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Re: Herbal Formulae for Pulse Blocks

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  • ericwaltemate
    Dr. Morris, Thanks for the information. I have 4 follow up questions: 1. Will these formulae have to be constructed or are there classical formulae in
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 2, 2007
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      Dr. Morris,

      Thanks for the information. I have 4 follow up questions:

      1. Will these formulae have to be constructed or are there classical
      formulae in existence that treat these ying cycle blocks?

      2. Do you have any other formulae such as Ji Sheng Shen Qi Wan for a
      Spleen/Kidney Wei Cycle block?

      3. Since I treat out of a Chiropractic office, I see many headaches,
      TMJ, sinus, and Fibromyalgia patients. They invariably have either a
      SI/UB block, a ST/LI block, or a SJ/GB block. Does the same principle
      apply as in your previous reply? I seem to be lacking knowledge of
      herbs for regulating the qi in the SI and SJ and for supplementing the UB.

      Thanks for your help,

      Eric Waltemate D.C., L.Ac.

      --- In PulseDiagnosis@yahoogroups.com, "Will Morris" <WMorris116@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Dr Waltemate,
      >
      > Select agents that regulate the qi and or blood within an organ in order
      > to move the qi, blood and ying along the ying qi cycle that is the entry
      > exit system of Worseley and other European schools.
      >
      > Sp-Ht - any formula with spleen qi regulators such as citrus (chen pi)
      > and sussurea (mu xiang)
      > Lr-Lu - any formula with liver qi regulators such a green citrus (qing
      > pi)
      > Ki-Pc - there is only one qi regulator that enters the kidneys and that
      > is lindera (wu yao), well maybe acquilaria (chen xiang)
      >
      > Combine these with agents that supplement the channel of arrival. I.e.
      > sp-ht use ginseng, zyziphus (suan zao ren) etc. For the pericarium, use
      > agents that supplement the heart.
      >
      > Warmly,
      >
      > Will
      >
      > --- In PulseDiagnosis@yahoogroups.com, "ericwaltemate"
      > <ericwaltemate@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Dr. Morris,
      > >
      > > I have a question for you. You mentioned that a SP/HT E/E block was
      > > also a finding that the Pt needed Gui Pi Tang. Are there other
      > > indications for other formulae as well? Like a LV/LU E/E or a KI/SP
      > > Ying cycle pattern?
      > >
      > > I know that Kan Herbs Modular Formulas has forumlae that are specific
      > > for a Ke cycle imbalance such as Harmonize Heart and Kidney. But are
      > > there classical formulae such as Gui Pi Tang that also can help treat
      > > what we have been discussing?
      > >
      > > Sincerely,
      > >
      > > Eric Waltemate D.C., L.Ac.
      > >
      >
    • Will Morris
      Hi Dr. Waltemate: 1. there are classical formulas that regulate the spleen and liver qi. For the kidney to pericardium entry exit E/E, there is no classic
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 7, 2007
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        Hi Dr. Waltemate:

        1. there are classical formulas that regulate the spleen and liver qi.
        For the kidney to pericardium entry exit E/E, there is no classic
        formula that regulates kidney qi. Understand the reason for the qi not
        moving and treat that. As for the facial E/E, use agents that open
        orifices. But also Chuan Xiong Cha Tiao Wan for GB to SJ, consider
        Xiao Qing Long Tang for SI-UB channels. Consider Cang Er Zi San for
        LI-St, also consider Ge Gen Tang. For all facial E/E consider Zai Zao
        San. It is vital to consider whether there is heat or cold impeding
        the flow of qi. Any formula that regulates the surface will affect
        that region.

        2. The wei qi cycle block can be treated with any formula that
        contains agents that regulate spleen qi. The issue is understanding
        why the spleen qi is stagnant. If there is phlegm, then use Er Chen
        Tang, if there is spleen qi depletion, use Xiang Xia Liu Jun Zi Tang,
        if there is food stagnation, use Bao He Wan, if there are emotional
        causes, consider Ban Xia Hou Po San, also consider Ping Wei San for
        damp stagnation. Otheres include Mu Xiang Bing Lang Wan. Jian Pi Wan,
        Zhi Zhu Wan.

        3. Also consider the statement of fact: chronic disease causes blood
        stasis. Thus, Xue Fu Zhu Yu Tang is important for chronic conditions
        of the upper burner with concomitant signs of blood stasis.

        Warmly,

        Will

        --- In PulseDiagnosis@yahoogroups.com, "ericwaltemate"
        <ericwaltemate@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dr. Morris,
        >
        > Thanks for the information. I have 4 follow up questions:
        >
        > 1. Will these formulae have to be constructed or are there classical
        > formulae in existence that treat these ying cycle blocks?
        >
        > 2. Do you have any other formulae such as Ji Sheng Shen Qi Wan for a
        > Spleen/Kidney Wei Cycle block?
        >
        > 3. Since I treat out of a Chiropractic office, I see many headaches,
        > TMJ, sinus, and Fibromyalgia patients. They invariably have either a
        > SI/UB block, a ST/LI block, or a SJ/GB block. Does the same principle
        > apply as in your previous reply? I seem to be lacking knowledge of
        > herbs for regulating the qi in the SI and SJ and for supplementing
        the UB.
        >
        > Thanks for your help,
        >
        > Eric Waltemate D.C., L.Ac.
        >
        > --- In PulseDiagnosis@yahoogroups.com, "Will Morris" <WMorris116@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Dr Waltemate,
        > >
        > > Select agents that regulate the qi and or blood within an organ in
        order
        > > to move the qi, blood and ying along the ying qi cycle that is the
        entry
        > > exit system of Worseley and other European schools.
        > >
        > > Sp-Ht - any formula with spleen qi regulators such as citrus (chen pi)
        > > and sussurea (mu xiang)
        > > Lr-Lu - any formula with liver qi regulators such a green citrus (qing
        > > pi)
        > > Ki-Pc - there is only one qi regulator that enters the kidneys and
        that
        > > is lindera (wu yao), well maybe acquilaria (chen xiang)
        > >
        > > Combine these with agents that supplement the channel of arrival. I.e.
        > > sp-ht use ginseng, zyziphus (suan zao ren) etc. For the
        pericarium, use
        > > agents that supplement the heart.
        > >
        > > Warmly,
        > >
        > > Will
        > >
        > > --- In PulseDiagnosis@yahoogroups.com, "ericwaltemate"
        > > <ericwaltemate@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Dr. Morris,
        > > >
        > > > I have a question for you. You mentioned that a SP/HT E/E block was
        > > > also a finding that the Pt needed Gui Pi Tang. Are there other
        > > > indications for other formulae as well? Like a LV/LU E/E or a KI/SP
        > > > Ying cycle pattern?
        > > >
        > > > I know that Kan Herbs Modular Formulas has forumlae that are
        specific
        > > > for a Ke cycle imbalance such as Harmonize Heart and Kidney.
        But are
        > > > there classical formulae such as Gui Pi Tang that also can help
        treat
        > > > what we have been discussing?
        > > >
        > > > Sincerely,
        > > >
        > > > Eric Waltemate D.C., L.Ac.
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Eric Waltemate
        Dr. Morris, Thanks for your help. In this case as far as a KI/PC E/E, could you consider the PC as the Ming Men? Then, could one use aquilaria and epimedium?
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 8, 2007
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          Dr. Morris,

          Thanks for your help.  In this case as far as a KI/PC E/E, could you consider the PC as the Ming Men?  Then, could one use aquilaria and epimedium?

          Eric Waltemate D.C.,L.Ac.

          Will Morris <WMorris116@...> wrote:
          Hi Dr. Waltemate:

          1. there are classical formulas that regulate the spleen and liver qi.
          For the kidney to pericardium entry exit E/E, there is no classic
          formula that regulates kidney qi. Understand the reason for the qi not
          moving and treat that. As for the facial E/E, use agents that open
          orifices. But also Chuan Xiong Cha Tiao Wan for GB to SJ, consider
          Xiao Qing Long Tang for SI-UB channels. Consider Cang Er Zi San for
          LI-St, also consider Ge Gen Tang. For all facial E/E consider Zai Zao
          San. It is vital to consider whether there is heat or cold impeding
          the flow of qi. Any formula that regulates the surface will affect
          that region.

          2. The wei qi cycle block can be treated with any formula that
          contains agents that regulate spleen qi. The issue is understanding
          why the spleen qi is stagnant. If there is phlegm, then use Er Chen
          Tang, if there is spleen qi depletion, use Xiang Xia Liu Jun Zi Tang,
          if there is food stagnation, use Bao He Wan, if there are emotional
          causes, consider Ban Xia Hou Po San, also consider Ping Wei San for
          damp stagnation. Otheres include Mu Xiang Bing Lang Wan. Jian Pi Wan,
          Zhi Zhu Wan.

          3. Also consider the statement of fact: chronic disease causes blood
          stasis. Thus, Xue Fu Zhu Yu Tang is important for chronic conditions
          of the upper burner with concomitant signs of blood stasis.

          Warmly,

          Will

          --- In PulseDiagnosis@ yahoogroups. com, "ericwaltemate"
          <ericwaltemate@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > Dr. Morris,
          >
          > Thanks for the information. I have 4 follow up questions:
          >
          > 1. Will these formulae have to be constructed or are there classical
          > formulae in existence that treat these ying cycle blocks?
          >
          > 2. Do you have any other formulae such as Ji Sheng Shen Qi Wan for a
          > Spleen/Kidney Wei Cycle block?
          >
          > 3. Since I treat out of a Chiropractic office, I see many headaches,
          > TMJ, sinus, and Fibromyalgia patients. They invariably have either a
          > SI/UB block, a ST/LI block, or a SJ/GB block. Does the same principle
          > apply as in your previous reply? I seem to be lacking knowledge of
          > herbs for regulating the qi in the SI and SJ and for supplementing
          the UB.
          >
          > Thanks for your help,
          >
          > Eric Waltemate D.C., L.Ac.
          >
          > --- In PulseDiagnosis@ yahoogroups. com, "Will Morris" <WMorris116@ >
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Dr Waltemate,
          > >
          > > Select agents that regulate the qi and or blood within an organ in
          order
          > > to move the qi, blood and ying along the ying qi cycle that is the
          entry
          > > exit system of Worseley and other European schools.
          > >
          > > Sp-Ht - any formula with spleen qi regulators such as citrus (chen pi)
          > > and sussurea (mu xiang)
          > > Lr-Lu - any formula with liver qi regulators such a green citrus (qing
          > > pi)
          > > Ki-Pc - there is only one qi regulator that enters the kidneys and
          that
          > > is lindera (wu yao), well maybe acquilaria (chen xiang)
          > >
          > > Combine these with agents that supplement the channel of arrival. I.e.
          > > sp-ht use ginseng, zyziphus (suan zao ren) etc. For the
          pericarium, use
          > > agents that supplement the heart.
          > >
          > > Warmly,
          > >
          > > Will
          > >
          > > --- In PulseDiagnosis@ yahoogroups. com, "ericwaltemate"
          > > <ericwaltemate@ > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Dr. Morris,
          > > >
          > > > I have a question for you. You mentioned that a SP/HT E/E block was
          > > > also a finding that the Pt needed Gui Pi Tang. Are there other
          > > > indications for other formulae as well? Like a LV/LU E/E or a KI/SP
          > > > Ying cycle pattern?
          > > >
          > > > I know that Kan Herbs Modular Formulas has forumlae that are
          specific
          > > > for a Ke cycle imbalance such as Harmonize Heart and Kidney.
          But are
          > > > there classical formulae such as Gui Pi Tang that also can help
          treat
          > > > what we have been discussing?
          > > >
          > > > Sincerely,
          > > >
          > > > Eric Waltemate D.C., L.Ac.
          > > >
          > >
          >



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        • William Morris
          Good call - be sure to consider wu yao (lindera) since it is the only agent that regulates kidney qi. Will ... -- William R. Morris, DAOM President Emeritus,
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 8, 2007
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            Good call - be sure to consider wu yao (lindera) since it is the only agent that regulates kidney qi.

            Will

            On 10/8/07, Eric Waltemate < ericwaltemate@...> wrote:

            Dr. Morris,

            Thanks for your help.  In this case as far as a KI/PC E/E, could you consider the PC as the Ming Men?  Then, could one use aquilaria and epimedium?

            Eric Waltemate D.C.,L.Ac.

            Will Morris <WMorris116@...> wrote:
            Hi Dr. Waltemate:

            1. there are classical formulas that regulate the spleen and liver qi.
            For the kidney to pericardium entry exit E/E, there is no classic
            formula that regulates kidney qi. Understand the reason for the qi not
            moving and treat that. As for the facial E/E, use agents that open
            orifices. But also Chuan Xiong Cha Tiao Wan for GB to SJ, consider
            Xiao Qing Long Tang for SI-UB channels. Consider Cang Er Zi San for
            LI-St, also consider Ge Gen Tang. For all facial E/E consider Zai Zao
            San. It is vital to consider whether there is heat or cold impeding
            the flow of qi. Any formula that regulates the surface will affect
            that region.

            2. The wei qi cycle block can be treated with any formula that
            contains agents that regulate spleen qi. The issue is understanding
            why the spleen qi is stagnant. If there is phlegm, then use Er Chen
            Tang, if there is spleen qi depletion, use Xiang Xia Liu Jun Zi Tang,
            if there is food stagnation, use Bao He Wan, if there are emotional
            causes, consider Ban Xia Hou Po San, also consider Ping Wei San for
            damp stagnation. Otheres include Mu Xiang Bing Lang Wan. Jian Pi Wan,
            Zhi Zhu Wan.

            3. Also consider the statement of fact: chronic disease causes blood
            stasis. Thus, Xue Fu Zhu Yu Tang is important for chronic conditions
            of the upper burner with concomitant signs of blood stasis.

            Warmly,

            Will

            --- In PulseDiagnosis@yahoogroups.com, "ericwaltemate"
            <ericwaltemate@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dr. Morris,
            >
            > Thanks for the information. I have 4 follow up questions:
            >
            > 1. Will these formulae have to be constructed or are there classical
            > formulae in existence that treat these ying cycle blocks?
            >
            > 2. Do you have any other formulae such as Ji Sheng Shen Qi Wan for a
            > Spleen/Kidney Wei Cycle block?
            >
            > 3. Since I treat out of a Chiropractic office, I see many headaches,
            > TMJ, sinus, and Fibromyalgia patients. They invariably have either a
            > SI/UB block, a ST/LI block, or a SJ/GB block. Does the same principle
            > apply as in your previous reply? I seem to be lacking knowledge of
            > herbs for regulating the qi in the SI and SJ and for supplementing
            the UB.
            >
            > Thanks for your help,
            >
            > Eric Waltemate D.C., L.Ac.
            >
            > --- In PulseDiagnosis@yahoogroups.com , "Will Morris" <WMorris116@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Dr Waltemate,
            > >
            > > Select agents that regulate the qi and or blood within an organ in
            order
            > > to move the qi, blood and ying along the ying qi cycle that is the
            entry
            > > exit system of Worseley and other European schools.
            > >
            > > Sp-Ht - any formula with spleen qi regulators such as citrus (chen pi)
            > > and sussurea (mu xiang)
            > > Lr-Lu - any formula with liver qi regulators such a green citrus (qing
            > > pi)
            > > Ki-Pc - there is only one qi regulator that enters the kidneys and
            that
            > > is lindera (wu yao), well maybe acquilaria (chen xiang)
            > >
            > > Combine these with agents that supplement the channel of arrival. I.e.
            > > sp-ht use ginseng, zyziphus (suan zao ren) etc. For the
            pericarium, use
            > > agents that supplement the heart.
            > >
            > > Warmly,
            > >
            > > Will
            > >
            > > --- In PulseDiagnosis@yahoogroups.com, "ericwaltemate"
            > > <ericwaltemate@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Dr. Morris,
            > > >
            > > > I have a question for you. You mentioned that a SP/HT E/E block was
            > > > also a finding that the Pt needed Gui Pi Tang. Are there other
            > > > indications for other formulae as well? Like a LV/LU E/E or a KI/SP
            > > > Ying cycle pattern?
            > > >
            > > > I know that Kan Herbs Modular Formulas has forumlae that are
            specific
            > > > for a Ke cycle imbalance such as Harmonize Heart and Kidney.
            But are
            > > > there classical formulae such as Gui Pi Tang that also can help
            treat
            > > > what we have been discussing?
            > > >
            > > > Sincerely,
            > > >
            > > > Eric Waltemate D.C., L.Ac.
            > > >
            > >
            >



            Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!




            --
            William R. Morris, DAOM
            President Emeritus, AAAOM
            wmorris33@...
            http://www.aoma.edu/
            http://www.pulsediagnosis.com/
          • Eric Waltemate
            Will, I was reading a few of my books and have another question/observation UB/SI block... a TaiYang disorder? Gui Zhi Tang? Can t remember point LI/ST
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 11, 2007
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              Will,

              I was reading a few of my books and have another question/observation

              UB/SI block... a TaiYang disorder?  Gui Zhi Tang?  Can't remember point
              LI/ST Block... a YangMing disorder?  Da Chen Qi Wan?  Du 14
              SJ/GB Block... a ShaoYang disorder? Xiao Chai Hu Tang?  GB 38/39 (depends on source)

              The points come from Deadman's Book.

              Eric

              William Morris <wmorris33@...> wrote:
              Good call - be sure to consider wu yao (lindera) since it is the only agent that regulates kidney qi.

              Will

              On 10/8/07, Eric Waltemate < ericwaltemate@ yahoo.com> wrote:
              Dr. Morris,

              Thanks for your help.  In this case as far as a KI/PC E/E, could you consider the PC as the Ming Men?  Then, could one use aquilaria and epimedium?

              Eric Waltemate D.C.,L.Ac.

              Will Morris <WMorris116@AOL. COM> wrote:
              Hi Dr. Waltemate:

              1. there are classical formulas that regulate the spleen and liver qi.
              For the kidney to pericardium entry exit E/E, there is no classic
              formula that regulates kidney qi. Understand the reason for the qi not
              moving and treat that. As for the facial E/E, use agents that open
              orifices. But also Chuan Xiong Cha Tiao Wan for GB to SJ, consider
              Xiao Qing Long Tang for SI-UB channels. Consider Cang Er Zi San for
              LI-St, also consider Ge Gen Tang. For all facial E/E consider Zai Zao
              San. It is vital to consider whether there is heat or cold impeding
              the flow of qi. Any formula that regulates the surface will affect
              that region.

              2. The wei qi cycle block can be treated with any formula that
              contains agents that regulate spleen qi. The issue is understanding
              why the spleen qi is stagnant. If there is phlegm, then use Er Chen
              Tang, if there is spleen qi depletion, use Xiang Xia Liu Jun Zi Tang,
              if there is food stagnation, use Bao He Wan, if there are emotional
              causes, consider Ban Xia Hou Po San, also consider Ping Wei San for
              damp stagnation. Otheres include Mu Xiang Bing Lang Wan. Jian Pi Wan,
              Zhi Zhu Wan.

              3. Also consider the statement of fact: chronic disease causes blood
              stasis. Thus, Xue Fu Zhu Yu Tang is important for chronic conditions
              of the upper burner with concomitant signs of blood stasis.

              Warmly,

              Will

              --- In PulseDiagnosis@ yahoogroups. com, "ericwaltemate"
              <ericwaltemate@ ...> wrote:
              >
              > Dr. Morris,
              >
              > Thanks for the information. I have 4 follow up questions:
              >
              > 1. Will these formulae have to be constructed or are there classical
              > formulae in existence that treat these ying cycle blocks?
              >
              > 2. Do you have any other formulae such as Ji Sheng Shen Qi Wan for a
              > Spleen/Kidney Wei Cycle block?
              >
              > 3. Since I treat out of a Chiropractic office, I see many headaches,
              > TMJ, sinus, and Fibromyalgia patients. They invariably have either a
              > SI/UB block, a ST/LI block, or a SJ/GB block. Does the same principle
              > apply as in your previous reply? I seem to be lacking knowledge of
              > herbs for regulating the qi in the SI and SJ and for supplementing
              the UB.
              >
              > Thanks for your help,
              >
              > Eric Waltemate D.C., L.Ac.
              >
              > --- In PulseDiagnosis@ yahoogroups. com , "Will Morris" <WMorris116@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Dr Waltemate,
              > >
              > > Select agents that regulate the qi and or blood within an organ in
              order
              > > to move the qi, blood and ying along the ying qi cycle that is the
              entry
              > > exit system of Worseley and other European schools.
              > >
              > > Sp-Ht - any formula with spleen qi regulators such as citrus (chen pi)
              > > and sussurea (mu xiang)
              > > Lr-Lu - any formula with liver qi regulators such a green citrus (qing
              > > pi)
              > > Ki-Pc - there is only one qi regulator that enters the kidneys and
              that
              > > is lindera (wu yao), well maybe acquilaria (chen xiang)
              > >
              > > Combine these with agents that supplement the channel of arrival. I.e.
              > > sp-ht use ginseng, zyziphus (suan zao ren) etc. For the
              pericarium, use
              > > agents that supplement the heart.
              > >
              > > Warmly,
              > >
              > > Will
              > >
              > > --- In PulseDiagnosis@ yahoogroups. com, "ericwaltemate"
              > > <ericwaltemate@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Dr. Morris,
              > > >
              > > > I have a question for you. You mentioned that a SP/HT E/E block was
              > > > also a finding that the Pt needed Gui Pi Tang. Are there other
              > > > indications for other formulae as well? Like a LV/LU E/E or a KI/SP
              > > > Ying cycle pattern?
              > > >
              > > > I know that Kan Herbs Modular Formulas has forumlae that are
              specific
              > > > for a Ke cycle imbalance such as Harmonize Heart and Kidney.
              But are
              > > > there classical formulae such as Gui Pi Tang that also can help
              treat
              > > > what we have been discussing?
              > > >
              > > > Sincerely,
              > > >
              > > > Eric Waltemate D.C., L.Ac.
              > > >
              > >
              >



              Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!



              --
              William R. Morris, DAOM
              President Emeritus, AAAOM
              wmorris33@gmail. com
              http://www.aoma. edu/
              http://www.pulsedia gnosis.com/


              Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!

            • dan johnson
              hello everyone, last week was the first international fascia conference in boston. the link to the site is at the end of the page. many interesting
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 12, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                hello everyone,

                last week was the first international fascia conference in boston.  the link to the site is at the end of the page.  many interesting abstracts, references, and sources of inspiration.  lecture notes are available for purchase through site.




                http://www.fascia2007.com/



                enjoy,

                dan


                Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
              • dan johnson
                www.fascia2007.com sorry the initial link was spaced out. dan ... Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo!
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 13, 2007
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                  www.fascia2007.com

                  sorry the initial link was spaced out.

                  dan


                  Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
                  Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
                • Brandt Stickley
                  Thanks for mentioning this. I m just disappointed that I missed it. I noted recently that Harvard also hosts Matsumoto and Euler for their sold-out course
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 14, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks for mentioning this. I'm just disappointed
                    that I missed it. I noted recently that Harvard also
                    hosts Matsumoto and Euler for their sold-out course
                    teaching acupuncture to medical doctors.

                    Brandt



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