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Le Orme and other NF stuff

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  • chutch15
    Hi all, Just thought I d chime in... With respect to Le Orme... We had an agreement back in October regarding the 3rd slot which begins at 3:00 pm. That was
    Message 1 of 21 , Feb 1, 2002
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      Hi all,

      Just thought I'd chime in...

      With respect to Le Orme...
      We had an agreement back in October regarding the 3rd slot which
      begins at 3:00 pm. That was very clear in an email conversation in
      which Aldo seemed to have questions about everything. Nonetheless,
      the outcome of that email was that the band was "in" and we could
      announce them and send over a contract.

      Now in December, the band has recently returned from a very tough
      South American tour and they're not sure they want to fly to the
      States for a show, partially due to Sept. 11. Anyway, they have a
      band meeting and finally tell us that "yes, we will play NEARfest."
      At that poit, Rob bought them airline tickets and mailed them over.

      Then Aldo goes to the NF site for the first time even and sees Le
      Orme as the 3rd band on Sunday and sends Rob a sharp email. Rob
      nicely explained the reasoning and the fact that they have 100
      minutes of time, the fans are very anxious to see them play, and that
      it would be a great experience for the band in many ways. At that
      point, Rob gave them 48 hours to give us a firm answer. Less than 24
      hours later, an email came through (in all Italian!) basically
      saying, "we will not play unless we are the headliner." AND... on
      top of this, he claims to have NEVER gotten the contract which Rob
      express mailed in OCTOBER, tracked and signed for.

      Therefore, due to ignorance, unprofessionalism, and lack of attention
      paid to commitments, Le Orme has been dropped from the lineup and
      likely blackballed.

      Now regarding headliners...
      Le Orme was not chosen as a headliner due to the status of other
      bands. Caravan and Nektar have Gold records in the US, Le Orme does
      not. Nektar is performing also a very special reunion show. Le Orme
      also certainly wouldn't trump Steve Hackett. Again, this is really a
      moot point as they agreed to the 3-spot in October. Rob has the
      email to prove it.

      Captain: No, Echolyn is not a headliner. They are a 4-spot.

      Bob: The headliner issue really didn't bit us in the ass. Egos did.
      If Le Orme backed out of negotiations due to the headliner issue,
      then your point would be most valid. However, they agreed to the 3-
      spot a long time ago. Hell, back when I was still single. :^)

      Lastly, Gerard...
      Now that's a replacement, eh? Rob mentioned them to me as a
      possibility and I went back and spun "Ruin". Holy yambag! That CD
      is a smoker. The reshuffling of the lineup has really worked out
      too. Needless to say, we're very happy with this. We really wanted
      a great band in there, especially before tickets go on sale.

      P.S. Check out the new area map on the website.

      Over and out!

      --Chad, VPNF
      chad@...
      www.nearfest.com
    • progluvr@aol.com
      In a message dated 2/1/02 2:04:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... All I can say Chad, is WAY TO GO! Too bad for Le Orme who just missed a great chance for them
      Message 2 of 21 , Feb 1, 2002
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        In a message dated 2/1/02 2:04:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, chad@... writes:


        Lastly, Gerard...
        Now that's a replacement, eh?  Rob mentioned them to me as a
        possibility and I went back and spun "Ruin".  Holy yambag!  That CD
        is a smoker.  The reshuffling of the lineup has really worked out
        too.  Needless to say, we're very happy with this.  We really wanted
        a great band in there, especially before tickets go on sale.


        All I can say Chad, is WAY TO GO!  Too bad for Le Orme who just missed a great chance for them (but they get what they deserve) and kudos for a great replacement pick.

        Deb B.
      • eichler@epix.net
        ... But egos wouldn t have been a problem if there was no such thing as a headliner . If all the bands were treated equally, maybe Le Orme wouldn t have
        Message 3 of 21 , Feb 1, 2002
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          "chutch15" <chad@g...> wrote:

          >Bob: The headliner issue really didn't bit us in the ass.
          >Egos did.

          But "egos" wouldn't have been a problem if there was no such
          thing as a "headliner". If all the bands were treated equally,
          maybe Le Orme wouldn't have cared when they played.

          I've argued before that all the bands should be given the same
          amount of time and there shouldn't be two bands elevated above
          the rest. From a fan perspective, that seems disrespectful to
          the non-headliner bands (usually the ones I'm there to see).
          Now it looks like at least one big-name prog band sees it that
          way too.


          >If Le Orme backed out of negotiations due to the headliner
          >issue, then your point would be most valid. However, they
          >agreed to the 3-spot a long time ago.

          I'm not talking about *when* they backed out, but *why* they
          did it. I fully agree that it was inexcusable for them to
          back out after the negotiations were finalized, regardless of
          the reason. But I do at least understand their reason.

          -- Bob "Bice" Eichler

          NP: Phish, _Rift_
        • chutch15
          ... But there is and always has been and we have to work within those contexts. Even if there aren t one band is going to believe that they re better than
          Message 4 of 21 , Feb 1, 2002
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            >But "egos" wouldn't have been a problem if there was no such
            >thing as a "headliner". If all the bands were treated equally,
            >maybe Le Orme wouldn't have cared when they played.

            But there is and always has been and we have to work within those
            contexts. Even if there aren't one band is going to believe that
            they're better than another and deserve "higher billing" or a longer
            set, or preferential treatment. One of the primary definitions of
            ego is "an exaggerated sense of self-importance", or conceit. That
            will always come into play. No bands are EVER equal on any level.

            >I've argued before that all the bands should be given the same
            >amount of time and there shouldn't be two bands elevated above
            >the rest.

            This perfect world doesn't exist, Bob. Reality is here. Deal with
            it. We did, we found another great band.

            >From a fan perspective, that seems disrespectful to
            >the non-headliner bands (usually the ones I'm there to see).
            >Now it looks like at least one big-name prog band sees it that
            >way too.

            Actually, your method would be disrespectful to a bigger name band.
            You think Banco and Alaska deserve equal time? Do *most* of the
            people want more Alaska than Banco? No. And that's not a knock on
            Alaska. It's just a reality that needs to be perceived when putting
            together a lineup.

            >>If Le Orme backed out of negotiations due to the headliner
            >>issue, then your point would be most valid. However, they
            >>agreed to the 3-spot a long time ago.
            >
            >I'm not talking about *when* they backed out, but *why* they
            >did it. I fully agree that it was inexcusable for them to
            >back out after the negotiations were finalized, regardless of
            >the reason. But I do at least understand their reason.

            But you *have* to consider the circumstances here. Their reason is
            NOT valid now. It would have been valid in October, but not after
            the agreement was made, announcements were sent out, fans got their
            expectations up, and plane tickets were purchased (and mailed). Not
            to mention the lies about the contract never showing up.

            Pure ego and ignorance on their part let to this and we are very
            sorry that this happened. But, we have moved on and have found a
            great replacement and I think the ticketholders will have a great
            time without Le Orme. I know I'll sleep just fine tonight.

            --Chad, VPNF
            chad@...
            www.neafest.com
          • AllGdPple@aol.com
            In a message dated 2/1/2002 11:02:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... But you *have* to consider the circumstances here. Their reason is NOT valid now. It would
            Message 5 of 21 , Feb 2, 2002
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              In a message dated 2/1/2002 11:02:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
              chad@... writes:

              >>
              But you *have* to consider the circumstances here. Their reason is
              NOT valid now. It would have been valid in October, but not after
              the agreement was made, announcements were sent out, fans got their
              expectations up,
              >>

              and some purchased tickets based on the lineup......f

              >>
              and plane tickets were purchased (and mailed). Not
              to mention the lies about the contract never showing up.
              >>


              Bob's idea is really an impossibility....someone has to play first and
              someone has to play last. headlining has always been associated with coming
              on stage last and playing longer than anyone else.

              they can't all take the stage at once.......except for
              The 5uUToteMotorisThinkingHamsterPresent Guild.

              kenny NP: Ngio/Salew - Bpii-joom
            • biceeichler
              ... Is and always has been what? Headliners at NEARFest? The only reason that s true is because you (not you personally, but NF as a festival) have always
              Message 6 of 21 , Feb 2, 2002
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                "chutch15" <chad@g...> wrote:
                >
                > But there is and always has been and we have to work within those
                > contexts.

                Is and always has been what? Headliners at NEARFest? The only
                reason that's true is because you (not you personally, but NF
                as a festival) have always promoted things that way. There's
                nothing saying you can't do it differently. Nature does not
                demand a headliner.

                The first festival I ever went to was ProgDay '97, and I went
                because there were a couple bands I wanted to see. I had no
                idea if they were "headliners", in fact I never heard the term
                "headliner" applied to ProgDay. The lack of one or two bands
                being hailed as "headliners" didn't keep me away. Just as the
                fact that I almost always dislike the bands that are picked as
                "headliners" of NEARFest didn't keep me away from any NFs in
                the past.


                > No bands are EVER equal on any level.

                That's a load of crap.


                > This perfect world doesn't exist, Bob. Reality is here. Deal
                > with it.

                Reality is what you make it. Deal with that. Until you try the
                "not calling any band a headliner" approach, don't tell me that
                the "reality" is that it won't work. You haven't tried it, so
                you don't know.


                > We did, we found another great band.

                And I'm happy for you. I was hoping for a replacement that
                wasn't yet another symphonic band, but I'm glad that the
                majority of people like your choice.

                -- Bob "Bice" Eichler
              • nearfest
                ... No, but the vast majority of festival goers do. With an 1850 person festival, MANY will attend just on the basis of one or the other headliners. Peace Rob
                Message 7 of 21 , Feb 2, 2002
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                  >Nature does not demand a headliner.

                  No, but the vast majority of festival goers do. With an 1850 person
                  festival, MANY will attend just on the basis of one or the other
                  headliners.

                  Peace
                  Rob
                • Dutchrocker@aol.com
                  In a message dated 2/2/2002 2:14:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... I will admit that I am one of those shallow thinking people that will attend on the basis of
                  Message 8 of 21 , Feb 2, 2002
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                    In a message dated 2/2/2002 2:14:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, rlladuca@... writes:



                    No, but the vast majority of festival goers do.  With an 1850 person
                    festival, MANY will attend just on the basis of one or the other
                    headliners.


                    I will admit that I am one of those shallow thinking people that will attend on the basis of one or the other (hopefully both) of the headliners.
                    It cost my wife and I approx. $700 (not including CDs, T-shirts, etc.) to attend NF '01. Personally, I could not justify spending that kind of money if there were no headliners of the Porcupine Tree/Banco/Steve Hackett caliber.
                    Don't take me wrong here, I enjoy seeing the Enchants, Djam Karets, et al, and I also have a great time socializing with everyone, but it's the headliners that ultimately bring me (us) to NF.
                    Besides, it is a nice get away for my wife and I, and it's much more exciting for her if she is familiar with at least one of the bands...and she is familiar with Steve Hackett!!!

                    Doug DeHaan
                    NP: Steve Hackett - Box
                  • chutch15
                    ... No, any reputable show has a headliner. That wasn t my choice. Shows have been run like that forever. That is not a product of NF. We promote headliners
                    Message 9 of 21 , Feb 2, 2002
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                      >Is and always has been what? Headliners at NEARFest? The only
                      >reason that's true is because you (not you personally, but NF
                      >as a festival) have always promoted things that way. There's
                      >nothing saying you can't do it differently. Nature does not
                      >demand a headliner.

                      No, any reputable show has a headliner. That wasn't my choice.
                      Shows have been run like that forever. That is not a product of NF.
                      We promote headliners because it works.

                      >The first festival I ever went to was ProgDay '97, and I went
                      >because there were a couple bands I wanted to see. I had no
                      >idea if they were "headliners", in fact I never heard the term
                      >"headliner" applied to ProgDay

                      Then don't consider them headliners. I don't care what *you* call
                      them. That's the term that we've typically used. If you want to
                      call them Band #5, or Group Omega, or That Band at the End that I'm
                      Sure I'll Hate, then fine. No one said you had to use our term.

                      You clearly think differently than most us anyway. That's been
                      evident for quite some time.

                      >> No bands are EVER equal on any level.
                      >That's a load of crap.

                      How so? Name two bands that are exactly equal? Take five CDs out of
                      your collection. Which one do you listen to first? Why? There must
                      be *some* difference; one aspect of one of them that you like better
                      than the other. In essence, you are ranking on some basis.

                      >> This perfect world doesn't exist, Bob. Reality is here. Deal
                      >> with it.
                      >
                      >Reality is what you make it. Deal with that.

                      Is that your attempt at being deep. You may not choose to accept it,
                      but it's there. Typically, you seem to just piss on it in your
                      weekly rants. It must be rought being so bitter all the time.

                      >Until you try the "not calling any band a headliner" approach, don't
                      >tell me that the "reality" is that it won't work. You haven't tried
                      >it, so you don't know.

                      No, you can try it. We'll stick with sound business sense and
                      marketing techniques. Even if we didn't use the "headliner" term for
                      anyone in our lineup, the last band of each day will be deemed the
                      headliner by the masses. That's just how it works... Reality.

                      It's amazing when you have to defend success.
                    • stevesly@aol.com
                      ... Progday 97 had David Ragsdale (from Kansas) as it s headliner and I know for a fact that a good portion of the crowd (myself included) were there
                      Message 10 of 21 , Feb 3, 2002
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                        Bob wrote:

                        >The first festival I ever went to was ProgDay '97, and I went
                        >because there were a couple bands I wanted to see.  I had no
                        >idea if they were "headliners", in fact I never heard the term
                        >"headliner" applied to ProgDay<<

                        Progday 97 had David Ragsdale (from Kansas) as it's headliner and I know for a fact that a good portion of the crowd (myself included) were there specifically to see him.    

                        Steve Sly
                        (NP - Greenday - International Superhits)
                      • Bob Eichler
                        ... Fine, you guys are convinced that you have to call two of your bands headliners . I m still convinced that booking the big name band is enough to get
                        Message 11 of 21 , Feb 3, 2002
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                          In the last digest, "nearfest" <rlladuca@...> wrote:

                          > >Nature does not demand a headliner.
                          >
                          >No, but the vast majority of festival goers do. With an 1850 person
                          >festival, MANY will attend just on the basis of one or the other
                          >headliners.

                          Fine, you guys are convinced that you have to call two of your
                          bands "headliners". I'm still convinced that booking the big
                          name band is enough to get people to come, you don't need to
                          promote them as being better or more important than all the other
                          bands. And I'm thinking that as long as NEARFest insists on
                          having two "headliners", you're going to continue to have the
                          problem of big-name bands not wanting to play unless they can
                          be a headliner, thus limiting you to two "famous" bands per
                          year, no matter how big the audience grows.

                          -- Bob "Bice" Eichler
                        • Steve Husk
                          Bob said this:
                          Message 12 of 21 , Feb 3, 2002
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                            Bob said this:
                            <<<And I'm thinking that as long as NEARFest insists on having two "headliners", you're going to continue to have the problem of big-name bands not wanting to play unless they can be a headliner>>>

                            This would seem to be LeWho---er---LeOrme's "problem." There are many other bands out there who would gladly take the opening spot of any festival, because it gives them the opportunity to perform in front of a large audience of prog-craving fans. They may be big-name bands in the making, needing only the opportunity to prove themselves.

                            I personally pay little attention to the "headliner" issue because, more times than not, I go to a festival to see several of the bands on the bill. If Band A drops out, I've still got Band B and Band C to enjoy. And, there's always the possibility that the unknown-to-me Band D will blow my doors off. If one of my favorites just happens to be playing last, it means I'll be getting home late...and that's *all* it really means to me.

                            Perhaps, I'm missing a component, but this equation seems way too simple to work with than what this debate seems to indicate.

                            Is it an issue of questioning the business practices being used? NEARfest has been a success every year...why is what Rob and Chad are doing *not* being seen as a success?! Questioning their bueiness model absolutely blows my mind. I may not completely like their choice of bands, but those very choices are apart of that successful business model, so I don't see the need to complain.

                            Is it an issue of someone's favorite sub-genre being dissed? Hey...my favorite sub-genre has seen only one representative in three (going on four) years! Ice Age, in '99. None since. None scheduled. That "inconvenience" is solved for me because I actively seek out new sounds, regardless of what sub-genre they've been placed in. Besides...Powermad and Jaxx (a northern Virginia club) give me all the prog metal and power metal my ears require.

                            Is it an issue of someone's least favorite sub-genre received preferential treatment? The "offended" person can solve that problem by starting their own festival, thus allowing them the opportunity to grant preferential treatment to whatever bands and whatever sub-genre they want. If the "offended" person chooses not to undertake this project (for whatever reason), do they really have any business---or, credibility---in questioning and criticizing those who have?...and who, by the way, did it successfully?!

                            Success!
                            Steve!

                            Now playing: Symphony X - "V"



                            --

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                          • nearfest
                            ... What malarkey. Tony Levin and CGT are quite famous, and GLADLY agreed to go THIRD. In 2001 we had them, Banco, Porc Tree, After Crying...all famous. In
                            Message 13 of 21 , Feb 3, 2002
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                              > And I'm thinking that as long as NEARFest insists on
                              > having two "headliners", you're going to continue to have the
                              > problem of big-name bands not wanting to play unless they can
                              > be a headliner, thus limiting you to two "famous" bands per
                              > year, no matter how big the audience grows.

                              What malarkey. Tony Levin and CGT are quite famous, and GLADLY agreed
                              to go THIRD. In 2001 we had them, Banco, Porc Tree, After
                              Crying...all famous.

                              In 2002 we have Steve Hackett (VERY famous), Nektar (famous), Caravan
                              (famous)....

                              I wouldn't rationalize Le Orme's ego trip as a portent for future
                              NEARfests. If they weren't going to play unless they were
                              headliners, they should have replied to my initial invitation letter
                              that contained "you will play third or fourth" with a "we
                              respectfully decline the invitation".

                              And by the way, Ragsdale was billed as a headliner for ProgDay 1997,
                              and if I recall correctly he was by far the main reason you decided
                              to attend.

                              Peace
                              Rob
                            • chutch15
                              First of all, I didn t say we had to call them headliners. Did you even read my last post? Even if we don t, the big-name band at the end of each day will be
                              Message 14 of 21 , Feb 3, 2002
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                                First of all, I didn't say we had to call them headliners. Did you
                                even read my last post? Even if we don't, the big-name band at the
                                end of each day will be considered as such.

                                Also, we don't have a headliner "problem." Le Orme had an ego
                                problem, yes, but no other band has given us issues. Also, if we
                                book say four headliner sized bands for one fest, we need to have
                                long breaks to set them up. A band of headliner magnitude needs more
                                than 45-60 minutes for setup and changeover.

                                There are a lot of logistics that go into setting up the festival. I
                                suggest you leave that to us since your expertise lies solely in
                                criticism.


                                --- In ProgAndOther@y..., Bob Eichler <eichler@e...> wrote:
                                >
                                > In the last digest, "nearfest" <rlladuca@r...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > >Nature does not demand a headliner.
                                > >
                                > >No, but the vast majority of festival goers do. With an 1850
                                person
                                > >festival, MANY will attend just on the basis of one or the other
                                > >headliners.
                                >
                                > Fine, you guys are convinced that you have to call two of your
                                > bands "headliners". I'm still convinced that booking the big
                                > name band is enough to get people to come, you don't need to
                                > promote them as being better or more important than all the other
                                > bands. And I'm thinking that as long as NEARFest insists on
                                > having two "headliners", you're going to continue to have the
                                > problem of big-name bands not wanting to play unless they can
                                > be a headliner, thus limiting you to two "famous" bands per
                                > year, no matter how big the audience grows.
                                >
                                > -- Bob "Bice" Eichler
                              • the_original_ib
                                ... Why are you guys arguing? It seems like this is becoming overly semantic and personal. Bob has his opinion. Nobody has to agree with it unless they want
                                Message 15 of 21 , Feb 3, 2002
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                                  --- In ProgAndOther@y..., "chutch15" <chad@g...> wrote:
                                  > First of all, I didn't say we had to call them headliners.

                                  Why are you guys arguing? It seems like this is becoming overly
                                  semantic and personal. Bob has his opinion. Nobody has to agree with
                                  it unless they want to. He doesn't have to get his ass flamed off
                                  over it either.

                                  Regards,
                                  Sean
                                • AllGdPple@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 2/3/2002 4:35:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... this criticism, as Bob stated, has been going on for some time. Rob & Chad have taken it in
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Feb 3, 2002
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                                    In a message dated 2/3/2002 4:35:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, sean@... writes:


                                    Why are you guys arguing? It seems like this is becoming overly
                                    semantic and personal. Bob has his opinion. Nobody has to agree with
                                    it unless they want to. He doesn't have to get his ass flamed off
                                    over it either.


                                    this criticism, as Bob stated, has been going on for some time.  Rob & Chad have taken it in good spirits up till now........it might have been touching a nerve to bring up the same argument in the wake of recent events.......percievably  it was an "i told you so" situation even though i'm sure Bob didn't mean it quite that way.  Rob & Chad, perhaps worn to the nub on this issue don't seem to be feeling as tolerant as they are normally.

                                    you're right....probably best to put this discussion to bed.  i have a great deal of respect for all three men.....although right now the high road might seem a bit steep.

                                    kenny NP:  Roan  - 5uu's - i can only imagine how much fun it was for the band to record this album. i'm sure having a blast listening.

                                  • Bob Eichler
                                    ... Well then, I suggest you go and pimp NEARFest somewhere else, if you re unable to take a little criticism without turning into such a blowhard asshole.
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Feb 3, 2002
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                                      In the last digest, "chutch15" <chad@...> wrote:

                                      >There are a lot of logistics that go into setting up the festival. I
                                      >suggest you leave that to us since your expertise lies solely in
                                      >criticism.

                                      Well then, I suggest you go and pimp NEARFest somewhere else,
                                      if you're unable to take a little criticism without turning
                                      into such a blowhard asshole.

                                      Enjoy your festival. I wish you much success. I hope next year
                                      you sell out Wembly stadium with all symphonic bands and the
                                      world's greatest "headliners". Just don't expect me to be there.

                                      -- Bob "Bice" Eichler
                                    • biceeichler
                                      ... Ragsdale was indeed the main reason I decided to go to ProgDay 97, but NOT BECAUSE HE WAS CALLED A HEADLINER ! I don t know how I can make this point
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Feb 3, 2002
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                                        --- In ProgAndOther@y..., "nearfest" <rlladuca@r...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > And by the way, Ragsdale was billed as a headliner for ProgDay
                                        > 1997, and if I recall correctly he was by far the main reason
                                        > you decided to attend.


                                        Ragsdale was indeed the main reason I decided to go to ProgDay '97,
                                        but NOT BECAUSE HE WAS CALLED A "HEADLINER"! I don't know how I
                                        can make this point any clearer. I wanted to see him play, but
                                        I didn't know if he was going on first, last or somewhere in the
                                        middle. In fact, when I arrived in mid-afternoon and heard a
                                        violin coming from the stage, I was afraid I had missed his set
                                        (it turned out I was missing Ozone Quartet, which I'm still
                                        kicking myself for).

                                        Anyway, it didn't matter to me if he was given elevated "headliner"
                                        status or not, I went anyway. I would think that most people would
                                        go to see a band they really wanted to see, even if that band was
                                        not given elevated "headliner" status. That's the point I've been
                                        trying to make, which everyone seems to want to twist around into
                                        something else.

                                        And if he was promoted as a "headliner", I certainly never heard
                                        about it. In fact, I've rarely ever heard the word "headliner"
                                        applied to a ProgDay band. Maybe it happens, but I pay no
                                        attention to it. It's not rammed down my throat like NEARFest does.

                                        -- Bob "Bice" Eichler
                                      • Roy DeRousse
                                        ... I agree totally, Steve. I couldn t care less who is called headliner. (Actually, the headliner spot isn t always even the most desirable. I ve been to
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Feb 5, 2002
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                                          --- Steve Husk <46th@...> wrote:
                                          > I personally pay little attention to the "headliner" issue because, more
                                          > times than not, I go to a festival to see several of the bands on the bill.

                                          I agree totally, Steve. I couldn't care less who is called "headliner."
                                          (Actually, the headliner spot isn't always even the most desirable. I've been
                                          to a number of festivals where I was pretty burned out/tired by the time the
                                          headliner came on.)

                                          It is a marketing tool and is the way that almost everyone thinks about things.
                                          That's about it. No big deal to me. NF would be crazy to do things any
                                          differently.


                                          =====
                                          Roy DeRousse
                                          relayer@... (Please use this, not the yahoo.com address. Thanks!)

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                                        • Jerry Keller
                                          I agree totally, Steve. I couldn t care less who is called headliner. (Actually, the headliner spot isn t always even the most desirable. I ve been to a
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Feb 5, 2002
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                                            I agree totally, Steve.  I couldn't care less who is called "headliner."
                                            (Actually, the headliner spot isn't always even the most desirable.  I've been
                                            to a number of festivals where I was pretty burned out/tired by the time the
                                            headliner came on.) 
                                             
                                             
                                            i agree. i pulled out before the banco set last year because i was totally "musiced out". it turned out to be
                                            a bad move given the quality of their performance but i really had had enough.
                                            hell, theres alot to be said for the first slot on saturday as everyone is psyched and receptive.
                                             
                                            jerry
                                             
                                            np    mostly autumn    last bright light
                                             
                                             
                                          • vze2j6pd@verizon.net
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Feb 5, 2002
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                                              <<i agree. i pulled out before the banco set last year because i was totally
                                              "musiced out". it turned out to be
                                              a bad move given the quality of their performance but i really had had
                                              enough.
                                              hell, theres alot to be said for the first slot on saturday as everyone is
                                              psyched and receptive.>>

                                              Actually, I'm usually toast after a long night before (festivals are always sleep deprived). But geez, Spaced Out and Gerard back to back is guranteed to wake me up. Plus there are a few bands I can probably sleep through to save up for the headliners ;)

                                              --
                                              Mike Prete - Mike@...
                                              Progressive Music Reviews
                                              www.progweed.net

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