purposes of mental-emotional or psycho-spiritual well being. However, it seems to me that this alchemical intention would require conscious willingness on the part of the patient. Its like being initiated in a Buddhist transmission ceremony - the receiver is aware of the intended transmission which ultimately is intended to en-lighten and transform conscious awareness. 
                                     
                                    However, in my original post I personally wasn't referring to such deep levels of interpersonal transformation engaged between client and practitioner. Personally, I lean away from playing a role I tend to view as guru-istic. In my experience I have found that it invites exactly what Lonny Jerret beats his head against, which is highly emotional, attached, neurotic clients who in L"J's case have lots of disposable income... but, perhaps your experience is/will be different... I digress in my somewhat cynically seasoned opinions...
                                     
                                    What I was referring to in the original post, is the potential to one, pragmatically draw upon the most useful perspective that most efficiently and expediently benefits a client's imbalance. This might mean I view a scenario through zang-fu concepts, or through channel pathology, or through skeletal-muscular-fascial-mechanical disorders, or as neurovascular or endogenous hormonal imbalances, etc. This might mean that, as Will walks and talks, I draw from a multitude of pulse perspectives choosing the ones applicable to the clinical situation. Two, through pluralistic resourcefulness, I might encourage a patient to re-image their dis-eased condition. This I've learned from studying Mark Seem. Perhaps one patient will benefit from perceiving their disorder through naturalistic metaphors that describe disorders in psyche and soma as imbalances between rarefied substances and metaphysical elements of earth, metal, water, wood, and fire. However, assessing another patient who is already inclined to view their experience through (lets say) new age and ethereal concepts, I might instead purposely describe their disorder using empirical-scientific concepts such as our modern biomedical perspectives.
                                     
                                    In the latter mentioned scenerio I'm "enticing a different perspective", which is what I intended to describe in my original post.
                                     
                                    c


                                    dan johnson <flyfunktionable@...> wrote:

                                    colby you wrote this:
                                     Moreover, in the clinic, if we are able to access a pluralistic resourcefulness then we are able to maneuver with in the clinical situation with greater ease and benefit - being able to meet the patient in their own biases, speak in their language, and then if necessary perhaps entice other possibilities.

                                    this is well said, 
                                    by consciously calibrating our behavior, language, and mental heuristics towards a state of confluence with our patients we gain a much deeper understanding of their state of being, as well as the personal experience of deconstructing ones own state of existence.  this is the highest level of rapport.  Like attracts like, 

                                    meeting our patients on the same playing field can lead to tremendous possibilities.  consciously allowing a willingness to understand how it is to exist as another (in this case our client), matching their behaviors, thought processes, and attitudes, large amounts of information can be revealed to myself about their condition.  from here identification of "blocks" or habitual patterns can be noted and brought to their attention.  Further more, through behavioral modeling, mirroring, and entrainment while acting at the highest level of ethical judgment and moral integrity, if i the practitioner is willing to be like the client, if the practitioner begins to alter their personal behavior, cognition, and process with the intention of breaking free from those previously acknowledged blocks or patterns modeling new existence beyond the clients normal functioning state ,  then the practitioner has facilitated a way out of those patterns, expanding state and allowing for  greater potential and flexibility.

                                    In the past year i have been studying neurolinguistical  programming presented thru the coyote teachings of the medicine wheel.  the native american medicine wheel provides a method of exploring what it is to be a human being that is capable of reflecting all potential states.  balance is derived and potential is teased out of life.  this system can be correlated with the five elemental cosmological sequence bring us back to pulse content with the application of the compass model.

                                    how about this:
                                    while using the system of spirits, shen diagnosis we are able to have a glimpse of how the individual is processing thru life.  what aspects of their shen are active, inactive, blocked, or compensating.   with this diagnostic information , the willing practitioner may enter into a state of rapport and then model out new patterns for which the clients shen may follow.  this seems to follow suit with the treatment methods using the 7 emotions.  it also appears to be in line  with  tao te ching  methods of leadership, leading while not leading.
                                    this thought just came to me,  any takers?


                                    dan


                                    Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.


                                    Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.



                                    --
                                    Warmly,

                                    Will


                                    William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc
                                    http://theccrt.com/
                                    http://www.aoma.edu/
                                    http://www.pulsediagnosis.com/

                                    When individuals come together with a shared intention, in a conducive environment, something mysterious can come into being, with capacities and intelligences that far transcend those of the individuals involved.
                                  • Colby Hartsell
                                    Will, Did we just get a little piece of what s to come in your developing book? What I get from reading your post is a basic yet important point: as
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Mar 5, 2008
                                      Will,
                                       
                                      Did we just get a little piece of what's to come in your developing book?
                                       
                                      What I get from reading your post is a basic yet important point: as practitioners of TCM (epistemology) we can discern body-mind complexes through understanding the various  categorical expressions they can potentially take (as determined by TCM ontology).  By understanding TCM a priori concepts and categories we can reliably and usefully know what (can/does) exists in a clinical situation, and therefore maneuver diagnostically and therapeutically according to the categorical construct we're pragmatically and necessarily brought into, case by case. Its interesting to me how systems of knowledge self sustain, i.e. the categories and concepts determine the data of appearance, and then the impressions made from those appearances both guide further examination, and lastly the treatment.
                                       
                                      ...Referring to our earlier discussions, in this clinical process, it seems to me I'm not trying to prove anything, but rather, achieve a useful diagnosis that yields a reliable treatment. You know, I'm not making a diagnosis of (lets say) water deficiency with fire excess so that after I get a therapeutic result I can then conclude/prove that since TCM is based on naturalistic science from traditional China that naturalistic science from traditional China is therefore valid. This of course would be an invalid argument, but in referring to your (perhaps rhetorical) question "what are we trying to prove?", the argument I pose is that drawing from an epistemological method as opposed to any other doesn't imply that we're trying to prove anything about that method or disprove anything about other methods.  
                                       
                                      When dealing with matters of epistemology and ontology it seems to me, in regards to the categories of Spiritual Constitutions, that we are dealing fundamentally with the relationship between the po, hun, and yi. That is, the realm of appearance and our mental inner realm (where our thoughts arise, and concepts develop, where we dream, and in ancient circles - where our ancestors reside). Furthermore, a reconciliation between these realms of appearance and mind is what brings us to knowledge and experience of reality. I.e. epistemology and ontology.
                                       
                                      I am curious where the concept "strange attractor" fits in here. You presented this concept briefly last year at the Southwest Symposium when introducing your discussion of the Shang Hun Lun? Perhaps this is similar to your statement made below: "It is reasonable to argue that the spiritual and bodily constitutions are part of the recursive loop that attracts events and actions that affect the status of the human in any of the dimensions of experience." If you are interested in elaborating on the concept of the strange attractor, if it fits in with this discussion or not, etc., I'm certainly curious.
                                       
                                      c
                                       
                                       
                                      William Morris <wmorris33@...> wrote:
                                      Hi Colby -

                                      Since you raise epistemology and ontology - we might discuss what that means in the practice of Chinese medicine in general and pulse diagnosis in particular.

                                      Epistemology
                                      Core epistemologies of Chinese medicine involve pattern discrimination. As a pattern begins to emerge, then certain pulse models are selected in order to investigate the processes and systems that are making themselves apparent during the course of clinical inquiry.
                                      At the level of the radial artery with all of its complex expressions, knowing the world of the patient is achieved through distinguishing one pattern from another. Choices are made in terms of boundaries. These lines are drawn in terms of which systems are to be observed and what features of the pulse are to be scrutinized. Intentionality becomes in this instant, the process of defining what is to be observed.   
                                      The starting point for pulse diagnosis is when the clinician draws distinctions in order to direct the clinical gaze.  The descriptions of what is felt and seen are distinguished from other multitudes of data that arrive during the clinical interaction.
                                      Recursion occurs as a feedback loop, modifying decisions about where the gaze is directed. This becomes important in practice when a therapeutic intervention is engaged; the pulse is again evaluated to understand the nature and quality of the impact.
                                      This discriminating act of determining the events under observation be they physical boundaries, functional groupings, conceptual categorization creates a multitude of possible distinctions. In pulse diagnosis, the classical cannons, family traditions and contemporary biomedicalized practices provide scope limitations so the of practice to a manageable field of possibilities.
                                      Ontology
                                      Ontology has one basic question: "What exists?" In my work, this is extended to who we are, our original qi – source qi. In Chinese medicine, there are a priori statements of fact. These become functional ontological units in practice that are used for the purposes of a rational approach to clinical analyses.
                                      Individual Ontogenetic Conceptions
                                      Ontology has one basic question: "What exists?" In my work, this is extended to who we are, our original qi – source qi – remains part of the clinical conversation. The practices elucidated in the Nei Jing chapter.
                                      In a theoretical process, ontogeny involves the state of the field. It is a snap shot of the realities that are a summation of the bodies of work. In Chinese medicine, there are a priori statements of fact. These become functional ontological units in practice that are used for the purposes of a rational approach to clinical analyses.
                                      Ontogeny within the Domain
                                      Bodily Constitution
                                      This ontological perspective involves the body shape. At the level of bodily constitution, we speak of whether the individual is strong medium or weak. The models of yin and yang are often used. The basic dialectics make a division of big yang, little yang, big yin and little yin. These divisions have morphogenetic tendencies – here we are speaking of body shape. The big yang is rather strong and muscular – a large form. The tai yin is large but soft body form. The shao yang body form is medium build and muscular while the shao yin bodily form is rather small.
                                      Spiritual Constitution
                                      Spiritual Constitution involves the nature of self at the soul level. The shen describe this aspect of being. The Chinese often utilize the term jing-shen which might be considered as a body form providing a basis for consciousness. The notion of self at this level can be conceived as both plural and singular. The singular notion of shen resides in the heart and is also supported foundationally by the blood.  The pluralistic shen retain domicile within the viscera. These include the lungs for the po, which is a component of shen that experiences the senses – it is an incarnating force. Then there is the hun residing in the liver, it is an aspect of the shen that is a non-corporeal soul and represents an urge towards transcendence. The aspect of the shen residing within the kidneys is called the zhi, and it is correlated with intentionality or will. The last domicile of the shen is the spleen which provides a home for the yi. One way to translate the term yi involves a consciousness of possibilities.   
                                      Acquired Constitution
                                      This constitutional feature is acquired in the context of life style and events. It is reasonable to argue that the spiritual and bodily constitutions are part of the recursive loop that attracts events and actions that affect the status of the human in any of the dimensions of experience. As these events become fixed into the form and consciousness, they become part of the form. Reich described this process in part as character armoring.
                                      The individual in response to the collective and individual events of there life forms psychological and structural defenses. While these strategies enable survival at the moment, the individual often continues to employ them long after they are gone. In the case of addictions, even to the point of death.
                                      Constitution as a Mode
                                      Here we may speak of constitution in terms of what the Chinese call the 'six pathogens.' These include wind, damp, cold, heat, summer heat and dryness. In this scenario, we are speaking of morphogenetic tendencies that may be described as patterns that connect in terms of the descriptions used for each pathogen. For the windy person, we find an individual that is relatively changeable and easily influenced by the ecosystems where they find themselves. There may be hypersensitivity such as in the Princess and the Pea.  The damp person may exhibit heightened collection of interstitial fluids, the skin may feel damp and when this dampness affects consciousness, there can be unclear thought.
                                      Will

                                      On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Colby Hartsell <colbyhartsell@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                      Dan,
                                       
                                      I think it is possible with pluralistic resourcefulness (in regards to epistemological and ontological positions) for a practitioner to gain access to levels of consciousness at play inside a patient; thus enabling a practitioner to therapeutically intervene for the purposes of mental-emotional or psycho-spiritual well being. However, it seems to me that this alchemical intention would require conscious willingness on the part of the patient. Its like being initiated in a Buddhist transmission ceremony - the receiver is aware of the intended transmission which ultimately is intended to en-lighten and transform conscious awareness. 
                                       
                                      However, in my original post I personally wasn't referring to such deep levels of interpersonal transformation engaged between client and practitioner. Personally, I lean away from playing a role I tend to view as guru-istic. In my experience I have found that it invites exactly what Lonny Jerret beats his head against, which is highly emotional, attached, neurotic clients who in L"J's case have lots of disposable income... but, perhaps your experience is/will be different... I digress in my somewhat cynically seasoned opinions...
                                       
                                      What I was referring to in the original post, is the potential to one, pragmatically draw upon the most useful perspective that most efficiently and expediently benefits a client's imbalance. This might mean I view a scenario through zang-fu concepts, or through channel pathology, or through skeletal-muscular- fascial-mechanic al disorders, or as neurovascular or endogenous hormonal imbalances, etc. This might mean that, as Will walks and talks, I draw from a multitude of pulse perspectives choosing the ones applicable to the clinical situation. Two, through pluralistic resourcefulness, I might encourage a patient to re-image their dis-eased condition. This I've learned from studying Mark Seem. Perhaps one patient will benefit from perceiving their disorder through naturalistic metaphors that describe disorders in psyche and soma as imbalances between rarefied substances and metaphysical elements of earth, metal, water, wood, and fire. However, assessing another patient who is already inclined to view their experience through (lets say) new age and ethereal concepts, I might instead purposely describe their disorder using empirical-scientifi c concepts such as our modern biomedical perspectives.
                                       
                                      In the latter mentioned scenerio I'm "enticing a different perspective", which is what I intended to describe in my original post.
                                       
                                      c


                                      dan johnson <flyfunktionable@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                                      colby you wrote this:
                                       Moreover, in the clinic, if we are able to access a pluralistic resourcefulness then we are able to maneuver with in the clinical situation with greater ease and benefit - being able to meet the patient in their own biases, speak in their language, and then if necessary perhaps entice other possibilities.

                                      this is well said, 
                                      by consciously calibrating our behavior, language, and mental heuristics towards a state of confluence with our patients we gain a much deeper understanding of their state of being, as well as the personal experience of deconstructing ones own state of existence.  this is the highest level of rapport.  Like attracts like, 

                                      meeting our patients on the same playing field can lead to tremendous possibilities.  consciously allowing a willingness to understand how it is to exist as another (in this case our client), matching their behaviors, thought processes, and attitudes, large amounts of information can be revealed to myself about their condition.  from here identification of "blocks" or habitual patterns can be noted and brought to their attention.  Further more, through behavioral modeling, mirroring, and entrainment while acting at the highest level of ethical judgment and moral integrity, if i the practitioner is willing to be like the client, if the practitioner begins to alter their personal behavior, cognition, and process with the intention of breaking free from those previously acknowledged blocks or patterns modeling new existence beyond the clients normal functioning state ,  then the practitioner has facilitated a way out of those patterns, expanding state and allowing for  greater potential and flexibility.

                                      In the past year i have been studying neurolinguistical  programming presented thru the coyote teachings of the medicine wheel.  the native american medicine wheel provides a method of exploring what it is to be a human being that is capable of reflecting all potential states.  balance is derived and potential is teased out of life.  this system can be correlated with the five elemental cosmological sequence bring us back to pulse content with the application of the compass model.

                                      how about this:
                                      while using the system of spirits, shen diagnosis we are able to have a glimpse of how the individual is processing thru life.  what aspects of their shen are active, inactive, blocked, or compensating.   with this diagnostic information , the willing practitioner may enter into a state of rapport and then model out new patterns for which the clients shen may follow.  this seems to follow suit with the treatment methods using the 7 emotions.  it also appears to be in line  with  tao te ching  methods of leadership, leading while not leading.
                                      this thought just came to me,  any takers?


                                      dan


                                      Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.


                                      Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.



                                      --
                                      Warmly,

                                      Will


                                      William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc
                                      http://theccrt. com/
                                      http://www.aoma. edu/
                                      http://www.pulsedia gnosis.com/

                                      When individuals come together with a shared intention, in a conducive environment, something mysterious can come into being, with capacities and intelligences that far transcend those of the individuals involved.


                                      Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

                                    • William Morris
                                      Hi Colby - I am not certain if that will be in the book. Categorical organization of data is part of the conversation. Is thought linear or non-linear? In
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Mar 6, 2008
                                        Hi Colby -

                                        I am not certain if that will be in the book. Categorical organization of data is part of the conversation. Is thought linear or non-linear? In other words, do we in a calculated way record data, moving down our data collection sheet? Or, do we place our fingers and have a realization about the patient, subsequently looking for that data bit that substantiates this realization? Or? As far as proof is concerned, I hold that position that all perception is necessarily subjective. That the transmission of sensory data into the central nervous system and the mixing of fields between the practitioner and the patient are entirely subjective. But we seek to attempt to construct some objectivity to the events that are perceived - and labeled. And further, subjectivity is present within the process of selecting that which will be observed.

                                        Strange attractors

                                        The term strange attractor was coined by David Ruelle and Floris Takens to describe the attractor that resulted from a series of bifurcations of a system describing fluid flow. A chaotic attractor is a set of states in a system's state where even if the system is perturbed off the attractor, it eventually returns. Second, and most important, once the system is on the attractor nearby states diverge from each other exponentially fast.

                                        They are not the Greek sense of chaos which is an absolute disorder. Rather, they are deterministic, following a specific and non-random path. Chaotic attractors tend towards order, their often elegant, geometric structures are fixed and unchanging, despite the fact that the trajectories moving within them appear unpredictable. In this sense, the chaotic attractor's geometric shape is the order underlying the apparent chaos. 

                                        Pulse functions in terms of the purkinje fibers firing in cardiac tissue are the function of a form of chaotic attractor. The rest of the vascular network is a fractalating phenomena. This occurs not inly in terms of structure, but also function. Fractals are created by a cross cut of a chaotic attractor.

                                        At the level of consciousness, neural circuits have some recursive tendencies which can become ingrained - a form of samskara, n-gram or what the ancients called ghosts.

                                        Will

                                        On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Colby Hartsell <colbyhartsell@...> wrote:

                                        Will,
                                         
                                        Did we just get a little piece of what's to come in your developing book?
                                         
                                        What I get from reading your post is a basic yet important point: as practitioners of TCM (epistemology) we can discern body-mind complexes through understanding the various  categorical expressions they can potentially take (as determined by TCM ontology).  By understanding TCM a priori concepts and categories we can reliably and usefully know what (can/does) exists in a clinical situation, and therefore maneuver diagnostically and therapeutically according to the categorical construct we're pragmatically and necessarily brought into, case by case. Its interesting to me how systems of knowledge self sustain, i.e. the categories and concepts determine the data of appearance, and then the impressions made from those appearances both guide further examination, and lastly the treatment.
                                         
                                        ...Referring to our earlier discussions, in this clinical process, it seems to me I'm not trying to prove anything, but rather, achieve a useful diagnosis that yields a reliable treatment. You know, I'm not making a diagnosis of (lets say) water deficiency with fire excess so that after I get a therapeutic result I can then conclude/prove that since TCM is based on naturalistic science from traditional China that naturalistic science from traditional China is therefore valid. This of course would be an invalid argument, but in referring to your (perhaps rhetorical) question "what are we trying to prove?", the argument I pose is that drawing from an epistemological method as opposed to any other doesn't imply that we're trying to prove anything about that method or disprove anything about other methods.  
                                         
                                        When dealing with matters of epistemology and ontology it seems to me, in regards to the categories of Spiritual Constitutions, that we are dealing fundamentally with the relationship between the po, hun, and yi. That is, the realm of appearance and our mental inner realm (where our thoughts arise, and concepts develop, where we dream, and in ancient circles - where our ancestors reside). Furthermore, a reconciliation between these realms of appearance and mind is what brings us to knowledge and experience of reality. I.e. epistemology and ontology.
                                         
                                        I am curious where the concept "strange attractor" fits in here. You presented this concept briefly last year at the Southwest Symposium when introducing your discussion of the Shang Hun Lun? Perhaps this is similar to your statement made below: "It is reasonable to argue that the spiritual and bodily constitutions are part of the recursive loop that attracts events and actions that affect the status of the human in any of the dimensions of experience." If you are interested in elaborating on the concept of the strange attractor, if it fits in with this discussion or not, etc., I'm certainly curious.
                                         
                                        c
                                         
                                         
                                        William Morris <wmorris33@...> wrote:
                                        Hi Colby -

                                        Since you raise epistemology and ontology - we might discuss what that means in the practice of Chinese medicine in general and pulse diagnosis in particular.

                                        Epistemology
                                        Core epistemologies of Chinese medicine involve pattern discrimination. As a pattern begins to emerge, then certain pulse models are selected in order to investigate the processes and systems that are making themselves apparent during the course of clinical inquiry.
                                        At the level of the radial artery with all of its complex expressions, knowing the world of the patient is achieved through distinguishing one pattern from another. Choices are made in terms of boundaries. These lines are drawn in terms of which systems are to be observed and what features of the pulse are to be scrutinized. Intentionality becomes in this instant, the process of defining what is to be observed.   
                                        The starting point for pulse diagnosis is when the clinician draws distinctions in order to direct the clinical gaze.  The descriptions of what is felt and seen are distinguished from other multitudes of data that arrive during the clinical interaction.
                                        Recursion occurs as a feedback loop, modifying decisions about where the gaze is directed. This becomes important in practice when a therapeutic intervention is engaged; the pulse is again evaluated to understand the nature and quality of the impact.
                                        This discriminating act of determining the events under observation be they physical boundaries, functional groupings, conceptual categorization creates a multitude of possible distinctions. In pulse diagnosis, the classical cannons, family traditions and contemporary biomedicalized practices provide scope limitations so the of practice to a manageable field of possibilities.
                                        Ontology
                                        Ontology has one basic question: "What exists?" In my work, this is extended to who we are, our original qi – source qi. In Chinese medicine, there are a priori statements of fact. These become functional ontological units in practice that are used for the purposes of a rational approach to clinical analyses.
                                        Individual Ontogenetic Conceptions
                                        Ontology has one basic question: "What exists?" In my work, this is extended to who we are, our original qi – source qi – remains part of the clinical conversation. The practices elucidated in the Nei Jing chapter.
                                        In a theoretical process, ontogeny involves the state of the field. It is a snap shot of the realities that are a summation of the bodies of work. In Chinese medicine, there are a priori statements of fact. These become functional ontological units in practice that are used for the purposes of a rational approach to clinical analyses.
                                        Ontogeny within the Domain
                                        Bodily Constitution
                                        This ontological perspective involves the body shape. At the level of bodily constitution, we speak of whether the individual is strong medium or weak. The models of yin and yang are often used. The basic dialectics make a division of big yang, little yang, big yin and little yin. These divisions have morphogenetic tendencies – here we are speaking of body shape. The big yang is rather strong and muscular – a large form. The tai yin is large but soft body form. The shao yang body form is medium build and muscular while the shao yin bodily form is rather small.
                                        Spiritual Constitution
                                        Spiritual Constitution involves the nature of self at the soul level. The shen describe this aspect of being. The Chinese often utilize the term jing-shen which might be considered as a body form providing a basis for consciousness. The notion of self at this level can be conceived as both plural and singular. The singular notion of shen resides in the heart and is also supported foundationally by the blood.  The pluralistic shen retain domicile within the viscera. These include the lungs for the po, which is a component of shen that experiences the senses – it is an incarnating force. Then there is the hun residing in the liver, it is an aspect of the shen that is a non-corporeal soul and represents an urge towards transcendence. The aspect of the shen residing within the kidneys is called the zhi, and it is correlated with intentionality or will. The last domicile of the shen is the spleen which provides a home for the yi. One way to translate the term yi involves a consciousness of possibilities.   
                                        Acquired Constitution
                                        This constitutional feature is acquired in the context of life style and events. It is reasonable to argue that the spiritual and bodily constitutions are part of the recursive loop that attracts events and actions that affect the status of the human in any of the dimensions of experience. As these events become fixed into the form and consciousness, they become part of the form. Reich described this process in part as character armoring.
                                        The individual in response to the collective and individual events of there life forms psychological and structural defenses. While these strategies enable survival at the moment, the individual often continues to employ them long after they are gone. In the case of addictions, even to the point of death.
                                        Constitution as a Mode
                                        Here we may speak of constitution in terms of what the Chinese call the 'six pathogens.' These include wind, damp, cold, heat, summer heat and dryness. In this scenario, we are speaking of morphogenetic tendencies that may be described as patterns that connect in terms of the descriptions used for each pathogen. For the windy person, we find an individual that is relatively changeable and easily influenced by the ecosystems where they find themselves. There may be hypersensitivity such as in the Princess and the Pea.  The damp person may exhibit heightened collection of interstitial fluids, the skin may feel damp and when this dampness affects consciousness, there can be unclear thought.
                                        Will

                                        On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Colby Hartsell <colbyhartsell@...> wrote:
                                        Dan,
                                         
                                        I think it is possible with pluralistic resourcefulness (in regards to epistemological and ontological positions) for a practitioner to gain access to levels of consciousness at play inside a patient; thus enabling a practitioner to therapeutically intervene for the purposes of mental-emotional or psycho-spiritual well being. However, it seems to me that this alchemical intention would require conscious willingness on the part of the patient. Its like being initiated in a Buddhist transmission ceremony - the receiver is aware of the intended transmission which ultimately is intended to en-lighten and transform conscious awareness. 
                                         
                                        However, in my original post I personally wasn't referring to such deep levels of interpersonal transformation engaged between client and practitioner. Personally, I lean away from playing a role I tend to view as guru-istic. In my experience I have found that it invites exactly what Lonny Jerret beats his head against, which is highly emotional, attached, neurotic clients who in L"J's case have lots of disposable income... but, perhaps your experience is/will be different... I digress in my somewhat cynically seasoned opinions...
                                         
                                        What I was referring to in the original post, is the potential to one, pragmatically draw upon the most useful perspective that most efficiently and expediently benefits a client's imbalance. This might mean I view a scenario through zang-fu concepts, or through channel pathology, or through skeletal-muscular-fascial-mechanical disorders, or as neurovascular or endogenous hormonal imbalances, etc. This might mean that, as Will walks and talks, I draw from a multitude of pulse perspectives choosing the ones applicable to the clinical situation. Two, through pluralistic resourcefulness, I might encourage a patient to re-image their dis-eased condition. This I've learned from studying Mark Seem. Perhaps one patient will benefit from perceiving their disorder through naturalistic metaphors that describe disorders in psyche and soma as imbalances between rarefied substances and metaphysical elements of earth, metal, water, wood, and fire. However, assessing another patient who is already inclined to view their experience through (lets say) new age and ethereal concepts, I might instead purposely describe their disorder using empirical-scientific concepts such as our modern biomedical perspectives.
                                         
                                        In the latter mentioned scenerio I'm "enticing a different perspective", which is what I intended to describe in my original post.
                                         
                                        c


                                        dan johnson <flyfunktionable@...> wrote:

                                        colby you wrote this:
                                         Moreover, in the clinic, if we are able to access a pluralistic resourcefulness then we are able to maneuver with in the clinical situation with greater ease and benefit - being able to meet the patient in their own biases, speak in their language, and then if necessary perhaps entice other possibilities.

                                        this is well said, 
                                        by consciously calibrating our behavior, language, and mental heuristics towards a state of confluence with our patients we gain a much deeper understanding of their state of being, as well as the personal experience of deconstructing ones own state of existence.  this is the highest level of rapport.  Like attracts like, 

                                        meeting our patients on the same playing field can lead to tremendous possibilities.  consciously allowing a willingness to understand how it is to exist as another (in this case our client), matching their behaviors, thought processes, and attitudes, large amounts of information can be revealed to myself about their condition.  from here identification of "blocks" or habitual patterns can be noted and brought to their attention.  Further more, through behavioral modeling, mirroring, and entrainment while acting at the highest level of ethical judgment and moral integrity, if i the practitioner is willing to be like the client, if the practitioner begins to alter their personal behavior, cognition, and process with the intention of breaking free from those previously acknowledged blocks or patterns modeling new existence beyond the clients normal functioning state ,  then the practitioner has facilitated a way out of those patterns, expanding state and allowing for  greater potential and flexibility.

                                        In the past year i have been studying neurolinguistical  programming presented thru the coyote teachings of the medicine wheel.  the native american medicine wheel provides a method of exploring what it is to be a human being that is capable of reflecting all potential states.  balance is derived and potential is teased out of life.  this system can be correlated with the five elemental cosmological sequence bring us back to pulse content with the application of the compass model.

                                        how about this:
                                        while using the system of spirits, shen diagnosis we are able to have a glimpse of how the individual is processing thru life.  what aspects of their shen are active, inactive, blocked, or compensating.   with this diagnostic information , the willing practitioner may enter into a state of rapport and then model out new patterns for which the clients shen may follow.  this seems to follow suit with the treatment methods using the 7 emotions.  it also appears to be in line  with  tao te ching  methods of leadership, leading while not leading.
                                        this thought just came to me,  any takers?


                                        dan


                                        Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.


                                        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.



                                        --
                                        Warmly,

                                        Will


                                        William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc
                                        http://theccrt.com/
                                        http://www.aoma.edu/
                                        http://www.pulsediagnosis.com/

                                        When individuals come together with a shared intention, in a conducive environment, something mysterious can come into being, with capacities and intelligences that far transcend those of the individuals involved.


                                        Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.



                                        --
                                        Warmly,

                                        Will


                                        William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc
                                        http://theccrt.com/
                                        http://www.aoma.edu/
                                        http://www.pulsediagnosis.com/

                                        When individuals come together with a shared intention, in a conducive environment, something mysterious can come into being, with capacities and intelligences that far transcend those of the individuals involved.
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