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Way off topic: Good email freeware?

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  • Bob Eichler / Michele Matthews
    ... Anybody got any recommendations for a good, free email program? I ve been using Eudora Light ver. 3 for years, but recently I ve been getting more and more
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 26, 2001
      At 12:09 PM 10/26/01 +0000, The "Prog and Other" Mailing List wrote:

      >To Unsubscribe, go to http://www.egroups.com/
      >or send email to ProgAndOther-unsubscribe@egroups.com

      Anybody got any recommendations for a good, free email program?
      I've been using Eudora Light ver. 3 for years, but recently I've
      been getting more and more spam mail messages that make it crash.
      So I upgraded to Eudora ver.5, which is still free but now shows
      advertisments. I could probably live with that, if it weren't
      for the fact that the program itself isn't as nice as ver. 3 was.
      For one thing, the little status box that pops up and shows what
      the program is doing (downloading mail, number of messages left
      to download/send, etc) used to go away on its own when all tasks
      were finished - now you have to close it manually.

      But by far the most annoying new "feature" is that, when you
      reply to something, all quoted text is proceeded by a bar "|"
      character instead of the standard ">", and THERE'S NO WAY TO
      DELETE THE DAMN BARS! If you use the backspace key, it just
      jumps back to the end of the previous line, leaving the bar in
      place. I also went through all the settings menus and searched
      the help file to see if you can change the quote character - no
      dice. It's driving me nuts.

      So I guess I'm going to have to abandon Eudora, after about six
      years of using it. Can anyone recommend an email program that
      they like, that can be downloaded off the web for free?

      -- Bob "Bice" Eichler
    • Noah Samuel Lesgold
      ... Well, I use pine myself - there is a PC version that is pretty keen, but I d guess you re wedded to a GUI. Outlook Express is the PC client I use most
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 26, 2001
        On Fri, 26 Oct 2001, Bob Eichler / Michele Matthews wrote:

        > So I guess I'm going to have to abandon Eudora, after about six
        > years of using it. Can anyone recommend an email program that
        > they like, that can be downloaded off the web for free?

        Well, I use pine myself - there is a PC version that is pretty keen, but
        I'd guess you're wedded to a GUI. Outlook Express is the PC client I use
        most often, but so many viruses and such target it that I can't really
        recommend it. Netscape Messenger has always annoyed me with its
        interface.

        Some people I know use Pegasus mailer, which is supposed to be pretty
        good. You could also visit www.tucows.com and browse their mail clients.

        --
        Noah Lesgold http://cif.rochester.edu/~nlesgold/
        nlesgold@... AIM: nlesgold ICQ: 132716231

        "There's no question but that I like a monkey, that's clear - but I don't
        know why. And I could expand that category to include mandrills, gorillas
        - you name it. I never really feel that an album is complete without a
        monkey. Not that I set out /looking/ for a monkey song - it's just
        something I realize afterwards." -- Warren Zevon
      • eichler@epix.net
        ... Hunh, now that s interesting. In Eudora, when I sent that message out, the above two lines had that undeletable bar in front of them. Now that I m
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 26, 2001
          Just a couple minutes ago, I wrote:

          >To Unsubscribe, go to http://www.egroups.com/
          >or send email to ProgAndOther-unsubscribe@egroups.com

          Hunh, now that's interesting. In Eudora, when I sent
          that message out, the above two lines had that undeletable
          bar in front of them. Now that I'm reading it from
          Yahoo's web site, it appears as regular ">" chars.
          Man, that's odd...and annoying.

          -- Bob "Bice" Eichler
        • Bob Eichler / Michele Matthews
          ... Is pine a Unix thing? I m not that big on GUI - I tend to use the keyboard instead of the mouse whenever possible, and still occasionally pop out to DOS
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 27, 2001
            In the last digest, Noah Samuel Lesgold wrote:

            >On Fri, 26 Oct 2001, Bob Eichler / Michele Matthews wrote:
            >
            > > So I guess I'm going to have to abandon Eudora, after about six
            > > years of using it. Can anyone recommend an email program that
            > > they like, that can be downloaded off the web for free?
            >
            >Well, I use pine myself - there is a PC version that is pretty keen, but
            >I'd guess you're wedded to a GUI.

            Is pine a Unix thing? I'm not that big on GUI - I tend to use the
            keyboard instead of the mouse whenever possible, and still occasionally
            pop out to DOS to do things that could be done with GUI programs. But
            I loath all things Unix - it's like the designers went out of their
            way to make it as unintuitive as possible. None of the commands are
            ever what a new user would expect them to be. And the Very Irritating
            editor is the worst piece of crap I've ever had to work with.


            >Outlook Express is the PC client I use most often, but so many viruses
            >and such target it that I can't really recommend it.

            Yeah, I wouldn't touch Outlook Express with a 10 foot poll.


            >Netscape Messenger has always annoyed me with its interface.

            Same here.


            >Some people I know use Pegasus mailer, which is supposed to be pretty
            >good.

            I was considering that one last night, but read somewhere that it
            doesn't support cut-and-paste very well? I do a lot of that with
            email, so that knocked that one out of the running.


            >You could also visit www.tucows.com and browse their mail clients.

            I tried that, but a search for email programs brought back over 200
            links, and I didn't want to slog through all that. So I figured I'd
            ask here.

            Anyway, if the bars in the new Eudora look like the usual ">" to
            everyone outside Eudora, I guess I can live with it. I'll try it
            for a while anyway.

            -- Bob "Bice" Eichler

            NP: The Strawbs, _Deep Cuts_. Picked up the vinyl at a flea market
            for a buck. Which appears to be about what it's worth.
          • Noah Samuel Lesgold
            ... Pine is the only unix mail client you can use without a manual page/book. All the available keyboard commands are listed at the bottom of the screen, and
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 27, 2001
              On Sat, 27 Oct 2001, Bob Eichler / Michele Matthews wrote:

              > Is pine a Unix thing? I'm not that big on GUI - I tend to use the
              > keyboard instead of the mouse whenever possible, and still occasionally
              > pop out to DOS to do things that could be done with GUI programs. But
              > I loath all things Unix - it's like the designers went out of their
              > way to make it as unintuitive as possible. None of the commands are
              > ever what a new user would expect them to be. And the Very Irritating
              > editor is the worst piece of crap I've ever had to work with.

              Pine is the only unix mail client you can use without a manual page/book.
              All the available keyboard commands are listed at the bottom of the
              screen, and it does have a sorta-gui, in ascii, rather than being
              command-line.

              > >Some people I know use Pegasus mailer, which is supposed to be pretty
              > >good.
              >
              > I was considering that one last night, but read somewhere that it
              > doesn't support cut-and-paste very well? I do a lot of that with
              > email, so that knocked that one out of the running.

              Dunno. I would at least give it a shot.

              --
              Noah Lesgold http://cif.rochester.edu/~nlesgold/
              nlesgold@... AIM: nlesgold ICQ: 132716231

              "I lost my power of speech today"
              --Thinking Plague, "Dead Silence"
            • Peter Abusamra
              Bob, I use Galaxy(it s not free but pretty close-$60-6 months)-no ads. Pete Galaxy Internet Services
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 27, 2001
                Bob,
                I use Galaxy(it's not free but pretty close-$60-6 months)-no ads.
                Pete
                 Galaxy Internet Services
                Bob Eichler / Michele Matthews wrote:
                Anybody got any recommendations for a good, free email program?
              • Mike Prete
                ... From: Bob Eichler / Michele Matthews ... That bar always pops up for me in Outlook when responding to an HTML e-mail. Although Outlook
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 27, 2001
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Bob Eichler / Michele Matthews" <eichler@...>

                  > Anyway, if the bars in the new Eudora look like the usual ">" to
                  > everyone outside Eudora, I guess I can live with it. I'll try it
                  > for a while anyway.

                  That bar always pops up for me in Outlook when responding to an HTML e-mail.
                  Although Outlook sucks (as it always does) and won't add ">" when I convert
                  it back to text-only.


                  np: Idiot Flesh - Fancy
                  --
                  Mike Prete - Mike@...
                  The Giant Progweed - Progressive Rock Reviews
                  www.progweed.net
                • tjhiggin@ingr.com
                  ... Design? Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I use Unix daily and like it, but the phrase designers of Unix is just too funny! ... I ve
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 29, 2001
                    Bice wrote:
                    >
                    > Is pine a Unix thing? I'm not that big on GUI - I tend to use the
                    > keyboard instead of the mouse whenever possible, and still occasionally
                    > pop out to DOS to do things that could be done with GUI programs. But
                    > I loath all things Unix - it's like the designers went out of their
                    > way to make it as unintuitive as possible. None of the commands are
                    > ever what a new user would expect them to be. And the Very Irritating
                    > editor is the worst piece of crap I've ever had to work with.

                    "Design?" Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                    I use Unix daily and like it, but the phrase "designers of Unix" is
                    just too funny!

                    Noah wrote:
                    > Pine is the only unix mail client you can use without a manual page/book.
                    > All the available keyboard commands are listed at the bottom of the
                    > screen, and it does have a sorta-gui, in ascii, rather than being
                    > command-line.

                    I've never used pine, but elm fits your description, too; it is my
                    preferred mailer.

                    Bice, if your ISP gives you access to a Unix shell account, then maybe
                    you ought to check pine & elm.

                    --
                    T.J. Higgins
                    tjhiggin@...
                    Huntsville, AL
                  • eichler@epix.net
                    ... OK, those who inflicted Unix upon the world . ;-) ... They do indeed give me a Unix account - I have to use it to do certain things to my web site. But
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 30, 2001
                      --- In ProgAndOther@y..., tjhiggin@i... wrote:
                      >
                      > "Design?" Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                      >
                      > I use Unix daily and like it, but the phrase "designers of Unix" is
                      > just too funny!

                      OK, "those who inflicted Unix upon the world". ;-)


                      > Bice, if your ISP gives you access to a Unix shell account, then
                      > maybe you ought to check pine & elm.

                      They do indeed give me a Unix account - I have to use it to do
                      certain things to my web site. But other than that, I avoid it
                      like the plague. I have a deep and lasting aversion to Unix,
                      dating all the way back to the late 80s when I had to use it for
                      a college class. The final project for the class involved writing
                      an entire operating system, from scratch, using C+ in a Unix
                      environment. I had never touched C or Unix before that, and the
                      class didn't teach either - it was assumed you already knew them.
                      Needless to say, there were a few hellish, sleepless weeks in
                      the computer lab before it was done.

                      -- Bob "Bice" Eichler

                      NP: Magma, _Theusz Hamtaahk Trilogie_
                    • Adrianne Mora
                      Okay, I really hate to add to this off-topic thread, but I must comment. ... Those who inflicted Unix on the world were writing the OS in the late 60 s/early
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 30, 2001
                        Okay, I really hate to add to this off-topic thread, but I must comment.

                        > > "Design?" Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                        > >
                        > > I use Unix daily and like it, but the phrase "designers of Unix" is
                        > > just too funny!
                        >
                        > OK, "those who inflicted Unix upon the world". ;-)

                        "Those who inflicted Unix on the world" were writing the OS in the late
                        60's/early 70's, if I remember correctly. This was before PCs, so nobody
                        had a computer on their desk running Windows. At the time, it wasn't
                        considered very hard to use, especially since the only people using
                        computers were geeks anyways. The graphical user interface hadn't even
                        been invented yet.

                        I use linux (a variant of unix) on my PC at home for pretty much
                        everything. It's nice to be able to get really good free software that
                        isn't full of ads. For example, the email program I use, KMail, is
                        probably the best client I have ever used. It is certainly better than
                        anything on windows. Yes, the interface of the OS is frustrating at
                        times, even with XWindows. However, once I was over the learning curve, I
                        decided that I didn't want to go back to Windows.*

                        Adrianne

                        * Though I really do miss my mac...
                      • eichler@epix.net
                        ... I thought it was even further back than that, but I m no expert on computer history. ... That makes it sound like it was the dark ages - when I started at
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 30, 2001
                          Adrianne Mora <bosco27@n...> wrote:

                          > Okay, I really hate to add to this off-topic thread, but I must
                          > comment.
                          >
                          > > > "Design?" Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                          > > >
                          > > > I use Unix daily and like it, but the phrase "designers of
                          > > > Unix" is just too funny!
                          > >
                          > > OK, "those who inflicted Unix upon the world". ;-)
                          >
                          > "Those who inflicted Unix on the world" were writing the OS in the
                          > late 60's/early 70's, if I remember correctly.

                          I thought it was even further back than that, but I'm no expert
                          on computer history.


                          > This was before PCs, so nobody had a computer on their desk
                          > running Windows.

                          That makes it sound like it was the dark ages - when I started at
                          my current job in 1990, Windows wasn't very widespread yet. I
                          think version 3.1 hadn't even come out.


                          > At the time, it wasn't considered very hard to use, especially
                          > since the only people using computers were geeks anyways.

                          Hmmm, I resemble that remark. Anyway, my first experiences with
                          a mainframe were with a VM system, which made a lot more sense
                          to me than Unix did. And, like most geeks of my age, my first
                          home "computer" was a Commodore 64, which I programmed the hell
                          out of. Ended up going through two of them.


                          > I use linux (a variant of unix) on my PC at home for pretty much
                          > everything. It's nice to be able to get really good free software
                          > that isn't full of ads. For example, the email program I use,
                          > KMail, is probably the best client I have ever used. It is
                          > certainly better than anything on windows. Yes, the interface of
                          > the OS is frustrating at times, even with XWindows. However, once
                          > I was over the learning curve, I decided that I didn't want to go
                          > back to Windows.*

                          I've considered using Linux a couple times - the idea of a user-
                          community supported, free operating system really appeals to me.
                          Plus, anything that flips Microsoft the bird is OK by me. But
                          I'm assuming from the name Linux that it's similar to Unix, and
                          that scared me off.

                          -- Bob "Computer geezer at 34" Eichler

                          NP: The Eagles, s/t
                        • Noah Samuel Lesgold
                          ... Ok... I m guessing that you re not actually afraid of command lines... What about unix annoys/frightens you? I ve only actually run it on my own PC
                          Message 12 of 18 , Oct 30, 2001
                            On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 eichler@... wrote:

                            > I've considered using Linux a couple times - the idea of a user-
                            > community supported, free operating system really appeals to me.
                            > Plus, anything that flips Microsoft the bird is OK by me. But
                            > I'm assuming from the name Linux that it's similar to Unix, and
                            > that scared me off.

                            Ok... I'm guessing that you're not actually afraid of command lines...
                            What about unix annoys/frightens you? I've only actually run it on my own
                            PC briefly, but I've been a user on various servers for years and found it
                            exceptionally convenient. Sure, a lot of stuff has a moderate to steep
                            learning curve, but most of those applications make up for it in powerful
                            functionality. You can use pico (pine composer) instead of vi, which
                            share's pine's semi-GUI interface. And heck, many modern distributions of
                            linux (particularly redhat) are handholding to the point that you might
                            run it for significant lengths of time without bringing up a command line
                            at all! The various xwindow managers provide handy guis.

                            This isn't necessarily evangelism - I personally run win2k and like it
                            well enough - but there's certainly nothing awful about *n*x to make you
                            fear it.

                            --
                            Noah Lesgold http://cif.rochester.edu/~nlesgold/
                            nlesgold@... AIM: nlesgold ICQ: 132716231

                            "I had a dream the crawling chaos said, 'I need for you to fill everyone
                            with lead' / He filled me up with protein, I gave the magic sign / He
                            gave me x-ray vision and now the world is mine"
                            --The Darkest of the Hillside Thickets, "Protein"
                          • eichler@epix.net
                            ... I m just a simple cave man, your Unix frightens and confuses me. ... That s what gets me - the
                            Message 13 of 18 , Oct 31, 2001
                              Noah Samuel Lesgold <nlesgold@c...> wrote:
                              > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 eichler@e... wrote:
                              >
                              > Ok... I'm guessing that you're not actually afraid of command
                              > lines...What about unix annoys/frightens you?

                              <imagine Phil Hartman as Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer>
                              I'm just a simple cave man, your Unix frightens and confuses me.
                              </Phil>


                              > I've only actually run it on my own PC briefly, but I've been a
                              > user on various servers for years and found it exceptionally
                              > convenient. Sure, a lot of stuff has a moderate to steep learning
                              > curve,

                              That's what gets me - the steep learning curve. I've worked with
                              several operating systems over the years, including a couple
                              designed for mainframes, but I've never seen one as user-unfriendly
                              as Unix. I dislike having to drag out a manual every time I want
                              to do the simplest thing, because I can't remember that, say, the
                              command for delete isn't "del" as it would be in most systems but
                              "rm" instead. It's just counter-intuitive. And don't get me
                              started on the vi editor. I know there are other Unix editors
                              available (although none seem to be available here at work), but I
                              find it easier just to FTP a file over to Windows, edit it with
                              notepad and FTP it back.

                              That being said though, there have been enough good points made
                              about Linux in this thread that I think I'll check it out when
                              I get my next home PC (hopefully in December).

                              -- Bob "Bice" Eichler, apologizing to everyone for all my
                              non-music posts lately

                              NP: Europa String Choir, _Real Promo Demo_
                            • Zero the Hero
                              ... Whoa, what s this? I thought there was that one CD... -- Jason Ellerbee - jeller@unf.edu DREAMS WIDE AWAKE radio show -
                              Message 14 of 18 , Oct 31, 2001
                                On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 eichler@... wrote:

                                > NP: Europa String Choir, _Real Promo Demo_

                                Whoa, what's this? I thought there was that one CD...

                                --
                                Jason Ellerbee - jeller@...
                                DREAMS WIDE AWAKE radio show - http://www.unf.edu/~jeller/dreams.html
                              • Adam Levin
                                ... There s 3 - 4 if you consider the 2 different versions (self-produced and DGM versions) of _Starving Moon_. RPD was a self-produced tour promo CD from the
                                Message 15 of 18 , Oct 31, 2001
                                  On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Zero the Hero wrote:

                                  > On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 eichler@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > NP: Europa String Choir, _Real Promo Demo_
                                  >
                                  > Whoa, what's this? I thought there was that one CD...

                                  There's 3 - 4 if you consider the 2 different versions (self-produced and
                                  DGM versions) of _Starving Moon_. RPD was a self-produced tour promo CD
                                  from the US tour a couple of years ago. _Lemon Crash_ was released in
                                  2000.

                                  -Adam

                                  ----
                                  T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t
                                  http://www.darkaether.net/
                                  http://mp3.com/darkaether/
                                • Adam Levin
                                  ... That should have read for the US tour -Adam ... T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.darkaether.net/ http://mp3.com/darkaether/
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Oct 31, 2001
                                    On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Adam Levin wrote:

                                    > On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Zero the Hero wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 eichler@... wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > NP: Europa String Choir, _Real Promo Demo_
                                    > >
                                    > > Whoa, what's this? I thought there was that one CD...
                                    >
                                    > There's 3 - 4 if you consider the 2 different versions (self-produced and
                                    > DGM versions) of _Starving Moon_. RPD was a self-produced tour promo CD
                                    > from the US tour a couple of years ago. _Lemon Crash_ was released in
                                    > 2000.

                                    That should have read "for the US tour"

                                    -Adam

                                    ----
                                    T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t
                                    http://www.darkaether.net/
                                    http://mp3.com/darkaether/
                                  • eichler@epix.net
                                    ... It s what they were selling when I saw them play at Orion. ... Does _Lemon Crash_ contain the tracks that are on _Real Promo Demo_? I was under the
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Oct 31, 2001
                                      Adam Levin <alevin@d...> wrote:
                                      > On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Zero the Hero wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 eichler@e... wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > > NP: Europa String Choir, _Real Promo Demo_
                                      > >
                                      > > Whoa, what's this? I thought there was that one CD...

                                      It's what they were selling when I saw them play at Orion.


                                      > There's 3 - 4 if you consider the 2 different versions (self-
                                      > produced and DGM versions) of _Starving Moon_. RPD was a self-
                                      > produced tour promo CD for the US tour a couple of years ago.
                                      > _Lemon Crash_ was released in 2000.

                                      Does _Lemon Crash_ contain the tracks that are on _Real Promo
                                      Demo_? I was under the impression that since their next album
                                      wasn't finished yet, they just printed up CDRs of what they
                                      had done so far and sold it at shows as _RPD_.

                                      If anyone's curious, the tracks on Real Promo Demo are:

                                      1. Hot Metal (3:03)
                                      2. East Street Poets (3:00)
                                      3. Improv - Marching Ants (2:26)
                                      4. City of Rome (4:14)
                                      5. St. Francis Waltz (2:54)
                                      6. Impov - Chains (2:23)
                                      7. Woodentops Two (1:51)
                                      8. Ten Years (2:41)

                                      -- Bob "Bice" Eichler
                                    • Adam Levin
                                      ... The non-improv pieces wound up on _Lemon Crash_, but I believe they are different recordings. -Adam ... T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Oct 31, 2001
                                        On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 eichler@... wrote:

                                        > Does _Lemon Crash_ contain the tracks that are on _Real Promo
                                        > Demo_? I was under the impression that since their next album
                                        > wasn't finished yet, they just printed up CDRs of what they
                                        > had done so far and sold it at shows as _RPD_.

                                        The non-improv pieces wound up on _Lemon Crash_, but I believe they are
                                        different recordings.

                                        -Adam

                                        ----
                                        T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t
                                        http://www.darkaether.net/
                                        http://mp3.com/darkaether/
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